U.S. Government is Shutting Down at Midnight

a reply to: DBCowboy

Last time the Gooberment shut down it did effect Forestry service services and natinal parks. State parks are not effected. Edit to add just read national parks will be free and open.

originally posted by: hillbilly4rent
a reply to: DBCowboy

Last time the Gooberment shut down it did effect Forestry service services and natinal parks. State parks are not effected.

The last time it happened, the Obama administration wanted it to hurt so they forced issues, made things as painful as they could.

a reply to: DBCowboy

I had to edit my last reply, I had been out of the loop on the shutdown. So looks like it's geared more twords pissing actual government employees off more than the average citizen. Now that's winning 👍

Bottom line for me-I don't care.

So my understanding is that this is the first time a government shut down has happened with one party is in power of both houses.

I do agree that both parties and the POTUS are to blame for this but I think untimely it comes down to a clash over Trumps frankly stupid policies such as building his stupid big wall and his ultra-hardline on immigration. I think he has pushed the Dems and members of his own party too hard and this is the result.

Sure these shutdowns have happened before but I think this time its as a result of the Trump presidency, its the house pushing back against him.

I think this could be a massive opportunity for Trump, lets face it, his wall is a bit of a pipe-dream, so I think he could turn this into a win for his presidency if he spins it the right way. He drops his wall, and then tells his base he had to do it because not even his own party were willing to take a hard enough stance on the boarder problem, he tells them that he done everything he could but in the end the Dems and disloyal republicans essentially blackmailed him with the government shut down. Then he could say he could not sit back and allow that to happen so he was forced to concede the southern boarder its in the best interests of the country because of what the evil left and disloyal republicans have done.

Could be a win, win for him.

Time will tell.

a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

So having a strong border security is considered stupid?

a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

Republicans do not have full control of the U.S. Senate.

They do have Committee control because that takes a simple 50%+1 majority.

60% is the magic number for many laws to pass.

Historically, that is a rare event.

The MSM has most people completely hoodwinked.

a reply to: xuenchen

They dont?

Better tell these folks.

ballotpedia.org...

originally posted by: Sillyolme
a reply to: xuenchen

They dont?

Better tell these folks.

ballotpedia.org...

Republicans do not have 60%.

Still don't understand how the Senate works?

The House is different.

The MSM and the Academic factions have you hoodwinked too !

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

So having a strong border security is considered stupid?

No I am not saying having a strong border is stupid, I am saying pretending that you are going to just build a massive wall is stupid.

The wall was always just a populist policy.

What I am saying is that he could take it turn it on its head and say we can't have the wall because the Dems and disloyal republicans were holding the nation hostage over it and I had not choice but to concede the wall in the interests of the nation.

Its a win win for trump.

He drops his wall (which is a pretty dumb idea anyway), he can blame it all on the Dems and disloyal republicans then he gets to claim that he was the guy who saved the nation form a perpetual shutdown because he took the high ground.

Thats how I think he should spin it.

a reply to: Vector99

Oh let's pretend that we've never interacted before and I've never seen any of your posts which all support trump. Okay if that's the rules you want to play by. you didn't support him in this tbread... Shaking my head.

And I'm pretty sure you don't have a clue what ignorant means either.

AS a former Federal employee with the USPS. During government shutdowns in the past as federal employees delivering the mail we were told to report the work as if a normal day, sort the mainland deliver it. From memory senior management for the most part did not show up at work. From memory some NOT all of the credit card used to purchase gasoline for the LLV stopped working. It was unclear as to why sone cards worked and others did not. There were gas stations that refused to honor USPS credit cards. Some continued to refuse deal the USPS.

I believe in Maryland and in Westminster in Carroll County the county had maintenance shop that Police and other county and state agency where able to use Carroll county resource.

AS a side note Carroll County continued to deny USPS services in which by law as we wee told they should have. They had large car wash to hosing down larger vehicles. During my 13 years were denied use of the county car wash. Our postmaster told numerous time that carroll county requested got money from the federal government. Each year they took those funds. After denying our PO use the federal government would demand that fund be returned.

I have known individuals who had worked for the IRS. One group are federal employee who may or may not receive federal benefits. The others were hired as temp an outside employment agency.

I had freind who worked as federal employee in the forest/park service. They were ordered to work during past government shutdowns.

I had a trial with Merit System Protection Board as few years ago during Obama area shutdown. The Judge shutdown the trial one day in advance. Her clerks and other support staff were order to work without pay. I had numerous dealing with her clerk and other support staff on submitting various paperwork and other arrangements. the trial was to resume in a real work court house it was rescheduled to held over the telephone were I could be cut off. That how the trial end.

Depending on Trump your mail may or may not be delivered. I believe Obama ordered that mail be delivered adn OTHER government function continued to function without pay.

a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

Everyone is focused on the wall.

But did you know that part of that "wall deal" is the funding to hire more border security, more funding for surveillance?

If you don't want a strong border security, just say so.

But to use "the wall" as a topic to ignore everything else, well. . . . it's rather retarded.

a reply to: DBCowboy

Means nothing to me am from the UK, our boarder consists of a tunnel and a few fields in Ireland.

I don't know if am being clear in what I am saying.

I am saying that Trump has a opportunity hear to spin this, he can drop his wall, claim its the Dems and disloyal republicans fault to his base, then tell the entire country he saved them from weeks of shut down by being the bigger man.

I do not agree with is wall (I know its more than just a wall...) however that does not matter, what does matter however is that politically he is really going to struggle to get it, its going to be a big sticking point for his presidency. This way he gets to give it up, saving himself a lot of hassle and at the same time blaming it on everyone else other than himself.

He comes out of this well.

I think that is what he should do, now if you disagree with that view, thats fine. I am only trying to articulate how I think Trump could handle this in a way that does the least amount of damage to him.

This all boils down to one simple fact:


The Dems inserted a non-fiscal policy into the debate and held the rest of the country hostage for non-citizens.

Period.


I was just reading a mother-flipping Yahoo! article which claimed it was a very risky move for the Dems.

Yahoo! wrote that.


Dems are screwed.

originally posted by: Deetermined

originally posted by: NightFlight

originally posted by: JinMI
Does this mean I don't have to pay income taxes for the time they are not in service to the country?

Yure forgetting that the IRS and the Federal Reserve are not US government agencies.

I'm sure that someone has corrected you on this by now, but you do realize that the Internal Revenue Services's website ends in ".gov" ??!!

So does the Federal Reserve. Neither are recognized by the Office of Budget and Management as bona-fide agencies.

originally posted by: TheRedneck
Well, it's kind of obvious what the goal was. DACA is not close to expiring, and both parties say they want it codified and have been meeting to iron out the details. That was the only stumbling block the Democrats objected to: DACA was not included in the budget, because it has nothing to do with the budget.

So, let's do a little comparison, shall we? Democrats can now say

"We stood up to the Republicans and they shut the government down! They're racist, xenophobic, sexist, homophobic bigots who want to have everything their way!"

And then the Republicans can say

"We included every single spending measure the Democrats wanted, and they used Senate rules to not even allow us to vote on the bill to keep the government open. Thanks to them, needy children have lost their health care, our soldiers are not getting paid, and Federal workers are being laid off! And all because they didn't want to openly address a way to help the Dreamers."

Yeah, that's going to go over like a lead balloon for Schumer, especially since Trump has already coined the term "Schumer Shutdown." That one will stick as hard as "Crooked Hillary."

My Dad, rest his soul, used to say, "When you find yourself in a hole, stop digging." Someone needs to tell the Senate Democrats that. As of right now, less than a year before their highly-anticipated 2018 midterms, we have the following:

• A booming economy, with ever-increasing good news for everyone, especially minorities.
  
• Lower taxes which will become apparent even to the skeptics next month.
  
• A rapidly expanding job market and record low unemployment.
  
• A record-high stock market setting new records regularly in record times.
  
• Hillary Clinton still in the forefront of the Democratic Party, and losing the confidence of voters at a fast pace.
  
• California actually demanding their citizens disregard Federal law.
  
• The lingering images of screaming "NOOOOOO" at the sky because they lost an election.
  
• Rumors of FISA violations concerning the Trump dossier being exposed from Congress, implicating mainly Democrats.
  
• Poor children without healthcare because of a single vote by the Democrats.
  
• Military going without pay because of a single vote by the Democrats.
  
• Continual attempts by Trump to resolve issues with the Democrats on the above two points until the last possible minute.
  
• An admitted cop-killer illegal immigrant in court openly regretting not having killed more cops.
  
• The idea that CNN, NBC, the NYT, and WaPo are "Fake News" becoming viral.
  
• Even the NYT blaming Democrats for the shutdown.
  
• Victories for conservatives in the Supreme Court.

I am seeing nothing - nothing - that will play well with Democrats come November.

What I am seeing is the real concern behind this latest move: desperation. Desperation because the plans of the DNC are falling to ashes before their eyes. The goal of any political party is power, and Trump has been demonized precisely because he directly took on the Democratic power base: he pulled a relatively high minority vote, and in states the DNC thought were safe. He has created a legacy in one short year, whereas Obama's legacy is now threatened by the release of information pointing to corruption in his administration. He is winning the political war at every turn, despite the most blatant and feverish attempts to destroy a man I have ever seen.

Trump's legacy is growing and the DNC will do anything to stop it. They want the wall to be a fading, quashed dream, and they know that Trump has the upper hand because of DACA. They want the economy under Trump to fail, but it is exploding before their eyes. This is a way to try and force a victory: if the Republicans had given in on DACA, Trump would have lost his bargaining chip on immigration reform. If they didn't give in, the government shutdown would slow economic growth. One aspect of Trump's legacy was going to take a hit.

But what they didn't count on was their truly worst enemy: the American public. Hurting the economy hurts the people they need to vote for them. Hurting immigration reform might have not hurt as many people (at least not directly). Trump took the best path for him and his agenda... he let the Democrats shut down the government, hurting as many people as possible directly, and made sure the blame was going to fall on the heads of the DNC. Will this be a trying year? Yes, probably. The economic boon will lessen while this goes on and the specter of another shutdown will loom over business growth until the budget process is fixed. A great deal of the economy is tied to government contracts, which a shutdown affects directly. No one will hire more workers for a contract that can be pulled at any time on the whim of one man, especially if that man has shown he cares nothing about anyone but himself and his personal agenda for power.

But that's one year. Just one. Come next January, a new Congress will be seated and it is looking like the Republicans may well get their needed 60-vote majority in the Senate. Even if they just get close, I am proud to say that Doug Jones actually crossed the aisle and did the right thing, Schumer be damned. I'm actually proud of the boy, despite campaigning hard against him. Let's see if the trend continues... for the first time, I have a little hope for him.

TheRedneck

You are aware that McConnell held this vote to invoke cloture, to prevent a filibuster, but had secured 5 Democrat votes for simple majority passage (because 4 Republicans intended to vote against it), yes?

Who was the Senator who intended to filibuster?

If nobody really intended to filibuster, then this is all a ploy by McConnell for political gain.

a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

Being from the UK, you already have a 'wall'... it's called the ocean.

The wall is more than a structure. It is a symbol for border security and immigration reform. It consists of several things:

• A physical structure running from Brownsville to San Diego, with the construction based on the geography and needs of the specific area.
  
• Increased border patrol presence.
  
• Increased border control authority to do their job.
  
• An end to the VISA 'lottery' program.
  
• An end (or at least a serious curtailment) of chain immigration.
  
• An end to 'sanctuary cities.'
  
• An improved work VISA program.
  
• More enforcement of illegal hiring violations.
  
• Better security at ports.
  
• A streamlined and easier merit-based immigration policy.

Trump has spoken of all these things, but it takes a lot of time to specify each and every one of them. So combined, they are referred to colloquially as "the Wall." The wall itself is the most visible, and most obvious physical sign of the changes, so it gets the press.

Now I ask you a question: if I somehow manage to make it to England in a rowboat, and pull it in at a port with no money, no ID, no skills, and no ability to speak that stuff you call 'English,' will you take me in, give me a free home, free food, a free education, and everything I need free for the rest of my life?

TheRedneck

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

So having a strong border security is considered stupid?

A wall has nothing to do with strong border security. Most illegals come here legally.

a reply to: DBCowboy

Everyone is focused on the wall.

Because Trump is so focused on it. Almost a day never passes that he doesn't bring it up. The deal was that the Mexicans would pay for it. They won't, so the deal is off. He doesn't seem to get that. Nobody seems to get that.