Originally posted by pepsi78
what i really ment was:
you say it's a lie and i have no way of knowing if it's a lie, if i will find it to be a lie i will have the same opinion has you if not i will
sustain my opinion that i curently have.
I'll agree with you on that one. That's why I posted the information, so maybe you'll get some answers to your questions. As I said in the
earlier post, yes there are secrets in Freemasonry, but what you're trying to find out is NOT a secret.
We're NOT evil. We DON'T worship Satan. What can we do to make you believe that? I'd love for you to know the truth.
I dont need anybody senrak to convince me, when i make up my mind i make it on my own decision and not with any influence.
Can you not be influenced by the truth? That would seem logical to me.
And i really think of it before i take a decision.
That's good. That's the way it SHOULD be. So THINK about this. You're claiming many things about Masonry but you have nothing but your own
emotions to base it on. You say it's a religion, but you've yet to PROVE it's a religion...you just SAY so. I can say the moon's made of green
cheese but that doesn't make it so.
Senrak the only reason that i didint post was because i didint want to.
And i got alot to post if i really wanted.
err...that's fine with me. I'm not stopping you.
I just wanted a opinion maybe on how you people think and not on the other matter not that i dont belive it has i told you i have a opinion.
"you people" is that the evil, devil-worshipping Masons or is it just "us guys"?
So....in previous posts you mentioned the Eye & the Pyramid as proof Masonry is a religion.
With permission from the author, S. Brent Morris, Ph.D. of Washington D.C., I'm posting a bit of information here that I think
Sorry for the long post, but this pertains to the subject matter at hand.
From the Short Talk Bulletin of the Masonic Service Association of the United States
The Eye in the Pyramid
By: S. Brent Morris, P.M.
HISTORIANS must be cautious about many well-known "facts." George Washington chopped down a cherry tree when a boy and confessed the deed to his
father. Abner Doubleday invented the game of baseball. Freemasons inserted some of their emblems (chief among them the eye in the pyramid) into the
reverse of the Great Seal of the United States. These historical "facts" are widely popular, commonly accepted, and equally false.
The eye in the pyramid (emblazoned on the dollar bill, no less) is often cited as "evidence" that sinister conspiracies abound which will impose a
"New World Order" on an unsuspecting populace. Depending on whom you hear it from, the Masons are planning the takeover themselves, or are working
in concert with European bankers, or are leading (or perhaps being led by) the Illuminati (whoever they are). The notion of a world-wide Masonic
conspiracy would be laughable, if it weren't being repeated with such earnest gullibility by conspiracists like Pat Robertson.
Sadly, Masons are sometimes counted among the gullible who repeat the tall tale of the eye in the pyramid, often with a touch of pride. They may be
guilty of nothing worse than innocently puffing the importance of their fraternity (as well as themselves), but they're guilty nonetheless. The time
has come to state the truth plainly and simply!
The Great Seal of the United States is not a Masonic emblem, nor does it contain hidden Masonic symbols.
The details are there for anyone to check, who's willing to rely on historical fact, rather than hysterical fiction.
Benjamin Franklin was the only Mason on the first design committee, and his suggestions had no Masonic content.
None of the final designers of the seal were Masons.
The interpretation of the eye on the seal is subtly different from the interpretation used by Masons.
The eye in the pyramid is not nor has it ever been a Masonic symbol.
The First Committee
On Independence Day, 1776 a committee was created to design a seal for the new American nation. The committee's members were Benjamin Franklin,
Thomas Jefferson, and John Adams, with Pierre Du Simitiere as artist and consultant. Of the four men involved, only Benjamin Franklin was a Mason,
and he contributed nothing of a Masonic nature to the committee's proposed design for a seal.
Du Simitiere, the committee's consultant and a non-Mason, contributed several major design features that made their way into the ultimate design of
the seal: 'the shield, E Pluribus Unum, MDCCLXXVI, and the eye of providence in a triangle." The eye of providence on the seal thus can be
traced, not to the Masons, but to a non-Mason consultant to the committee.
"The single eye was a well-established artistic convention for an 'omniscient Ubiquitous Deity' in the medallic art of the Renaissance. Du
Simitiere, who suggested using the symbol, collected art books and was familiar with the artistic and ornamental devices used in Renaissance art."
This was the same cultural iconography that eventually led Masons to add the all-seeing eye to their symbols.
The Second and Third Committees
Congress declined the first committees suggestions as well as those of its 1780 committee. Francis Hopkinson, consultant to the second committee, had
several ideas that eventually made it into the seal: "white and red stripes with- in a blue background for the shield, a radiant constellation of
thirteen stars, and an olive branch." Hopkinson's greatest contribution to the current seal came from his layout of a 1778 50-dollar colonial
note in which he used an unfinished pyramid in the design. The third and last seal committee of 1782 produced a design that finally satisfied
Congress. Charles Thomson, Secretary of Congress, and William Barton, artist and consultant, borrowed from earlier designs and sketched what at length
became the United States Seal.
The misinterpretation of the seal as a Masonic emblem may have been first introduced a century later in 1884. Harvard Professor Eliot Norton wrote
that the reverse was 'practically incapable of effective treatment; it can hardly, (however artistically treated by the designer), look otherwise
than as a dull emblem of a Masonic fraternity.
Interpreting the Symbol
The "Remarks and Explanations" of Thomson and Barton are the only explanation of the symbols' meaning. Despite what anti-Masons may believe,
there's no reason to doubt the interpretation accepted by the Congress.
The Pyramid signified Strength and Duration: The Eye over it & the Motto allude to the many signal interpositions of providence in favor of the
The committees and consultants who designed the great Seal of the United States contained only one Mason, Benjamin Franklin. The only possibly Masonic
design element among the very many on the seal is the eye of providence, and the interpretation of it by the designers is different from that used by
Masons. The eye on the seal represents an active intervention of God in the affairs of men, while the Masonic symbol stands for a passive awareness by
God of the activities of men.
The first "official" use and definition of the all-seeing eye as a Masonic symbol seems to have come in 1797 with The Freemasons Monitor of Thomas
Smith Webb -- 14 years after Congress adopted the design for the seal. Here's how Webb explains the symbol.
"[A]nd although our thoughts, words and actions, may be hidden from the eyes of man, yet that All-Seeing Eye, whom the Sun, Moon and Stars obey, and
under whose watchful care even comets perform their stupendous revolutions, pervades the inmost recesses of the human heart, will reward us according
to our merits."
The Eye in the Pyramid
Besides the subtly different interpretations of the symbol, it is notable that Webb did not describe the eye as being in a triangle. Jeremy Ladd Cross
published The True Masonic Chart or Hieroglyphic Monitor in 1819, essentially an illustrated version of Webb's Monitor. In this first "official"
depiction of Webb's symbol, Cross had illustrator Amos Doolittle depict the eye surrounded by a semicircular glory.
The all-seeing eye thus appears to be a rather recent addition to Masonic symbolism. It is not found in any of the Gothic Constitutions, written from
about 1390 to 1730. The eye -- sometimes in a triangle, sometimes in clouds, but nearly always surrounded by a glory -- was a popular Masonic
decorative device in the latter half of the 18th century. Its use as a design element seems to have been an artistic representation of the omniscience
of God, rather than some generally accepted Masonic symbol.
Its meaning in all cases, however, was that commonly given it by society at large -- a reminder of the constant presence of God. For example, in 1614
the frontispiece of The History of the World by Walter Raleigh showed an eye in a cloud labeled "Providentia" overlooking a globe. It has not been
suggested that Raleigh's story is a Masonic document despite the use of the all-seeing eye.
The eye of Providence was part of the common cultural iconography of the 17th and 18th centuries. When placed in a triangle, the eye went beyond a
general representation of God to a strongly Trinitarian statement. It was during this period that Masonic ritual and symbolism evolved; and it is not
surprising that many symbols common to and understood by the general society made their way into Masonic ceremonies. Masons may have preferred the
triangle because of the frequent use of the number 3 in their ceremonies: three degrees, three original grand masters, three principal officers, and
so on. Eventually the all-seeing eye came to be used officially by Masons as a symbol for God, but this happened towards the end of the eighteenth
century, after congress had adopted the seal.
A pyramid, whether incomplete or finished, however, has never been a Masonic symbol. It has no generally accepted symbolic meaning, except perhaps
permanence or mystery. The combining of the eye of providence overlooking an unfinished pyramid is a uniquely American, not Masonic, icon, and must be
interpreted as its designers intended. It has no Masonic context.
It's hard to know what leads some to see Masonic conspiracies behind world events, but once that hypothesis is accepted, any jot and tittle can be
misinterpreted as "evidence." The Great Seal of the United States is a classic example of such a misinterpretation, and some Masons are as guilty of
the exaggeration as many anti-Masons.
The Great Seal and Masonic symbolism grew out of the same cultural milieu. While the all-seeing eye had been popularized in Masonic designs of the
late eighteenth century, it did not achieve any sort of official recognition until Webb's 1797 Monitor. Whatever status the symbol may have had
during the design of the Great Seal, it was not adopted or approved or endorsed by any Grand Lodge.
The seal's Eye of Providence and the Mason's All Seeing Eye each express Divine Omnipotence, but they are parallel uses of a shared icon, not a
 Robert Hieronimus, America's Secret Destiny (Rochester, Vt.: Destiny Books, 1989), p. 48.
 Patterson and Dougall in Hieronimus, p. 48.
 Hieronimus, p. 81.
 Hieronimus, p. 51.
 Hieronimus, p. 57.
 C. Thomas and W. Barton in Hieronimus, p. 54.
 Thomas Smith Webb, The Freemasons Monitor or Illustrations of Masonry (Salem, Mass.: Cushing and Appleton, 1821), p. 66.
 Jeremy Ladd Cross, The True Masonic Chart or Hieroglyphic Monitor, 3rd ed. (New Haven, Conn.: By the Author, 1824), plate 22.
Cross, Jeremy Ladd. The True Masonic Chart or Hieroglyphic Monitor, 3rd ed. New Haven, Conn.: By the Author, 1824.
Hieronimus, Robert. America's Secret Destiny. Rochester, Vt.: Destiny Books, 1989.
Webb, Thomas Smith. The Freemasons Monitor or Illustrations of Masonry. Salem, Mass.: Cushing and Appleton, 1821.
[edit for grammar]
[edit on 29-10-2005 by senrak]