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Is God Evil???

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posted on Jul, 4 2017 @ 11:10 PM
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a reply to: JoshuaCox
Perhaps it was too much and you missed this part:

Prophecies not using “Messiah.” Numerous other Hebrew Scripture texts that do not specifically mention “Messiah” were understood by the Jews as prophecies applying to that one. Alfred Edersheim located 456 passages to which the “ancient Synagogue referred as Messianic,” and there were 558 references in the most ancient rabbinic writings supporting such applications. (The Life and Times of Jesus the Messiah, 1906, Vol. I, p. 163; Vol. II, pp. 710-737) As an example, Genesis 49:10 prophesied that the ruling scepter would belong to the tribe of Judah and that Shiloh would come through that line. The Targum of Onkelos, the Jerusalem Targums, and the Midrash all recognize the expression “Shiloh” as applying to the Messiah.
...
The Jewish Encyclopedia lists 28 false Messiahs between the years 132 C.E. and 1744 C.E.—Vol. X, pp. 252-255.

These are all historical Jewish sources. And Raggedyman already pointed out that the writers of the Christian Greek Scriptures were all Jews, as was Jesus and his family. Your argument against that point was really lame compared to the claims you made about Jews of the past. Btw, since I skipped all the examples of false Messiahs, these were Jews presenting themselves to Jews as their Messiah, and believed by some. So they must have been expecting a particular Messiah for them to believe some Jew was that particular Messiah in the timeperiod indicated by The Jewish Encyclopedia. It makes no sense otherwise for a Jew to make himself out to be the Messiah to the Jews if no one would care (not in expectation of one) or have at least a general understanding of what and who someone is claiming to be.

Obscuring the truth including historical facts about their own history and historical beliefs is the main M.O. of some modern-day Jewish sources that one can cherry-pick to help make their argument. Using half-truths (not telling the whole story) or hiding in plain sight (by for example acknowledging one thing, but conveniently leaving out the important logical implications of that thing) are common tactics.

Your disdain for the bible as a reliable historical source regarding this subject is rather unreasonable and unjustified as well (given it's trackrecord of proving archeologists and secular historians that are critical of the bible wrong once people start actually digging things up). I clearly remember the Encyclopaedia Britannica arguing that the Hittites were a fictitious civilization, up until some archeologists dug up the whole civilization, to name just one glaring example of secular historians making bad assumptions because they want to pretend that the bible is a book of myths and fictitious characters and events while measuring with double standards regarding other historical documentation without a similar track record of getting things right or as much substantiating evidence that the text being studied is consistent with the original. The bible is in an entirely different category in terms of evidence for its reliability and authenticity than all other historical documentation from that time period that historians use to write their encyclopedias and history textbooks without the same standard of skepticism and criticism:

edit on 5-7-2017 by whereislogic because: (no reason given)




posted on Jul, 5 2017 @ 01:26 AM
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a reply to: whereislogic

A prophet who would perform many signs. Through Moses, God had foretold the coming of a great prophet. (De 18:18) In Jesus’ day Jews were waiting for this one. [whereislogic: Deuteronomy is part of the Torah just like my example of Genesis and "Shiloh" at the start of my comment above] (Joh 6:14) The way in which the apostle Peter used Moses’ words, at Acts 3:22, 23, indicates he knew they would be accepted as Messianic in nature even by religious opposers, and this gives evidence of widespread understanding of Deuteronomy 18:18 [whereislogic: regardless of your bias against the bible dismissing anything it mentions that you don't want to hear/that's not tickling your ears*]. The Samaritan woman by the well also thought the Messiah would be a prophet. (Joh 4:19, 25, 29) People expected the Messiah to perform signs.—Joh 7:31.


* 2 Timothy 4:3,4

3 For there will be a period of time when they will not put up with the wholesome* teaching but according to their own desires, they will surround themselves with teachers to have their ears tickled.* 4 They will turn away from listening to the truth and give attention to false stories.

1st *: Or “healthful; beneficial.”
2nd *: Or “to tell them what they want to hear.”


Thanks for the demonstration of the bible's reliability and trustworthiness. It's better to get your information about the Messiah or "Messianic concept" from the bible than from Jewish "rabbis/teachers to have" your "ears tickled" so you don't end up turning away from listening to the truth and giving attention to false stories.

Just to bring back the claims JoshuaCox was wrong or inaccurate about:

In reality the messiah prophecy wasn't central to Judaism...

Depends on how you interpret "central to". It was still a big deal for the Jews in Jesus' time and before.

Messiah in Hebrew is not divine, it just means freed the Jews from captivity.

nonsense. It means "anointed one". What does that have to do with "freed the Jews from captivity"?

Cyrus the great was a Jewish messiah.

Cyrus was a Persian. On wikipedia he's called Cyrus II of Persia. I already shared information on why he was also called "Messiah" in the bible.

...he [Jesus] DIDNT match the messiah prophecy AT ALL!!

More nonsense that simply ignores all the prophetic and historical evidence (of which I've shared a litte bit) by for example arguing that the bible doesn't count as evidence when evaluating biblical prophecies; of course the latter part not spelled out like that cause then others can perhaps see this argument doesn't make sense to dismiss the bible because it's supposedly not historically reliable; how can you evaluate any biblical prophecy without actually using the bible and at least checking if it's internally consistent before comparing extrabiblical sources of historical evidence? Or making any effort to find out if the bible is reliable as a historical record without only having your ears tickled by bible critics and historians that argue against that with double standards as I explained earlier. If you're too biased against the bible in this regards, you cannot make an honest evaluation and make the claim above as if it's factual/true/certain/absolute/definitive/conclusive that Jesus "DIDNT match the messiah prophecy AT ALL!!". Especially not in such an emphatic definitive manner. I'll just leave a reminder that that's your opinion and I have sufficient reasons (evidence) that trumps the evidence you did not provide in that statement of opinion, or the supposed evidence that is presented by those arguing for the same opinion. It is the Jesus Christ that is described in the Christian Greek Scriptures that has to match the Messiah (Da 9:25, 26) and Shiloh (Ge 49:10) and great prophet (De 18:18) and all the other references to this particular coming Messiah in the Hebrew Scriptures. Not your own version or interpretation of Jesus or the Messiah (or from secular historians or extrabiblical historical sources). And when you make that argument above, you either have to change this particular Messiah as described and prophecied in the Hebrew Scriptures to something else, or you have to change or cast doubt on the Jesus Christ described in the Christian Greek Scriptures, cause otherwise, the way they are both described in the Hebrew Scriptures and the Christian Greek Scriptures, they match up perfectly and the descriptions are detailed and numerous. As listed in the comment with the weird layout which compares the Hebrew Scriptures with the Christian Greek Scriptures. That you disregard and dismiss both in all this is no big secret here but doesn't validate your definitive claim. Cause you're arguing about a prophecy you don't believe in not matching up with a character you don't believe existed as described in the Christian Greek Scriptures, what's the whole point of arguing with those motives? If you're going to argue that something doesn't match up, you at least have to try to match 'm up first before you can claim that. And not argue that they don't match up cause neither is reliable (or one of the 2). They do match up, you just don't believe any of it has any bearing on historical realities, or history for short. Or to change your words slightly:
The "Jesus" Christ described in the Christian Greek Scriptures does "match the messiah prophecy" or prophecies described in the Hebrew Scriptures. So I don't know which "Jesus" or "messiah prophecy" you are suggesting that don't match up but I don't care about those versions anyway.

...at no time did Jews in the past or present think that... Jesus met the criteria of a messiah.

If you quickly argue that any Jew that does or did that is no longer a Jew and doesn't count as part of "Jews in the past or present [who] think that", how convenient. Still a lame argument. Since at the moment they start 'thinking that', they're still Jews. And it's obvious that those Jews that rejected Jesus' claims are somewhat unwilling to acknowledge that Jesus met the criteria of the Messiah that was prophecied and that they were in expectation of as all the historical documentation including the bible clearly shows. And we weren't talking about just any messiah ("a messiah"). And there were even some Jews who rejected Jesus in spite of acknowledging that he met the criteria of the relevant prophecies regarding this specific Messiah, or some of those criteria.
edit on 5-7-2017 by whereislogic because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 5 2017 @ 04:29 AM
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Additional relevant information.

Jesus, being a Jew under the Law [whereislogic: until his death, see further below], observed the Sabbath as God’s Word (not the Pharisees) directed [whereislogic: again, until his death, he did not stop being a Jew under the Law and neither did his Jewish disciples before his death].
...
The Scriptures plainly state that Christ’s sacrifice “abolished . . . the Law of commandments consisting in decrees” and that God “blotted out the handwritten document against us, which consisted of decrees . . . and He has taken it out of the way by nailing it to the torture stake.” It was the complete Mosaic Law that was “abolished,” “blotted out,” taken “out of the way.” (Eph 2:13-15; Col 2:13, 14) Consequently, the whole system of Sabbaths, be they days or years, was brought to its end with the rest of the Law by the sacrifice of Christ Jesus.
...
After Jesus’ death, his apostles at no time commanded Sabbath observance.

Source: Sabbath Day: Insight, Volume 2

When the nation of Israel received the Law covenant, which forms part of the Bible, they were commanded: “You must never have any other gods against my face.” (Deuteronomy 5:7) How many persons were speaking here? Without any confusion, Deuteronomy 6:4 reads: “Listen, O Israel: Jehovah our God is one Jehovah”—not three in one. Israel had just been liberated from Egypt, where Osiris, Isis, and Horus (shown at left)—one of a number of triads of gods—were worshipped. Therefore, Israel was commanded to worship just one God. How important was it for people to understand this command? According to Dr. J. H. Hertz, a rabbi: “This sublime pronouncement of absolute monotheism was a declaration of war against all polytheism . . . The Shema excludes the trinity of the Christian creed as a violation of the Unity of God.”

Since Jesus was a Jew by birth, he was instructed to follow this same command [whereislogic: and is currently still doing so]. After his baptism, when tempted by the Devil, he said: “Go away, Satan! For it is written, ‘It is Jehovah your God you must worship, and it is to him alone you must render sacred service.’” (Matthew 4:10; Deuteronomy 6:13) We can learn at least two things from this incident. First, Satan was trying to entice Jesus to worship someone other than Jehovah, an attempt that would have been absurd if Jesus were part of the same God. Second, Jesus made it clear that there is just one God who must be worshipped when he said “him alone,” not “us,” which he would have said if he were part of a Trinity.

Source: Is the Trinity a Bible teaching?

Finally, Jehovah sent his Son, Jesus Christ, who was born a Jew. Instead of welcoming him as the Messiah, the Jewish nation as a whole rejected him. As a result, God terminated his long-standing covenant with Israel, and the figurative wall that separated Jew from non-Jew came down.* (Ephesians 2:13-18; Colossians 2:14)

*: The term “Jew” initially applied to a person belonging to the Israelite tribe of Judah. Later, the name was applied to all Hebrews.—Ezra 4:12.

Source: Does God Support Wars Today? Awake!—2011

How were you affected by what you read?

To my surprise, I discovered that the New Testament writers were Jewish. Also, the more I read, the more I saw Jesus as a kind, humble Jew who wanted to help people, not exploit them. I even went to the library and borrowed books about him. None of these, however, convinced me that he was the Messiah. Some even referred to him as God—a view that made no sense to me. After all, whom did Jesus pray to—himself? What is more, Jesus died. Yet, the Bible says of God: “You do not die.”(Habakkuk 1:12)
...
Soon thereafter, I returned to Mexico, where I continued to study Messianic prophecies with the Witnesses. I was amazed at how many prophecies there are! Still, I remained somewhat skeptical. I wondered: ‘Was Jesus the only one who fit the profile?’ and ‘What if he was simply a clever actor playing out the role?’

What was your turning point?

The Witnesses showed me prophecies that no impostor could act out. For example, more than 700 years in advance, the prophet Micah said that the Messiah would be born in Bethlehem, Judea.* Who can control where he is born? Isaiah wrote that the Messiah would be killed as a despised criminal, yet he would be buried with the rich class.* All these predictions were fulfilled in Jesus.

The final piece of evidence involved Jesus’ ancestry. The Bible said that the Messiah would be a descendant of King David.* Because the ancient Jews kept public and private genealogical records, if Jesus had not been of David’s family line, his enemies would have shouted this from the rooftops! But they could not, for Jesus’ link to David was incontestable. Crowds even addressed him as “the Son of David.”*

In 70 C.E.—37 years after Jesus died—Roman armies devastated Jerusalem, and the genealogical records were either lost or destroyed. Thus, to be identified genealogically, the Messiah had to appear before 70 C.E.

How did this realization affect you?

At Deuteronomy 18:18, 19, it was foretold that God would raise up in Israel a prophet like Moses. Anyone “who will not listen to my words that he will speak in my name, I shall myself require an account from him,” God said. My in-depth study of the whole Bible convinced me that Jesus of Nazareth was that prophet.

Source: A Jewish Woman Explains Why She Reexamined Her Faith: Awake!—2013

You said "past and present" after all (and no, the lame argument that they are no longer Jews once they accept Jesus as the Messiah/Christ still isn't reasonable compared to what you said about it initially). Jesus was technically a Jew by reason of belonging to the Israelite tribe of Judah and being a Hebrew. It doesn't seem an honest representation of history to me to use the word "Jew" exclusively for those who adhere to Judaism (of any kind, historical or modern). Come to think of it, I don't think there were any non-Jewish writers of the Christian Greek Scriptures (and remember, they all worshipped Jehovah and kept the Sabbath as well, if one wants to see those 2 things as identifying marks of Jews among other things than just being a Jew or Hebrew by birth).
edit on 5-7-2017 by whereislogic because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 5 2017 @ 05:36 AM
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a reply to: whereislogic

No those are Christian interpretations of Jewish history, not a Jews interpretation...

Those are all Christian sites trying to prove "see the Jews were wrong the whole time!"


You can even tell that's what is happening by the speech they are using ..

The are not saying "we Jews" they are talking about Jews in the 3rd person.. because this is a CHRISTIAN INTERPRETATION!!


Jews don't believe the other messiahs are false, Christians do.

I posted a quote from Jewish sites, not Christian sites using Judaism to espablusg credibility.

I noticed you provided no link.. because the source would be a Christian site...



As to your second point thet have known the hittites existed for millinia.. your misremembering .. or lying I guess..

Sodom and ghamora were found from the Bible, but of course they weren't named sodom and ghamora and they were destroyed by an invading army , not sulfur from the sky and not in the biblical time frame...


There are 1000 testable claims in the Bible that fail miserably...

There is no genetic bottle kneck in our DNA from Noah's family commuting incest until humanity was saved from extinction..

You cannot fit 2 of every animal on a boat the arc's size.

The creation sequence is laughable..

The creation timeline more so.

It would take 5 times the water presently on the planet to flood the world..

Exc, exc
There are a bunch of biblical claims that would have left a mark.



"In Christianity, the role of the messiah was redefined in order to fit the man’s career as written by his followers. As Jesus was said to have been resurrected, the Bible was examined with the purpose of finding evidence that the messiah would be killed without bringing peace to the world or redemption to Israel. There was therefore the expectation of a second coming, at which time Jesus would carry out the task expected of the messiah (because he obviously didn't do it the first time). This also required creation of an explanation for the first coming and its catastrophic end. The net result of all of this was to shift the function of the messiah from a visible level where it could be tested (as in Tanach, what Christians call the "Old Testament") to an invisible level where it could not. As a result of this reworking, the messiah’s goal the first time around was changed from the redemption of Israel to the atonement for "original sin". A reworking of Biblical themes."

www.shamash.org...




Actually go to a Jewish site next time, not a Christian revisionist history site.


edit on 5-7-2017 by JoshuaCox because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 5 2017 @ 05:41 AM
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a reply to: whereislogic

And not surprisingly we have known about the hittites since at least the 1800s...

en.m.wikipedia.org...


So your remembering the encyclopedia denying them is showing how solid your memory is....



posted on Jul, 5 2017 @ 05:45 AM
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a reply to: whereislogic

Yep ... just a link to a Christian revisionist history site focused on CHRISTIAN theology. Not a site by Jews for Jews...


Color me shocked!!

A Christian rewriting history to validate his own personal beliefs?!?!!

Never!!

Lol just lol....

I can't believe I'm having to tell you to i to a Jewish site lol...

It should be common logic to actually take the primaries word for THEIR OWN BELIEFS!!!



posted on Jul, 5 2017 @ 05:48 AM
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a reply to: Raggedyman

Then she is no longer a Jew....

She has converted to Christianity....

Go to ANY Jewish history site and they will list out dozens of reasons Jews don't believe in Jesus..

"Jews for Jesus.com" is not a Jewish site for Jews..

It is a Christian site for Christians who are using judaism to validate their religion..

I have posted many quotes from Jewish sites.. a quick google search and you would see the same.



posted on Jul, 5 2017 @ 05:53 AM
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a reply to: Raggedyman

Jesus is the secret that you know and everyone else has it wrong...



I'm actually using history...


I'm smart enough to know if everyone is telling me im crazy, I should probably check myself..

Since all of math, science and history says that looking at the biblical account as history is laughable.... Christianity is the one saying..

"No everyone is in a vast conspiracy to make us look bad."

When in reality every single biblical assertion about the nature of reality has been debunked.. easily... a century ago.



posted on Jul, 5 2017 @ 06:08 AM
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a reply to: JoshuaCox
So Christians wrote The Jewish Encyclopedia
....riiiight. Never mind.
edit on 5-7-2017 by whereislogic because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 5 2017 @ 06:10 AM
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originally posted by: whereislogic
a reply to: JoshuaCox
So Christians wrote The Jewish Encylcopedia....riiiight. Never mind.


Then please provide a link.. to a Jewish site saying that Jews believe in Jesus, that Jews think he matched the messiah prophecy , that Cyrus the great and other messiahs were "false" and that Jews were always expecting a "son of God.."


Please show me the Jewish site that says any of that..



posted on Jul, 5 2017 @ 06:18 AM
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originally posted by: JoshuaCox

originally posted by: whereislogic
a reply to: JoshuaCox
So Christians wrote The Jewish Encylcopedia....riiiight. Never mind.


Then please provide a link.. to a Jewish site saying that Jews believe in Jesus, that Jews think he matched the messiah prophecy , ...

Sure, as soon as you provide a link to an atheist site saying that atheists believe God certainly exists. What's the point of making such ridiculous arguments as if it's significant that one cannot produce a contradiction in terms? (using the word "Jews" to only refer to those who do not believe in Jesus or think he matched the messiah prophecy). What's the point you're trying to make? That those who adhere to Judaism don't believe in Jesus or think he matched the messiah prophecy? Duh, don't you think that's one of the reasons they stick with judaism for now? Kinda speaks for itself doesn't it? They'd be exposing themselves as incredible hypocrites if they acknowledged otherwise. Which doesn't mean those types can't be around as well, but it's unlikely that they are very numerous or that they would go public on what you would call a "Jewish site" (promoting Judaism which teaches and argues for why one shouldn't believe in Jesus or think that he matched the messiah prophecy). A site that argues for Judaism and therefore can be called a "Jewish site" is obviously not going to argue the opposite of Judaism. That would be a little weird (allthough they may hide contradictory teachings with sophisticated language, I don't count that as arguing the opposite of Judaism, what you described would be arguing the opposite of what Judaism teaches about this subject).

Besides any site that does argue for belief in Jesus and that he matched the messiah prophecies probably no longer counts as a Jewish site in your book. Even if they did contradictory teach (another form of) Judaism along with it or refer to themselves as Messianic Jews (or Messianic Judaism):
Messianic Judaism: wikipedia

I guess sites produced by these people no longer count as "Jewish sites" in your book. So what's really the point of this semantic dancing excercise?
edit on 5-7-2017 by whereislogic because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 5 2017 @ 06:43 AM
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a reply to: whereislogic

Oh so you admit your ONLY using Christian theology to tell Jews what they did or did not believe...

Solid.. real solid..

The point I'm making is that the Christian assertions abou what Jews believe and or believed are not what Jews actually believed..

That doesn't totally discredit Jesus, hypothetically he specifically came to make changes.. so the Jews could have just had the prophecy wrong..

But pretending like they always expected a son of God , that Jesus matched the prophecy as they believed it and that all the other messiahs that Jews venerate are false isn't accurate and is very dishonest.



I knew you had pulled all that stuff off of Christian revisionist sites..


PS please add spaces.. makes you want to just skim your posts rather than read the whole thing.



posted on Jul, 5 2017 @ 06:58 AM
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originally posted by: JoshuaCox
a reply to: whereislogic

Oh so you admit your ONLY using Christian theology to tell Jews what they did or did not believe...

I think I gave you plenty of historical Jewish sources about the subject of "Messiah". Along and in comparison with what the bible (another Jewish source, written by Jews, Hebrews or Israelites from Genesis to Revelation) teaches about this subject. You can twist it into whatever you want, it doesn't bother me cause it's not going to change the historical facts anyway.



posted on Jul, 5 2017 @ 10:38 AM
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a reply to: JoshuaCox

Sorry, sorry
Who are you to decide what my aunt considers herself to be is tight or wrong, you arrogant self deluded nobody

Who do you think you are
My Aunty Hazel considers herself a Messianic Jew, Star of David, Jewish heritage from Europe, European Jewish Heritage (do you know what that means) and background and you, you petulant arrogant nobody, you decide what she is, you, an Internet nobody decides what category she is labeled according to your opinion
Your opinion is above what she calls herself because you are so self righteous and arrogant you decide what other people are.
They can't be anything unless you say it's ok

She can't claim her Jewish heritage because you say she can't, you are not worth this



posted on Jul, 5 2017 @ 11:00 AM
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a reply to: Raggedyman

Because that is the definition of Judaism and Christianity..

Just because you have one Christian who believes Satan and god are actually boys, doesn't change the Christian cannon..

Just because your aunt considers herself a Jew and also believes in Jesus. Doesn't add Jesus to the Jewish cannon...

It's not me rejecting her claim.. it is every single Jewish organization in history..


Obviously...


The difference is I'm taking the millinia old opinionof pretty mush every single Jewish scholar or historian for all of recorded history..

And your taking aunt hazels word for it..

And I bet aunt hazel the was raised in the middle of a 90% Christian society.. hmm shocking she has merged the 2 religions..



posted on Jul, 5 2017 @ 11:03 AM
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a reply to: whereislogic

You have yet to give a single example that discredits anything I have listed.

Because what I have listed is the millinia old beliefs of the Jewish people and always has been....

Anyone Can pop on any site dedicated to Judaism and they will find the same things..


What they will not find is a bunch of Jews who claim Christianity really has it right.. we are just being stubborn..

Which is the normal Christian spiel.

edit on 5-7-2017 by JoshuaCox because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 5 2017 @ 11:08 AM
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a reply to: Raggedyman


Here is what aunt hazel is in the eyes of the Jewish community..

And exactly why once you believe in Jesus as gods son, your beliefs no longer gel with Jewish theology.



www.myjewishlearning.com...

"What About Jews for Jesus?
Jews for Jesus is one branch of a wider movement called Messianic Jews. Members of this movement are not accepted as Jewish by the broader Jewish community, even though some adherents may have been born Jewish and their ritual life includes Jewish practices. While an individual Jew could accept Jesus as the messiah and technically remain Jewish — rejection of any core Jewish belief or practice does not negate one’s Jewishness — the beliefs of messianic Jews are theologically incompatible with Judaism."

edit on 5-7-2017 by JoshuaCox because: (no reason given)




edit on 5-7-2017 by JoshuaCox because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 5 2017 @ 11:10 AM
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a reply to: whereislogic

"The question “was Jesus the messiah?” requires a prior question: “What is the definition of messiah?” The Prophets (Nevi’im), who wrote hundreds of years before Jesus’ birth, envisioned a messianic age as as a period of universal peace, in which war and hunger are eradicated, and humanity accepts God’s sovereignty. By the first century, the view developed that the messianic age would witness a general resurrection of the dead, the in-gathering of all the Jews, including the 10 lost tribes, to the land of Israel, a final judgment and universal peace.

Some Jews expected the messiah to be a descendant of King David (based on an interpretation of God’s promise to David in 2 Samuel 7 of an eternal kingdom). The Dead Sea Scrolls speak of two messiahs: one a military leader and the other a priest. Still other Jews expected the prophet Elijah, or the angel Michael, or Enoch, or any number of other figures to usher in the messianic age.
Stories in the Gospels about Jesus healing the sick, raising the dead, and proclaiming the imminence of the kingdom of heaven suggest that his followers regarded him as appointed by God to bring about the messianic age.

More than 1,000 years after Jesus’ crucifixion, the medieval sage Maimonides (also known as Rambam) laid out in his Mishneh Torah specific things Jews believe the messiah must accomplish in order to confirm his identity — among them restoring the kingdom of David to its former glory, achieving victory in battle against Israel’s enemies, rebuilding the temple (which the Romans destroyed in 70 CE) and ingathering the exiles to the land of Israel. “And if he’s not successful with this, or if he is killed, it’s known that he is not the one that was promised by the Torah,” Maimonides wrote."


www.myjewishlearning.com...






Any Jewish source you go to will tell you exactly the same.



posted on Jul, 5 2017 @ 11:11 AM
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a reply to: JoshuaCox


Then please provide a link.. to a Jewish site saying that Jews believe in Jesus, that Jews think he matched the messiah prophecy ---------------------

jewsforjesus.org...

edit on 5-7-2017 by Seede because: corrected site error



posted on Jul, 5 2017 @ 11:15 AM
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a reply to: Seede

a reply to: Raggedyman


Here is what the Jewish community thinks about Jews for Jesus..

And exactly why once you believe in Jesus as gods son, your beliefs no longer gel with Jewish theology.



www.myjewishlearning.com...

"What About Jews for Jesus?
Jews for Jesus is one branch of a wider movement called Messianic Jews. Members of this movement are not accepted as Jewish by the broader Jewish community, even though some adherents may have been born Jewish and their ritual life includes Jewish practices. While an individual Jew could accept Jesus as the messiah and technically remain Jewish — rejection of any core Jewish belief or practice does not negate one’s Jewishness — the beliefs of messianic Jews are theologically incompatible with Judaism."



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