Mike Pence’s NFL Walkout Was a Cheap, Transparent Stunt (at a cost to the taxpayer)

originally posted by: Deaf Alien
a reply to: UKTruth

No. You deflected by talking about Pence's bathroom habit. Are you a pervert?
And I have no comment on the players using taxpayer money because I don't know much about that. I thought it was the NFL, not players. But stop deflecting to Pence's bathroom habits and players. Let's focus on Pence and his cheap public stunt as per the OP. Stop going off topic.

Ah, another deflection... It's now quite obvious you understand your logic fail.

Let me help you with a few points.

As a taxpayer, you don't own Pence's actions.
Any tax used as part of his trip is just like any other expense in his public life.
So the whole outrage that 'he used taxpayer money' is a strawman created by those who are STILL upset at losing an election and take every opportunity to display their faux outrage.

As for the 'stunt'. It's been very effective. Overall, it's been a big win for Trump. The players are back in their place on the whole, which is a good thing.

...and yes, the Govt subsidise the NFL with taxpayer money, money that would hit player wages if it had to be paid by the clubs and not taxpayers. You might find the amount is a lot more than Pence's trip - if you looked into it.

a reply to: UKTruth

As a taxpayer, you don't own Pence's actions. 

No sh t Sherlock? I never said that.
And in case you didn't realize the players get paid to play. They are on the job during the game, not before and after. So your argument about "players getting paid by taxpayers' money to protest" falls apart.

And no it isn't effective. The players will still kneel, hence wasting our tax money. It's scary that the administration is abusing it's power to supress free speech. Don't that concern you?

a reply to: Southern Guardian

You realize this whole situation has been a stunt promoted by the left from the beginning, right? Too bad the poor, oppressed millionaires aren't getting the kind of reaction they wanted.

From what I hear Pence has been a long time Colts fan, and this "stunt" was more of a statement. And it worked.

‘Stand for anthem or sit for game’: NFL owner’s ultimatum to players

originally posted by: Deaf Alien
a reply to: UKTruth

As a taxpayer, you don't own Pence's actions. 

No sh t Sherlock? I never said that.
And in case you didn't realize the players get paid to play. They are on the job during the game, not before and after. So your argument about "players getting paid by taxpayers' money to protest" falls apart.

And no it isn't effective. The players will still kneel, hence wasting our tax money. It's scary that the administration is abusing it's power to supress free speech. Don't that concern you?

How is making a statement that you don't like players kneeling during the anthem "abusing power to suppress free speech"??
For that to be true then EVERY statement/action by a govt official that criticises or admonishes ANYTHING said by a citizen is an abuse of power to suppress free speech.
Your logic is all over the place.

a reply to: UKTruth

Nope. Your logic is all over the place. Pence's bathroom habit. Seriously?

And from your comments it seems that you don't think Americans should be allowed to express opinions about politicians' actions. I hope you don't believe that? Do you?

originally posted by: Deaf Alien
a reply to: UKTruth

Nope. Your logic is all over the place. Pence's bathroom habit. Seriously?

And from your comments it seems that you don't think Americans should be allowed to express opinions about politicians' actions. I hope you don't believe that? Do you?

Another of your logic fails.
The players WERE allowed to express their opinions - as was Pence.
You seem very confused about events.
The players will STILL be allowed to express their opinions if the owners of the teams let them - which they will decide individually and has nothing to do with the 1st amendment.

It seems to be you trying to curtail one side of the argument - by labouring on the silly idea that there was something wrong with Pence's actions because of tax money.

We should be able to agree that:
1) As long as the owners let the players protest the anthem, that's acceptable.
2) It is acceptable for a public official to disagree with the protest.

Anything else is just opinion of which side has the best argument.
Discussions about 'stunts' or 'tax' is just a stupid deflection. Accusations of abuse of power to suppress free speech are worse than stupid, it's maniacal.

a reply to: Konduit

You realize this whole situation has been a stunt promoted by the left

Regardless of whom you believe promoted this situation from the beginning, the entire matter was only ignited further after Trumps comments. Now it's given the kneelers even more media attention after this poor stunt by Pence. Thanks to them they're giving the kneelers more exposure.

The funny thing? The kneelers will continue to do what they do. $200,000 worth of tax payer money gone, wasted, for political antics from this administration. You couldn't give a damn. Any excuse.

from the beginning, right? Too bad the poor, oppressed millionaires

Poor oppressed black athletes who happen to earn millions. Other millionaires however, oh no, give them tax cuts. They worked hard didn't they Konduit? Yes I went there. Wouldn't hear a peep from people like you about other millionaires getting tax cuts and donating to other groups. Nope. Your mouth shut.

You have a good morning now you hear? Keep up the hypocrisy.

a reply to: UKTruth

Again with being Captain Obvious. Why do you love to be Captain Obvious? Pence is free to protest all he wants. He is free to waste our money doing it. Nobody ever denied that. Now, here's the most important part, I am free to say that it is silly for Pence to waste taxpayers' money for the faux cheap publicity stunt. If you have a problem with that, then you need to go to your safe space.
People have the right to complain about how the administration spend taxpayers' money. They have been doing that throughout history. ATS members here do that all time. Complaining about how they spend money on the military. I guess to you that means they want president to be under house and office arrest? (BTW that was one of the most ridiculous straw man arguments I have ever seen on ATS so grats.)

originally posted by: Deaf Alien
a reply to: UKTruth

Again with being Captain Obvious. Why do you love to be Captain Obvious? Pence is free to protest all he wants. He is free to waste our money doing it. Nobody ever denied that. Now, here's the most important part, I am free to say that it is silly for Pence to waste taxpayers' money for the faux cheap publicity stunt. If you have a problem with that, then you need to go to your safe space.
People have the right to complain about how the administration spend taxpayers' money. They have been doing that throughout history. ATS members here do that all time. Complaining about how they spend money on the military. I guess to you that means they want president to be under house and office arrest? (BTW that was one of the most ridiculous straw man arguments I have ever seen on ATS so grats.)

Your opinion is that he wasted taxpayer money - but that's a logic fail as we've covered.
Many taxpayers are delighted with his actions and see it anything but a waste.
That's why opinions about waste are nothing more than whining and stating it as fact is for those that can't see past their own noses.
You get to vote - beyond that you can complain all you like, but have no control over individual actions by those in govt or the cost associated to them and you have no monopoly on the narrative. I pay taxes in the US and I am delighted with what Pence did and do not see it as a waste at all.

I am glad you have finally realised that what Pence did was perfectly acceptable.
I knew we'd get there.

originally posted by: windword
a reply to: libertytoall

]

]

Funny right?

Makes you think.

I am glad you have finally realised that what Pence did was perfectly acceptable. 
I knew we'd get there. 

If that makes you feel better for not winning then go right ahead.
At least you finally realize that it's our opinions. Good.
My opinon of Pence's faux protest? Stupid.
Your opinion of it? Good.
There it's settled.

Next time you complain about a politican's action, I'll accuse you of wanting him or her to be under house arrest to remind you of how ridiculous your argument was.

a reply to: Southern Guardian

Does it make you think?
If it did, you'd quickly realise the answer.
The 1st amendment does not protect you from an employers wishes when it comes to protesting and what you say/do.

originally posted by: Deaf Alien

I am glad you have finally realised that what Pence did was perfectly acceptable. 
I knew we'd get there. 

If that makes you feel better for not winning then go right ahead.
At least you finally realize that it's our opinions. Good.
My opinon of Pence's faux protest? Stupid.
Your opinion of it? Good.
There it's settled.

Next time you complain about a politican's action, I'll accuse you of wanting him or her to be under house arrest to remind you of how ridiculous your argument was.

Please do, it will remind me how ridiculous the "taxpayer argument" is that is used by leftists upset they lost an election.

originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: Deaf Alien

I am glad you have finally realised that what Pence did was perfectly acceptable. 
I knew we'd get there. 

If that makes you feel better for not winning then go right ahead.
At least you finally realize that it's our opinions. Good.
My opinon of Pence's faux protest? Stupid.
Your opinion of it? Good.
There it's settled.

Next time you complain about a politican's action, I'll accuse you of wanting him or her to be under house arrest to remind you of how ridiculous your argument was.

Please do, it will remind me how ridiculous the "taxpayer argument" is that is used by leftists upset they lost an election.

Wow. You admitted that your argument was ridiculous! Bravo.

originally posted by: UKTruth
a reply to: Southern Guardian
The 1st amendment does not protect you from an employers wishes when it comes to protesting and what you say/do.

The OP has nothing do with that. As far as I'm aware the teams (aside from the Dallas Cowboys who we'll be watching closely) have been in full support of their players and their right to kneel. Some of the coaches, owners, have even stood by the players and their right. No where in their contract does it stipulate they *must* stand for the anthem either, no contract anybody is aware of.

Does that annoy you? That the other teams are not readily complying with Trumps demands to fire their players? Their employees? I bet it annoys you. How dare they not bow to the emperor right? Trump uses his power as president to coerce private businesses to fire their employees/contractors just because he does not agree with their stand. You're all dandy with this.

God forbid Obama ever did this.

a reply to: Lurker1

And whose spending level being outshone in every important respect by the very man that some of your countrymen selected, based on his promise of being respectful toward the taxpayer and careful with their money (which, given his track record was always a shaky proposition).

As for backing off... I will tell you what:

When Americans no longer see fit to comment on, or involve themselves in matters pertaining to the Middle East, North Korea, China, Europe, Africa, Russia and my own country, when America both on the governmental and the public level, has NOTHING to say about ANYWHERE else, then I will back off. However, while your dark money is still being invested in global war, while your agencies are still pulling strings all over the world, controlling markets and economies besides your own, while your talking heads still feel free to talk nonsense about things which are going on all over the planet, which they simply have not researched carefully enough to comment, nor objectively enough to make their commentary worth a damn, I will continue to comment as I may, about which you can do precisely NOTHING.

Understood? Lovely. You have yourself a nice day now.

a reply to: Southern Guardian

What are they even protesting with this circus at the NFL? It's always been very vaguely defined. It started with a failing QB's last ditch attempt for attention and liberal brownie points before he got the boot, and now it's just become a fad like the rest of these movements. KONY 2012!

a reply to: Konduit

Konduit,

Kapernick was, before these protests, actually doing better than average, when compared with people occupying similar positions in other teams. He was not outshining the top performers, but he was not bottom of the table by any means.

a reply to: Xtrozero

I am the boss, so liberty is not a problem for me.

But nor is it a problem for the team bosses who have come forward to support their players right to protest.

a reply to: Southern Guardian

Your reply to that post was, though.
The images presented show a lack of understanding of what the complaints are, falsely lumping different issues together and concluding with a ridiculous assertion that people are silent when 'we' die.

It's reasonable to request peaceful protest.
It's a reasonable reaction for a sports fan to get upset when players push political messages down their throats when watching a game.
It's a reasonable reaction to be upset if you believe the country is being disrespected.

Now reasonable does not necessarily mean right, but to equate these different situations and the reactions to them as condoning the deaths of people is a nonsense.