Mike Pence’s NFL Walkout Was a Cheap, Transparent Stunt (at a cost to the taxpayer)

Yep I'm not watching any sports anymore they can all GTFO

originally posted by: DJW001

That money belongs to the people, not Mike Pence, not Donald Trump.

So why are you protesting this one case when we all can point to 10,000s of cases across many Presidents and 1000s of other political figures?

It just seems disingenuous for you and a few others to latch on to this and not have a history of the same for many other politicians. Just another I hate Trump remark in my view.

originally posted by: Xtrozero

originally posted by: DJW001

That money belongs to the people, not Mike Pence, not Donald Trump.

So why are you protesting this one case when we all can point to 10,000s of cases across many Presidents and 1000s of other political figures?

It just seems disingenuous for you and a few others to latch on to this and not have a history of the same for many other politicians. Just another I hate Trump remark in my view.



Or to defend the people in your team but blast the other in general.

originally posted by: libertytoall
Yep I'm not watching any sports anymore they can all GTFO

See I went the opposite.

I stopped listening to partisan political hacks and decided to watch art and sports. I can just turn the game in 3 minutes after its start, that isn't true for CNN or fox.

Can any geniuses here make an argument that the criminal justice system and policing isn't broken?

a reply to: luthier

Took some time to read them.
None of them prove any bias with any hard facts - the closest to numbers comes from one report that actually EXCLUDES crime stats and just uses the same misleading information about population percentages vs incarceration percentages.
That's hopelessly inadequate.

So, for example.

If there are 10 people, 8 white and 2 black and 2 commit crimes and are arrested. 1 white and 1 black...
20% black people in the sample, 50% of overall arrests. But there is NO bias.
However if 5 of the 10 (4 white and 1 black) committed crimes with the same outcome - 2 arrests. 1 white 1 black there WOULD be bias.
I want to see those stats and examples (well I have seen them really).
What I have not seen are compelling data sets that factor in unpunished crime - which is the missing piece to really know.

When I see some statistics that actually show that proportions are skewed between police response and crime, I am willing to change my view, but the data you just presented (and opinions) - poor effort.

a reply to: UKTruth

I figured you wouldn't be able to change your mind.

Ah well.

Your right when people are arrested and jailed at different proportions for the same crime it is meaningless.

originally posted by: luthier

originally posted by: Xtrozero

originally posted by: luthier

No I mean the president and in fact all politicians are bound by law not to interfere in commerce or influence employers relationship with employees. Of course that may not be the case in reality but politicans opinions on employer employee relationships is not supposed to happen. Sure it does none the less.

Correct... not to interfere...Opinions is their right too and that is all I have seen so far. Can you link the Executive Order banning their right to protest by sitting to prove me wrong?

At this point it's pointless. And like many of the NFL protestors have its time to find another way to get the message out in my opinion.

Agree, there are better ways they can protest and actually do good. How about Chicago pro teams protest the Mass killings they see in their city that out weights the NV event every month?

You mean the most corrupt police depth in the country with the most corrupt political system?

Chicago is a bad example bud..

Yah Rahm Emanuel .......

originally posted by: luthier
a reply to: UKTruth

Your right when people are arrested and jailed at different proportions for the same crime it is meaningless.

That is not what you presented.
You just presented population mix by race compared to incarceration/punishment rates by race - a meaningless statistic.

Minds do not change with poor data and arguments.

a reply to: ThirdEyeofHorus

Yep and it's been that way for 100 years.

a reply to: UKTruth

You just not real capable of interpreting the data.

Here is one of the references.

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...

originally posted by: luthier

originally posted by: libertytoall
Yep I'm not watching any sports anymore they can all GTFO

See I went the opposite.

I stopped listening to partisan political hacks and decided to watch art and sports. I can just turn the game in 3 minutes after its start, that isn't true for CNN or fox.

Nah they don't get to have my time. I'll stick with college sports and if that goes sour, I'll be watching high school.

a reply to: libertytoall

Good for you. Keep towing the line.

originally posted by: luthier
a reply to: UKTruth

You just not real capable of interpreting the data.

Is that right

You might like to review your own links. Perhaps you will learn to understand that comparing population mix to arrest rates/punishments is completely spurious in the absence of crime rates/statistics.

That should be obvious, but alas, I keep seeing the same tired comparisons instead of any compelling data.
In fact, when looking at FBI stats, it shows there is no bias at all - or actually a slight bias against whites (though can be explained by variance/chance).

I had a look at your second attempt. Alas, it suffers the same problem.

NYPD countered Spitzer’s concerns of possible bias by noting that comparing persons stopped to residents by race/ethnicity was inappropriate (Flynn, 1999; NYPD, 1999). The NYPD argued that the 85% representation of blacks and Hispanics was consistent with the 89% rate at which victims of violent crimes described their perpetrators as black or Hispanic. In other words, they suggested that blacks and Hispanics were more highly represented within the criminal justice system because they were disproportionately involved in criminal behavior.

originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: luthier
a reply to: UKTruth

You just not real capable of interpreting the data.

Is that right

You might like to review your own links. Perhaps you will learn to understand that comparing population mix to arrest rates/punishments is completely spurious in the absence of crime rates/statistics.

That should be obvious, but alas, I keep seeing the same tired comparisons instead of any compelling data.
In fact, when looking at FBI stats, it shows there is no bias at all - or actually a slight bias against whites (though can be explained by variance/chance).

I had a look at your second attempt. Alas, it suffers the same problem.

Yep that's right.

Data needs to be interpreted. Not sure if you have studied science but that's how it works.

Stop and frisk targeted blacks.

If a black guy and a white guy both possessed the same amount of Marijuana the black guy is 5 times more likely to get sentenced.

The prison population absolutely boomed for the war on drugs.

Apparently black people were not a menace and then they became wild in the streets in the 90's because they were black.

It had nothing to do with the Jim crow hangover, war on drugs, and war on poverty that targeted minorities.

originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: luthier
a reply to: UKTruth

You just not real capable of interpreting the data.

Is that right

You might like to review your own links. Perhaps you will learn to understand that comparing population mix to arrest rates/punishments is completely spurious in the absence of crime rates/statistics.

That should be obvious, but alas, I keep seeing the same tired comparisons instead of any compelling data.
In fact, when looking at FBI stats, it shows there is no bias at all - or actually a slight bias against whites (though can be explained by variance/chance).

I had a look at your second attempt. Alas, it suffers the same problem.

Really and how good is the NYPD's reputation? Lol.

They literally have some of the worst numbers out there for things like shooting innocent people by accident.

This entire thing has blown way out of proportion (thanks to Trump). It's only a thing because Trump has ill-will towards the NFL in the first place. Perhaps he should concentrate on his campaign promises, rather than playing "get even" with people or businesses that have "wronged him" in the past.

originally posted by: luthier

originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: luthier
a reply to: UKTruth

You just not real capable of interpreting the data.

Is that right

You might like to review your own links. Perhaps you will learn to understand that comparing population mix to arrest rates/punishments is completely spurious in the absence of crime rates/statistics.

That should be obvious, but alas, I keep seeing the same tired comparisons instead of any compelling data.
In fact, when looking at FBI stats, it shows there is no bias at all - or actually a slight bias against whites (though can be explained by variance/chance).

I had a look at your second attempt. Alas, it suffers the same problem.

Yep that's right.

Data needs to be interpreted. Not sure if you have studied science but that's how it works.

Stop and frisk targeted blacks.

If a black guy and a white guy both possessed the same amount of Marijuana the black guy is 5 times more likely to get sentenced.

The prison population absolutely boomed for the war on drugs.

Apparently black people were not a menace and then they became wild in the streets in the 90's because they were black.

It had nothing to do with the Jim crow hangiver, war on drugs, and war on poverty that targeted minorities.

Given the spurious nature of the data sets (and lack of in MSM articles) you linked, perhaps you should dig deeper into statistics.

The crime statistics clearly show that blacks are more likely to commit crime - and therefore will be dealing with police at a far higher rate than their population percentage. Now, I do not for one second think this is to do with the colour of ones skin. I believe it is a social issue tied to opportunity and associated poverty rates - which is driven by racism IMO - but it has nothing to do with police. They are just the easy target to ignore deeper social issues.

Moving away from policing (which was really the discussion point), your example of incarceration rates is an interesting one, but that is also not specifically a policing issue - they do not sentence. I suspect poverty plays a role in sentencing - with varying access to quality legal counsel.

She found that the differential harshness experienced by blacks and Hispanics varied significantly with crime type, procedural factors, and extralegal factors. Regarding crime type, blacks and Hispanics were particularly likely to be treated more harshly if they were charged with a drug offense (this finding is based on the result of seven studies) or a less serious crime (three studies). Accordingly, MPV should be a prime candidate for race/ethnicity disparities. Regarding procedural factors, blacks and Hispanics were treated more harshly than similarly situated whites if they were detained before trial (two studies), if they were represented by a public defender as opposed to a private attorney (one study), if they were convicted at trial rather than pleaded guilty (four studies), and if they had a more serious prior criminal record (nine studies). These procedural disadvantages are often experienced by poor minorities. Regarding extralegal factors, blacks and Hispanics were treated more harshly than their white counterparts if they were young (four studies), male (four studies), or unemployed (three studies).

Moreover, the studies of sentencing by race have produced varying results.
From :
The Relationship between Race, Ethnicity, and
Sentencing Outcomes: A Meta-Analysis of
Sentencing Research

Summary

The issue of racial and ethnic disparity in criminal sentencing has been one of the longest standing research topics in all of criminology. At least 70 years of empirical research has focused on this issue without a clear consensus emerging. Over that period, a tremendous body of research has accumulated on this topic. Some studies have found that racial/ethnic minorities are sentenced more harshly than whites even after legally relevant factors, such as offense seriousness and prior criminal history, are taken into consideration. Conversely, a few studies have reached the opposite conclusion–racial minorities are treated more leniently than whites, while still other research has found no differences in sentencing outcomes by race/ethnicity of the defendant.

This particular study took 70+ separate reports and they did find a small statistical difference in favour of white people - though nothing like 5 times.
As mentioned, when controlling for SES, the disparity shrinks to a small amount, suggesting race is not the primary driver.

Smaller estimates of unwarranted sentencing disparity were found in analyses that employed more controls variables, especially those that controlled for defendant SES, and those that utilized precise measures of key variables (prior criminal record and current offense seriousness). However, even when consideration was confined to those analyses employing key controls and precise measures of key variables, statistically significant but statistically small differences in sentencing outcomes persisted.

Again, though, this is sentencing, not policing.

a reply to: UKTruth

Sure.

But again you fail to draw the correlation between the social racism you speak of and policy and sentencing.

So when you throw in inept police the issue becomes even worse.

Can you defend American policing standards?

Do you think powerful police unions help or hurt the police standards?

Do you think being out of shape contributeso to bad decisions by officers who are struggling with their conditioning and adrenaline dumps?

How easy is it to shoot when your out of breath?

How often ate they rotated from high risk patrols for their mental safety?

Are they paid well enough to not need bribes to survive?

Are the higher political aspects of law enforcement corrupted like in Chicago.


Are they aiding in illegal behavior in the black market?

I don't really care if they are targeting blacks consciously by a quOta. The pRobles is in fact poor police officers are on the streets. Not just the bad ones. Officers who have no business being a first responder and obese or stressed to the level of a psychological break.

And I think after dealing with the social failure they also may become jaded and prescribe blame where it is more complicated than they understand.

originally posted by: Sillyolme
a reply to: 3daysgone

The 49ers originated the protest. They knew they would kneel. It was guaranteed. It was a staged show because trump lives in a reality tv show.

And? I am just glad he supports the National Anthem.