Is God Evil???

a reply to: Raggedyman

Someone who obviously knows better!
Why don't you try to answer with arguments instead?

originally posted by: Dr1Akula
a reply to: Raggedyman

Someone who obviously knows better!
Why don't you try to answer with arguments instead?

Well,you obviously know better so what would be the point of arguing

and to be truthful I don't even understand your point
Are you saying I denied the Old Testament, where?

A fool would argue with a fool

a reply to: Raggedyman

I think he is saying that since the OT was the primary validation for Christianity. If the OT is discredited, then that in turn would discredit Christianity.

By making the majority of the OT invalid Jesus in a way discredited hims own claim to the throne.

Maybe?

a reply to: JoshuaCox

I think he is suggesting I invalidated the OT, I didn't, just the old covenant
Hoping if I push him to reread and restructure his argument he may comprehend the error

Or, just figuring he is looking for an argument

originally posted by: Raggedyman

originally posted by: Dr1Akula
a reply to: Raggedyman

Someone who obviously knows better!
Why don't you try to answer with arguments instead?

Well,you obviously know better so what would be the point of arguing

and to be truthful I don't even understand your point
Are you saying I denied the Old Testament, where?

A fool would argue with a fool

You are right only a fool would reply with this ''Says you, and you are who exactly'', to my sincere post
my answer was just what your rude reply deserved.

Arguing in discussions is the reason forums exist, but since you have that attitude I'll follow your advice and I won't bother arguing with a fool!

All the God stuff is invented by humans. The Universe is indifferent to our existence. It neither knows nor cares that we exist.

originally posted by: Raggedyman
a reply to: JoshuaCox

I think he is suggesting I invalidated the OT, I didn't, just the old covenant
Hoping if I push him to reread and restructure his argument he may comprehend the error

Or, just figuring he is looking for an argument

I got you..

Your saying Jesus reversing the Old covenant doesn't invalidate the OT...

And he is saying it does..

Right??

I think there are fair points on both sides..

Hypothetically, Jesus came to fix/change what the OT had wrong anyway. So I don't think him invalidating a lot of the OT discredits Christianity . Since that is kinda his whole point of comming..

But on the other hand , it is the validation for the messiah prophecy anyway.. no messiah prophecy, no Jesus.. from a Christian cannon pov anyway..

In reality the messiah prophecy wasn't central to Judaism nor did anyone think it referred to the son of God.

Messiah in Hebrew is not divine, it just means freed the Jews from captivity. Cyrus the great was a Jewish messiah.

Except the m

originally posted by: Dr1Akula

originally posted by: Raggedyman

originally posted by: Dr1Akula
a reply to: Raggedyman

Someone who obviously knows better!
Why don't you try to answer with arguments instead?

Well,you obviously know better so what would be the point of arguing

and to be truthful I don't even understand your point
Are you saying I denied the Old Testament, where?

A fool would argue with a fool

You are right only a fool would reply with this ''Says you, and you are who exactly'', to my sincere post
my answer was just what your rude reply deserved.

Arguing in discussions is the reason forums exist, but since you have that attitude I'll follow your advice and I won't bother arguing with a fool!

No Dr1, who are you and why do I care what you think.
Some internet troll? That would be my guess.

and no, I dont come here to argue with anyone, I dont enjoy arguing
I come here to learn and pass on what I think is valid

I have also learned to ignore people who say inflammatory stupid things like

originally posted by: Dr1Akula
As long as you talk about the Jewish God, the ''Jewish book'' is all you have...

Because its wrong

originally posted by: Dr1Akula
Christianity is just a heresy of Judaism.

Ludicrous comment

originally posted by: Dr1Akula
If you deny the roots of the old testament you have nothing.

Childish and ignorant

But I do understand where you are coming from, see I was like you once.

a reply to: Dr1Akula

I wonder if this isn't more of an issue of disclaimers.. or a lack there of..

Maybe it is people saying l..


"We know Jesus did or meant "X"... "

When what they meant to say was..


"I think or believe Jesus did X..."

originally posted by: JoshuaCox

originally posted by: Raggedyman
a reply to: JoshuaCox

I think he is suggesting I invalidated the OT, I didn't, just the old covenant
Hoping if I push him to reread and restructure his argument he may comprehend the error

Or, just figuring he is looking for an argument

I got you..

Your saying Jesus reversing the Old covenant doesn't invalidate the OT...

And he is saying it does..

Right??

I think there are fair points on both sides..

Hypothetically, Jesus came to fix/change what the OT had wrong anyway. So I don't think him invalidating a lot of the OT discredits Christianity . Since that is kinda his whole point of coming..

But on the other hand , it is the validation for the messiah prophecy anyway.. no messiah prophecy, no Jesus.. from a Christian cannon pov anyway..

In reality the messiah prophecy wasn't central to Judaism nor did anyone think it referred to the son of God.

Messiah in Hebrew is not divine, it just means freed the Jews from captivity. Cyrus the great was a Jewish messiah.

Except the m

Bit more to it than that
The old testament, historically is valid, the laws, still valid
"For verily I say unto you, Till. heaven and earth pass, one jot or one. tittle shall in no wise pass from. the law, till all be fulfilled."
I didnt suggest they were not valid or that it was wrong anywhere. Because it is valid and the laws are

Jesus came to set up a new kingdom, where those who so choose, could accept Him and receive salvation, by repentance and then works, in Him.

The law exists, justice for the law will be carried out, christians will be in Christs mercy seat when judgement is carried out.

And you are right right, Jesus didnt set the Jews free, because the Jews wanted earthly rewards, Jesus came to offer spiritual rewards, salvation, an end to sacrifice.
The Messiah prophecy was central to Judaism, it goes back to Genesis

jewsforjesus.org...

a reply to: Raggedyman

Christianity absolutely grew out of a Jewish heresy...


The vast majority of Jews didn't buy Jesus's story and he DIDNT match the messiah prophecy AT ALL!!

That said according to Christianity Jesus's whole point was correcting the inaccuracies and making changes to the old laws..

So hypothetically the Jews had the messiah prophecy wrong and that is what Jesus came to fix.

But at no time did Jews in the past or present think that a son of God was prophesied or that Jesus met the criteria of a messiah..

And I say "A messiah" because Judaism contains more than one messiah.. it is a title bestowed on multiple people.

a reply to: JoshuaCox

Jesus didnt change the old laws, no need for correction

"For verily I say unto you, Till. heaven and earth pass, one jot or one. tittle shall in no wise pass from. the law, till all be fulfilled."

And you might want to rethink this statement
"But at no time did Jews in the past or present think that a son of God was prophesied or that Jesus met the criteria of a messiah.. "
Because, bible, new testament, Paul, the apostles, jewsforjesus.org...
Plenty did and plenty still do

How can you not know that christianity started out in Israel and amongst the Jews, thats self evident, isnt it, surely?

JC I dont know your beliefs, but we are different, we disagree.
I will leave it at that.

a reply to: Raggedyman

If the old laws weren't invalidated then what happened to circumsision and eating pork???


What about being born a Jew or marry a Jew??



What about all of Leviticus's laws??

So obviously Jesus invalidated a lot of it.


That said what I meant about Jesus and the messiah prophecy is that by no Jewish interpretation BEFORE OR AFTER Jesus that makes Jesus a messiah..

The messiah prophecy being a central part of Judaism is uniquely Christian.

To any Jew then or now the messiah prophecy was not referring to a son of God..

There is no Jewish prophecy involving god sending his son.

The messiah prophecy isn't even just one guy..

It is s title bestowed on any who meet the criteria.

Cyrus the great being the oldest recorded messiah for freeing the Jews in Babylon.

It is referring to a herititary line of regular humans who will free the Jews from slavery and his children be kings of Israel that lead the jews into the future.

So in no way shape form or fashion was the Jewish prophecy talking about Jesus..

Like I said the prophecy could be wrong and Jesus was correcting it, but the way it is sold in Sunday school is Christian revionist history.

a reply to: Raggedyman

Jews for Jesus is Jews who have converted to Christianity.. not actual Jews..

Christianity adds Jews to a headline for credibility..

A Jew that believes Jesus matched the prophecy is not a Jew.. they are a Christian..

Ask any Jew anywhere or go to any Jewish site and it will tell you as much.

I'm about to drive or I would copy it from one of the many real jewish websites.

a reply to: JoshuaCox

Lets try it again
Old and existing covenant for non christians
"For verily I say unto you, Till. heaven and earth pass, one jot or one. tittle shall in no wise pass from. the law, till all be fulfilled."
Existing law for those outside of Christ.

New covenant for christians by Jesus
Mark 12:30-31

Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.' The second is this:‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ There is no commandment greater than these.”

Romans 5:8-10 puts it like this: Christ died for us, and because of his death we are now justified before God, saved from any fears of punishment and reconciled to God as one of his dearly loved children.

Love one another
…33Little children, I am with you only a little while longer. You will look for Me, and as I said to the Jews, so now I say to you: ‘Where I am going, you cannot come.’ 34A new commandment I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so also you must love one another. 35By this all men will know that you are My disciples, if you love one another.”…


Jesus invalidated the law FOR THOSE ONLY IN HIM, not those outside of Him

Now you can question Jesus as being the messiah, fine, thats good and should be done to its final extent, no worries
I have, I am happy that I believe Jesus to be the Messiah sent to Israel and the gentile nations. Me, I am content its true.
You dont have to be, I wont force you, your choice

Many many Jews in Christs time also accepted Jesus as the Messiah, under persecution and death.
Odd isnt it.

a reply to: JBIZZ

Nothing you listed is true..

Good doesn't need evil, evil doesn't need good. Love doesn't require hate and DEFINATELY you can have atheists without religion..

Since atheists only believe in what is provable they don't even need to know the concept of a god to exist..

What you listed is a bunch of logical fallacies that would get you laughed out of a high school debate class.

a reply to: Raggedyman

This study here says that there were max 1000 Christians through out the fist century.

That all other people claiming their were more are only taking the account of acts into account.

www.hts.org.za...

originally posted by: JoshuaCox
a reply to: Raggedyman

This study here says that there were max 1000 Christians through out the fist century.

That all other people claiming their were more are only taking the account of acts into account.

www.hts.org.za...

Believe what you want to believe, thats fine

a reply to: Raggedyman

"For verily I say unto you, Till. heaven and earth pass, one jot or one. tittle shall in no wise pass from. the law, till all be fulfilled."

Then how come Christians follow St Paul and say circumcision is optional? They're certainly not following the Jew Jesus?

How can you not know that christianity started out in Israel and amongst the Jews, thats self evident, isnt it, surely?

No St Constantine fomalized a new religion based on Old Roman Gods, hundreds of years later

a reply to: Raggedyman

No see I'm actually wanting to know the truth, rather than just believe what I want because it "sounds good.."

If Christianity is a total fabrication do you even want to know???