Breixt: Another week of crazy political drama

originally posted by: oldcarpy

originally posted by: ScepticScot
I know you agreed with UKtruth whose posting history suggest a fairly literal interpretation of the word traitor.

Things would would be a lot better round here if we all recognised its possible to have a different viewpoint without there being some nefarious motive.

Where on Earth do you get such a ludicrous generalisation from?

i have specifically said that those MP's blocking the democratically expressed will of the people and selling us out to the EU are traitors.

Can I not have this opinion that these MP's have nefarious motives because you don't agree with me? Bit of a double standard there.

Of course you can have whatever opinion you want.

I would suggest that calling people traitors because they don't share your view is a fairly stupid opinion but you are still entitled to it.

a reply to: ScepticScot

But I am calling them traitors not because I don't share their views, of course, but because of what they are actually doing.

I had thought I had made that quite clear, apparently not.

By the way, calling me "stupid" for having a different opinion to you does not sit very well with what you have previously said on here and is frankly patronising.

originally posted by: oldcarpy
a reply to: ScepticScot

But I am calling them traitors not because I don't share their views, of course, but because of what they are actually doing.

I had thought I had made that quite clear, apparently not.

By the way, calling me "stupid" for having a different opinion to you does not sit very well with what you have previously said on here and is frankly patronising.

Not calling you stupid, saying it's a stupid opinion. Subtle but important difference.

Since your view on treasonous activity seems to be based on them not doing what you want I fail to see the distinction.

Possibly they just think leaving the EU without a deal would be extremely harmful to the UK and they are actually ( for once) doing their job properly

a reply to: ScepticScot

I have set out exactly why I think their actions amount to treason and despite what you keep stating it's not just because I disagree with their views.

Their "job" is to respect the vote to leave despite their own views. The Sebel Scum, in their party's manifesto, pledged to do that.

It is not for the few to decide the fate of the many.

a reply to: ScepticScot

Not calling you stupid, saying it's a stupid opinion. Subtle but important difference.

I am struggling to see much of a difference.

originally posted by: oldcarpy
a reply to: ScepticScot

It is not for the few to decide the fate of the many.

Except that's how a parliamentary democracy works.

Tories were pushing for an early election scared that young people will register to vote.
Young people that aren't infected by rupert murdoch, the owners of the Ritz Hotel or the barclay brothers.
Must be a cold winter coming if they're scared of losing the old brainwashed types.

Now we just need to reprogram the working class before the next election, moog has no interest in the blue collar worker and Diane Abbott isn't the elite, that people believe the opposite shows how easily engineered the population can be via the media.

a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

I don’t condone violence however in this situation I think it’s time the British people made a stand by whatever means necessary because quite frankly democracy has been well and truly done away with in this country. I am absolutely sick and tired of this Parliament... We voted to leave so let us F***ing leave!!! Forget your ‘deals’ and whatever other rubbish, we WANT OUT!

Also OSOTC please don’t pretend your not loving every second of this, you are a staunch remainer!

originally posted by: oldcarpy
a reply to: Phage

I'm a lawyer and sometimes I find it a bit alien too!

I'm not a lawyer but had to study Public Administration and Affairs laws from Parish council to the EU and all constitutional law in between for Political Journalism qualifications.

Despite a wardrobe of books on this subject (each 1000- 2000 pages long) - I'm completely lost in recent weeks of Brexit, everything is moving far too fast and their seem to be a few situations that have set constitutional and political precedents. I can't remember a time when Parliament and politics has been in so much disarray or a bigger constitutional, trade, bureaucratic change in history.

While I do understand Boris' reasoning over refusing to revealing his Eu-Deal plan to the public or politicians when he comes up with it, I was under the impression it was illegal and had to be agreed by at least the government if not Parliament before it could be presented to Brussels.

originally posted by: oldcarpy
a reply to: Phage

I'm a lawyer and sometimes I find it a bit alien too!

I'm not a lawyer but had to study Public Administration and Affairs laws from Parish council to the EU and all constitutional law in between for Political Journalism qualifications.

Despite a wardrobe of books on this subject (each 1000- 2000 pages long) - I'm completely lost in recent weeks of Brexit, everything is moving far too fast and their seem to be a few situations that have set constitutional and political precedents. I can't remember a time when Parliament and politics has been in so much disarray or a bigger constitutional, trade, bureaucratic change in history.

While I do understand Boris' reasoning over refusing to revealing his Eu-Deal plan to the public or politicians when he comes up with it, I was under the impression it was illegal and had to be agreed by at least the government if not Parliament before it could be presented to Brussels.

a reply to: bastion

No because by its very objective it is changeable. Therefore plans don't need to be revealed but the deal itself then does have to be presented to Parliament - as that is the bit that Parliament votes on.

Not well explained but a.) It's Friday afternoon and b.) I'm sure you get the gist!

a reply to: Flavian

Cheers, clears it up perfectly. I've not been following recent events closely as they change so fast and was wrongly under the impression it was the eventual deal Boris didn't want Parliament to see or vote on.

originally posted by: oldcarpy
a reply to: ScepticScot

I have set out exactly why I think their actions amount to treason and despite what you keep stating it's not just because I disagree with their views.

Their "job" is to respect the vote to leave despite their own views. The Sebel Scum, in their party's manifesto, pledged to do that.

It is not for the few to decide the fate of the many.

Actually not at all. Their job is to do what they think best and be prepared to argue their case at the next election

Besides which we have had no public vote on a no deal brexit. Arguing for a deal is no more or less respecting the public vote than arguing for no deal.

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: oldcarpy
a reply to: ScepticScot

I have set out exactly why I think their actions amount to treason and despite what you keep stating it's not just because I disagree with their views.

Their "job" is to respect the vote to leave despite their own views. The Sebel Scum, in their party's manifesto, pledged to do that.

It is not for the few to decide the fate of the many.

Actually not at all. Their job is to do what they think best and be prepared to argue their case at the next election

Besides which we have had no public vote on a no deal brexit. Arguing for a deal is no more or less respecting the public vote than arguing for no deal.

Are any U.K. citizens protesting this nonsense?

originally posted by: InTheLight

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: oldcarpy
a reply to: ScepticScot

I have set out exactly why I think their actions amount to treason and despite what you keep stating it's not just because I disagree with their views.

Their "job" is to respect the vote to leave despite their own views. The Sebel Scum, in their party's manifesto, pledged to do that.

It is not for the few to decide the fate of the many.

Actually not at all. Their job is to do what they think best and be prepared to argue their case at the next election

Besides which we have had no public vote on a no deal brexit. Arguing for a deal is no more or less respecting the public vote than arguing for no deal.

Are any U.K. citizens protesting this nonsense?

Yes but not a lot of agreement which bit is nonsense.

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: oldcarpy
a reply to: ScepticScot

I have set out exactly why I think their actions amount to treason and despite what you keep stating it's not just because I disagree with their views.

Their "job" is to respect the vote to leave despite their own views. The Sebel Scum, in their party's manifesto, pledged to do that.

It is not for the few to decide the fate of the many.

Besides which we have had no public vote on a no deal brexit.

We voted to leave.
If you feel we must vote on every option for leaving then why is it you are not critical of no-deal being made illegal..? After all, we've not voted on it. Who gave Parliament the mandate to take no deal off the table? Or is your argument that we somehow have to vote for a no deal (in addition to voting to leave) whilst it's ok to not vote on removing the option for no deal?

For those still banging on about brexit being a right wing coup.
mobile.twitter.com...

Meet Eddie Dempsey, RMT Union. Top bloke who says it like it is.

I don’t condone violence however in this situation I think it’s time the British people made a stand by whatever means necessary because quite frankly democracy has been well and truly done away with in this country. I am absolutely sick and tired of this Parliament... We voted to leave so let us F***ing leave!!! Forget your ‘deals’ and whatever other rubbish, we WANT OUT!

Ok, You go first then Mr Revolutionary. No?. Didn't think so.

Btw, When you say you want out, what exactly is it you think you will gain from leaving. ?

originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: oldcarpy
a reply to: ScepticScot

I have set out exactly why I think their actions amount to treason and despite what you keep stating it's not just because I disagree with their views.

Their "job" is to respect the vote to leave despite their own views. The Sebel Scum, in their party's manifesto, pledged to do that.

It is not for the few to decide the fate of the many.

Besides which we have had no public vote on a no deal brexit.

We voted to leave.
If you feel we must vote on every option for leaving then why is it you are not critical of no-deal being made illegal..? After all, we've not voted on it. Who gave Parliament the mandate to take no deal off the table? Or is your argument that we somehow have to vote for a no deal (in addition to voting to leave) whilst it's ok to not vote on removing the option for no deal?

I don't think we need to vote on every option.

I think in the absence of a vote it's parliaments job to decide.