U.S. Government is Shutting Down at Midnight

a reply to: darkbake


I actually do not expect it to last more than a week, but the damage is done the democrats have now publically stated that non-citizens are more important than citizens.

It pisses me off because I was hoping the democrats could come back from the brink, though that is starting to look like a forlorn hope.

a reply to: Irishhaf

Whoah fella, your patriotism clouded your comprehension there. At no point did I say nobody else is doing it and I didn't excuse my govt for it either.

I believe they are all guilty of serious overreach and it's only going to get worse. Yes, I think the US is leading the world in the surveillance stakes. No, I don't dislike the USA and, yes, I understand there's a need for surveillance.

a reply to: Kandinsky


think we are having a failure to communicate, short version of what I was getting at;

All nations do it, others could stop most of what America does but chooses not to so they can continue using the information they have gathered.

Did not mean to imply you have a problem with the states either.

a reply to: Irishhaf

Fair enough

Yes, I agree with that. It's all kind of twisted up. The US indulged in political espionage in Germany which I thought was appalling. The German govt complained loudly. However, the German NSA cut a deal with the US NSA to forget all about it in exchange for 'tokens' to make information requests.

This is really my issue with it all. The elected people are outlived by the institutions of the Intel community. The deals go against populations and they never get a say in it. To me, it's a steady removal of privacy and not even our elected officials can stop it. By the time they get to the top, they're all mired in quid pro quo. In a sense, the US surveillance state is selling informational 'crack' to its allies and they're giving up their citizens' privacy to get more.

a reply to: Kandinsky


Its all good, I am probably a little more testy today since my wife is not getting paid and we will have to use saved money to pay rent in Germany.

On top of I'm getting ready to head out to do a polar bear run with a bunch of Germans and they have been blowing up my phone with messages about how screwed up my govt is.

As If I didn't know that, but boy howdy do they get upset when I point out how screwed up theirs is.

a reply to: Irishhaf

Busy day mate

You're a man after my own heart with your readiness to raise a voice and put it behind you just as quickly. There's so much squabbling on the boards and we should always go against it.

I'm seeing a lot of comments from people directly blaming Democrats for this shutdown, while conveniently forgetting the Republican party did exactly the same thing for 8 years during Obama - and made a big deal of telling everyone about it.

From what I understand some Republicans didn't vote on the bill either, I wonder how the Trumpets explain that?

It doesn't really matter anyway, the President said "The President" was to blame for shutdowns way back in 2013:

a reply to: Kryties

The shut down occurs because of an epic level bad congress, my comment are more geared towards the incredible bone headed move the democrats made insisting on DACA from a political view point.

Least that's my take on it, the blame lies squarely in congress with both parties the same way it usually is the fault of congress for everything done wrong since around ww1 probably, possibly earlier.

originally posted by: NightFlight

originally posted by: JinMI
Does this mean I don't have to pay income taxes for the time they are not in service to the country?

Yure forgetting that the IRS and the Federal Reserve are not US government agencies.

I'm sure that someone has corrected you on this by now, but you do realize that the Internal Revenue Services's website ends in ".gov" ??!!

originally posted by: Irishhaf
a reply to: Kryties

The shut down occurs because of an epic level bad congress, my comment are more geared towards the incredible bone headed move the democrats made insisting on DACA from a political view point.

Least that's my take on it, the blame lies squarely in congress with both parties the same way it usually is the fault of congress for everything done wrong since around ww1 probably, possibly earlier.

I don't disagree that politics and politicians as a whole are actually detrimental to progress rather than an aid to it.

All I have to do is watch 10 minutes of Parlimentary Question Time here in Oz and im ready to throw myself off a cliff.

Donald J Trump, 8th Nov 2013 on the Obama shutdown: "Leadership: Whatever happens, you're responsible. If it doesn't happen, you're responsible."

a reply to: xuenchen

HAHAHA! thanks for these early laughs giggiddy

originally posted by: Painterz
Donald J Trump, 8th Nov 2013 on the Obama shutdown: "Leadership: Whatever happens, you're responsible. If it doesn't happen, you're responsible."

That was before we found out that the Obama administration and the Democrats were utterly corrupt and conniving.

Well, it's kind of obvious what the goal was. DACA is not close to expiring, and both parties say they want it codified and have been meeting to iron out the details. That was the only stumbling block the Democrats objected to: DACA was not included in the budget, because it has nothing to do with the budget.

So, let's do a little comparison, shall we? Democrats can now say

"We stood up to the Republicans and they shut the government down! They're racist, xenophobic, sexist, homophobic bigots who want to have everything their way!"

And then the Republicans can say

"We included every single spending measure the Democrats wanted, and they used Senate rules to not even allow us to vote on the bill to keep the government open. Thanks to them, needy children have lost their health care, our soldiers are not getting paid, and Federal workers are being laid off! And all because they didn't want to openly address a way to help the Dreamers."

Yeah, that's going to go over like a lead balloon for Schumer, especially since Trump has already coined the term "Schumer Shutdown." That one will stick as hard as "Crooked Hillary."

My Dad, rest his soul, used to say, "When you find yourself in a hole, stop digging." Someone needs to tell the Senate Democrats that. As of right now, less than a year before their highly-anticipated 2018 midterms, we have the following:

• A booming economy, with ever-increasing good news for everyone, especially minorities.
  
• Lower taxes which will become apparent even to the skeptics next month.
  
• A rapidly expanding job market and record low unemployment.
  
• A record-high stock market setting new records regularly in record times.
  
• Hillary Clinton still in the forefront of the Democratic Party, and losing the confidence of voters at a fast pace.
  
• California actually demanding their citizens disregard Federal law.
  
• The lingering images of screaming "NOOOOOO" at the sky because they lost an election.
  
• Rumors of FISA violations concerning the Trump dossier being exposed from Congress, implicating mainly Democrats.
  
• Poor children without healthcare because of a single vote by the Democrats.
  
• Military going without pay because of a single vote by the Democrats.
  
• Continual attempts by Trump to resolve issues with the Democrats on the above two points until the last possible minute.
  
• An admitted cop-killer illegal immigrant in court openly regretting not having killed more cops.
  
• The idea that CNN, NBC, the NYT, and WaPo are "Fake News" becoming viral.
  
• Even the NYT blaming Democrats for the shutdown.
  
• Victories for conservatives in the Supreme Court.

I am seeing nothing - nothing - that will play well with Democrats come November.

What I am seeing is the real concern behind this latest move: desperation. Desperation because the plans of the DNC are falling to ashes before their eyes. The goal of any political party is power, and Trump has been demonized precisely because he directly took on the Democratic power base: he pulled a relatively high minority vote, and in states the DNC thought were safe. He has created a legacy in one short year, whereas Obama's legacy is now threatened by the release of information pointing to corruption in his administration. He is winning the political war at every turn, despite the most blatant and feverish attempts to destroy a man I have ever seen.

Trump's legacy is growing and the DNC will do anything to stop it. They want the wall to be a fading, quashed dream, and they know that Trump has the upper hand because of DACA. They want the economy under Trump to fail, but it is exploding before their eyes. This is a way to try and force a victory: if the Republicans had given in on DACA, Trump would have lost his bargaining chip on immigration reform. If they didn't give in, the government shutdown would slow economic growth. One aspect of Trump's legacy was going to take a hit.

But what they didn't count on was their truly worst enemy: the American public. Hurting the economy hurts the people they need to vote for them. Hurting immigration reform might have not hurt as many people (at least not directly). Trump took the best path for him and his agenda... he let the Democrats shut down the government, hurting as many people as possible directly, and made sure the blame was going to fall on the heads of the DNC. Will this be a trying year? Yes, probably. The economic boon will lessen while this goes on and the specter of another shutdown will loom over business growth until the budget process is fixed. A great deal of the economy is tied to government contracts, which a shutdown affects directly. No one will hire more workers for a contract that can be pulled at any time on the whim of one man, especially if that man has shown he cares nothing about anyone but himself and his personal agenda for power.

But that's one year. Just one. Come next January, a new Congress will be seated and it is looking like the Republicans may well get their needed 60-vote majority in the Senate. Even if they just get close, I am proud to say that Doug Jones actually crossed the aisle and did the right thing, Schumer be damned. I'm actually proud of the boy, despite campaigning hard against him. Let's see if the trend continues... for the first time, I have a little hope for him.

TheRedneck

a reply to: Perfectenemy

Actually, the Senators and reps and the President's people all get paid.

The national parks are closed, SS gets paid and the democrats still get their food stamps.

This is no biggie. Just a DC game been played for 200 years. Sounds bad-it's nothing but pr.

a reply to: Justso


Just an FYI, the national parks will remain open.

The only impact is that there might be a delay with military pay and non-essential government employees will be furloughed.

a reply to: DBCowboy

Gee, the "papers" are reporting Yosemite, national museums, other parks as closed. Only know what I read. "wink"

a reply to: DBCowboy

The only impact is that there might be a delay with military pay and non-essential government employees will be furloughed.

That's the only real, direct impact.

Indirectly, there will likely be at least a temporary slowdown in the economic boon. I mentioned that above.

Politically (as opposed to "real"), Trump and to a smaller extent the Republican Party just got a late Christmas present. If he plays this right, and history has shown the man can play the media like a cheap fiddle, this is the death knell for the Democratic Party. Not going to say that is a good thing (the Republicans unrestrained are just as bad and corruptible), but it is what it is.

Oh, and the parks are unfunded... they are planning a slow, controlled shutdown using money they already had from my understanding. Many of their services will be unavailable.

TheRedneck

a reply to: TheRedneck


If played right, Trump will show how superfluous government actually is.