Here’s What a Man Who Studied Every Suicide Attack in the World Says About ISIS’ Motives

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
Which verses specifically were used as justification for the Crusades?

I'm not sure, I wasn't there.

My guess is that it doesn't matter since you can use just about any verses or stories or lessons to justify whatever it is you want to do if you just try.

originally posted by: Swills
a reply to: OccamsRazor04

No matter how you try to spin it, you asked what Arab nations were fighting ISIS.

No, that is not at all what happened. The only spin comes from you. Let me refresh your memory.

originally posted by: Swills
Muslim nations have already created a military coalition to fight terrorism.

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
Which muslim nations?

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
It also specifically says they offered to fight Daesh, not terrorism.

I asked which nations were fighting terrorism. You equated fighting ISIS as "fighting terrorism".

That would be like my saying the founding father of the KKK who hates blacks and wants them dead, who happens to dislike a rival racist group and is attacking them, is attacking racism. It's called a lie.

So glad we had this chat.

originally posted by: mOjOm

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
Which verses specifically were used as justification for the Crusades?

I'm not sure, I wasn't there.

My guess is that it doesn't matter since you can use just about any verses or stories or lessons to justify whatever it is you want to do if you just try.

If you don't know then maybe you should not claim it as fact, right?

a reply to: mOjOm

Haha...well, that is an interesting approach to say the least.

But I would offer this in response. In Germany instead of Santa Claus, they have Krampus. Krampus doesn't give you gifts if you have been good, he whacks you with his stick if you have been bad. And if you have been really bad, he stuffs you in his sack and takes you to hell.

Individually you can say things about both. But side by side, one is definitely more sinister than the other.

originally posted by: Vroomfondel

I was raised Catholic but I am no longer with the church. In my time as a Catholic I can honestly say the only thing I was ever 'instructed' to do was share the joy of my faith in the Lord. Pretty simple. We all know there are recovered tapes and pamphlets as well as websites that preach violence in the name of Islam. I am not sure an even comparison can be made. That doesn't mean either one is about nothing but murder. But if I had to chose the one more likely to promote violence, I would have to say the Quran. Is that a reasonable assessment?

Well, then you obviously haven't seen some of the radical fundamentalist christian sites and video's and radio shows that are out there then. There out there and it's not hard to find them. I watch them all the time just because I find it amazing that someone can push such BS and actually get people to follow them. From televangelists to Westborro church, there is no shortage of hate speech and violent rhetoric out there.

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04

If you don't know then maybe you should not claim it as fact, right?

I never claimed to know which versus were involved. But the Crusades happening is a fact. That it was influenced by Christian Ideology of the time, also a fact.

But keep picking away at what I'm saying looking for ways to find fault regardless of how hard you have to stretch to find them. Maybe you'll get lucky. Personally, I think you'd get more out of it by listening to what I'm saying, but have it your way.

That's a very interesting read.
It must have required a disconnect to review it in so much depth as the researcher did.

originally posted by: mOjOm

originally posted by: Vroomfondel

I was raised Catholic but I am no longer with the church. In my time as a Catholic I can honestly say the only thing I was ever 'instructed' to do was share the joy of my faith in the Lord. Pretty simple. We all know there are recovered tapes and pamphlets as well as websites that preach violence in the name of Islam. I am not sure an even comparison can be made. That doesn't mean either one is about nothing but murder. But if I had to chose the one more likely to promote violence, I would have to say the Quran. Is that a reasonable assessment?

Well, then you obviously haven't seen some of the radical fundamentalist christian sites and video's and radio shows that are out there then. There out there and it's not hard to find them. I watch them all the time just because I find it amazing that someone can push such BS and actually get people to follow them. From televangelists to Westborro church, there is no shortage of hate speech and violent rhetoric out there.

You are right. I haven't seen any of the radical Christian sites. But I think that is at the core of the issue. No one went out of their way to make that available or to indoctrinate me to those beliefs. Ever. If I am going to see it, I have to go look for it. Can you say the same about Islam? I think there is a more systemic indoctrination and radicalization in muslim countries than Christian.

originally posted by: Vroomfondel

Haha...well, that is an interesting approach to say the least.

But I would offer this in response. In Germany instead of Santa Claus, they have Krampus. Krampus doesn't give you gifts if you have been good, he whacks you with his stick if you have been bad. And if you have been really bad, he stuffs you in his sack and takes you to hell.

Individually you can say things about both. But side by side, one is definitely more sinister than the other.

That does pretty scary. But in our version Santa has Claws(Claus)!!! If you're bad, what do you think he'll do with those Satan(Santa) Claws(Claus)???

originally posted by: mOjOm

originally posted by: Vroomfondel

Haha...well, that is an interesting approach to say the least.

But I would offer this in response. In Germany instead of Santa Claus, they have Krampus. Krampus doesn't give you gifts if you have been good, he whacks you with his stick if you have been bad. And if you have been really bad, he stuffs you in his sack and takes you to hell.

Individually you can say things about both. But side by side, one is definitely more sinister than the other.

That does pretty scary. But in our version Santa has Claws(Claus)!!! If you're bad, what do you think he'll do with those Satan(Santa) Claws(Claus)???

I think you switched songs to the one about grandma with the incriminating claus marks on her back...ahem...

originally posted by: mOjOm

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04

If you don't know then maybe you should not claim it as fact, right?

I never claimed to know which versus were involved. But the Crusades happening is a fact. That it was influenced by Christian Ideology of the time, also a fact.

But keep picking away at what I'm saying looking for ways to find fault regardless of how hard you have to stretch to find them. Maybe you'll get lucky. Personally, I think you'd get more out of it by listening to what I'm saying, but have it your way.

The Catholic church =/= Bible verses.

You did not say Christianity, you specified the Bible. I simply asked which verses since you stated as fact verses in the Bible were used as justification.

Asking you to not make false claims is not nitpicking. Rather than say you are right, I should not have specified the Bible, you doubled down on your mistake. When you can source the claim, make it, otherwise don't, it's simple.

a reply to: OccamsRazor04

Oh I see, sorry I didn't specify what terrorists they were fighting but the poster I was responding too was clearly talking about ISIS and so was I. So I guess you can count that technicality as a win if it makes you feel good.

The terrorists on everyone's mind these days is ISIS . If you wanna nitpick go for it, but there are other terrorists in this world besides Arabs so by your logic these Arab Nations are bad because they aren't fighting all forms of terrorism worldwide.

How about Saudi Arabia? Still going to ignore that issue huh? While you point out how Iran was not invited to the UN meeting about the fight against ISIS how come you also don't point out how Saudi Arabia somehow is on the UN council of Human Rights? No hypocrisy there at all.

You just wanna argue semantics. I'm done, and I'll concede to you so that we can end our conversation.

originally posted by: Vroomfondel
I think there is a more systemic indoctrination and radicalization in muslim countries than Christian.

Well, sure. It's a Muslim country. I would expect that. We don't have many Muslims here, we have more Christians so that is the ideology you'll see most.

I'm not saying they are both equal either. This isn't about a direct comparison. Christianity has become very moderate compared to what it has been in the past. They used to burn people and stone them or worse, but thankfully we finally got our sh*t together and figured that was not too cool.

Hopefully the same can happen with Islam as well. Islam a long time ago was once the guiding light which brought education and equality to the masses. It was a religion that promoted education and science of that time and brought prosperity to the people. Then at some point that all changed and the fanatics and dogma took over and it went to hell. Some thing happened to pretty much every religion in history. There have even been Buddhist Terrorists as crazy as that sounds. It can happen to any ideology if people aren't careful.

originally posted by: meemaw
I'm going to take a massively politically incorrect stance here but I don't buy the whole "Extremist" tie to terrorism. I don't believe in moderate and extreme Islam. I think Islam is Islam. I don't hold all Muslims accountable for the acts of the terrorists, just the individuals who perpetrate the crimes.
When the global Muslim community starts to take a stance against the terrorist actions by publicly and loudly denouncing them, by publically and loudly admitting that these acts of Jihad go against the teachings of the Koran, when the Imams in mosques start dealing with "radical" or unusual behaviour then I might start to accept the moderate and extreme divisions.
I believe their faith is their politics, just as it governs their Sharia law.
The young woman in Paris who detonated her explosive vest was said to be very " Westernized" in her behaviour and appearance up until a month before the attacks. She was not a devout Muslim, and her brother and friends said that she didn't know or follow the Koran. It wasn't her "extreme beliefs" of her faith that drove her, it was the politics.
Until we accept that it's not their religeon that's driving them, we'll never defeat them.

Star from I, But-- although most still do not realise.

A female terror suspect who died during a police siege in the Paris suburb of Saint-Denis did not blow herself up, French investigators have revealed, but was killed when somebody standing next her detonated a suicide vest.
www.theguardian.com...

originally posted by: Vroomfondel

I think you switched songs to the one about grandma with the incriminating claus marks on her back...ahem...

Ok pal, now you crossed the line. That was offensive and I'm not going to stand for that kind of talk!! How dare you blaspheme the great and powerful Claus like that!!!

a reply to: Swills



Not once did I claim "X is caused by Y".

originally posted by: Swills
a reply to: OccamsRazor04

Oh I see, sorry I didn't specify what terrorists they were fighting but the poster I was responding too was clearly talking about ISIS and so was I. So I guess you can count that technicality as a win if it makes you feel good.

Not looking for a win. I was merely pointing out none of them are fighting terrorism. They all like terrorism. They just want the terrorists to be theirs.

I will be happy when they fight terrorism as an ideology, not when they fight a particular group that attacks them.

originally posted by: Swills
How about Saudi Arabia? Still going to ignore that issue huh?

How am I ignoring something you have never asked me about? Saudi Arabia is a sponsor of terrorism. They are just more covert. I put them in the same boat as far as terrorism goes.

originally posted by: Swills
a reply to: Urantia1111

I have no interest in discussing a topic with someone who refuses to read the article in the OP. So no suicide bombers on September 11, 2001? Or does that not count because they weren't wearing a vest attached with explosives?

Either way, I guess we both can move on, right?

No I don't believe the Official Story of 9/11 lol.

We're simply too far apart on this issue.

I shall trouble you no more.

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04

The Catholic church =/= Bible verses.

Ahh, now I see what you're getting at. Why didn't you just point that out instead of all the leading me along BS???

You're right I guess that is my bad. I should have specified Catholic and the Crusades. That's my fault but it's only because I'm always being told Catholics are Christians. I'm neither so I'm not going to try and figure out who's right in that case. I know they aren't exactly the same but neither are the many various Christian sects either but they're all still called Christian although they don't all agree.

But all that aside, getting the exact terminology used wasn't the point was it??? I'm sorry for my technical error and choice of words but the point behind them I believe was still clearly evident. But thanks for correcting my vocabulary, that is always such a pleasure when someone points that out.

Now that that's clear, did you get what I was trying to point out with my clumsy primitive use of our language???