Mike Pence’s NFL Walkout Was a Cheap, Transparent Stunt (at a cost to the taxpayer)

originally posted by: luthier

Except for the owners who support the players.

I do not understand your response. Are you saying that since some owners support, so it is the right thing to do, or are you just saying they can do it on the clock and not get fired.

The bottom line is whether a person sees it as maybe good intentions, but wrong/right/don't care way to do it. We all including the President and VP can express are support or distaste for their actions. Whether sales are affected or not is to be seen. You have your personal views and I have mine on the subject and it is all good.

a reply to: Xtrozero

Lol,

No I mean the president and in fact all politicians are bound by law not to interfere in commerce or influence employers relationship with employees. Of course that may not be the case in reality but politicans opinions on employer employee relationships is not supposed to happen. Sure it does none the less.


And it's the owners 1st amend right to protest for the flag ceremony correct?

At this point it's pointless. And like many of the NFL protestors have its time to find another way to get the message out in my opinion.

Anquan Boldin strait up quit to become an activist after his cousin was murdered in Florida by a cop who is going to jail for instance.

a reply to: DJW001

At the next election - correct.
The money is no longer yours and you have no say how it is apportioned - you only get to vote and hope that it will be apportioned more to your liking.
Bottom line is none of 'your' money is being spent.

a reply to: luthier

The protesters are not just people from the black community.
Singling out one race when the problem is broader is divisive, not to mention racist.
I can only imagine the reaction to a league-wide protest highlighting crimes against white people.

originally posted by: UKTruth
a reply to: DJW001

At the next election - correct.
The money is no longer yours and you have no say how it is apportioned - you only get to vote and hope that it will be apportioned more to your liking.
Bottom line is none of 'your' money is being spent.

That money belongs to the people, not Mike Pence, not Donald Trump.

originally posted by: DJW001

originally posted by: UKTruth
a reply to: DJW001

At the next election - correct.
The money is no longer yours and you have no say how it is apportioned - you only get to vote and hope that it will be apportioned more to your liking.
Bottom line is none of 'your' money is being spent.

That money belongs to the people, not Mike Pence, not Donald Trump.

...and not you.

originally posted by: luthier

No I mean the president and in fact all politicians are bound by law not to interfere in commerce or influence employers relationship with employees. Of course that may not be the case in reality but politicans opinions on employer employee relationships is not supposed to happen. Sure it does none the less.

Correct... not to interfere...Opinions is their right too and that is all I have seen so far. Can you link the Executive Order banning their right to protest by sitting to prove me wrong?

At this point it's pointless. And like many of the NFL protestors have its time to find another way to get the message out in my opinion.

Agree, there are better ways they can protest and actually do good. How about Chicago pro teams protest the Mass killings they see in their city that out weights the NV event every month?

originally posted by: UKTruth
a reply to: luthier

The protesters are not just people from the black community.
Singling out one race when the problem is broader is divisive, not to mention racist.
I can only imagine the reaction to a league-wide protest highlighting crimes against white people.

Lol, looks like you know nothing about the American criminal justice system or the protestors.

But it's nice to just pick up the political troll lines. You don't have to read much.

originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: DJW001

originally posted by: UKTruth
a reply to: DJW001

At the next election - correct.
The money is no longer yours and you have no say how it is apportioned - you only get to vote and hope that it will be apportioned more to your liking.
Bottom line is none of 'your' money is being spent.

That money belongs to the people, not Mike Pence, not Donald Trump.

...and not you.

I am a people, a dues paying member of this society, and I object to my dues being spent this way. You, on the other hand, pay no dues here at all... so your opinion does not matter.

originally posted by: luthier

originally posted by: ThirdEyeofHorus

originally posted by: luthier

originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: Konduit
a reply to: Southern Guardian

What are they even protesting with this circus at the NFL? It's always been very vaguely defined. It started with a failing QB's last ditch attempt for attention and liberal brownie points before he got the boot, and now it's just become a fad like the rest of these movements. KONY 2012!

I think they are protesting the election result, but it makes it less silly if they pretend it's about cops shooting black people (at least to those who believe that is a systemic issue).

Cops shooting people is a systemic problem. It may not be exclusively a black problem by any means but US Law enforcement has incredibly low standards.

Like 80 percent out of shape. Or 60 percent are bad marksman. Those small fundamental things create a host of problems.

Criminal justice reform is a very real need bit the executors of the law are broadly inept to be in conflict on the street. Not every city bUT most.

abcnews.go.com...

www.medicaldaily.com...


bearingarms.com...

www.apmreports.org...


www.reuters.com...

the original kaepernik protest was expressly about people of color and that he would not stand up for the country. Liberals need to stop pretending it's about supporting veterans and such. We all know what it's about.

I dont really concern myself with what liberals do.

Just the facts. Law enforcement in the us is a major problem. For them and for us.

Go ahead and start disputing what I presented rather than make the strawman.

as long as there's crime in the inner cities you're going to have the problem of law enforcement. Looks like 30 years of forced busing abd welfare didn't help. Trust me, I lived in St Louis most of my life. I lived in South town where steeets are named after Martin Luther King.. I drove past he Projects regularly. Windows always broken out and everything shoddy. Sad situation. I'm sure it's like that in Chicago and every other big city. It was truly sad to see the riots in Ferguson so close to home. Whose fault is it really?

originally posted by: DJW001

originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: DJW001

originally posted by: UKTruth
a reply to: DJW001

At the next election - correct.
The money is no longer yours and you have no say how it is apportioned - you only get to vote and hope that it will be apportioned more to your liking.
Bottom line is none of 'your' money is being spent.

That money belongs to the people, not Mike Pence, not Donald Trump.

...and not you.

I am a people, a dues paying member of this society, and I object to my dues being spent this way. You, on the other hand, pay no dues here at all... so your opinion does not matter.

Trump and Pence are people too and pay taxes. I dare say Trump has paid far more than you.
As for me, I pay taxes in the US, so you got that wrong too.

You can object all you like about how taxes are spent - and get to vote to try and change things. Other than that, the money doesn't belong to you. It belongs to the people collectively and no one person has any claim to any of it, or special privilege to direct how their portion should be spent.

originally posted by: Xtrozero

originally posted by: luthier

No I mean the president and in fact all politicians are bound by law not to interfere in commerce or influence employers relationship with employees. Of course that may not be the case in reality but politicans opinions on employer employee relationships is not supposed to happen. Sure it does none the less.

Correct... not to interfere...Opinions is their right too and that is all I have seen so far. Can you link the Executive Order banning their right to protest by sitting to prove me wrong?

At this point it's pointless. And like many of the NFL protestors have its time to find another way to get the message out in my opinion.

Agree, there are better ways they can protest and actually do good. How about Chicago pro teams protest the Mass killings they see in their city that out weights the NV event every month?

You mean the most corrupt police depth in the country with the most corrupt political system?

Chicago is a bad example bud..

originally posted by: ThirdEyeofHorus

originally posted by: luthier

originally posted by: ThirdEyeofHorus

originally posted by: luthier

originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: Konduit
a reply to: Southern Guardian

What are they even protesting with this circus at the NFL? It's always been very vaguely defined. It started with a failing QB's last ditch attempt for attention and liberal brownie points before he got the boot, and now it's just become a fad like the rest of these movements. KONY 2012!

I think they are protesting the election result, but it makes it less silly if they pretend it's about cops shooting black people (at least to those who believe that is a systemic issue).

Cops shooting people is a systemic problem. It may not be exclusively a black problem by any means but US Law enforcement has incredibly low standards.

Like 80 percent out of shape. Or 60 percent are bad marksman. Those small fundamental things create a host of problems.

Criminal justice reform is a very real need bit the executors of the law are broadly inept to be in conflict on the street. Not every city bUT most.

abcnews.go.com...

www.medicaldaily.com...


bearingarms.com...

www.apmreports.org...


www.reuters.com...

the original kaepernik protest was expressly about people of color and that he would not stand up for the country. Liberals need to stop pretending it's about supporting veterans and such. We all know what it's about.

I dont really concern myself with what liberals do.

Just the facts. Law enforcement in the us is a major problem. For them and for us.

Go ahead and start disputing what I presented rather than make the strawman.

as long as there's crime in the inner cities you're going to have the problem of law enforcement. Looks like 30 years of forced busing abd welfare didn't help. Trust me, I lived in St Louis most of my life. I lived in South town where steeets are named after Martin Luther King.. I drove past he Projects regularly. Windows always broken out and everything shoddy. Sad situation. I'm sure it's like that in Chicago and every other big city. It was truly sad to see the riots in Ferguson so close to home. Whose fault is it really?

Yes the war on poverty was institutional racism.

So was the war on drugs.
Rand Paul: Drug war targets minorities

a reply to: UKTruth

The president, vice president and politicians are considered by law to have a different influence with their opinions on certain subjects.


More importantly.

This was a clear.

Wag the dog.

a reply to: luthier
I have seen enough to take a position that no systematic bias exists in the system when it comes to policing, but I am sure I have not seen everything.
If you can show me some hard facts supported by data that demonstrate any systematic bias then please do.

originally posted by: luthier
a reply to: UKTruth

The president, vice president and politicians are considered by law to have a different influence with their opinions on certain subjects.


More importantly.

This was a clear.

Wag the dog.

So, they are still people and they still pay taxes.
The fact they are elected into office just means they have more of a say than you do over how taxes are spent.

This IS clear and still doesn't change the fact that tax revenues are not 'yours'.

originally posted by: Southern Guardian
No seriously how much folks? Any ideas? Maybe one of the former Tea Party members on this great forum of ours can come out and give us a guesstimation? Taxed enough right? Small government right?

The first sign that Pence’s scurrying-off was staged: these were the San Francisco 49ers that the Colts were playing. The 49ers have been protesting racism during the anthem for over a year. Led by safety Eric Reid, the first player to kneel with Colin Kaepernick over a year ago, the 49ers are the team you’d pick if you wanted to fake outrage about someone peacefully protesting police brutality. Peter Alexander of NBC News tweeted almost immediately, “Reporters [accompanying Pence] were told to stay in van bc ‘there may be an early departure from the game.’” In other words, in advance of the anthem, Pence was planning to show up and then leave.

Then the veep’s own publicly available schedule tripped him up. That morning, his team let it be known that Pence would be at a California fundraiser by 6:30pm. The plane was gassed up and ready to go.

www.thenation.com...

More.

Air Force 2 costs the government $42,936 an hour to fly, and estimated Pence’s trip to Indianapolis took about two and a half hours flying time, each way. That would put the flight’s cost well over $200,000.

And that doesn’t include the costs of a hotel room in Indianapolis,where Pence spent Saturday night, and extra police protection in Indianapolis. Fans at Sunday’s game were asked to show up early due to enhanced security at the stadium.

www.marketwatch.com...

Oh but it's pocket change right? So who cares right? Well no it's not 'pocket change'. It's money that could gone to better use somewhere else like Puerto Rico? Texas? Lousiana is about to be hit. Florida got hit. How much plates of food could that money have created? Considering the constant outrage on this forum by the same characters over the last 8 years over government money use, tax payer funds used, pure silence over this. Silence over tax payer money being used for this stunt to suit ones ego. Pence and Trump knew full well some of those players were going to kneel. The only people claiming this was genuine outrage on the side of the Vice President are lying to themselves and everybody else.

You know the worst thing? This stunt will be forgotten by next week and all that money gone for good. All for this stunt that goes nowhere. Anybody who pushes the nonsense Pence is trying to get out there following this stunt really need to question where their priorities lie.

Here come the excuses.

 

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All rules for polite political debate will be enforced.
Reaffirming Our Desire For Productive Political Debate (REVISED)

You are responsible for your own posts.....those who ignore that responsibility will face mod actions.

So you've upset because of Pense's trip to Indy..... I believe your concern is misplaced.

Okay let's talk 'pocket change'.....

from Financial cost of Iraq war

According to a Congressional Budget Office (CBO) report published in October 2007, the U. S. wars in Iraq and Afghanistan could cost taxpayers a total of $2.4 TRILLION by 2017 when counting the huge interest costs because combat is being financed with borrowed money.

Let's start putting that into perspective.....

Cost of Pense flight: $200,000
Cost of hotel room: $5,000
Cost of meals: $2,000
Cost of federal security: $50,000
Cost of Indianopolis security: $20,000
Incidentals: $23,000

TOTAL: $300,000

... Now remember, the $2.4 trillion* was estimated as of October 2007 and there's been additional costs to date (let's throw in the Afghanistan war BUT which total, doesn't include other costs like the mental anguish of losing a son or a daughter, which is dick all compared to the cost of Pense's trip, but I digress) so that number should be higher .... which the Military Times suggest is $4.79 trillion*.

For purposes of the determining Penses's rather trivial actions vs a nations wide-reaching actions, we'll stick with the $2.4 trillion.

% of that spent on family / nation destroying wars: 300,000 / 2,400,000,000,000
to make it more simple knock off 5 zero's from each number = 3 / 24,000,000 = 0.000000125

Mathematical check $2,400,000,000,000 X 0.00000125 = $300,000


Where's the outrage for the $2,400,000,000,000 expenditure?


* to see what a trillion would look like see $1 trillion looks like this >> YIKES... this is what ONE TRILLION dollars looks like

** see cost in an article by the Military Times (based on calculations released by independent researchers) Military Times article

originally posted by: UKTruth
a reply to: luthier
I have seen enough to take a position that no systematic bias exists in the system when it comes to policing, but I am sure I have not seen everything.
If you can show me some hard facts supported by data that demonstrate any systematic bias then please do.

www.cnn.com...

www.usatoday.com...

www.forbes.com...


www.drugpolicy.org...

a reply to: UKTruth

What? No kidding.

My problem is the cheap meaningless publicity stunt wagging the dog

a reply to: Oldtimer2 I don't think it matters what 'side' you are on. This is an egregious waste of money. The fact that we, the citizens are supposed to exercise constraint with our finances and pay dearly if we don't,watch a government in mega debt squander money like someone with 500 credit cards to abuse makes me sick. And we end up paying for this....it makes me glad this empire is going down the tubes at a very fast pace. Then maybe everyone will have to pay, but probably not.