It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Is God Evil???

page: 9
11
<< 6  7  8    10  11 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Jun, 19 2017 @ 09:07 PM
link   
a reply to: JoshuaCox

There are real secondary sources.
1.


An early non-Christian reference to the crucifixion of Jesus is likely to be Mara Bar-Serapion's letter to his son, written sometime after AD 73 but before the 3rd century AD.[58][5][59] The letter includes no Christian themes and the author is presumed to be a pagan.[58][5][60] The letter refers to the retributions that followed the unjust treatment of three wise men: Socrates, Pythagoras, and "the wise king" of the Jews.[58][59] Some scholars see little doubt that the reference to the execution of the "king of the Jews" is about the crucifixion of Jesus, while others place less value in the letter, given the possible ambiguity in the reference.[60][61]


2. In the Antiquities of the Jews (written about 93 AD) Jewish historian Josephus, stated (Ant 18.3) that Jesus was crucified by Pilate, writing that:[62]


Now there was about this time Jesus, a wise man, ... He drew over to him both many of the Jews and many of the Gentiles ... And when Pilate, at the suggestion of the principal men amongst us, had condemned him to the cross ...


3. Early in the second century another reference to the crucifixion of Jesus was made by Tacitus, generally considered one of the greatest Roman historians.[64][65] Writing in The Annals (c. 116 AD), Tacitus described the persecution of Christians by Nero and stated (Annals 15.44) that Pilate ordered the execution of Jesus:[62][66]


Nero fastened the guilt and inflicted the most exquisite tortures on a class hated for their abominations, called Christians by the populace. Christus, from whom the name had its origin, suffered the extreme penalty during the reign of Tiberius at the hands of one of our procurators, Pontius Pilatus.


4. Another possible reference to the crucifixion ("hanging" cf. Luke 23:39; Galatians 3:13) is found in the Babylonian Talmud:


On the eve of the Passover Yeshu was hanged. For forty days before the execution took place, a herald went forth and cried, 'He is going forth to be stoned because he has practised sorcery and enticed Israel to apostasy. Anyone who can say anything in his favour, let him come forward and plead on his behalf.' But since nothing was brought forward in his favour he was hanged on the eve of the Passover!

— Sanhedrin 43a, Babylonian Talmud (Soncino Edition)

en.wikipedia.org...

In general, scholars agree on 2 things: Historical Jesus and Crucification.

Historicity[edit]
See also: Historicity of Jesus

Crucifixion of Jesus of Nazareth, medieval illustration from the Hortus deliciarum of Herrad of Landsberg (12th century)

Descent from the Cross, depicted by Rubens
The baptism of Jesus and his crucifixion are considered to be two historically certain facts about Jesus.[9][10] James Dunn states that these "two facts in the life of Jesus command almost universal assent" and "rank so high on the 'almost impossible to doubt or deny' scale of historical facts" that they are often the starting points for the study of the historical Jesus.[9] Bart Ehrman states that the crucifixion of Jesus on the orders of Pontius Pilate is the most certain element about him.[11] John Dominic Crossan states that the crucifixion of Jesus is as certain as any historical fact can be.[12] Eddy and Boyd state that it is now "firmly established" that there is non-Christian confirmation of the crucifixion of Jesus.[13] Craig Blomberg states that most scholars in the third quest for the historical Jesus consider the crucifixion indisputable.[4] Christopher M. Tuckett states that, although the exact reasons for the death of Jesus are hard to determine, one of the indisputable facts about him is that he was crucified.[14]

While scholars agree on the historicity of the crucifixion, they differ on the reason and context for it. For example, both E. P. Sanders and Paula Fredriksen support the historicity of the crucifixion but contend that Jesus did not foretell his own crucifixion and that his prediction of the crucifixion is a "church creation" (p. 126).[15] Geza Vermes also views the crucifixion as a historical event but provides his own explanation and background for it.[15]

John P. Meier views the crucifixion of Jesus as historical fact and states that, based on the criterion of embarrassment, Christians would not have invented the painful death of their leader.[16] Meier states that a number of other criteria, e.g., the criterion of multiple attestation (i.e., confirmation by more than one source) and the criterion of coherence (i.e., that it fits with other historical elements) help establish the crucifixion of Jesus as a historical event.[17]

Although almost all ancient sources relating to crucifixion are literary, the 1968 archeological discovery just northeast of Jerusalem of the body of a crucified man dated to the 1st century provided good confirmatory evidence that crucifixions occurred during the Roman period roughly according to the manner in which the crucifixion of Jesus is described in the gospels.[18] The crucified man was identified as Yehohanan ben Hagkol and probably died about 70 AD, around the time of the Jewish revolt against Rome. The analyses at the Hadassah Medical School estimated that he died in his late 20s. Another relevant archaeological find, which also dates to the 1st century AD, is an unidentified heel bone with a spike discovered in a Jerusalem gravesite, now held by the Israel Antiquities Authority and displayed in the Israel Museum.[19][20]

Crucifixation of Jesus

Pontius Pilate evidence.



edit on 19-6-2017 by EasternShadow because: (no reason given)

edit on 19-6-2017 by EasternShadow because: (no reason given)




posted on Jun, 19 2017 @ 09:35 PM
link   
a reply to: JoshuaCox

The most fascinating things I find about the Annals (written ca. AD 116), book 15, chapter 44 is the tone of Tacitus. He obviously hated the christians. As shown here:



Consequently, to get rid of the report, Nero fastened the guilt and inflicted the most exquisite tortures on a class hated for their abominations, called Christians by the populace. Christus, from whom the name had its origin, suffered the extreme penalty during the reign of Tiberius at the hands of one of our procurators, Pontius Pilatus, and a most mischievous superstition, thus checked for the moment, again broke out not only in Judæa, the first source of the evil, but even in Rome, where all things hideous and shameful from every part of the world find their centre and become popular. Accordingly, an arrest was first made of all who pleaded guilty; then, upon their information, an immense multitude was convicted, not so much of the crime of firing the city, as of hatred against mankind.

(In Latin: ergo abolendo rumori Nero subdidit reos et quaesitissimis poenis adfecit, quos per flagitia invisos vulgus Chrestianos appellabat. auctor nominis eius Christus Tibero imperitante per procuratorem Pontium Pilatum supplicio adfectus erat; repressaque in praesens exitiablilis superstitio rursum erumpebat, non modo per Iudaeam, originem eius mali, sed per urbem etiam, quo cuncta undique atrocia aut pudenda confluunt celebranturque. igitur primum correpti qui fatebantur, deinde indicio eorum multitudo ingens haud proinde in crimine incendii quam odio humani generis convicti sunt.[2])

Tacitus on Christ

Take note : Tacitus described christians as abominations, the first sorce of the evil and as of hatred against mankind.

Edit: Equally interesting is satirical letter entitled The Passing of Peregrinus, by Lucian of Samosata ( 125 CE – after 180 CE )


"The Christians, you know, worship a man to this day—the distinguished personage who introduced their novel rites, and was crucified on that account. … You see, these misguided creatures start with the general conviction that they are immortal for all time, which explains their contempt of death and voluntary self-devotion which are so common among them; and then it was impressed on them by their original lawgiver that they are all brothers, from the moment that they are converted, and deny the gods of Greece, and worship the crucified sage, and live after his laws. All this they take quite on faith, with the result that they despise all worldly goods alike, regarding them merely as common property."[2]

Lucian, The Passing of Peregrinus

edit on 19-6-2017 by EasternShadow because: Adding Lucian of Samosata, "The Passing of Peregrinus"



posted on Jun, 19 2017 @ 09:49 PM
link   
So the question was asked why God would predestine some to heaven and some to hell. The answer Biblically is he does not, each of has a choice and depending on that choice by his foreknowledge we will be blessed or cursed.

But I wanted to interject what the world plan is and how God is involved which he is not controlling anyone but it is going in the right direction.


THE MODERN TOWER OF BABEL- Samples of International Unification known as Globalization.

It must be seen by reading the Bible with a clear mind, that every attempt of man to unite God has either destroyed or confused the efforts of man. As was God’s reaction to mans attempt to unite creating the Tower of Babel. But if we study historically what we see in the Tower of Babel was nothing more than mans first attempt to a one world Government and Religion.

The following are quotes from different sources, some of these quotes are abslolutely true while others border on conspiracy theories. I want to present these quotes and their issues using all sources and subjects in putting forth this theory.


GLOBALIZATION

Let’s look at one example of this. An English Princess who had an Egyptian boyfriend, riding through a French tunnel, while driving a German car. It had a Dutch engine built by a Belgian who was drunk on Scotch whiskey. They were being followed by Italian Paparazzi on Japanese motorcycle. The victims were treated by an American doctor using Brazilian Medicines.

This notice was actually at the time sent by a Canadian using Bill Gates American technology on Taiwan chips in Chinese Monitors, assembled in Bangladesh workers in a Singapore plant, transported by an Indian who was hijacked by Indonesian Moslems; It was unloaded by the Sicilian Mafia and tracked by Mexican Catholic illegals - Anonymous Email.


GETTING RID OF THE OPPOSITION TO THE BUILDING OF ONE WORLD ORDER

In a proposed police state back in 2000, it was suggested that in your income tax form you let the Government know how many guns you have in your home. You could ge a fine for each gun. The government would also have the right or freedom to brake and enter your home to see if you reported them correctly.

The Homeland Security Act (Sept 2002) caused all security to be done away with. All homes were open for trespassing, allowing the government to drive you out without a warrant, notice, trial, Jury, or even arrest.

In 1983, Congressman Larry McDonald was killed when a Korean airliner (flight 007) was shot down over Sakhalin Island in the Sea of Japan, after demanding Congressional investigation of the Council on Foreign Relations and Trilateral Commission.

In 1995, black unmarked helicopters were flying all over the country. According to Bob Fletcher, a witness in the Iran-Contra hearings, he was assaulted with attempts on his life after a video showing CIA involvement in the takeover of the USA by the UN was released in February.

In 1995, the Oklahoma City bombing had the possibility of being a government setup from start to finish. The prisoner accused of the bombing (Timothy McVeigh) had no rights to contact anyone for two years.

Then President Clinton signed a bill for 1,000 more “anti-terrorist” agents. In 1994, Bill HRR666 was not passed, but it justified illegal entry and search and seizure on the basis of rumor.

In 1988, $400 Million was given to Arafat during the “Wye” agreement. Arafat kept $4 million for himself. Interesting point is it is the same amount of money given to Iran by Obama in 2016 but I digress.

Iraq was bombed to delay a vote on impeachment. The Long Beach Naval base and high technology were offered to Red China, but protests stopped the sale.

In 1993, in Waco Texas, 76 were killed (21 were minor children) when CS teargas was heated and became Cyanide gas (used in gas chambers).

In 1993, Russian and Ghurkha combat troops conducted exercises in the USA; alarmed citizens were called “radical extremist.”

In 2002, the International Criminal Court was setup.

In 2005, GAFTA was passed.


THE TOWER OF BABEL IN AMERICA

1921 - The CFR was created by John D Rockefeller
1950 - the UN was created by John D Rockefeller Jr. in New York
1973 - The Trilateral Commission was created by David Rockefeller
1977 - President Carter, under the UN charter, puts the USA under the UN military command.
1985 - “Glasnost” and “Perestroika” under Gorbachev
1988 - Bush (a member of the CFR and Trilateral Commission) elected a President.
1991 - American Disarmament starts.
1992-2994 - Clinton closes bases, allows Homosexuals to join the armed services, puts US troops under UN commanders, signs bills for illegal search and seizure and wire taps, Removes second Amendment rights, and then stations foreign troops in American military bases,
1992 - Gorbachev set up the Gorbachev foundation in San Fransico to work out strategy for disarming America.




GLOBAL OCCUPATION - MONEY AND THE TOWER OF BABEL

The founder of America’s First Federal Bank (Alexander Hamilton) patterned after the Bank of England, which was owned by a private group of financiers. Jefferson said, “the bank is one of the most deadly hostilities existing against the principles and form of our Constitution. (The works of Thomas Jefferson, G.P. Putman and Son’s 1905, NY pg 57). Hamilton wanted to tax goods. In 1794, the Whiskey Rebellion was put down with federal troops (like the BATF).

Communist Russia is now ultra-capitalistic, dominated by Gos Bank (150,000 employees - 400 branches). It creates money out of nothing. Select bankers and the elite control everything. Russia got ten times as many secret police in 1921 (Lenin) as it had under the Czars (the Orhrana): The Chekam OGPU, NKGB, MGB and MVB: the KGB had 95,000 staff officers, There were 175,000 troops in 1928. In Stalin’s “Five Year Plan”, 5 Million of his own citizens were starved and 20 million were murdered.


THE COMPOSITION OF THE “TOWER OF BABEL”

1913 - Federal Reserve, Washinton D.C.
1920 - League of Nations, Geneva Switzerland
1921 - Council on Foreign Relations, New York
1925 - Institute for Pacific Relations, New York
1945 - United Nations, New York
1954 - The Bilderbergers, Oosterbeek, Holland
1968 - The Club of Rome, Rome, Italy
1973 - The Trilateral Commission, New York
Agencies:BAFT, FBI, ACLU, NEA, NAACP, IRS, HRS, CIA, DEA, UN, CAN, EPA, NSA, EOC, and DHS. (And that just a few)


HISTORY OF THE CONSPIRATORS

(A) Illuminati: Established on May 1, 1776 by Adam Weishaupt: “illuminization” Freemasonry producing the French and American Revolutions.

(B) CFR: Began on May 30, 1919 by members of the Paris Peace Conference. The American branch was officially organized on July 29, 1921 as the “CFR” in New York. It was the same crowd who put together the Federal Reserve (J.P. Morgan, Bernard Baruch, Otto Kahn, Jacob Schiff, J. D. Rockefeller, Paul Warburg, and Baron Edmond De Rothchild of France whohad to approve all members). Some of the directors since 1921 have been Adlai Stevenson, Cyrus Vance, George H. W. Bush, Henry Kissinger, and David Rockefeller. Under FDR, the State Department was taken over by 2,670 members of the CFR.

(C) UN:Founded in 1945 by 47 members of the CFR (including Nelson Rockefeller, Adlai Stevenson and Alger Hiss). The landfor the genral assempbly in New York was donated by John D Rockefeller Jr. U Thant (the thridsecretary general of the UN) praised Lenin. Kurt Waldheim took over after that.



posted on Jun, 19 2017 @ 09:50 PM
link   
continued

D) The Bilderbergers: in 1954, 100 of Europe’s most powerful “elite” met in Oosterbeek, Holland to integrate Europe. “The Treaty of Rome” and the European Common Market (the current European Union) developed here. All American Bilderbergers are members of the CFR.

(E) The Club of Rome: From April 1968-September 1973, 25 American CFR members “regionalized an adaptive model of the global world system.” Canada and the USA are no. 1, England no. 2, Western Europe No. 3, Australia no. 4, Russia no. 5, Central and Southern Africa no. 6, North Africa no. 7, Central and South America no.8, India and Malaysia no. 9, and China no. 10. (See the ten Kings of Daniel 2:40-43; Rev 13:1, 17:12).

(F) The Trilateral Commission: begun in 1973 to make the USA dependent on other economies. David Rockefeller was the first director and drafter of the charter along with Zbigniew Brzezinski - a devotee of the French Jesuit Teilhard de Chardin, who said, “Marxism is progress and a major advance.” The leaders are from Japan, Europe, and North America. It grew from 525 to 825 members. Congressman Larry McDonald and Senator Jesse Helms called for an expose. As stated earlier McDonald wasw killed in 1983 on a Korean Airliner (see above).


STATEMENTS BY THE BUILDERS OF THE TOWER

Harold Urey; “The only escape from total destruction if civil life would bea world government”.
Robert Openheimer: “In the field of atomic energy, there must be set up a wrold power.”
Arthur Compton: “World Government has become inevitable.”
Dr R.B. Perry (Harvard): “Whether we like it or not, we are moving toward a one world government.”
Prof. W.E. Hocking: “Therefore the alternative is that we vest all political power in one agency and resign that poer ourselves.”
Joseph Clark: “The people will follow when the leaders tell them there is no alternative; old-fashioned patriotism is surely an obstical to world order.
Raymond Ghram Swing: “Either we will find a way to establishworld or we will perishin a war of the atom”.
John F Kennedy: “on February 16, 1962, he issued a series of /executive orders (10995, 10997, 10998, 10999, 11000, 11001, 11002 11003), which created the “Office of Emergency Planning” (later it became FEMA), and gave a Catholic President(JFK) more power that Adolf Hitler ever had.
H.G. Wells: “ It is necessary to discover a head capable of directing it, empowered with intelligence surpassing the most elevated human Level”.

IN recent events of the 2016 election the Russians did try to control the outcome of the election but it was not for Donald J able to leaked the hacked emails to expose what the DNC did to Saunders when they saw their choice get sacked by the Clinton Crime Foundational and the DNC when they colluded to set Hillary up as the DNC top choice for president.

Russia knows first hand that Socialism is the quickest way to destroy a nation. Bernie was their choice to collapse the USA, once they burned Saunders they went after Hillary. But the People chose Trump instead of Clinton and the globalization has slowed for the moment.


THE REASON FOR GLOBALIZATION - THE MODERN TOWER OF BABEL

Now this is what the Devil is using to form his up coming kingdom of the “Son of Perdition”. It is good to be aware of such things and to oppose them when and where you can, but you can’t get to caught up in these matters. God is using all these things to bring the nations together so he can destroy them (Zeph 3:8)

The problem with being too absorbed with things like this is that you can get anti-Semitic like Texe Marrs and the John Birch Society. You will “observe the wind” (Eccl 11:4) and lose your zeal for souls and be useless for God. A Bible-believing Christian isn’t looking or preparing for the one world Government of the Antichrist; he’s looking for the return of his Saviour Jesus Christ (Titus 2:13).

DR P. S. RUCKMAN



edit on 19-6-2017 by ChesterJohn because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 19 2017 @ 10:08 PM
link   
a reply to: EasternShadow

Jesus arose from the dead never to die again, he has eternal life and gives it to those who believe on his finished work of the cross.

Paul did not speak in opinions but spoke the word of God both from the OT and inspired to him by Christ/God himself.

JoshuaCox, Paul stated that 500 witnessed his resurrection. Though we have no account of everyone who saw him, we do have the statement given by Paul as he preached Christ crucified for the forgiveness of our sins and resurrected to give us assurance of eternal life.

I know for sure if I were to die today I will be with Jesus Christ in heaven right next to Paul and all the other saints.



posted on Jun, 19 2017 @ 11:19 PM
link   

originally posted by: ChesterJohn
So the question was asked why God would predestine some to heaven and some to hell. The answer Biblically is he does not, each of has a choice and depending on that choice by his foreknowledge we will be blessed or cursed.

That is exactly what I have said in previous posts. There is no plan. We are not predestined by God's will. No one is going to Heaven or Hell because of God's plan. To me, God's plan is purely creation of universe and without intervene, or prejudice sentiment, at least in modern time.


originally posted by: ChesterJohn
But I wanted to interject what the world plan is and how God is involved which he is not controlling anyone but it is going in the right direction.

Of course. Everyone intreprets "the right direction" differently. To me the right direction isnt with the ancient holy books but with science, logical and critical thinking. The rest is simply go along with the law of 10 commandments. If you break the law you are criminals. But you follow the law you are free, regardless of tradition and faith you bound yourself in. The principle apply to every law, be it physic or biology or civil law. To me, that is the only foreknowledge of God with regards to modern human free will. We are not that uneducated peasants and slaves like Dark Age people. We will someday interstellar the unkown to make sure why we are significant to the universe as a whole. The future is not set in earthly cave. But beyond and far far away. That is why God create the universe and not just Earth and Sun. For God the omniscience, should already Foreknowledge that. The Grand design of future is here today by mankind. Not in the past 2000 years ago. And certainly not by God the Justice and love.


originally posted by: ChesterJohn
THE MODERN TOWER OF BABEL- Samples of International Unification known as Globalization.

Wow that too much to digest. I will do some some researches tho. Very interesting idea,


originally posted by: ChesterJohn
Jesus arose from the dead never to die again, he has eternal life and gives it to those who believe on his finished work of the cross.

And so do you. Im sure, you would believe that you have eternal life too after death. Rose from the dead means he did died. Without death, there is no resurrection. Without Resurrection there is no salvation and Paul would not have "dream" of resurrection of Jesus. Spiritual eternal life is different issue. And should not be mixed with earthly life experience. Eternal life itself does not negate that physical life has to end first.


originally posted by: ChesterJohn
Paul did not speak in opinions but spoke the word of God both from the OT and inspired to him by Christ/God himself.

And so do you. Does that make you a prophet?
Inspired is not the same as having conversation with real things or human. There are people who can eye witness your conversation. There is no one can eye witness your inspiration. People can inspire anything, for example UFO, Ghost, Vampires, Werewolves, Fairies, etc.. But who else will going to experience such things? No one.


originally posted by: ChesterJohn
I know for sure if I were to die today I will be with Jesus Christ in heaven right next to Paul and all the other saints.

I respect your opinion on this matter, and not Paul's word because Paul does not has any authority over heaven.
edit on 19-6-2017 by EasternShadow because: (no reason given)

edit on 19-6-2017 by EasternShadow because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 20 2017 @ 06:02 AM
link   
a reply to: EasternShadow

1) "wise king of the Jews" could be any Jewish king...

2) Josephus is a known liar right???

3) that might count.. was Tacitus a Christian?? (Added in edit)

The thing with Tacitus is he was born 25 years after his death and might have just been referring to what Christians believed, rather than it being an actual secondary account.

4) maybe doesnt count..

Everything you mentioned is highly debated and has serious credibility issues. I've seen them all before with quite reasonable rebuttals.

That isn't 100% saying they are not legit accounts.. but there sure as hell isnt a consensus...

And with your second claim that "in general most scholars agree" isn't really accurate either..

There are a dozen fairly well accepted theories about Jesus..

1) he was a compilation figure like king author.

2) he was an earlier reformer that was then misremembered.

Exc..

There is no consensus that Jesus (man or divine) that Jesus existed..

There is about 1000 times more evidence for Alexander, Julius ceaaer, Cyrus the great, leonidas , exc than there has ever been for Jesus..

So is there evidence for Jesus compared to santa clause?? Absolutely..

Is there evidence for Jesus compared to other celebrity ancients??

Not even close..

Hell there is prob more contemporary evidence for king author than for Jesus..or at least roughly the same evidence.



If there was only a couple questionable references to Alexander (except the account written by the cult of Alexander centuries later) , then everyone would question his existence as well.

For PC reasons Christianity is given far more benefit of the doubt than any other historical figure.
edit on 20-6-2017 by JoshuaCox because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 20 2017 @ 06:07 AM
link   
a reply to: ChesterJohn

The question was " if our future is part of gods plan, which he predestined.. then people cannot have free will and so are being tortured for eternity for the crime of doing what you were always meant to do and were always going to do as was gods plan.."


If you do not believe that the future is already decided by gods plan or that he'll is an actual place of torture for all unbelievers.

Then my post isn't replying to your specific flavor of Christianity.

Your version doesn't hold that particular very evil tenant.



posted on Jun, 20 2017 @ 06:52 AM
link   
a reply to: EasternShadow

Did you not see the plan in the Article I posted the Tower of Babel?

Can you not see the hand behind the one world order and its counterfeit kingdom of the son of perdition?

Very important as we see in our own political atmosphere that the only plan God has is already written in the Bible and that being he will destroy evil wicked men and leave only a remnant of all nations for Israel to rule over.

I thought you knew your Bible enough to see all that was posted in the "Tower of Babel" Article, and how it all fits together in God's ultimate plan, a plan he does not need to orchestrate for the Devil is already doing it for him. Even if God does kill off 90% of the worlds population it does not make him evil. He will still stand Holy Righteous and true for all eternity.


edit on 20-6-2017 by ChesterJohn because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 20 2017 @ 06:55 AM
link   
a reply to: JoshuaCox

to say that Jesus did not exist is to say Buddha did not exist or Mohamed did not exist. Or that George Washinton did not exist.

However all of these including Jesus Christ, did exist and the proof is many writings have preserved that truth, including God's preserved word for this Generation in English.



posted on Jun, 20 2017 @ 06:57 AM
link   
a reply to: JoshuaCox

as pointed out the Bible only speaks of Christians being predestined and the oints of that predestination are in the context for them.

unbelievers are just appointed to hell because of their unbelief in the work of Jesus Christ on the cross and for nothing else



posted on Jun, 20 2017 @ 04:52 PM
link   

originally posted by: JoshuaCox
a reply to: EasternShadow

1) "wise king of the Jews" could be any Jewish king...

And who would that any Jewish king be crucified in the first century?


originally posted by: JoshuaCox
2) Josephus is a known liar right???



The general scholarly view is that while the Testimonium Flavianum is most likely not authentic in its entirety, it is broadly agreed upon that it originally consisted of an authentic nucleus, which was then subject to Christian expansion/alteration.[5][6][7][8][9][10] Although the exact nature and extent of the Christian redaction remains unclear,[11] there is broad consensus as to what the original text of the Testimonium by Josephus would have looked like.[9]

Modern scholarship has largely acknowledged the authenticity of the reference in Book 20, Chapter 9, 1 of the Antiquities to "the brother of Jesus, who was called Christ, whose name was James"[12] and considers it as having the highest level of authenticity among the references of Josephus to Christianity.[13][1][2][14][15][16]

Almost all modern scholars consider the reference in Book 18, Chapter 5, 2 of the Antiquities to the imprisonment and death of John the Baptist also to be authentic and not a Christian interpolation.[17][18][19]

en.wikipedia.org...


originally posted by: JoshuaCox
3) that might count.. was Tacitus a Christian?? (Added in edit)

Why would a christian called cristians abomination and the source of evil? Do you even read my second reply with regard to Tacitus with evidence from the Annal?


originally posted by: JoshuaCox
The thing with Tacitus is he was born 25 years after his death and might have just been referring to what Christians believed, rather than it being an actual secondary account.

What? Do you expect some historians would sit next to Jesus on the cross like CNN or Fox News to be broadcasted worldwide? The fact is, there are people who witness the event and report it to Tacitus. The main point is the event did exist. And Tacitus recorded it. He could not have possibly lied to Emperor Nero if people werent reporting it.


originally posted by: JoshuaCox
4) maybe doesnt count..

Maybe because your common sense require news agencies to report on the sport for worldwide view?
Look, The time gap there is considered very very small. We have 2 copies of Plato manuscripts dated 800 years after Plato's death yet no scholars argue it's authencity. The main point is the event did exist and people are recording it.



originally posted by: JoshuaCox
Everything you mentioned is highly debated and has serious credibility issues. I've seen them all before with quite reasonable rebuttals.

Every reasons have been given in details by scholars of why they think the crucifixion of Jesus is historical. Some even claim it indisputeable. Not a single passages in the wiki mentioned any scholars who doubt or refute it as you have claimed.

originally posted by: JoshuaCox
That isn't 100% saying they are not legit accounts.. but there sure as hell isnt a consensus...

And with your second claim that "in general most scholars agree" isn't really accurate either..



These three facts about the Historical Jesus are held by most critical scholars and historians.

1. Jesus’ death by crucifixion

2. Very Shortly after Jesus’ death, the disciples had experiences that led them to believe and proclaim that Jesus had been resurrected and had appeared to them.

3. Within a few years after Jesus death, Paul converted after a personal experience that he interpreted as a post resurrection appearance of Jesus to him.

chab123.wordpress.com...

There are many other sites pointed the exact same things. The wiki link I have provided for you mentioned all the scholars and their consensus. But of course, You dont want to read it. Instead you spout on this:


originally posted by: JoshuaCox
There are a dozen fairly well accepted theories about Jesus..

1) he was a compilation figure like king author.

2) he was an earlier reformer that was then misremembered.

Exc..
There is no consensus that Jesus (man or divine) that Jesus existed..

Fairly well accepted theories? You are unwillingly to accept general consensus by historians and scholars with above evidences. Yet you are willing to accept mythicists theories with zero evidences?
strangenotions.com...

And here is what Bart Ehrman said regarding the mythicists such as your "fairly well accepted theories,"
“Few of these mythicists are actually scholars trained in ancient history, religion, biblical studies or any cognate field, let alone in the ancient languages generally thought to matter for those who want to say something with any degree of authority about a Jewish teacher who (allegedly) lived in first-century Palestine. There are a couple of exceptions: of the hundreds — thousands? — of mythicists, two (to my knowledge) actually have Ph.D. credentials in relevant fields of study. But even taking these into account, there is not a single mythicist who teaches New Testament or Early Christianity or even Classics at any accredited institution of higher learning in the Western world. And it is no wonder why. These views are so extreme and so unconvincing to 99.99 percent of the real experts that anyone holding them is as likely to get a teaching job in an established department of religion as a six-day creationist is likely to land on in a bona fide department of biology.”



originally posted by: JoshuaCox
There is about 1000 times more evidence for Alexander, Julius ceaaer, Cyrus the great, leonidas , exc than there has ever been for Jesus..

So is there evidence for Jesus compared to santa clause?? Absolutely..

Is there evidence for Jesus compared to other celebrity ancients??

Not even close..

Hell there is prob more contemporary evidence for king author than for Jesus..or at least roughly the same evidence.



If there was only a couple questionable references to Alexander (except the account written by the cult of Alexander centuries later) , then everyone would question his existence as well.

For PC reasons Christianity is given far more benefit of the doubt than any other historical figure.

If you are arguing why a carpenter you thought Santa Claus, isnt broadcasts by CNN and Fox News about 1000 times more compare to other celebrities and No christmas present from Santa, then I'm not going to waste my time on you.
edit on 20-6-2017 by EasternShadow because: (no reason given)

edit on 20-6-2017 by EasternShadow because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 20 2017 @ 05:19 PM
link   

originally posted by: ChesterJohn
a reply to: EasternShadow

Did you not see the plan in the Article I posted the Tower of Babel?

Can you not see the hand behind the one world order and its counterfeit kingdom of the son of perdition?

Im doing Fact Checking doesnt mean I ignore it. Like I said. I need to research more on such relation.


originally posted by: ChesterJohn
Very important as we see in our own political atmosphere that the only plan God has is already written in the Bible and that being he will destroy evil wicked men and leave only a remnant of all nations for Israel to rule over.

I thought you knew your Bible enough to see all that was posted in the "Tower of Babel" Article, and how it all fits together in God's ultimate plan, a plan he does not need to orchestrate for the Devil is already doing it for him. Even if God does kill off 90% of the worlds population it does not make him evil. He will still stand Holy Righteous and true for all eternity.


You see that's the problem. You are relating modern Global political conspiracy theories with Biblical Tower of Babel under pretex God's ultimate plan. And we are drifting away from OP far enough.
edit on 20-6-2017 by EasternShadow because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 20 2017 @ 07:50 PM
link   
Sorry to drift off topic but the plan of God as you see it was that some men were predestined to heaven and others to hell.

But the Bible only talks about Saved people be predestinated.

But ultimately God is not Evil and you will know this when you stand before him.



posted on Jun, 21 2017 @ 04:01 AM
link   

originally posted by: ChesterJohn
THE MODERN TOWER OF BABEL- Samples of International Unification known as Globalization.

Certain events listed are unique to US only. None other nations experience them. US internal political events do not, in any way, influence South America, Asia, Africa and Oceania.


originally posted by: ChesterJohn
THE TOWER OF BABEL IN AMERICA

1921 - The CFR was created by John D Rockefeller
1950 - the UN was created by John D Rockefeller Jr. in New York
1973 - The Trilateral Commission was created by David Rockefeller
1977 - President Carter, under the UN charter, puts the USA under the UN military command.
1985 - “Glasnost” and “Perestroika” under Gorbachev
1988 - Bush (a member of the CFR and Trilateral Commission) elected a President.
1991 - American Disarmament starts.
1992-2994 - Clinton closes bases, allows Homosexuals to join the armed services, puts US troops under UN commanders, signs bills for illegal search and seizure and wire taps, Removes second Amendment rights, and then stations foreign troops in American military bases,
1992 - Gorbachev set up the Gorbachev foundation in San Fransico to work out strategy for disarming America.

Correction, their purpose is not about "building tower so its top reach heaven". UN was build under the foundation to prevent world war 3. It is not about reaching heaven. That would be Nasa's job. But Nasa isnt build to unite multi languages either. And Nasa has been sending multiple satelite explorers to spaces few decades ago. I do not see any signs that "God called other Gods to go down." By the way there is only one God. So how on earth God says, "Let us go down."? who is "us"? Not to mention, God is omniscience. "Let us go down..." for what? Stupid Genesis multiple Gods probably.


originally posted by: ChesterJohn
GLOBAL OCCUPATION - MONEY AND THE TOWER OF BABEL

The founder of America’s First Federal Bank (Alexander Hamilton) patterned after the Bank of England, which was owned by a private group of financiers. Jefferson said, “the bank is one of the most deadly hostilities existing against the principles and form of our Constitution. (The works of Thomas Jefferson, G.P. Putman and Son’s 1905, NY pg 57). Hamilton wanted to tax goods. In 1794, the Whiskey Rebellion was put down with federal troops (like the BATF).

Communist Russia is now ultra-capitalistic, dominated by Gos Bank (150,000 employees - 400 branches). It creates money out of nothing. Select bankers and the elite control everything. Russia got ten times as many secret police in 1921 (Lenin) as it had under the Czars (the Orhrana): The Chekam OGPU, NKGB, MGB and MVB: the KGB had 95,000 staff officers, There were 175,000 troops in 1928. In Stalin’s “Five Year Plan”, 5 Million of his own citizens were starved and 20 million were murdered.

Sadly the Tower of Babel's globalization isnt about money either. This example is unrelated.


originally posted by: ChesterJohn
THE COMPOSITION OF THE “TOWER OF BABEL”

1913 - Federal Reserve, Washinton D.C.
1920 - League of Nations, Geneva Switzerland
1921 - Council on Foreign Relations, New York
1925 - Institute for Pacific Relations, New York
1945 - United Nations, New York
1954 - The Bilderbergers, Oosterbeek, Holland
1968 - The Club of Rome, Rome, Italy
1973 - The Trilateral Commission, New York
Agencies:BAFT, FBI, ACLU, NEA, NAACP, IRS, HRS, CIA, DEA, UN, CAN, EPA, NSA, EOC, and DHS. (And that just a few)

Not one of them build high to reach heaven. Their purpose are entirely different.


originally posted by: ChesterJohn
HISTORY OF THE CONSPIRATORS

(A) Illuminati: Established on May 1, 1776 by Adam Weishaupt: “illuminization” Freemasonry producing the French and American Revolutions.

Illuminati?? Please. Not this BS again.


originally posted by: ChesterJohn
(B) CFR: Began on May 30, 1919 by members of the Paris Peace Conference. The American branch was officially organized on July 29, 1921 as the “CFR” in New York. It was the same crowd who put together the Federal Reserve (J.P. Morgan, Bernard Baruch, Otto Kahn, Jacob Schiff, J. D. Rockefeller, Paul Warburg, and Baron Edmond De Rothchild of France whohad to approve all members). Some of the directors since 1921 have been Adlai Stevenson, Cyrus Vance, George H. W. Bush, Henry Kissinger, and David Rockefeller. Under FDR, the State Department was taken over by 2,670 members of the CFR.

(C) UN:Founded in 1945 by 47 members of the CFR (including Nelson Rockefeller, Adlai Stevenson and Alger Hiss). The landfor the genral assempbly in New York was donated by John D Rockefeller Jr. U Thant (the thridsecretary general of the UN) praised Lenin. Kurt Waldheim took over after that.

They can globalize the use of English as international language. I dont see how is that suppose to anger God. Again none of them build to reach heaven.


originally posted by: ChesterJohn
STATEMENTS BY THE BUILDERS OF THE TOWER

Harold Urey; “The only escape from total destruction if civil life would bea world government”.
Raymond Ghram Swing: “Either we will find a way to establishworld or we will perishin a war of the atom”.

Only this 2 are noteable significant. The rest are irrelevant since their purpose are different than The Tower of Babel.
The Sun is loosing fuel as we speak. if we dont unite, there will be no one survived. Not even the Israelites. The Sun is not like Biblical God. It will become Super Nova and explodes killing everyone. No one will be saved unless we reach the heaven and spread out. There will be no more blue marble planet for us in the future. So it's either you stick to your earthly Tower of Babel to face your doomsday or you reach out heaven and spread out in the Universe as God's will.

I'm sorry to say, but the story behind The Tower of Babel is just plain stupid and contradict with itself. Not to mention, God as saying, "Let us go down..." Again, who is "us" with God?

DR P. S. RUCKMAN works is entertaining but out of context and simply Monkey typewriter theory. He clearly forget or ignore the purpose of globalization behind the building the Tower of Babel. Then again,

Levenson 2004, p. 11 "How much history lies behind the story of Genesis? Because the action of the primeval story is not represented as taking place on the plane of ordinary human history and has so many affinities with ancient mythology, it is very far-fetched to speak of its narratives as historical at all."
en.wikipedia.org...

The myth of Tower of Babel is baseless with regard to God's ultimate plan. In fact, we do need to spread out just like God's will for survival. Since the universe is cruel, those who stay at Earth's Tower of Babel will doom. But those who reach out heaven and spread out will survive the Blue Marble's planetary catastrope. It will be Nasa who save your future generation kids while you are drinking wine in heaven with your Biblical God. But until when? Eternally? Life must be boring then.

Conclusion:
Of Course God is not Evil. He warns us not to stay at Earth forever but to go out to the stars and multiply.
edit on 21-6-2017 by EasternShadow because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 21 2017 @ 06:31 AM
link   
God only WANTS us to be in his life.. He will not force us to want to be in his life, He does not make our own personal decisions for us. He allows us to damage our bodies, pollute His Earth and corrupt the people around us but he also allows us to take care of our health, environment and love each other. He made our main resource of life (oxygen, breath) come from what we should all think to be a priority but sadly is not.. the trees. So that we always know naturally what's most important: Mother Nature and God. The 2 most important things ironically seem to be the least. We are so lost as people, we can't seem to find what's most important and it's blatently obvious. JoshuaCox



posted on Jun, 21 2017 @ 07:08 AM
link   
To put it simply for you (no disrespect). He MUST ressurect every single person He has created (when the time has come) so that He can fulfill the promise He made to us, when creating us, which is eternal life no matter what. I'm not getting technical with this, but 'hell' is the path you're willingly and knowingly choosing when you CONTINUE to go against his word (right and wrong, embedded in your heart, you can't miss it). Heard the phrase 'Heaven on Earth' ..nope Hell is actually on Earth. God gave us 120 years to figure out '(for OURSELVES) whether we wanted to pursue Him in Heaven or whether we prefer and desire the earthly things more. Having the unrighteous go to 'hell' is merely leaving him in the devil's hands where he desired to be because it was written on on his heart. You can't say letting you do what you strongly desire to do is evil? Simply, belittling God to a child who believes will grant you an unrighteous heart. You just have to ask for forgiveness and believe it. God bless.



posted on Jun, 21 2017 @ 07:14 AM
link   
They are appointed to 'hell' because that's really where they desired to be. They weren't AWARE of it, but what they desired in their hearts was 'hell'. Totally deceived to the point they walked away from God and right into the devils arms without a second thought. The sad thing is once they realized they were in Hell, that was it, the nightmare begins from there. They made their decision. Please read this a couple times. a reply to: ChesterJohn



posted on Jun, 21 2017 @ 08:04 AM
link   
a reply to: ChesterJohn

By definition if saved people are predestined to go to heaven , then unsaved people are predestined to hell...

If not then how could those who are saved be predestined???

Also I think that is arguably the most illogical and evil part of Christianity....

The concept that unbelievers burn in hell...

Not child molestors, or murders or rapists.. no they can repent and find eternal paradise..

But some Native American medicine man who has never even heard of Jesus, Is sentenced to a first pit of damnation..

While every child milestone who repents in prison finds his seat directly beside the lord..

And if his victim is an unbeliever??? It's the rape victim who burns....


Who the hell ever decided that was a good idea??



posted on Jun, 21 2017 @ 08:08 AM
link   
a reply to: faithnthought

Except for the vast majority of humanity never even heard the name god or Jesus...

Because people on the other side of the planet or in the americas would have never heard of him..

Something I think that is arguably the most illogical and evil part of Christianity....

The concept that unbelievers burn..

Not child molestors, or murders or rapists.. no they can repent and find eternal paradise..

But some Native American medicine man who has never even heard of Jesus, Is sentenced to a first pit of damnation..

While every child milestone who repents in prison finds his seat directly beside the lord..

And if his victim is an unbeliever??? It's the rape victim who burns....


Who the hell ever decided that was a good idea??




top topics



 
11
<< 6  7  8    10  11 >>

log in

join