Baddogma's Meta Cafe- Polite Discussions About Scientific Mysticism and General Weirdness

a reply to: TEOTWAWKIAIFF

All planets eventually reach their flash points or crash points... whats the score? Infinity in both directions.

The vacation films are indeed the portrayal of the modern day hero, called husband, father to some children and dad, that toils away trying to make his heaven on earth in an idealistic bubble in unideal conditions.

Perhaps that's the largest dystopia of all... yet the Wife/Husband 2.5 children and white picket fence is the trope that can no longer be sold yet many still want that dream.

When it's sorry folks that show is sold out, maybe some other venue plays it. Of course, that movie has taken place since before colonial days and now it's just a bunch of dudes courting the same notion of remaining single and hitting on Odysseus's wife while he's away. So if/when Odysseus's house falls... does he build another or join the fray... either way he's in the fray until dispassionate about the whole scene going on around him.

So they going rate is kinda like if you can find a partner that sticks with you thats your treasure, but don't suspend them in one place... water and nurture and grow them the same they do for you. Thats how it returns to that mythical garden, and not surrounded by: Is that hair... or did your face and neck throw up?

a reply to: BigBrotherDarkness

My son and I went to London Zoo last year, it was our second visit, we were last there in 2010. It was interesting to note the changes. Given that the zoo is in the heart of London, it seems to have an unending capacity to expand to accommodate an ever greater variety and number of endangered species. One of the most enchanting changes in the five years was the introduction of open enclosures for the small primates, where you could go in and walk around, sometimes centemetres from the animals. As long as you are carrying nothing edible (which is strictly prohibited), they completely disregard your presence. For photography it is wonderful not to be seperated by glass or grills.







Most are still full enclosed. You enter their cage. The exception are the Squirrel Monkeys. They are fenced in, but not roofed. Via the trees in their enclosure they can get out, and do. The keeper explained that, Squirrel Monkeys are very intelligent, and though they regularly get out, they always come back. Generally, quite terrified and traumatised by the experience. Sometimes the prison is the safest place to be.



I had the question of conservation on my mind that visit. I stood there gawking at the animals with the other crowds of gawpers and realised that we are still behaving in the same way as we always have, seeking the novel to entertain us, we are just dressing it up in ribbons and claiming were conserving them for the planet, while doing nothing substantial to preserve their actual natural habitats. We're collecting specimens, not saving the planet. We're preparing, always, for the worst, rather than changing for the better.



I began to feel uncomfortable taking their photographs. It felt like an intrusion, and in my mind I imagined their perception of me, with camera, as a Cyclopian-Monster stealing their souls.

And we're everywhere...

a reply to: Anaana

Beautiful and yet they all do have sort of that 1000 yard stare... perhaps in wondering where home has actually gone and trying to see it off out there somewhere in the distance.

Encroachment when we've managed to separate ourselves from the environment and it's species is inevitable being the most invasive animal species on the planet.

An ex from Hebden Bridge read me a story about the removal of some foxes that had taken up residence in the wall of a dry cleaners establishment and released into an environment they obviously did not see as their home anymore with an article about fox hunting following not long after as an excuse to cut the numbers so they wouldn't be so invasive and of course the outcry as it being a barbaric ritual.

I do think it possible to mix our modern monkey hives with the natural world in a balance where there's no encroachment or invasion of species mentality but that notion of "because this is how it always has been done" taught to each new monkey entering the cage... very little change occurs, fortunately there's a shift away from that whole humans are not animals and have a divine providence allowing all dominion and destruction over any and everything so desired whether the reasoning appears rational for doing so it obviously never is when belief justifies action instead of reality.

a reply to: BigBrotherDarkness

What about Jaipur, India? There the monkeys are invading the city in packs! They have a strategy too. Due to the divine seen in all living things, the Hindu do nothing to prevent or stop them.

Yeah, porcelain Mary her majesty's pure
Looking for virgin territory
Coat-hanger halos that don't come cheep
From television shepherds with living room sheep
And I pray, can I be saved?
I've spent all my money on a future grave
Wooden Jesus I'll cut you in on 20 percent of my future sin

Temple of the Dog = Wooden Jesus

Somehow that seems appropriate. Prisons can be freedom. Chains of guilt. Tithing sin seems like a good idea with a good going rate too! Just dress up our prison planet in haute couture and sell it back at 200% the cost shown each spring in France and London and NYC. "Here, take my money, please" the inmates scream in panic and desperation. Some have reverted to writing on the walls with their own poo. Others swallow the doctor supplied medication on the slow spiral of addiction. We are circling the drain in a frenetic mosh pit of violence and murder disguised as religious piety.

Second coming? Already happened. Jesus wept. Then returned whence He came.

(Sorry, it is gray and raining here today. Put out the fire but now the smoke is pouring into the city. Smells like a campfire in the office. Yuk!)

Some music I have a tocotronic day. pure vernunft

pure sanity never may win
we desperately need new lies
which guide us through the universe
to afford us the fest of the world
to force the delirium
and sing us into the sweetest slumber
to warn us about the dull truth
take pity in our deepest agony
cradle us in Bambus baskets
pure sanity never may win

to show us the treasure of insanity
bow in front of us afterwards
and crown us to kings
just to taunt us clandestine
which fizzle in our ears
and whisk over our eyes
which go to war with those trying to help
pure sanity never may win

TEOTWAWKIAIFF, Peeple...

I really enjoyed how both of you responded with creativity... the views from the billions of glasses existing are obviously always going to be a personal prescription... even with group insurance/assurance as sight itself often leads to blindness. Either way such views are always full of it whether made by optimists or pessimists.

a reply to: BigBrotherDarkness

It's not just the thousand yard stare, they do everything they can to avoid looking at you, willfully. Made me think of Kurt Vonnegut and The Sirens of Titan.

They're captives and we're domesticated animals who have deliberately chosen captivity as a mode of survival, and to realise that we have destroyed the natural diversity of ecosystems to create monocultures that only support intensive farming practices. And we continue to do so. We keep these animals in cages to make ourselves feel better about the thousands upon thousands of species whose extinction we have been responsible for. The idea of them ever being "returned to the wild" is an illusion based on their being such a thing anymore as the "wild". It is just some mythical imagined place that existed before homo sapiens began exploiting the # out of every resource that they could grasp from the planet. We spend an awful lot of time money and energy on studies that reach that conclusion, and then we ignore the results or do a little patch up job, but we're still adapting at the expense of other species, rather than recognising ourselves as only a minor functionary in a vast and necessarily complex system. We are, at present, given the spread of "Western" ideology, the worst thing that ever happened to this planet, we have the capability to be the greatest. We have the technology, we still have creative brilliance, but it continues to be misdirected.

It's disappointing.

Nature will prevail just so long as the Moon keeps drawing the tides, and the Sun keeps shining (from a reasonable distance). Our place in it, and what we destroy while facilitating our own destruction, is questionable, and it is now completely accepted that the Western model of "lifestyle" is unsustainable, and that without change, we will be rendered extinct, although given that this was globally recognised in 1972 through the work of the Club of Rome, some groups have been working to ensure their own survival at the expense of others. Either way, I interpreted, as much as I would ever presume to imagine what a captive animal might feel like, that the intelligent little primates didn't look at us in the hope that if they pretended that we weren't there we would eventually disappear. Without humans I am sure that London is a fantastic place for little monkeys, and they would do just fine, and like those abandoned theme parks, in no time at all, geologically speaking, it''ll be a forest. The structures will crumble, and it'll be green and fruitful again.

Balance could be achieved. Relatively painlessly. The cooperation that leads to the level of investment that is required, so long as there are those who are only protecting their own narrow interests, is direly lacking however.

But, ya know, gotta look on the brightside...and keep chip, chip, chipping away.

The roll of distant thunder breaks, the afternoon of silence wakes
They hurry through from Petergate as if they know this dance
In fury blind, I drive at night across the moors, the open roads
Beneath the freezing starry skies, racing in some trance

These cities are illusions of some triumph over Nature's laws
We've seen the iron carcass rust and buildings topple into dust
And as the waters rise, it seems we cling to all the rootless things
The Christian lies, technology, while spirits scream and sing

Oh God I love the world

Well I never said I was a clever man but I know enough to understand
That the endless leaps and forward plans will someday have to cease
You blind yourselves with comfort lies like lightning never strikes you twice
And we laugh at your amazed surprise as the Ark begins to sink

This temple that is built so well to separate us from ourselves
Is a power grown beyond control, a will without a face
And watching from outside I wish that I could wash my hands of this
But we are locked together here, this bittersweet embrace

Oh God I love the world

And if one day the final fire explodes across the whitened sky
I know you've said you'd rather die and make it over fast
With courage from your bravest friends, waiting outside for the end
With no bitterness but an innocence that I can't seem to grasp

I know somehow I will survive - this fury just to stay alive
So drunk with sickness, weak with pain, I can walk the hills one last time
Scarred and smiling, dying slow, I'll scream to no one left at all
I told you so, I told you so, I TOLD YOU SO . . .

Oh God I love the world



Lyrics: New Model Army.org - I Love the World

And I was late to the NMA game. About 1986-7 is when I became a convert. This album was one of three I had on CD when I drove from AK to Phoenix, AZ. This song and White Coats mean the world to me to this day. You can often hear TEOT banging out The Green and Gray, The Ballad of Bodmin Pill, and Vagabonds all angsty and solo-ish on guitar. I have 4 copies of this CD. Like I said, this means the world to me. So don't ask any more stupid questions!

a reply to: Anaana

I had an intention to seek out and remove all belief from my system, in such a manner I found myself not part of any group whatsoever.

From that arose an awareness of personal responsibility, not having any belief or group to back up any BS... spouting BS was no longer justifiable... not only in myself but in others that usually takes place in some cognitive dissonance that allows an excuse or permission to be such a way.

The paradox is even without the group or label giving the excuse, people are basically just doing whatever anyway, and then throw up some belief in a label or group belief as their excuse for it.

No having any belief or group identity, theres no excuse for me.

a reply to: BigBrotherDarkness

Liar! Why are you here talking with the island of misfit toys?!

JK, luv u big bro! Stop doing the "end conversation" thang so we can converse...

Even if I have nothing to say

a reply to: TEOTWAWKIAIFF

You mean put on sneakers? Puma has a shoe that looks great for sneaking.

I can't help it, the power of awakening compels me... if I could stop I would, but the nature of wind just blows on due to its nature, but after demolishing that damn house with 6 windows and sitting in the ashes like a angry phoenix finally free of the egg being infinitely reborn from one moment to the next... before I knew it this f-ing tree grew around me becoming one, rooting me so deep there's a tree growing out of the other side of the world out of the same roots and I'm stuck in it's core as the rings of life season to season grow around me stronger and stronger taller and taller, bound with promises of silk and prayer flags... monkeys come by to grasp fruit and swing on the branches telling them too leave would make them chatter with laughter saying ha ha you stupid tree we are monkeys it's our nature to grasp and throw feces at each other. Of course all that poo flinging only fertilizes the situation into even more growth... I just can't thin only bark and leaving here isn't what people think it is.

So hey kinda stuck due to the fates of karma... in this neutral zone with the feds and klingons, but it's OK no need to ever knock on wood for it to be OK either, so I guess that's the trade off... permanently impermanent in bare awareness that there's no more nuts of ignorant delusion just seed and fruit and some pit-falls required for others to grove no different than others past did or myself.

P.S. Ents can sneak around pretty good but it's a location location location thing... a tree J-walking isn't as common as when chickens do it.

a reply to: BigBrotherDarkness

Ent? Tree whisperer!

Wouldn't keep your lid on if I could! The make my brain hurt is awesome! Not everbody can do that! So nice to interact with the trees.

Did you know that trees can move? Yup, can migrate over long periods of time. Feet even. It is just our time frame of reference does not notice. Pffffftt, relitivity!

a reply to: TEOTWAWKIAIFF

A German ranger wrote a book about the psyche of trees. How they feel, love, fight all of that. He even makes guided tours through "his" forest where he explains you exactly in which realtionship the trees are in with one another.

I love the idea somehow and why not, right? I mean from a chemical standpoint we are not that much different than the dirt around us and also manage to develop "awareness". If fat and protein can do it, why shouldn't cellulose and carbon also do it? Much more complex than we are if you think about it.

a reply to: TEOTWAWKIAIFF

You know who's even sneaker than that? The zen gardeners disguised as sailing stones... all out there in the desert making those secret nasca line mantras... all singing christopher cross while they do it too.

a reply to: Peeple

Sappy love stories are the bestest.

a reply to: TEOTWAWKIAIFF

I once spent a very miserable evening at a NMA gig. Not my cup of tea at all, I am afraid, but the support act was awesome.



*Bounce*

a reply to: Peeple

And the relationships they form with other organisms. Mushrooms come to mind. Ants, truffles, etc. They keep the dirt from being washed away. Give off oxygen. I could see trees having feelings! They seem to like some kinds of classical music too!

a reply to: BigBrotherDarkness




Uh, wouldn't it be the Rolling Stones?

This was one of those songs on the radio I would turn up instead of change the channel (or turn it off). It is not sappy and even the parental units liked it! Go figure!

a reply to: Anaana

Sorry you had a bad time. There are a couple albums that I am not too fond of and you might have caught them on one of those tours. But hey, at least you have seen NMA! All I have are couple VHS tapes, and a bunch of DVDs. And all their CDs and music videos. I need to buy that new movie and get Vengeance Remastered (the completer I am) but have waited this long, another week won't hurt!

Nothing really to bounce back.

a reply to: TEOTWAWKIAIFF

The rolling stones reminds me of a Cheech and Chong scene... except they've actually parked, but two time travelers wouldn't know the difference. That requires synchronizing watches unless one can psychically attune into each others waves length, pretty easy to do and very annoying when toxic people that should eat sh-t and die do it just trying to exploit people all selfish and sh-t. Time is precious wasting even a moment of it especially with a bunch of negativity that does nothing to help any one except them selves and each other doing the same thing.

Two songs come to mind for that;

Social Distortions Don't drag me down, and now I can't recall the other but there's many of them. 91 degrees with a feels like of 103 and sweating bullets, AC feels like a heater and this grocery bag is dancing like a miniature wacky waving inflatable arm person keeping me company, I'm just letting it become a sweat lodge session letting the poisons seep out instead of complain.

a reply to: BigBrotherDarkness

Down Here With The Rest of Us? Prolly wasn't Social D but somebody else you were thinking of.

A sweat lodge indoors... ugghh

Probably no respite outside either. I would grab one of those tungsten buckets, get some ice, put my feet in, then take my time emptying cups of melted ice water over my half-naked body! In the shade. Wouldn't care if it was in the front yard!

Any pets? Poor dogs up and down the east coast! Sending "push away the high pressure" thoughts your way!

originally posted by: TEOTWAWKIAIFF
Sorry you had a bad time. There are a couple albums that I am not too fond of and you might have caught them on one of those tours. But hey, at least you have seen NMA! All I have are couple VHS tapes, and a bunch of DVDs. And all their CDs and music videos. I need to buy that new movie and get Vengeance Remastered (the completer I am) but have waited this long, another week won't hurt!

It wasn't NMAs fault I didn't enjoy them, it was entirely me, everyone else seemed to enjoy it, I found a corner away from the bass line. Just not my taste, I went to please someone else.