Is God Evil???

originally posted by: ChesterJohn
a reply to: EasternShadow

No not what I am saying at all. But all things work together for good to those that love God and are called according to his purpose.

If you are not taking God's calling personally then all thing do not work together for good but for evil.

From theocracy point of view, "rule of God" or "God himself is recognized as the head" of the state, prevent taking God's calling personally. It's been recorded times after times throughout history that what you said is exactly what had happen. All things work together for evil.

We are fortune today, theocracy is dying by the hand of secularism. Only through secularity some people can see that God's calling personally. Otherwise, the entire humankind will perish in centuries crusades out of blind faith to the "rule of god " This crusaders claimed they love God too. But is it God's purpose for them to die? I'm very sure that's not what God purpose because God command, "You shall not murder" and "You shall love your neighbor".

Despite God's calling personally, we still see today that some minority force their community to work together for evil. So what's wrong with this picture?

a reply to: EasternShadow

Secularism brought us the joys of social Darwinism, Stalin, Mao as well as Pol Pot to name a few

Social Darwinism the theory that individuals, groups, and peoples are subject to the same Darwinian laws of natural selection as plants and animals. Now largely discredited, social Darwinism was advocated by Herbert Spencer and others in the late 19th and early 20th centuries and was used to justify political conservatism, imperialism, and racism and to discourage intervention and reform.


Now that doesnt mean all atheists and secularists are evil, just that there are some who are as evil as those who used christianity and Christs teachings, (as manipulated as they were, remembering that those in laity couldnt read and were lied to by the clergy) to kill.
While I tend to agree that christianity is on the wane in some situations, I dont know if its dying.
Many non western countries are embracing it, maybe not the US and other western societies, country's in moral and financial decline.

I would disagree that we are fortunate today, the West grew off the back of the Luther's reformation, certainly nothing secular society provided
It seems the West is dying, I wonder what is causing that?

a reply to: EasternShadow

if God was in control then you would all be on your faces in fear not speaking a word.

While God has a plan he also lets man have his free will but int he end the plan of God prevails.

originally posted by: Raggedyman
a reply to: EasternShadow

Secularism brought us the joys of social Darwinism, Stalin, Mao as well as Pol Pot to name a few

Social Darwinism the theory that individuals, groups, and peoples are subject to the same Darwinian laws of natural selection as plants and animals. Now largely discredited, social Darwinism was advocated by Herbert Spencer and others in the late 19th and early 20th centuries and was used to justify political conservatism, imperialism, and racism and to discourage intervention and reform.

Indeed. And so are Humanism, Rationalism, Empiricsm, Equalism, Civic Nationalism, Anarcho-capitalism, Liberal feminism, Geolibertarianism, Political Liberalism etc...Anything that qualify or related to heresay and gnosticism by the Christian Churches. We couldn't discuss such subject without the risk of prosecution in the past. Remember Galileo?

This Holy Tribunal being therefore of intention to proceed against the disorder and mischief thence resulting, which went on increasing to the prejudice of the Holy Faith, by command of His Holiness and of the Most Eminent Lords Cardinals of this supreme and universal Inquisition, the two propositions of the stability of the Sun and the motion of the Earth were by the theological Qualifiers qualified as follows:

The proposition that the Sun is the center of the world and does not move from its place is absurd and false philosophically and formally heretical, because it is expressly contrary to Holy Scripture.

The proposition that the Earth is not the center of the world and immovable but that it moves, and also with a diurnal motion, is equally absurd and false philosophically and theologically considered at least erroneous in faith.

Papal Condemnation of Galileo

But thanks to secularism we are now able to discuss it freely on the internet.

Some secular doctrine ideologies are advantegous and beneficial to humankind especially in medical and conservation pratices, as well as, some are flaws with false assumption like Social Darwinism, appeal to natural selection. Nothing is perfect. Even Bible fail to demonstrate the perfection of God. We human just have to keep studying to improve ourself.

originally posted by: Raggedyman
Now that doesnt mean all atheists and secularists are evil, just that there are some who are as evil as those who used christianity and Christs teachings, (as manipulated as they were, remembering that those in laity couldnt read and were lied to by the clergy) to kill.
While I tend to agree that christianity is on the wane in some situations, I dont know if its dying.
Many non western countries are embracing it, maybe not the US and other western societies, country's in moral and financial decline.

I would disagree that we are fortunate today, the West grew off the back of the Luther's reformation, certainly nothing secular society provided
It seems the West is dying, I wonder what is causing that?

Secularism isn't about abolishing Christianity or any religion. It isnt about turning everyone into atheist. Or total rejection of God.

Secularism is the principle of the separation of government institutions and persons mandated to represent the state from religious institutions and religious dignitaries (the attainment of such is termed secularity). One manifestation of secularism is asserting the right to be free from religious rule and teachings, or, in a state declared to be neutral on matters of belief, from the imposition by government of religion or religious practices upon its people.[Notes 1] Another manifestation of secularism is the view that public activities and decisions, especially political ones, should be uninfluenced by religious beliefs or practices.[1][Notes 2]

Holyoake invented the term "secularism" to describe his views of promoting a social order separate from religion, without actively dismissing or criticizing religious belief. An agnostic himself, Holyoake argued that "Secularism is not an argument against Christianity, it is one independent of it. It does not question the pretensions of Christianity; it advances others. Secularism does not say there is no light or guidance elsewhere, but maintains that there is light and guidance in secular truth, whose conditions and sanctions exist independently, and act forever. Secular knowledge is manifestly that kind of knowledge which is founded in this life, which relates to the conduct of this life, conduces to the welfare of this life, and is capable of being tested by the experience of this life."[6]

Secularism

Secularism ethics:
Main articles: Secular ethics and Secular religion
George Holyoake's 1896 publication English Secularism describes secularism as follows:

Secularism is a code of duty pertaining to this life, founded on considerations purely human, and intended mainly for those who find theology indefinite or inadequate, unreliable or unbelievable. Its essential principles are three: (1) The improvement of this life by material means. (2) That science is the available Providence of man. (3) That it is good to do good. Whether there be other good or not, the good of the present life is good, and it is good to seek that good.[24]

Secularism in late 20th century political philosophy

It can be seen by many of the organizations (NGO's) for secularism that they prefer to define secularism as the common ground for all life stance groups, religious or atheistic, to thrive in, in a society that honors freedom of speech and conscience. An example of that is the National Secular Society in the UK. This is a common understanding of what secularism stands for among many of its activists throughout the world. However, many scholars of Christianity and conservative politicians seem to interpret secularism more often than not, as an antithesis of religion and an attempt to push religion out of society and replace it with atheism or a void of values; nihilism. This dual aspect (as noted above in "Secular ethics") has created difficulties in political discourse on the subject.

But Secularism is killing Theocracy as main government. We dont attribue Godhood to our democratic representative. Our president is only human with no divine status. No secular democratic leaders can claim themselves "God of the state."
The separation of politic from religion is near complete and supported world wide with variant level.

Secular society[edit]
In studies of religion, modern democracies are generally recognized as secular. This is due to the near-complete freedom of religion (beliefs on religion generally are not subject to legal or social sanctions), and the lack of authority of religious leaders over political decisions. Nevertheless, religious beliefs are widely considered by many people to be a relevant part of the political discourse in many of these countries (most notably, in the United States and Saudi Arabia). This contrasts with other developed nations, such as United Kingdom, France, and China, where religious references are generally considered out-of-place in mainstream politics.

Secularism

originally posted by: ChesterJohn
a reply to: EasternShadow

if God was in control then you would all be on your faces in fear not speaking a word.

And that would be a fearsome God. Not a loveable one.

originally posted by: ChesterJohn
While God has a plan he also lets man have his free will but int he end the plan of God prevails.

Then by this notion you have agree that god is evil. Which isnt my intention.

a reply to: EasternShadow

The true and living the LORD God Almighty, our Lord Jesus Christ is and never will be evil.

a reply to: ChesterJohn

But the saying, "God has plan for everyone", discredit many hard works for people like parents and others and effectively paint the image that your Lord Jesus Christ is Evil. It's odd the Christians themselves paint such image and not the atheist.

If the true and living the Lord God Almight, your Lord Jesus Christ is and never will be evil then.

1. He should never and will not predestine human fate. The destiny and fate is the choice of everyone. Not the God Almighty. Unless God is Evil, there isnt any plan for everyone and will never be any plan for everyone. The saying that God has plan for everyone is a lie. You dont lie in the name of God if you have faith that your Lord is and never will be evil.

2. What you write reflect your inner self and what image you stand for. If the Bible is the word from God, then the Almighty shall never reflect himself in highly negative energy. The anger, the cursing/condemnation, the oppressing of human in term of global disaster, the threatening of eternal punishment, intolerency, favoritism toward certain race, the terror, etc... which happen so frequently in the Bible is complete opposite of what is painted by love, forgiving, justice, mercy and all other positive quality that The Almighty should and will always presented as a Good God. If human Gautama Buddha is capable of exemplary highest human composure and passiveness, the Bible God should be ashamed for himself for acting like immature spoil brat like Zeus.

Becoming Good isnt about showing the power invested in you and terrorize people to force submission and obediency. Good isnt about selfishness and arrogant. Good isnt about defining,classifying,separating and treating people unequally either by faith or by social class system. But Good is about understanding, tolerancy, cooperation and integration into one equal standing for the benefit of everyone. Good is about sacrifice own self pride so others could be saved. Good is about making everyone successful happy with their life. In turn they could enjoy the purpose of creation and be grateful, instead of fear, insecure and being forced. With joy and happiness come respect. And with respect comes love.

If the Bible God cant comprehend and compromise even such basic "Good" morality of love and justice, then He shouldnt be God.


Peace.

After thinking some more, I've come to the conclusion that God can be neither good nor evil. He is above such concepts, if he exists.

What is good? What is evil? They're human concepts. Define them. To hurt someone else intentionally and derive pleasure from it, is that evil? To allow another being to suffer needlessly when we can stop it, is that evil?

When a Lion bites off a Gazelle's rear leg and leaves it thrashing on the ground in agony whilst it eats the leg in no rush whatsoever, is that lion evil? We wouldn't ordinarily say so, because we believe it is an animal of inferior intelligence to ourselves thus it can't understand such concepts - it acts on instinct alone. It eats the leg to satiate its hunger but is ignorant to the suffering of the Gazelle. Lions don't do mercy killings.

But surely to any being who has the power to sculpt the entire universe, we too are beings of inferior intelligence who tend to act on instinct and impulse (no matter how much we dress ourselves up with laws, society, culture, and so on), and that being is far, far beyond such simple concepts as good and evil.

God command human to prosper and multiply. Yet God is also regret of creating human.

You are taught to forgive your enemies, to be kind to each other etc... Yet you are also taught to destroy your enemies like the Amaleks, including infants, women, Oxes and all living things, to the point of genocide.

1 Samuel 15:3 Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass.

Being ambiguity in morality "Good" vs "Evil" is a thing. But being inconsistent and self contradiction is blantant stupidity and ignorant.

Every flaws in the Bible is the doing of Dark Ages clerics. It's evident the Bible isnt the words of God but works written by multiple Dark Age authors suffering mandela effect. Delusion if you may wish to call it.

a reply to: EasternShadow

to your first point 1). IN every case of the word, and words in the Bible are important. Never once is predestinate used in a context of ALL MEN. In its context it only involves those who are Christians. I will list here the verses in their context for you to see The verses are always about beleivers not unsaved.

Romans 8:26 Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.
27 And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God.
28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.
29 ¶ For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
Ephesians 1:3 ¶ Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:
4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.
7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;
8 Wherein he hath abounded toward us in all wisdom and prudence;
9 Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself:
10 That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:
11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:
12 That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.

That is it only 4 times in all it's uses is predestination is something that only applies to those who have trusted Christ already. Never does it teach some are chosen to be saved and other chosen to go to hell. The choice is ours and ours alone.

Here is a link to a study on Calvinism and its T.U.L.I.P. especially the "U" Unconditional election. www.kingjamesbiblebelievers.com...

Those who hold that God chooses some to be saved or not be saved is a fabrication of demented men who wanted a following after themselves and not part of the truth of the word of God.

In response to your point 2) It is God Holiness that requires a punishment for sin/evil/iniquity/negative energy what ever you want to call it. If he chose to wipe out a whole population of people for corruption they were involved in he has the right to do so. Even if we look at it and think it is evil. He did afterwords repent of what he did and made a promise by creating the rainbow to remind us of it, that he would never destroy the whole of creation for mans corruption by flood. And if you read the Bible you will see that there was a flood when we first come into the reading of the Bible in Genesis 1:2. Remember we are not holy we are born into iniquity and sin. We are made Holy because of our faith in Christ finished work on the cross as a sacrifice for our sins. And as seen above in Eph 1:4 he being Jesus, once we believe, makes us holy and with out blame before him in love.

Many repeat things they hear others say and never really study it out and see if it is really true. God/Jesus has never hurt innocent people as some would have us to believe. One thing Christians, true Christians are never called to kill anyone who will not believe on Jesus Christ. That is Gods job. If Islam's god Allah was the true god he would not need radical followers to kill those who will not believe in him. The god of Islam is not the true and living God. The true and living God in The LORD God Almighty Jesus Christ.

originally posted by: ChesterJohn
to your first point 1). IN every case of the word, and words in the Bible are important. Never once is predestinate used in a context of ALL MEN. In its context it only involves those who are Christians. I will list here the verses in their context for you to see The verses are always about beleivers not unsaved.

So God only predestine Christians fate while others are free to choose their own. It's good the atheist, Buddhist, Muslim, Hindus etc..can choose their own fate. Is it Good for Christians?

Jesus recognize Judaism. Jesus recognize the early Christians followers. Jesus does not recognize Paul and the later Council of Nicea Christians. Therefore, your definition of unsaved is screwed. Jesus save everyone. All human. Not just the later Christians created over 300 years after his death.

originally posted by: ChesterJohn
That is it only 4 times in all it's uses is predestination is something that only applies to those who have trusted Christ already. Never does it teach some are chosen to be saved and other chosen to go to hell. The choice is ours and ours alone.

Here is a link to a study on Calvinism and its T.U.L.I.P. especially the "U" Unconditional election. www.kingjamesbiblebelievers.com...

Yes. 4 times in Ephesians. Ephesians was supposed to be written by Paul while in Rome prison. It's Paul's opinion. Or so it is believed. Recent scholars challenge Ephesians as Pauline authorship:

Authorship[edit]
Main article: Authorship of the Pauline Epistles
The first verse in the letter identifies Paul as its author. While early lists of New Testament books, including Marcion's canon and the Muratorian fragment, attribute the letter to Paul,[9] more recently there have been challenges to Pauline authorship on the basis of the letter's characteristically non-Pauline syntax, terminology, and eschatology.[10]

There are four main theories in biblical scholarship that address the question of Pauline authorship.[11]

The traditional view that the epistle is written by Paul is supported by scholars that include Frank Thielman, Ezra Abbot, Asting, Gaugler, Grant, Harnack, Haupt, Fenton John Anthony Hort, Klijn, Johann David Michaelis, A. Robert, and André Feuillet, Sanders, Schille, Brooke Foss Westcott, and Theodor Zahn.[1] For a defense of the Pauline authorship of Ephesians, see Ephesians: An Exegetical Commentary by Harold Hoehner, pp 2–61.[2]

A second position suggests that Ephesians was dictated by Paul with interpolations from another author. Some of the scholars that espouse this view include Albertz, Benoit, Cerfaux, Goguel, Harrison, H. J. Holtzmann, Murphy-O'Connor, and Wagenfuhrer.

Currently, most critical scholars think it improbable that Paul authored Ephesians. Among this group are Allan, Beare, Brandon, Bultmann, Conzelmann, Dibelius, Goodspeed, Kilsemann, J. Knox, W.L. Knox, Kümmel, K and S Lake, Marxsen, Masson, Mitton, Moffatt, Nineham, Pokorny, Schweizer, and J. Weiss.

Still other scholars suggest there is a lack of conclusive evidence. Some of this group are Cadbury, Julicher, McNeile, and Williams.

Epistle to the Ephesians
The idea that God predestine is solely based on Ephesians or work of unverified author under the assumption of Paul.

originally posted by: ChesterJohn
Those who hold that God chooses some to be saved or not be saved is a fabrication of demented men who wanted a following after themselves and not part of the truth of the word of God.

Indeed. God does not predestine. It's Paul's word. Wait..The scholars are not even certain it's Paul's word.

originally posted by: ChesterJohn
In response to your point 2) It is God Holiness that requires a punishment for sin/evil/iniquity/negative energy what ever you want to call it. If he chose to wipe out a whole population of people for corruption they were involved in he has the right to do so. Even if we look at it and think it is evil. He did afterwords repent of what he did and made a promise by creating the rainbow to remind us of it, that he would never destroy the whole of creation for mans corruption by flood. And if you read the Bible you will see that there was a flood when we first come into the reading of the Bible in Genesis 1:2.

God does not Repent for God does not Sin. Only Human and God created by Human repent. God is omniscience. He knows eternal punishment serve no purpose other than to fulfill selfish human who make all this things up. God is both justice and love.

originally posted by: ChesterJohn
Many repeat things they hear others say and never really study it out and see if it is really true. God/Jesus has never hurt innocent people as some would have us to believe. One thing Christians, true Christians are never called to kill anyone who will not believe on Jesus Christ. That is Gods job. If Islam's god Allah was the true god he would not need radical followers to kill those who will not believe in him. The god of Islam is not the true and living God. The true and living God in The LORD God Almighty Jesus Christ.

Samuel witness God command Saul to genocide the Amalekites including infants. Samuel witness God wraith on Saul for having mercy on some of the people. It is all written in the Bible. Islam God is the same as Mosses's God, the same as Abraham's God, the same as early Christian's God. Saying Islam's God is not true is equal to saying Christian's God is not true.

The one who is not true is the people who author the Bible, the Quran, the Torah etc.. This greedy selfish people has violated God command,"You shall not misuse God's name"

The only true God's word is the Ten Commandments.

יח וַיִּתֵּן אֶל-מֹשֶׁה, כְּכַלֹּתוֹ לְדַבֵּר אִתּוֹ בְּהַר סִינַי, שְׁנֵי, לֻחֹת הָעֵדֻת--לֻחֹת אֶבֶן, כְּתֻבִים בְּאֶצְבַּע אֱלֹהִים. 18
And He gave unto Moses, when He had made an end of speaking with him upon mount Sinai, the two tables of the testimony, tables of stone, written with the finger of God.

Tablets of Stone
Every Christians, Judaist and Muslims believe in God's Ten Commandments. God wrote the ten commandment himself and it is well preserved until now. It's the only word remain the same throughout the ages because it is God's work. The one and only God's words. No Christians, Judaist and Muslims can dispute Ten Commandments. Not even the extremist terorrist ISIS ( Daesh scum ). Unlike the Bible, the Koran, the Torah etc..


Peace.

a reply to: EasternShadow

No, Once one makes a decision to believe on Christ then they are predestined the context suggest that. and It only applies to those what have believed.

It is according to his foreknowledge of who would choose to believe on Christ.

Read the article I linked too it really does explain all that very clearly

Today, Eternal punishment is for those who do not chose to believe on Christ. Eternal punishment is based on God's holiness which requires a sacrifice for salvation and peace, Jesus fulfilled that on the cross and when he rose from the dead.

There are many so called god's but the one True Almighty God is Jesus Christ, the fullness of the godhead bodily.

While Paul reiterated the ten commandments of God the only one he did not elaborate on is Sabbath day observance. This is important because for the Christian they are not commandments that needed to be followed but became part of the Christians daily communication or to clarify that word Lifestyle. Even if violated they are not bound to damnation.

As stated in another post the Ten Commandments brought the knowledge of sin, thay cannot save they can only condemn. For which in the Ot there is a sin offering and a peace offering that was need to make one right before God until the coming of Jesus Christ. And it could only be done by a Levitical Priest of the line of Arron.

Rom 7:7 ¶ What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.
9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.
10 And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.

The only sacrifice accessible to God today is that of his son on the cross and his resurrection.

All of God's words can be held n your hand in only one English Bible today and that is the Authorized Version. It is the only English Bible out their available with all of God's words in it, all the verses, sections and the words just as God wanted us to have them, for he preserved them to us as stated he would in Psalm 12:6, 7.

May God Countenance shine upon you

originally posted by: ChesterJohn
a reply to: EasternShadow
No, Once one makes a decision to believe on Christ then they are predestined the context suggest that. and It only applies to those what have believed.

It is according to his foreknowledge of who would choose to believe on Christ.

Surely the Almighty God, the omniscience would foreknowledge that. I wouldnt argue. I argue everyone is saved through Jesus whether they believe in Christ or not. This does not exempt the Christians from violating the Ten Commandments. The Christians still commit Sin, just like anybody else. And God will judge everyone fairly whether they believe in Christ or not.

originally posted by: ChesterJohn
Read the article I linked too it really does explain all that very clearly

I did. Paul did not stated his letters were from the saying of God and Jesus. It is obvious because it is only his opinion. Since it's Paul's opinion, I do not consider myself and anyone else sin for rejecting Paul's opinion.

originally posted by: ChesterJohn
Today, Eternal punishment is for those who do not chose to believe on Christ. Eternal punishment is based on God's holiness which requires a sacrifice for salvation and peace, Jesus fulfilled that on the cross and when he rose from the dead.

Like I said, eternal punishment serve no purpose other than fulfilling God's own selfishness of Justice. Which is not true. Punishment is meant for people to redeem. Parents spank their children to make them the better human in preparation for the future. No parents will and could punish the child for the rest of their child's life. Let alone watch them burn eternally in hell. There is no love in eternal punishment. There is only Justice. And that's certainly not the God who speak to Mosses at Mount Sinai. For our Father in Heaven is both Justice and Love.

originally posted by: ChesterJohn
There are many so called god's but the one True Almighty God is Jesus Christ, the fullness of the godhead bodily.

There is ONLY ONE. Exodus 20:3 “You shall have no other gods before me." Jesus Christ is not the one True Almighty God. Someone point to me, The Nicene Creed dictated that Jesus is the son of God.

First Council of Nicaea ( 325 )
We believe in one God, the Father Almighty, Maker of all things visible and invisible. And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, begotten of the Father [the only-begotten; that is, of the essence of the Father, God of God,] Light of Light, very God of very God, begotten, not made, being of one substance with the Father;

originally posted by: ChesterJohn
While Paul reiterated the ten commandments of God the only one he did not elaborate on is Sabbath day observance. This is important because for the Christian they are not commandments that needed to be followed but became part of the Christians daily communication or to clarify that word Lifestyle. Even if violated they are not bound to damnation.

Of Course. Everyone is free to believe what they will. If you believe the Christians are not bound to damnation because of commiting sin against the Sabbath day, then you should also believe everyone, including the athests, are not bound to damnation either. The principles work the same way.

originally posted by: ChesterJohn
As stated in another post the Ten Commandments brought the knowledge of sin, thay cannot save they can only condemn.

Ten Commandment isnt about saving. It's about Law. The Law for the Israelites and the Gentiles. Wheter you are Jews or Christians etc.. matter NOT. God does not dictate how you follow the law of God. Whether you follow the tradition of Jews or the tradition of western christian or the mytical eastern cultures matter not. Neither it concern whether your salvation or not. Neither it concern wheter you believe in UFO or BEK or Flat Earth or NWO or Satanic Rituals etc or not. Everyone is equally judged and loved.

To think that God treats everyone differently is equally to think that only the Jews are favored by God that they could murdered both John the Baptist and Jesus the Nazareth without consequences, which is not true. Everyone is born from Adam whether they are Jews or Christians, whether they are saved or not. You can preach anything you want but that does not exempt you from any judgement of God's Ten Commandment. That's the majesty of it. The law of Our Father in Heaven cannot be denied by the Jews, the Christians, the Muslims, and even the radical Islamic Sects.

originally posted by: ChesterJohn
All of God's words can be held n your hand in only one English Bible today and that is the Authorized Version. It is the only English Bible out their available with all of God's words in it, all the verses, sections and the words just as God wanted us to have them, for he preserved them to us as stated he would in Psalm 12:6, 7.

May God Countenance shine upon you

The only things that Eusebius preserved from Oregon's library is the ones that suited his agendas to impress Emperor Constantine in the creation of "Crestus" ( Christ ). Every other relics and manuscripts were burnt.

Luke 4: 8
4And Jesus answered him, saying, It is written, That man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word of God. 5And the devil, taking him up into an high mountain, shewed unto him all the kingdoms of the world in a moment of time. 6And the devil said unto him, All this power will I give thee, and the glory of them: for that is delivered unto me; and to whomsoever I will I give it. 7If thou therefore wilt worship me, all shall be thine. 8And Jesus answered and said unto him, Get thee behind me, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.

And for two or three centuries his church followed in his footsteps, cherishing his proletarian gospel. The early Christians had "all things in common, except women;" they lived as social outcasts, hiding in deserted catacombs, and being thrown to lions and boiled in oil.

But the devil is a subtle worm; he does not give up at one defeat, for he knows human nature, and the strength of the forces which battle for him. He failed to get Jesus, but he came again, to get Jesus' church. He came when, through the power of the new revolutionary idea, the Church had won a position of tremendous power in the decaying Roman Empire; and the subtle worm assumed the guise of no less a person than the Emperor himself, suggesting that he should become a convert to the new faith, so that the Church and he might work together for the greater glory of God. The bishops and fathers of the Church, ambitious for their organization, fell for this scheme, and Satan went off laughing to himself. He had got everything he had asked from Jesus three hundred years before; he had got the world's greatest religion.

Upton Sinclair, in The Profits of Religion : An Essay in Economic Interpretation (1918), Book Seven : The Church of the Social Revolution, "Christ and Caesar"

May God Countenance shine upon you too.

a reply to: EasternShadow


the preserved word of God, that is preserved by God himself (Ps 12:6, 7) is not any mans opinions.

If you start with that the word of God is a mans opinion as a premise of God's word, you will always be wrong in your estimation and judgement of God. Prejudice means you have prejudged something about a person to be true. You are a God hating bigot with no intention of knowing him or truth.

No need to go further I am out of here.

a reply to: EasternShadow

I will post something from another which could show what may be the plan of God and the end with esplaination . It ill take a while to get it typed out and posted soon.

originally posted by: ChesterJohn
a reply to: EasternShadow


the preserved word of God, that is preserved by God himself (Ps 12:6, 7) is not any mans opinions.

If you start with that the word of God is a mans opinion as a premise of God's word, you will always be wrong in your estimation and judgement of God. Prejudice means you have prejudged something about a person to be true. You are a God hating bigot with no intention of knowing him or truth.

No need to go further I am out of here.

Paul is not listed as the twelve apostles of Jesus. Paul has never met Jesus during Jesus's lifetime. Instead he learnt them from the apostles once and produced his gospel the second trip to the apostles. Unlike Peter, John, Matthiew and the rest of the 12 apostles, Paul has never hear the words of God directly from Jesus. He clearly never stated his gospel as the saying of God, unlike the gospel of John, the gospel of Matthiew, the gospel of Luke and others. Paul knew he is not the prophet but merely an apostle of Jesus, on the road to Damascus. So do tell me how is Paul's words supposed to be God's words, and not his own opinion?

originally posted by: ChesterJohn
I will post something from another which could show what may be the plan of God and the end with esplaination . It ill take a while to get it typed out and posted soon.

No hurry. I'd prefer source from someone who receive God's words directly from Jesus or the Prophets themselves like David, Solomon, Mosses, Abraham etc.. But any accounts from the twelve apostles who was with Jesus from the beginning until the last supper and the cruxification will also do.

Peace be with you.

a reply to: EasternShadow

Jesus never died his lifetime is eternal and Paul did meet him.

a reply to: ChesterJohn

According to paul... in his dreams.. literally I'm not being funny.. didn't Paul claim to have met Jesus in a vision or some other highly questionable method???

a reply to: ChesterJohn

As "Son of Man", Jesus did died. He died on cruxification withnessed by thousand people. John and Joseph were there too. It was Joseph who took down Jesus's body and buried him in cave. Even non christians on that time recorded Jesus died on cruxification. There are at least 3 historical documents. Jesus's death is confirmed. Jesus live eternally only as Begotten Son of God and as memory of those who love him. Not as human.

Unlike Paul. No one testified and verified Paul meeting with Jesus. Not even men who journey with him on the road to Damacus. Everything is just Paul's claim. Therefore I cannot accept Paul's word as God's word, unless Paul is a prophet like others. But Paul isnt a prophet. He was not even the first tier apostles whom Jesus had appointed and authorized.

I'm not discrediting Paul. Paul has his own merit. Without Paul, the Gentiles would never embrace christianity because the Jews are notoriously known for their racist when it comes to their religion. Jesus as a Jews also primarily come to fulfill the Jews prophecy, to tell the Jews the messages of God and to save the Jews from God's wraith. Jesus did not come for the Gentiles. Neither Jesus's primary intention to save the Gentiles. It was Paul acting like the apostle of Jesus who teach the Gentiles, thus responsible for the christian worldwide. Without Paul and the Romans, the christians would most probably face extinction today due to harsh treatment they received.

But the fact remains. Paul isnt a Prophet to claim God's word first hand.

a reply to: EasternShadow

Actually, though I do believe the Paul parts are even more questionable.. there is roughly the same amount of evidence for the validity of Jesus as there is for Paul..



We have a statement in the Bible saying a thousand people saw the crucifiction.. not a thousand eye witness accounts.

So imho there is not more evidence for Jesus than for Paul.

There are no real secondary sources..