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originally posted by: ScepticScot
a reply to: DaveEngland
Maybe may not. Cameron claimed a mandate for the EU referendum on about 37% of the vote. Pretty much exactly what the SNP have got.
Don't get me wrong if I was advising the SNP I would not be pushing for a referendum this side of the next Scottish election, but this election certainly hadn't killed off the possibility.
originally posted by: DaveEngland
Two thirds of Scots vote for parties supporting union with UK forget indyref2 haha
originally posted by: DAVID64
Not that well versed on it, but as far as I can tell...I hope you guys get out of the E.U.
You pay billions to let others run your country and impose their will, when they do not have the best interests of Britain at heart. IF independence is what you want, I truly hope you get it. Merkel and Company have made some very bad decisions and getting away from them may be the best thing the British can do at this point.
Above all, I hope you get to run your country the way The People want...the rest of us are merely bystanders.
originally posted by: TrueBrit
a reply to: DAVID64
What happened? DAVID64, the right wing has become ever more hardline on EVERYTHING for YEARS! And the fact of the matter is, that in order for any balance to exist, there has to be a counter to that. I would much rather be in discussion that goes somewhere, amongst peers, rather than having to clean the spittle of the phobics, the degenerate corporatist pawns who have been brainwashed into appeasing intolerant leadership, appeasing the rise of the far right, from off my shirt before commencing the making of my point.
However, I am not so fortunate as to live in a time where even the right wing have a semblance of humanity to their arguments or their positions. I am living in a time where it is considered acceptable, even in this community, this hallowed space that I have enormous respect for the purpose and content of, to announce ones desire to have all the Arab world flattened by nuclear weapons, where it is considered acceptable to appease the erosion of liberty in order to purchase with that currency a physical safety which means nothing without the liberty which animates free people.
I refuse, I resist, and I would have to do none of this, if my brothers and sisters on the right had kept their heads and continued to think critically. They have not. I believe in democracy, but I do not believe in it well enough to permit my country or the discussion to fall fully to the right, because in EVERY instance in which this has occurred on either the national or local level, there comes as a result, the most abject misery, inequality and above all indifference. If those who have a problem with my conduct in recent times wish to complain, they may consider themselves on notice to back the hell down from THEIR extremism, because otherwise, all I can possibly do is demand that the system which supports them and their view be smashed, and rebuilt in a socialist fashion, so that at least if these people must continue their hatred, they have no ability to enforce it at the government level, are kept on the back foot and powerless to affect the disastrous policies and least noble desires of their ilk.
I am responding to a threat others pose. Consider this DAVID64:
The two of us are on a board, balanced across a log. The log itself is on a spear of rock, hundreds of feet tall. If either one of us alters his position, the other must alter his position equally and oppositely, in order that the board remain stable, and not careen off the log and plummet the both of us to our certain doom. In this instance, the board is our country, you and I are the electorate.
Consider this also:
Between the Red Tory menace of the Blairite years, the Thatcherite Tory menace which came before it, and the Cameron and May eras which followed it, this country has been sliding rightward for DECADES, to the detriment of the very people who have been voting for it. The corporatist control which has been exerted over the lives of the people, the industrial scale frauds which have come as a result of it and meant our public services have all but died, the propaganda which even now keeps people from believing it, or reacting correctly to it, all serve to push us ever closer to the brink of utter collapse as a nation, as a community and as a people. I cannot be held responsible for that, because as you note, I have been willing, within reason, to debate and discuss with logic and unifying candour FOR YEARS! But not a bit of that has made a difference. Neither the example I have set to others, nor the quality of my arguments has resulted in a more even handed approach being taken by my fellows. Neither my tireless reminders to be mindful against propaganda, to do ones own research, to prevent oneself from being taken in by hatemongers, even under massive provocation to do so, nor my obvious desire to see our nation made whole and healthy by properly funded, nationalised services, has seen any response from those on the right, but an even greater descent into utter bloody handed madness.
If this nation is to come back from the decades of corporatist interference in our nations affairs, I must, I conclude, step further and further to the left, as must others who have seen the writing on the wall in this regard. We must vote for those who will turn our nations government and its future, away from profit and pain, toward freedom and liberty, freedom from debt, freedom from corporate greed and fraud, freedom from victim blaming, the attacks on the poor, the weak, the ill, the young, the old and the education of the people, which have been occurring for more years than I have lived.
I tried, you cannot deny that I have done my utmost over the years to place myself in a position where I could talk to all corners and comers. You cannot deny that I have made a habit of cutting through the crap, getting to the heart of matters and doing away with the lies which hide reality from those most affected by it. But if my efforts are to be for nothing, which by the looks of things around here, they most certainly were (though it makes me wracked with grief to say it), then all I have left is to ensure that for every bigot, fascist, and corporatist appeaser, I take another step left to make sure that someone, somewhere is keeping the board balanced.
I will meet in the middle, when the middle is not so far off to the right that doing so lands me in amongst the jackboots and the bastards who are the enemies of freedom.
originally posted by: EvilAxis
One thing is undeniable - had it not been for two years of the media trying to rubbish Corbyn and half the members of his own party doing the same while trying to oust him, this would have been a clear win for Labour.