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Is God Evil???

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posted on Jun, 26 2017 @ 11:32 AM
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originally posted by: ChesterJohn
a reply to: EasternShadow

It is the same person, her seed is Jesus Christ.

If you trust any other you will never make it into the third Heaven.


I trust in God. I dont trust Human who make God.
I trust in One God become Human to save us. I dont trust Human to become God and split into three modes.
I trust in 10 Commandments. I dont trust in fairy tale witten by unverified authors who claim from God.
I trust in creation and clarity and everything is made to be understood by God for God does not and never deceive.
I trust God who speak in parables and metaphoric rhetoric isnt God but Satan. For God will never ever misguided his Sons with puzzling misinterpreted stupid contradicting words.
I trust God will never segregrated us. Only Satan offer Power and Wealth to divide and conquer human.
I trust God in creation of Universe and our purpose is appreciation of God's universe AS A Whole and not just Earth.
I trust in God that Life on Earth has a purpose and as sacred as Heaven. I dont trust Human words that Life on Earth is merely a stepping stone for purely spiritual Heaven.
I trust in Heaven as I trust in God, in the 10 Commandments and in self realization of justice and love, The rightenous of equality and compromization and forgiving others. I do not trust paradox human interpretation who contradicted here and there.

If my trust in God isnt suffient to earn my place in Heaven, then let Hell be my eternal resting place, because I have already suffer enough in Earthly Hell. It makes no different. But If I am to be given a choice, I would rather sleep forever into nothingness. And this is my testimony in front you, so you may come to testify on my behalf at Judgement Day.

Do you agree?


edit on 26-6-2017 by EasternShadow because: (no reason given)




posted on Jun, 26 2017 @ 01:29 PM
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a reply to: JoshuaCox

God is Good.



posted on Jun, 27 2017 @ 10:56 AM
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originally posted by: EhYehEsherEhYeh
a reply to: JoshuaCox

God is Good.



Evil is separate from God?


Doesn't that make God limited and not what the concept is suppose to be?

God is suppose to be all powerful, all knowing and all encompassing.

God is everything.

Is God not everything in your opinion or beliefs?



posted on Jun, 28 2017 @ 11:02 AM
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a reply to: EasternShadow

I wont need to testify of your words for they are recorded in heaven and you will stand to answer for them.

The Preserved word of God is verifiable to be the words of God. All others versions are deceptions of being Gods word but in reality are the creation of men to form to their theology and their unfaithfulness and creating god in their likeness.

and you are correct the 10 commandments and your belief in God are not sufficient enough to get you into God's Heaven. There is no eternal sleep either. Only the bodies of saved men are referred to as sleeping in the Preserved word of God.



posted on Jun, 28 2017 @ 02:14 PM
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originally posted by: ChesterJohn
The Preserved word of God is verifiable to be the words of God. All others versions are deceptions of being Gods word but in reality are the creation of men to form to their theology and their unfaithfulness and creating god in their likeness.

No. The words of God have been lost a long time ago. The apostles and those who witnessed them were cruxified, burnt alive and stabbed to death. None survived. Nothing preserved. The Church has changed. All versions now and then are nothing more than a philoshophy of paganism with adopted doctrine of gnoctism invented by the Roman-Greco gentiles. Caesar Constantine wasnt even a christian until his last breath. And all those biblical writings are by various unknown writers who cannot be identified historically. So why should I trust words from man who dont even believe in God himself like Constantine and The Council of Nicea? They are not words of God. They are words of Satan.


originally posted by: ChesterJohn
and you are correct the 10 commandments and your belief in God are not sufficient enough to get you into God's Heaven. There is no eternal sleep either. Only the bodies of saved men are referred to as sleeping in the Preserved word of God.

There is only either eternal life or second death. Whatever. As I said I dont care Hell as it makes no difference.

Believe what you will. You choose to have faith in the words of man. I choose to remain skeptic unless truth is absolute. You choose to be deceived by Heretic pagan under the name of Nicene Creed and the False Bible. I choose to be faithful to one and only God written words, the stone tablet of 10 commandments. You choose to risk your fate with the Nicene Creed. I choose to risk my fate with Moses's Law. You are confidence with your faith. And so do I.

I am not responsible should you are declared Heretic and deceived by the Judge. Neither should you be responsible if I am to suffer the same fate. We both know God is all knowing past, present and future. He will decide. Until then, dont pretend as if you are saved and pure of sin. You know nothing about salvation because you believe in 2000 years lies of heretic gentiles Churches . Neither do I claim myself know. For only Jesus can verify the truth. Not you.

Sorry if you are offended by my harsh words. I'm not intend to. But I'm telling you the truth, just as your are telling the same to me.

Peace.


edit on 28-6-2017 by EasternShadow because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 30 2017 @ 05:27 PM
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a reply to: EasternShadow

eternal life through faith in Jesus Christ's finished work on the cross as a ransom for many or the second death whichis the lake of fire.

the choice is yours and yours alone.



posted on Jul, 1 2017 @ 03:50 AM
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originally posted by: EasternShadow
Believe what you will. You choose to have faith in the words of man. I choose to remain skeptic unless truth is absolute.

Just to remind you, all the arguments you use against the bible's credibility have been used before by men (bible critics). Or to use your terminology, "the words of man". Including your promotion of the philosophy of vagueness, first mentioned and demonstrated in the bible by Pontius Pilate in his insincere question to Jesus:

What is truth?

As if you can't figure it out for certain anyway (that's why I call it the philosophy of vagueness, it obscures what is true and what is false, makes it more gray figuratively, and foggy, unclear; which helps a lot if one wants to obscure things and keep people in ignorance about what is both true and false*, as well as giving things your own spin, see video at the end of this comment). That was the point he was making but not spelling out and the reason Jesus didn't answer him. Don't expect any answer to any of your questions if you're not looking for definitive answers cause you don't believe they even exist or can be discovered or figured out (definitively, conclusively, with 100% certainty).


You know nothing about salvation because you believe in 2000 years lies of heretic gentiles Churches . Neither do I claim myself know. For only Jesus can verify the truth. ... But I'm telling you the truth, just as your are telling the same to me.


Can you be more clear about whether or not you are capable of dispensing the truth about God or salvation by God or not? How could you be telling the truth if you just said that only Jesus can do that (or is the keyword "verify the truth")? Or if you claim you don't know it (for certain) regarding a particular subject? Did you mean to say:

"I'm telling you what I believe to be true, just as you're doing."

Notice what Jesus said about the subject of 'knowing the truth' (referring to the truths/facts/realities/certainties about God) to his disciples at John 8:31,32:

Then Jesus went on to say to the Jews who had believed him: “If you remain in my word, you are really my disciples, 32 and you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.”

If you don't really know this particular truth that Jesus was referring to, you can't really be his disciple and you haven't been set free (from the lies and deception that Satan promotes about these subjects, including all counterfeit forms of Christianity or following Christ, counterfeit forms of 'remaining in his word'). You would more likely fall under the type of people described by Jesus here in Matthew 7:

21 “Not everyone saying to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter into the Kingdom of the heavens, but only the one doing the will of my Father who is in the heavens will. 22 Many will say to me in that day: ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and expel demons in your name, and perform many powerful works in your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them: ‘I never knew you! Get away from me, you workers of lawlessness!’

*: which helps a lot if one wants to obscure things and keep people in ignorance about what is both true and false; with that I'm referring to how it works against doing this effectively and correctly:

Hebrews 5:11-14

11 We have much to say about him, and it is difficult to explain, because you have become dull in your hearing. 12 For although by now you should be teachers, you again need someone to teach you from the beginning the elementary things of the sacred pronouncements of God, and you have gone back to needing milk, not solid food. 13 For everyone who continues to feed on milk is unacquainted with the word of righteousness, for he is a young child. 14 But solid food belongs to mature people, to those who through use have their powers of discernment trained to distinguish both right and wrong.

Note that synonyms for right and wrong are true and false. I used the synonyms in my comment.

edit on 1-7-2017 by whereislogic because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 1 2017 @ 05:51 AM
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a reply to: EasternShadow
edit previous comment where I said: "How could you be telling the truth if you just said that only Jesus can do that (or is the keyword "verify the truth")? Or if you claim you don't know it (for certain) regarding a particular subject?"

I meant how can I be sure or how can I know* if you're telling the truth if....etc.

*: Or how am I to figure out how much value to attribute to your words? (in terms of truthfulness, accuracy, correctness) If you say you don't know it, what use are your words to me or anyone else here if you present it as "truth"? (the parts you present as supposedly being truthful/factual/correct, without error, whether or not you spell it out as such or only describe it as "I'm telling you the truth" while at the same time arguing or implying in your words that you believe that truth is not absolute, a contradiction in terms).

Synonyms for factual:

truthful
absolute
correct, without error
certain
conclusive
definitive
edit on 1-7-2017 by whereislogic because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 1 2017 @ 05:57 AM
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originally posted by: whereislogic
Just to remind you, all the arguments you use against the bible's credibility have been used before by men (bible critics). Or to use your terminology, "the words of man". Including your promotion of the philosophy of vagueness, first mentioned and demonstrated in the bible by Pontius Pilate in his insincere question to Jesus:

What is truth?

As if you can't figure it out for certain anyway (that's why I call it the philosophy of vagueness, it obscures what is true and what is false, makes it more gray figuratively, and foggy, unclear; which helps a lot if one wants to obscure things and keep people in ignorance about what is both true and false*, as well as giving things your own spin, see video at the end of this comment). That was the point he was making but not spelling out and the reason Jesus didn't answer him. Don't expect any answer to any of your questions if you're not looking for definitive answers cause you don't believe they even exist or can de discovered or figured out (definitively, conclusively, with 100% certainty).

Who wrote the Gospels? Who teach Trinity? Who copy the Sumerian stories of creation and called it Genesis? The definite answer is The Bible lack credibility to be justified as objectively truth.


originally posted by: whereislogic
Can you be more clear about whether or not you are capable of dispensing the truth about God or salvation by God or not? How could you be telling the truth if you just said that only Jesus can do that (or is the keyword "verify the truth")? Or if you claim you don't know it (for certain) regarding a particular subject? Did you mean to say:

"I'm telling you what I believe to be true, just as you're doing."

Notice what Jesus said about the subject of 'knowing the truth' (referring to the truths/facts/realities/certainties about God) to his disciples at John 8:31,32:

Then Jesus went on to say to the Jews who had believed him: “If you remain in my word, you are really my disciples, 32 and you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.”

If you don't really know this particular truth that Jesus was referring to, you can't really be his disciple and you haven't been set free (from the lies and deception that Satan promotes about these subjects, including all counterfeit forms of Christianity or following Christ, counterfeit forms of 'remaining in his word'). You would more likely fall under the type of people described by Jesus here in Matthew 7:


Yes this particular truth is, Jesus's words was preached by man who kept whores in their houses, massacred their fellow priests to be a pointiff, involved in centuries shameful scandals, justify the killing of millions etc..And recently abusing children sexually. They even teach people how evil God is. So who else is Jesus referring "to workers of lawlessness"? Your own teachers acted morally ambigious, switched alliances when it suited them during the time of turbulance and committed so much crime against humanity in the past and present.

Everything you quote me, reflect back at what happen in the past to your teachers whose left hand hugging a whore while right hand holding a Bible.
And you wish me to follow their "Words of God."

To Hell with them.


edit on 1-7-2017 by EasternShadow because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 1 2017 @ 06:41 AM
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originally posted by: EasternShadow
Who wrote the Gospels?

There's extensive research material on this subject with accompanying evidence that the books that are referred to as "the Gospels" in some circles were written by the men whose names these Gospels bear and that they were written under divine inspiration by God's holy spirit (I guess you can seperate those claims into 2 subjects). But this material does not 'tickle your ears' so you haven't looked into it so far, only the arguments of those who argue against it. With this behaviour you are demonstrating 2 Timothy 4:3,4 (and the reliability and credibility of the bible as well as demonstrating the same behavioural pattern as the one you were arguing with):

For there will be a period of time when they will not put up with the wholesome* teaching, but according to their own desires, they will surround themselves with teachers to have their ears tickled.* 4 They will turn away from listening to the truth and give attention to false stories.

1st *: Or “healthful; beneficial.”
2nd *: Or “to tell them what they want to hear.”


Who teach Trinity?

Trinitarians and Pagans (Babylonians, Egyptians, Greek philosophers and the Brahmin from the area that is nowadays called India and Iran, those giving rise to Buddhism and Hinduism and what is called "eastern philosophy"), it's not taught in the bible. Not by Paul, not by John, not by Jesus, nowhere. It's a doctrine that is taught by Babylon the Great in various forms and variations. Even fans of withcraft and wicca are familiar with it (take for example the symbol of the triquetra, you can google that one if you're unfamiliar with it). Again, it provides evidence of the reliability of the bible when it comes to the scriptures about Babylon the Great, false prophets, hypocrisy and various other accompanying behaviour and where these philosophies originated and how they spread (also an interesting piece of evidence in relation to this subject is by what tools or mechanisms they spread within Christendom, torture and death penalties, burning at the stake, political pressure, etc.).

Yes this particular truth is, Jesus's words was preached by man who kept whores in their houses, massacred their fellow priests to be a pointiff, involved in centuries shameful scandals, justify the killing of millions etc..And recently abusing children sexually. They even teach people how evil God is. So who else is Jesus referring "to workers of lawlessness"?

The bible indeed gives ample warning and descriptions of these religious leaders and teachers. Adding again to the pile of evidence available for its reliability in describing and predicting human behaviour in relation to the truths about God. Leaving a trail of breadcrumbs (historical documentation and archeological finds) that traces back to Babylon and thus making the fitting description of Babylon the Great that is well discussed in the book of Revelation very appropiate (more evidence again of what's really going on, what the real Matrix is that people who like to use the term Matrix as a controlling system aren't noticing or mentioning in detail in the way the bible does).

Your own teachers acted morally ambigious, switched alliances when it suited them during the time of turbulance and committed so much crime against humanity in the past and present.

Everything you quote me, reflect back at what happen in the past to your teachers whose left hand hugged a whore while right hand holding a Bible.
And you wish me to follow their "Words of God."

They are not my teachers. Most of my commentary on ATS is focussed on exposing their falsehoods (incorrect teachings) and showing what the bible really teaches that contradicts what they taught (and others nowadays are still teaching or adhering to, expressing their belief therein). Christendom is not Christianity. That's becoming a bit of a catchphrase for me lately.

To Hell with them.


Anyway:
What the h*ll is HELL anyway? Are you going there?

Oh and when considering the conspiracy or deception indoctrinated in the masses by Babylon the Great, don't forget the biggest conspiracy of them all which is the whole point of all the other deceptions including the doctrine of the Trinity described in Jeremiah 23:27,28:

They intend to make my people forget my name by the dreams they relate to one another, just as their fathers forgot my name because of Baʹal. 28 Let the prophet who has a dream relate the dream, but the one who has my word should speak my word truthfully.” “What does the straw have in common with the grain?” declares Jehovah.

Hiding in plain sight is a popular tactic regarding the name "Jehovah" as well. Notice this particular tactic used by the NIV translators after 3:00 in this video:


edit on 1-7-2017 by whereislogic because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 1 2017 @ 07:00 AM
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originally posted by: whereislogic
a reply to: EasternShadow
edit previous comment where I said: "How could you be telling the truth if you just said that only Jesus can do that (or is the keyword "verify the truth")? Or if you claim you don't know it (for certain) regarding a particular subject?"

I meant how can I be sure or how can I know* if you're telling the truth if....etc.

*: Or how am I to figure out how much value to attribute to your words? (in terms of truthfulness, accuracy, correctness) If you say you don't know it, what use are your words to me or anyone else here if you present it as "truth"? (the parts you present as supposedly being truthful/factual/correct, without error, whether or not you spell it out as such or only describe it as "I'm telling you the truth" while at the same time arguing or implying in your words that you believe that truth is not absolute, a contradiction in terms).


Jesus is the one who teach salvation in first place, so how can he not know?
And as for John the apostle or was it John the evangalist? I know they are not the same person. One is the real eyewitness while the other is a fictional figure as placeholder to this questionable "the beloved disciple of Jesus" ADDED later in the Gospels. Therefore I know the Gospel has been tampered by man, most probably a gentile who believe in 3 Gods to suit themselves. I know my truth. So do you. After more than 2000 years of debating the same truth over and over again, even Pontius Pilate himself is tired of "What is Truth?" Only you yourself know the truth. Because you believe in it. Otherwise it is not the truth. Everyone seek truth in their own perception when it comes to faith.
edit on 1-7-2017 by EasternShadow because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 1 2017 @ 07:23 AM
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a reply to: EasternShadow
This video sums up some of the descriptions in the bible regarding these subjects and the people you have been describing within Christendom (and again I'm providing this information as evidence for the reliability of the bible in correctly warning for these people and how to tell right from wrong, true from false, how to guard against deception by Babylon the Great and in particular the part that is called Christendom):



posted on Jul, 1 2017 @ 07:32 AM
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originally posted by: whereislogic
There's extensive research material on this subject with accompanying evidence that the books that are referred to as "the Gospels" in some circles were written by the men whose names these Gospels bear and that they were written under divine inspiration by God's holy spirit (I guess you can seperate those claims into 2 subjects). But this material does not 'tickle your ears' so you haven't looked into it so far, only the arguments of those who argue against it. With this behaviour you are demonstrating 2 Timothy 4:3,4 (and the reliability and credibility of the bible as well as demonstrating the same behavioural pattern as the one you were arguing with):

For there will be a period of time when they will not put up with the wholesome* teaching, but according to their own desires, they will surround themselves with teachers to have their ears tickled.* 4 They will turn away from listening to the truth and give attention to false stories.

1st *: Or “healthful; beneficial.”
2nd *: Or “to tell them what they want to hear.”

Hearing the truth from who? From John the apostle or John the Evagelist? I'm fine with John the apostle. I have a problem with John the evangelist. I have no problem with third person narrative by John the apostle. I have big problem with first person narrative who claimed to be "the beloved apostle of Jesus," who suddenly appear out of nowhere in the ending paasage. Why it is a problem for me? It's a problem because the Gospels is authored by not a single person it is attributed to but by many. I have a problem with fictional account by this "beloved disciple of Jesus" who happen to discredit the entire Gospel witnessed by John the apostle . I dont have to listen to anyone. I read it myself the sudden changes in narrative perspectives, even John himself was antonished at "this beloved discipled" of Jesus and John was beside Jesus. The inconsistencies exist in every Gospels including Genesis etc..And I am not the only one who notice it. You still want to know what truth is? The Gospels are "word of man". But you already know others have spoken that too.


originally posted by: whereislogic
Trinitarians and Pagans (Babylonians, Egyptians, Greek philosophers and the Brahmin from the area that is nowadays called India and Iran, those giving rise to Buddhism and Hinduism and what is called "eastern philosophy"), it's not taught in the bible. Not by Paul, not by John, not by Jesus, nowhere. It's a doctrine that is taught by Babylon the Great in various forms and variations. Even fans of withcraft and wicca are familiar with it (take for example the symbol of the triquetra, you can google that one if you're unfamiliar with it). Again, it provides evidence of the reliability of the bible when it comes to the scriptures about Babylon the Great, false prophets, hypocrisy and various other accompanying behaviour and where these philosophies originated and how they spread (also an interesting piece of evidence in relation to this subject is by what tools or mechanisms they spread within Christendom, torture and death penalties, burning at the stake, political pressure, etc.)

There you go. It's the truth I am talking about.



originally posted by: whereislogic
The bible indeed gives ample warning and descriptions of these religious leaders and teachers. Adding again to the pile of evidence available for its reliability in describing and predicting human behaviour in relation to the truths about God. Leaving a trail of breadcrumbs (historical documentation and archeological finds) that traces back to Babylon and thus making the fitting description of Babylon the Great that is well discussed in the book of Revelation very appropiate (more evidence again of what's really going on, what the real Matrix is that people who like to use the term Matrix as a controlling system aren't noticing or mentioning in detail in the way the bible does).

Those warning have been ignored by those who preached them. So why bother to listen to them?



originally posted by: whereislogic
They are not my teachers. Most of my commentary on ATS is focussed on exposing their falsehoods (incorrect teachings) and showing what the bible really teaches that contradicts what they taught (and others nowadays are still teaching or adhering to, expressing their belief therein). Christendom is not Christianity. That's becoming a bit of a catchphrase for me lately.

So what is the truth again? The truth is there before your own eyes.



originally posted by: whereislogic

Anyway:
What the h*ll is HELL anyway? Are you going there?

I dont believe in Hell. It's for the priests who preach them. Sorry, it wasnt meant to you. I said it for "them".
edit on 1-7-2017 by EasternShadow because: (no reason given)

edit on 1-7-2017 by EasternShadow because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 1 2017 @ 01:44 PM
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originally posted by: whereislogic
a reply to: EasternShadow
This video sums up some of the descriptions in the bible regarding these subjects and the people you have been describing within Christendom (and again I'm providing this information as evidence for the reliability of the bible in correctly warning for these people and how to tell right from wrong, true from false, how to guard against deception by Babylon the Great and in particular the part that is called Christendom):


Thank you for the video. It's something refreshing and well thought. I cant add much too it.

But I offer you something else in return:

The secret account of the revelation that Jesus spoke in conversation with Judas Iscariot during a week three days before he celebrated Passover.




SCENE 1: Jesus dialogues with his disciples: The prayer of thanksgiving or the eucharist

One day he was with his disciples in Judea, and he found them gathered together and seated in pious observance. When he [approached] his disciples, [34] gathered together and seated and offering a prayer of thanksgiving over the bread, [he] laughed.

The disciples said to [him], "Master, why are you laughing at [our] prayer of thanksgiving? We have done what is right."

He answered and said to them, "I am not laughing at you. are not doing this because of your own will but because it is through this that your god [will be] praised."

They said, "Master, you are […] the son of our god."

Jesus said to them, "How do you know me? Truly [I] say to you, no generation of the people that are among you will know me."

When his disciples heard this, they started getting angry and infuriated and began blaspheming against him in their hearts.

When Jesus observed their lack of [understanding, he said] to them, "Why has this agitation led you to anger? Your god who is within you and […] [35] have provoked you to anger [within] your souls. [Let] any one of you who is [strong enough] among human beings bring out the perfect human and stand before my face."

They all said, "We have the strength."

But their spirits did not dare to stand before [him]
, except for Judas Iscariot. He was able to stand before him, but he could not look him in the eyes, and he turned his face away.

Judas [said] to him, "I know who you are and where you have come from. You are from the immortal realm of Barbelo. And I am not worthy to utter the name of the one who has sent you."

Knowing that Judas was reflecting upon something that was exalted, Jesus said to him, "Step away from the others and I shall tell you the mysteries of the kingdom. It is possible for you to reach it, but you will grieve a great deal. [36] For someone else will replace you, in order that the twelve [disciples] may again come to completion with their god."

Judas said to him, "When will you tell me these things, and [when] will the great day of light dawn for the generation?"

But when he said this, Jesus left him.




THE DISCIPLES SEE THE TEMPLE AND DISCUSS IT

They [said, "We have seen] a great [house with a large] altar [in it, and] twelve men — they are the priests, we would say — and a name;
and a crowd of people is waiting at that altar, [until] the priests [. . . and receive] the offerings. [But] we kept waiting."

[Jesus said], "What are [the priests] like?"

They [said, "Some ...] two weeks; [some] sacrifice their own children, others their wives, in praise [and] humility with each other; some sleep with men; some are involved in [slaughter]; some commit a multitude of sins and deeds of lawlessness. And the men who stand [before] the altar invoke your [name], [39] and in all the deeds of their deficiency, the sacrifices are brought to completion [. . .]."

After they said this, they were quiet, for they were troubled.



JESUS OFFERS AN ALLEGORICAL INTERPRETATION OF THE VISION OF THE TEMPLE

Jesus said to them,

"Why are you troubled? Truly I say to you, all the priests who stand before that altar invoke my name. Again I say to you, my name has been written on this [. . .] of the generations of the stars through the human generations. [And they] have planted trees without fruit, in my name, in a shameful manner."

Jesus said to them,"Those you have seen receiving the offerings at the altar-^hat is who you are. That is the god you serve, and you are those twelve men you have seen. The cattle you have seen brought for sacrifice are the many people you lead astray [40] before that altar. [. . .] will stand and make use of my name in this way, and generations of the pious will remain loyal to him. After him another man will stand there from [the fornicators], and another [will] stand there from the slayers of children, and another from those who sleep with men, and those who abstain, and the rest of the people of pollution and lawlessness and error, and those who say, 'We are like angels'; they are the stars that bring everything to its conclusion. For to the human generations it has been said,
'Look, God has received your sacrifice from the hands of a priest'— that is, a minister of error. But it is the Lord, the Lord of the universe, who commands, 'On the last day they will be put to shame.'"



Translated by Rodolphe Kasser, Marvin Meyer, and Gregor Wurst, in collaboration with François Gaudard

The Gospel of Judas

What is truth? You decide.
edit on 1-7-2017 by EasternShadow because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 1 2017 @ 11:09 PM
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a reply to: EasternShadow

Gospel is the standard term for the first four books of the [so-called] New Testament [I call this part of the bible "the Christian Greek Scriptures" because "New Testament" is a misleading inaccurate term], describing the life, death, and resurrection of Jesus of Nazareth, although it has [been used with] a wider meaning...

Source: wikipedia (between brackets is mine)

These 4 so-called gospels, Matthew, Mark, Luke and John, are generally not attributed to one person (unless you mean Jehovah God with that person but that still doesn't negate who wrote these books, they were written by 4 people who were inspired by God's holy spirit). "Gospel" is actually just the Hebrew word for "good news". Sometimes this word is not translated in English bible translations for similar reasons the term "hallelujah" isn't translated to the English: "praise Jah!". To keep people in the dark about what this good news is about wherever it is spoken of in the bible (the good news of the kingdom of God) and so they can swap in their own 'gospel' and make arguments like Paul Washer is doing in the video below:

It has been my observation that those who argue that the books in the bible are inconsistent have great difficulty in remaining honest with their argumentation for this. Misrepresenting what the bible is saying, cherry-picking bad translations that are conducive for their arguments, conveniently misinterpreting what the bible is saying in one place to prove it's inconsistent with something said elsewhere in the bible, stubbornly not accepting or considering any honest answers to their challenges in any reasonable openminded fashion per the description in 2 Timothy 4:3,4, making no effort to gain an understanding of what it's really teaching that is not inconsistent or making no effort to notice the straw man arguments or straw man versions of what the bible is supposedly teaching or saying that they are using, etc. Most glaring of all (or in all this) is the lack of knowledge and understanding that they are displaying about what the bible is really teaching and how some verses are to be understood so that they are not inconsistent with one another. To let the bible interpret the bible (one part of it elaborating or explaining another part and not using human interpretation that ends up being inconsistent with what is said elsewhere, which is common behaviour among Trinitarians, see previous video for an example).



posted on Jul, 1 2017 @ 11:37 PM
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a reply to: EasternShadow
Sorry if this is a bit too long or too much info. But the end-conclusion is the most important and one needs the rest of the information to reach that conclusion.
What Is the “Gospel of Judas”?

IN April 2006, newspapers worldwide carried the startling story that a team of scholars was releasing to the public the contents of a newly discovered ancient text entitled “Gospel of Judas.” These articles referred to scholarly claims that this text revolutionizes understanding of the figure of Judas, the disciple who betrayed Jesus. According to such claims, Judas was actually a hero, the apostle who best understood Jesus, delivering him for execution at Jesus’ request.

Is this text authentic? And if so, does it reveal some previously hidden knowledge regarding the historical figures Judas Iscariot, Jesus Christ, or early Christians? Should it affect our understanding of Christianity?

THE DISCOVERY OF THE “GOSPEL OF JUDAS”

How the “Gospel of Judas” was discovered remains somewhat uncertain. Rather than being discovered and documented by archaeologists, the document abruptly appeared on the antiquities market in the late 1970’s or early 1980’s. It was likely discovered in Egypt in 1978 in an abandoned tomb, possibly within a cave.
...
A few scholars were briefly shown the codex in 1983; but the asking price was exorbitant, and no sale was made. Further years of neglect and improper storage led to accelerated deterioration of the codex.
...

THE “GOSPEL OF JUDAS”—A GNOSTIC GOSPEL

The first mention of the existence of a work called the “Gospel of Judas” is found in the writings of Irenaeus, a professed Christian author of the late second century C.E. In a work called Against Heresies, Irenaeus writes concerning one of the many groups whose teachings he opposed: “They declare that Judas the traitor was thoroughly acquainted with these things, and that he alone, knowing the truth as none of the others did, accomplished the mystery of the betrayal. By him all things, both earthly and heavenly, were thus thrown into confusion. They produce a fictitious history of this kind, which they entitle the Gospel of Judas.”

Irenaeus was especially intent on refuting various teachings of Gnostic Christians, who claimed that they held revealed inner knowledge. Gnosticism is an umbrella term encompassing many groups, all with their own understanding and interpretation of Christian “truth.” Gnostics advanced interpretations based on their own writings, which proliferated during the second century C.E.

Such Gnostic gospels often claimed that the prominent apostles of Jesus misunderstood his message and that there is a secret teaching that Jesus passed on that was understood by only a select few. * Some of those Gnostics believed that the physical world was a prison. Therefore, the “creator god” of the Hebrew Scriptures was actually a lesser god who was opposed to the various perfect gods. One with true “knowledge” understood this “secret” and sought release from physical existence.

That is the approach reflected in the “Gospel of Judas.” It opens with the words: “The secret word of declaration by which Jesus spoke in conversation with Judas Iscariot, during eight days, three days before he celebrated Passover.”

Was this codex the very text that Irenaeus had written about, which for centuries was presumed lost? Marvin Meyer, a member of the initial team that analyzed and translated this codex, says that Irenaeus’ “brief description fits quite well the present Coptic text entitled the Gospel of Judas.”

THE FIGURE OF JUDAS IN THIS GOSPEL—A DEBATE AMONG SCHOLARS

In the “Gospel of Judas,” Jesus laughs scornfully when his disciples display their lack of proper knowledge. But Judas is the only one of the 12 apostles who shows an understanding of Jesus’ true nature. Therefore, Jesus privately shares with him “the mysteries of the kingdom.”

The initial textual reconstruction by the team of scholars was heavily influenced by Irenaeus’ description of the gospel. In their translation, Judas is favored by Jesus as the one disciple who would understand the mysteries and “reach” the “kingdom.” The misled apostles would name a replacement for Judas, but he would then become the “thirteenth spirit,” which would “exceed all [the other disciples]” because, says Jesus, “you will sacrifice the man that clothes me.”

Best-selling authors, such as Bart Ehrman and Elaine Pagels, who are also prominent scholars of early Christianity and Gnosticism, quickly published their own analyses and commentaries of the “Gospel of Judas” that substantially followed the textual reconstruction by the original team. However, shortly thereafter, other scholars, such as April DeConick and Birger Pearson, expressed concern. They claimed that in its bid for a media exclusive, the National Geographic Society rushed the publication of the ancient text. Additionally, the normal academic process of thorough analysis and prepublication peer review was bypassed, as the team was required to sign nondisclosure agreements.

None of the scholars who analyzed this text claim that it contains accurate historical information.

Working independently, DeConick and Pearson both concluded that some of the key sections of the fragmentary codex had been mistranslated by the previous scholars. According to DeConick’s reconstruction of the text, Jesus calls Judas the “Thirteenth Demon,” not the “thirteenth spirit.” * Jesus also tells Judas unequivocally that he will not ascend to the “kingdom.” Rather than ‘exceeding’ the other disciples, Jesus says to Judas: “You will do worse than all of them. For the man that clothes me, you will sacrifice him.” In DeConick’s view, the “Gospel of Judas” is an ancient Gnostic parody that mocks all the apostles. The definitive conclusion held by DeConick and Pearson is that in this “Gospel of Judas,” Judas is no hero.

WHAT CAN WE LEARN FROM THE “GOSPEL OF JUDAS”?

Whether they viewed the Judas of this gospel as a hero or a demon, none of the scholars who analyzed this text claim that it contains accurate historical information. Bart Ehrman explains: “It is not a Gospel written by Judas, or one that even claims to be. . . . It is not a Gospel written in Judas’s own time by someone who actually knew him . . . It is not a book, therefore, that will provide us with additional information about what actually happened in Jesus’ lifetime.”

The “Gospel of Judas” is a Gnostic text from the second century C.E., originally written in Greek. Whether this newly discovered “Gospel of Judas” is identical to the text that Irenaeus referred to remains a matter of scholarly debate. But the “Gospel of Judas” clearly offers important evidence only regarding a period in which “Christianity” had become fractured and divided by many competing sects and doctrines. Rather than undermining Scripture, the “Gospel of Judas” actually confirms apostolic warnings, such as that of Paul recorded at Acts 20:29, 30: “I know that after my going away . . . from among you yourselves men will rise and speak twisted things to draw away the disciples after themselves.”

* Footnote: These gospels are often named after the ones who are alleged to have better understood Jesus’ true teachings, as is the case with the “Gospel of Thomas” and the “Gospel of Mary Magdalene.” In all, about 30 such ancient writings have been identified.

edit on 1-7-2017 by whereislogic because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 1 2017 @ 11:59 PM
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a reply to: EasternShadow
I overlooked the 2nd footnote (I was out of space anyway):

The scholars who adopt the view that Judas is a demon in this text—one who understood Jesus’ identity better than the other disciples—note its similarity to the way the demons in the Gospel accounts of the Bible accurately proclaimed Jesus’ identity.—Mark 3:11; 5:7.

Mark 3:11

Even the unclean spirits, whenever they saw him, would fall down before him and cry out and say: “You are the Son of God.”

Notice that they say "You are the Son of God", not "You are God."

5:7,8

Then he cried out with a loud voice: “What have I to do with you, Jesus, Son of the Most High God? I put you under oath by God not to torment me.” 8 For Jesus had been saying to it: “Come out of the man, you unclean spirit.”

edit on 2-7-2017 by whereislogic because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 2 2017 @ 05:11 AM
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originally posted by: whereislogic
These 4 so-called gospels, Matthew, Mark, Luke and John, are generally not attributed to one person (unless you mean Jehovah God with that person but that still doesn't negate who wrote these books, they were written by 4 people who were inspired by God's holy spirit).

4 anonymous or more people.


originally posted by: whereislogic
To keep people in the dark about what this good news is about wherever it is spoken of in the bible (the good news of the kingdom of God) and so they can swap in their own 'gospel'

To keep people in the dark about what is actual behind the "good news." There are many gospels before and after the 4 canons. Yet none can be objectively credited to the supposed authors. Orthodox tradition may comfortably account such Gospels to the authorship of the apsotles. But that view doesnt universally true.


originally posted by: whereislogic
It has been my observation that those who argue that the books in the bible are inconsistent have great difficulty in remaining honest with their argumentation for this. Misrepresenting what the bible is saying, cherry-picking bad translations that are conducive for their arguments, conveniently misinterpreting what the bible is saying in one place to prove it's inconsistent with something said elsewhere in the bible, stubbornly not accepting or considering any honest answers to their challenges in any reasonable openminded fashion per the description in 2 Timothy 4:3,4, making no effort to gain an understanding of what it's really teaching that is not inconsistent or making no effort to notice the straw man arguments or straw man versions of what the bible is supposedly teaching or saying that they are using, etc. Most glaring of all (or in all this) is the lack of knowledge and understanding that they are displaying about what the bible is really teaching and how some verses are to be understood so that they are not inconsistent with one another. To let the bible interpret the bible (one part of it elaborating or explaining another part and not using human interpretation that ends up being inconsistent with what is said elsewhere, which is common behaviour among Trinitarians, see previous video for an example).

And yet you have failed to observed the same attitude can be applied to those who preached the Bible themselves. Dishonesty, Misrepresenting what the bible is saying, cherry-picking translations, conveniently misinterpreting what the bible sayings etc.. are more common to priests than any scholars who study them. How many scholars have you observe to sexually abused children and yet preaching their holiness scriptures?

From my observation, scholars argue to find the truth. Priests and those who preach Bible, however, hide behind their Gospels to conceal their true moral value that is dishonesty and corruption. How many times do you hear a Bishop tells you to clean your soul through the gospels, while they themselves indulge in lawless activities?

As far as I have learn, this things happen since the early christians until now. And it's been more than 2000 years! Can you blame scholars for doubting this lawless preachers and their lawless Gospels? I have tried to be respectful, but the hipocracies in their mouth is too much. Scholars dont intrepret gospels to declare crusades on others. The one with the bible did that. Scholars dont justified the words of apostles to excuse themselve for lawless sins, the priest did that all the time. Deceiving virgins behind closed doors after meal and wine is common among early christian priests. Concealling crimes behind churches under the gospels is comon behaviour among priests. Sure, it doesnt negate the value of the Bible. But what value are those when it is not used lawfully by those who preach them?


originally posted by: whereislogic
What Is the “Gospel of Judas”?

They claimed that in its bid for a media exclusive, the National Geographic Society rushed the publication of the ancient text. Additionally, the normal academic process of thorough analysis and prepublication peer review was bypassed, as the team was required to sign nondisclosure agreements.

none of the scholars who analyzed this text claim that it contains accurate historical information.

You thought I havent research into such analyses? My previous statement was irrelavant to such analyses.


originally posted by: whereislogic
Mark 3:11; Mark 5:7-8

Mark doesnt refute Judas 34-36 and Judas 39,40.

Here let me repost the acuracy of Judas describing the behaviour of the priests for more than 2000 years.



[And they] have planted trees without fruit, in my name, in a shameful manner."

Jesus said to them,"Those you have seen receiving the offerings at the altar-^hat is who you are. That is the god you serve, and you are those twelve men you have seen. The cattle you have seen brought for sacrifice are the many people you lead astray [40] before that altar. [. . .] will stand and make use of my name in this way, and generations of the pious will remain loyal to him. After him another man will stand there from [the fornicators], and another [will] stand there from the slayers of children, and another from those who sleep with men, and those who abstain, and the rest of the people of pollution and lawlessness and error, and those who say, 'We are like angels'; they are the stars that bring everything to its conclusion. For to the human generations it has been said,'Look, God has received your sacrifice from the hands of a priest'— that is, a minister of error.

But it is the Lord, the Lord of the universe, who commands, 'On the last day they will be put to shame.'"


What is it Judas telling you here? He is not telling you to do demonics rituals.

He is telling you,
"those who say, 'We are like angels'; they are the stars that bring everything to its conclusion.

For to the human generations it has been said,'Look, God has received your sacrifice from the hands of a priest'— that is, a minister of error."





edit on 2-7-2017 by EasternShadow because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 3 2017 @ 06:50 AM
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a reply to: Raggedyman

What God are you referring to?
As long as you talk about the Jewish God, the ''Jewish book'' is all you have...
Christianity is just a heresy of Judaism. If you deny the roots of the old testament you have nothing.



posted on Jul, 3 2017 @ 09:10 AM
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originally posted by: Dr1Akula
a reply to: Raggedyman

What God are you referring to?
As long as you talk about the Jewish God, the ''Jewish book'' is all you have...
Christianity is just a heresy of Judaism. If you deny the roots of the old testament you have nothing.


Says you, and you are who exactly




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