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Is God Evil???

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posted on Jul, 5 2017 @ 11:23 AM
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originally posted by: Raggedyman
a reply to: JoshuaCox

Sorry, sorry
Who are you to decide what my aunt considers herself to be is tight or wrong, you arrogant self deluded nobody

Who do you think you are
My Aunty Hazel considers herself a Messianic Jew, Star of David, Jewish heritage from Europe, European Jewish Heritage (do you know what that means) and background and you, you petulant arrogant nobody, you decide what she is, you, an Internet nobody decides what category she is labeled according to your opinion
Your opinion is above what she calls herself because you are so self righteous and arrogant you decide what other people are.
They can't be anything unless you say it's ok

She can't claim her Jewish heritage because you say she can't, you are not worth this


You took that incrdibly personally...wow.

And from the sounds of it, your auntie Hazel is a good deal like other religious people.
Cherry pick whatever the hell you want from one or more religious faiths, mix in some textbook religious faith and some things that are both made up and altered and then call yourself whatever you feel like.


Nothing new and nothing different to see.




posted on Jul, 5 2017 @ 11:34 AM
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a reply to: JoshuaCox

Sorry Josh, yours is an opinion, you are not an oracle
An opinion based on what you believe

It's irrelevant to me



posted on Jul, 5 2017 @ 11:34 AM
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a reply to: ReyaPhemhurth

Meh



posted on Jul, 5 2017 @ 12:16 PM
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a reply to: JoshuaCox


"What About Jews for Jesus? Jews for Jesus is one branch of a wider movement called Messianic Jews. Members of this movement are not accepted as Jewish by the broader Jewish community, even though some adherents may have been born Jewish and their ritual life includes Jewish practices. While an individual Jew could accept Jesus as the messiah and technically remain Jewish — rejection of any core Jewish belief or practice does not negate one’s Jewishness — the beliefs of messianic Jews are theologically incompatible with Judaism."

Of course they are called Messianic Jews. The Christian Jew is not Orthodox or Conservative or Reformed Jew. Common sense tells you that that they are not accepted into the Judaic realm. After all it were these people who nailed Jesus to the tree. Jews as well as many other groups of people had many Messiah's down through their histories. But that is not what you asked. You asked -----------

Quote Then please provide a link.. to a Jewish site saying that Jews believe in Jesus, that Jews think he matched the messiah prophecy Unquote ----------- That is what I did. All the rest of your hype was smoke and mirrors and not on topic.

Quote "the beliefs of messianic Jews are theologically incompatible with Judaism." Unquote

Absolutely they are. They have been since Jesus began His ministry. Most all of the doctrine of Jesus is not and has never been in compliance with rabbinic doctrine. Things such as circumcision, blood sacrifice, kingdom of heaven, Messiah, Begotten Son, accountability of sin, and forgiveness were not and are still not accepted by the three mainstream divisions of rabbinic Judaism. Jew as religion and Jew as nation are two distinct and at times different aspects.

Simply because Jesus was rejected by most Jews does not influence the fact that He as well as His mother or father or any of His relations lost their linage. The NT is a evolution of Judaism to Christianity. Many happenings in the NT are rabbinic thought and have to be read in the contextual understanding. That was because no Jew or Gentile had ever heard of the doctrine that Jesus taught. They were all born and raised into temple authority. The NT was a gradual teaching of conversion to Christian theology. Almost all of the people of that time were not taught nor heard of the doctrine of Jesus.
In fact all of the apostles but the one who wrote Revelation died with no knowledge of the book of Revelation.



posted on Jul, 5 2017 @ 12:36 PM
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originally posted by: Raggedyman
a reply to: ReyaPhemhurth

Meh


Right back at ya, fella.



posted on Jul, 5 2017 @ 12:44 PM
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a reply to: Raggedyman

No what the Jewish religions belief system is and was is recorded record. Not opinion. There are still many many Jewish organizations and internet sources to check.

An opinion would be "I think all Jews are awesome!"

A fact is Jews in the past and present have maintained "X" belief system.

It is not really debatable when it is easy to check.



posted on Jul, 5 2017 @ 12:51 PM
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originally posted by: JoshuaCox
a reply to: Raggedyman

No what the Jewish religions belief system is and was is recorded record. Not opinion. There are still many many Jewish organizations and internet sources to check.

An opinion would be "I think all Jews are awesome!"

A fact is Jews in the past and present have maintained "X" belief system.

It is not really debatable when it is easy to check.



I'm picking up what you're dropping, but I'm doubtful Raggedy will do so.

I mean, regardless of how you look at it, a strawman will always be raggedy in nature.



posted on Jul, 5 2017 @ 12:53 PM
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a reply to: Seede

We are taking about the cultural aspects and what is and is not Jewish dogma not the genetic factors.

As far as religion goes, once you believe Jesus is the messiah and the son of God, then you are no longer a religion Jew. You have created your own sect .

Christianity and the Jesus story is basically the opposite of the Jewish interpretation. You can say they had it wrong, that's fine..

But people don't get to assign beliefs to them to validate their own later religions sect.

A son of God doesn't exist in Judaism.. he was not predicted to have a son and no Jew is expecting a son of God to arrive.

Their messiah is a human political and military leader who's hereditary line will rule Israel through a great time of peace.


Now that doesn't instantly invalidate Christianity as hypothetically Jesus came because they had it wrong, so that was just something the Jews didn't know yet, or had forgotten.

Christians through revisionist history have assigned all of those beliefs to Judaism to lend itself credibility .



posted on Jul, 5 2017 @ 02:18 PM
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a reply to: JoshuaCox


A son of God doesn't exist in Judaism.. he was not predicted to have a son and no Jew is expecting a son of God to arrive.


Psalm 2

6"Yet I have set my King on my holy hill of Zion."

7 I will tell of the decree. Yahweh said to me, "You are my son. Today I have become your father.

8 Ask of me, and I will give the nations for your inheritance, the uttermost parts of the earth for your possession.

2 Samuel 7

Moreover Yahweh tells you that Yahweh will make you a house. 12When your days are fulfilled, and you shall sleep with your fathers, I will set up your seed after you, who shall proceed out of your bowels, and I will establish his kingdom. 13He shall build a house for my name, and I will establish the throne of his kingdom forever. 14I will be his father, and he shall be my son.

Christians may interpret these verses as referring to Jesus. It becomes a matter of some kind of ontological sonship, as opposed to an honorary title among Judaic followers.

Some Christians take it as an adoptionism, "Jesus, adopted Son of God" at baptism. But yes, Christians do tend to try to interpret Jewish religion for Jews, a projecting, then claim that Christianity is the fruit of Judaism.


Christians through revisionist history have assigned all of those beliefs to Judaism to lend itself credibility .

Yes that. But on the other hand:
2 Corinthians 3

15But to this day, when Moses is read, a veil lies on their heart. 16But whenever one turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away. 17Now the Lord is the Spirit and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.

They may see this as permission to do so.

Yes, it is unjustified for one person to say to another "You believe this, and you believe that."
edit on 5-7-2017 by pthena because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 5 2017 @ 03:05 PM
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a reply to: pthena

But no Jew agrees with you...

The Bible is big enough to interpret anything you want to..

I'm sure people can provide interpretations of anything they want as eluded to by the thousand different denominations of Christianity.

You cannot use the Christian bibles version of the Torah as proof of what Jews believed . The Torah and bible are not as similar as they should be.


From the pov of ancient Jews , modern Jews and all the Jews in between that was not their interpretation.



posted on Jul, 5 2017 @ 03:15 PM
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a reply to: JoshuaCox


From the pov of ancient Jews , modern Jews and all the Jews in between that was not their interpretation.

I was attempting to show that I agree with you on that, while at the same time showing the verses that Christians may use as support.

The timing of the beginnings of Christianity may coincide with the timeframe of Psalms of Solomon. The Messiah, of David's line would show up to put down the Herodians(Edomite), after Herod had eliminated the Hasmoneans (Not descended from David). The time would have been ripe right about the time of Herod's death for the Son of David to arrive.



posted on Jul, 5 2017 @ 04:14 PM
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a reply to: JoshuaCox


A son of God doesn't exist in Judaism.. he was not predicted to have a son and no Jew is expecting a son of God to arrive.

You are not correct in that statement. I know what you mean but you did not type it right. Jesus was tried on that very same premise. The Sanhedrin charge against Jesus was that he claimed to be a son of God but was not a son of God. He was acquitted of that charge by the Sanhedrin and found to be a son of God but not God.

The Nazarene movement embraces the belief that Jesus was not only a son of God but was and is now The Begotten Son of God as well as the begotten son of man. As He is restored with God He is now the Begotten Word Of God as well as the first born of God.

You may not agree and that is fine. I am not deriding you in your belief. Only showing you the way James [Nazarene's] believed. You are correct in that the Jewish Messiah is expected to be a seed of King David, live a glorious life and replaced with his seed. The Jew does not subscribe to the notion of heavenly Messiah, in that you are correct.



posted on Jul, 5 2017 @ 04:17 PM
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a reply to: pthena

Except that is the least of the inconsistencies in the messiah prophecy...

Everything else requires people to believe that the prophecy was all in analogies, rather than speaking plainly. As Jews always interpreted it to mean..

For example a the messiah has to free the Jews from slavery. As Cyrus the great did to earn his title of messiah.

The Christian interpretation is that "oh it doesn't mean ACTUALLY freeing them from bondage.. it means freeing them from a spiritual bondage..

Even though for every messiah previously it was a literal interpretation of the criteria that validated them.



posted on Jul, 5 2017 @ 04:24 PM
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a reply to: Seede

Dude you can look that up on any jewish site.. not Jews for Jesus...lol..and they will ALL say that:

A) all of the son of God stuff is a totally Christian dogma.

B) that the messiahS ((plural) were predicted to be human beings, not Demi-gods

C) every inch of the comming to save our souls stuff is totally Christian.

Every single one..

Your taking the messianic Jewish opinion.. which is a totally separate religion and is not considered Judaism by any Jews..



posted on Jul, 5 2017 @ 04:30 PM
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a reply to: Seede

www.myjewishlearning.com...

www.jewfaq.org...

www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org...



Those are Jewish sites by Jews for Jews...

Your going to Christian theology sites and assuming it is the same story in both places..



posted on Jul, 5 2017 @ 09:48 PM
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originally posted by: JoshuaCox
a reply to: whereislogic

And not surprisingly we have known about the hittites since at least the 1800s...

en.m.wikipedia.org...


So your remembering the encyclopedia denying them is showing how solid your memory is....


From your link:

As archaeological discoveries revealed the scale of the Hittite kingdom in the second half of the 19th century,...

This event is what I described as "up until some archeologists dug up the whole civilization". Of course wikipedia won't bother mentioning how the word "fictitious" was used by the Encyclopaedia Britannica before these archeological discoveries because:

Before the discoveries, the only source of information about Hittites had been the Old Testament.

So they (those behind the Encyclopaedia Britannica and others) called this civilization "fictituous" because these people don't trust the bible and therefore they were definitively proven wrong as soon as these discoveries were made in the second half of the 19th century. What I meant with "remember" wasn't referring to actually being alive back then, but remembering that this was how things happened in the past from my studies (of history and the reliability of the bible). The trackrecord of being right is much better for the bible than for historians and those who bring out new editions of the Encyclopaedia Britannica every few decades (updating with corrections of their earlier mistakes and bad assumptions). There isn't a history book yet that didn't have to be revised or corrected as new information comes in, but not the bible. The bible is completely unique in this as a reliable historical record being proven right again and again throughout history (while constantly under criticism when the evidence hasn't been discovered yet, then when the evidence is discovered for something it says, the critics quickly pretend they never got it wrong and move on to the next piece of criticism for which the evidence hasn't been discovered yet or is less convincing).



posted on Jul, 5 2017 @ 10:19 PM
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a reply to: whereislogic

In the 1800s...


Not when you were in high school as you claimed to remember..

Unless your 150 years old.

Oh and "a reliable historical document". is just hilarious...

Because we have absolutely found a record of a global flood that happened 10,000 years ago that required 5 times the amount of water on the planet.. oh no we haven't...

Well we definitely can clearly see the genetic bottle neck in our DNA where 10,000 years ago all of humanity was incested into existence by Noah's family.. oh nope that's not there either...

Nor can you fit 2 of every animal on a boat the size of the arc..

What about the fact we know the romans ABSOLUTELY did not require everyone to return to their city of birth for a census?? That that would be logistically insane if not impossible and would literally take years with donkey being the main firm of travel..

What about the creation sequence where the Bible claims the water and fish came BEFORE the sun and stars??

What abour the time table that says the universe was created in a week, not 14 billion years???

Sodom and ghamora were not named that, nor were they destroyed by sulfur from the sky, and no the salt pillars are not people..

No a person could not live in a whale for a month.

No their are not unicorns as the Bible claims..

Exc.

Exc..

Exc...

Every single actual testable claim the Bible makes has not only been debunked.. it is laughable..






edit on 5-7-2017 by JoshuaCox because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 5 2017 @ 10:28 PM
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a reply to: whereislogic

Also I just did some quick reading on the
hittites.

The Bible claimed that the hittites were a smaller empire than Juda and actual history says the Hittite empire rivaled Egypt.


So yet another thing the bible got wrong.



posted on Jul, 5 2017 @ 10:29 PM
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originally posted by: JoshuaCox
a reply to: whereislogic
Jews don't believe the other messiahs are false, Christians do.

Perhaps I should have just given at least one example or the context of the false Messiahs spoken of in The Jewish Encyclopedia that I was referring to earlier because I skipped that before:

False Messiahs. After Jesus’ death, the Jews followed many false Messiahs, as Jesus had foretold. (Mt 24:5) “From Josephus it appears that in the first century before the destruction of the Temple [in 70 C.E.] a number of Messiahs arose promising relief from the Roman yoke, and finding ready followers.” (The Jewish Encyclopedia, Vol. X, p. 251) Then, in 132 C.E., Bar Kokhba (Bar Koziba), one of the most prominent of the pseudomessiahs, was hailed as Messiah-king. In crushing the revolt that he led, Roman soldiers killed thousands of Jews. While such false Messiahs illustrate that many Jews were primarily interested in a political Messiah, they also show that they properly expected a personal Messiah, not just a Messianic era or Messianic nation. Some believe Bar Kokhba was a descendant of David, which would have aided his Messianic claim. However, since the genealogical records evidently were destroyed in 70 C.E., later claimants to the office of Messiah could not establish proof that they were of David’s family. (The Messiah therefore had to appear before 70 C.E., as Jesus did, in order to prove his claim as the heir of David. This shows that persons still looking for the Messiah’s earthly appearance are in error.) Among such later false claimants to messiahship were Moses of Crete, who asserted he would divide the sea between Crete and Palestine, and Serenus, who misled many Jews in Spain. The Jewish Encyclopedia lists 28 false Messiahs between the years 132 C.E. and 1744 C.E.—Vol. X, pp. 252-255.

This has nothing to do with Christians believing in false Messiahs. Or even believing that "the other messiahs are false". The example given above and the people described above did not believe these self-professed messiahs were false, that's the whole point I was making. If they fall for it, they must be in expectation of a Messiah otherwise they (the Jews spoken of above) wouldn't fall for it. And this historical fact that these Jews believed in these false Messiahs as if they were real messiahs is supported by Jewish sources such as The Jewish Encyclopedia. That's why I only quoted the line:

The Jewish Encyclopedia lists 28 false Messiahs between the years 132 C.E. and 1744 C.E.—Vol. X, pp. 252-255.

It was meant as corroborating evidence from a Jewish source because I knew ahead of time* you were going to diss the bible as reliable evidence and biasedly demand a Jewish source. The main points were already made (that "Messiah" means "anointed one" and what the difference is between the various Messiahs mentioned in the bible and which prophecies apply to the specific Messiah that is called Jesus Christ and how "christ" means messiah/anointed one, and the related evidence that these prophecies apply to Jesus + background information), the topic of false messiahs was a side issue (or at least I decided to keep that subject as short as possible, the first time I skipped that subsection completely. *: I knew because it's a pattern described in the bible that people follow (for example at 2 Timothy 4:3,4; you have your preferred set of teachers and do not put up with the benefical teaching from the bible, God's word of truth).
edit on 5-7-2017 by whereislogic because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 5 2017 @ 10:33 PM
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a reply to: whereislogic

Still reading but can I have a link please.

You didn't get that from the Jewish encyclopedia did you??

You got that from a Christian conspiracy site saying the jewish encyclopedia says that didn't you??
edit on 5-7-2017 by JoshuaCox because: (no reason given)




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