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Here’s What a Man Who Studied Every Suicide Attack in the World Says About ISIS’ Motives

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posted on Dec, 13 2015 @ 09:20 PM
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Do we accuse or blame Christianity for killing the Cathars


The Catholics murdered this righteous, peaceful, sect



So what does Rome do you ask? Well the Pope Innocent III called a formal Crusade against the Cathars of the Languedoc, appointing a series of military leaders to head his Holy Army. The first was a Cistercian abbot (Arnaud Amaury) now best remembered for his command at Béziers "Kill them all. God will know his own".In 1208 the war began as it were its estimated before it ends over 500,000 people would be killed Languedoc men women and children were massacred both Catholics as well as Cathars. The Counts of Toulouse and their allies were dispossessed and humiliated, and their lands annexed to France. Dominic Guzmán (later Saint Dominic) founded the Dominican Order and soon afterwards the Inquisition, manned by his Dominicans, was established explicitly to wipe out the last vestiges of resistance. Id venture to say however this isnt true and there are still some very powerful people still battling the church from a war started centuries ago.I personally believe this is the current issue we see of christians being attacked. People were trying to destroy the Roman catholic church and using media but this lead to attack of all christians which wouldnt be there intent at all.


www.abovetopsecret.com...


Now the Catholics have accepted secular rule, thank God for that


But they were killing people up until the 18th century


They justified the murder and rape and pillage of the Native Americas based on religion up until the 1800's or so




posted on Dec, 13 2015 @ 09:20 PM
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originally posted by: mOjOm

Ahh, now I see what you're getting at. Why didn't you just point that out instead of all the leading me along BS???

Because you are thinking I was leading you along, I was not. For all I knew you had a list of verses taken out of context and I was actually interested in seeing them if you had them.


You're right I guess that is my bad. I should have specified Catholic and the Crusades. That's my fault but it's only because I'm always being told Catholics are Christians. I'm neither so I'm not going to try and figure out who's right in that case. I know they aren't exactly the same but neither are the many various Christian sects either but they're all still called Christian although they don't all agree.

It's definitely complicated, and far from black and white.


But all that aside, getting the exact terminology used wasn't the point was it??? I'm sorry for my technical error and choice of words but the point behind them I believe was still clearly evident. But thanks for correcting my vocabulary, that is always such a pleasure when someone points that out.

Now that that's clear, did you get what I was trying to point out with my clumsy primitive use of our language???

I do try to not argue semantics unless I feel the argument is valid. Since you were specifically comparing Bible verses to Quran verses I felt the use of semantics to distinguish Bible from Catholocism to be valid.

The point that much evil has been done in the name of Christianity is a valid one. I also find the point that Christianity has moved on from that, and Islam has not, and there is probably a reason for that, is also valid.



posted on Dec, 13 2015 @ 09:22 PM
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a reply to: Willtell

Two important points. One is both are guilty of atrocities in the past. The second is that one moved on, one did not. Why is that?



posted on Dec, 13 2015 @ 09:40 PM
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originally posted by: mOjOm

originally posted by: Vroomfondel

I think you switched songs to the one about grandma with the incriminating claus marks on her back...ahem...


Ok pal, now you crossed the line. That was offensive and I'm not going to stand for that kind of talk!! How dare you blaspheme the great and powerful Claus like that!!!



Not sure, but I think Granny was the aggressor in that event...



posted on Dec, 13 2015 @ 09:59 PM
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a reply to: Willtell

So you follow the two wrongs make a right theory? What do you think would happen if the Vatican started beheading Catholics who wanted to leave the Church, or started stoning women who committed adultery in St Peter's square today?

We have evolved.......



posted on Dec, 13 2015 @ 10:25 PM
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off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


 



posted on Dec, 13 2015 @ 10:28 PM
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originally posted by: Vroomfondel
Not sure, but I think Granny was the aggressor in that event...


Oh I get it. So now you want to attack Grandmaism huh?!?!? That's even worse than being Anti-Clausism by all measure.

I guess we'll just have to torture a confession out of you now until you realize the truth of your demon possession. Denying that you're under the control of Evil Spirits will only prolong your torture and eventually you'll admit to it anyway. At which point we'll have to torture and kill you obviously because you just admitted that you're possessed.

But remember, this is for your own good and it's not me doing it. You caused all this torture you're about to experience yourself because of your wicked ways. I just want to make that clear because that's how I justify doing it without feeling any shame for it.



Amazing how easy and frequently such rhetoric is used upon people with their full support. We all see the humor in what I just wrote but it's not all that different from the ideas which have brutalized so many innocent people through history.



posted on Dec, 13 2015 @ 10:30 PM
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originally posted by: mOjOm
I guess we'll just have to torture a confession out of you now until you realize the truth of your demon possession

Waterboarding is wrong. Which is why we use snow.



posted on Dec, 13 2015 @ 10:32 PM
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originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
The point that much evil has been done in the name of Christianity is a valid one. I also find the point that Christianity has moved on from that, and Islam has not, and there is probably a reason for that, is also valid.


Ummmm, that still isn't exactly the point I was trying to make. But it's closer that before so I'll just leave it as is for now and hope for the best.

It's still a positive result whenever some common ground can be agreed upon.



posted on Dec, 13 2015 @ 10:34 PM
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originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
Waterboarding is wrong. Which is why we use snow.


Lol. Takes a little longer that way too!!!


I'll think twice if you ever invite me to go snowboarding now!!
edit on 13-12-2015 by mOjOm because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 13 2015 @ 10:42 PM
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originally posted by: mOjOm

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
The point that much evil has been done in the name of Christianity is a valid one. I also find the point that Christianity has moved on from that, and Islam has not, and there is probably a reason for that, is also valid.


Ummmm, that still isn't exactly the point I was trying to make. But it's closer that before so I'll just leave it as is for now and hope for the best.

It's still a positive result whenever some common ground can be agreed upon.

Well I am not looking to convert you and had no hidden agenda in my original reply and am completely satisfied with where things are.



posted on Dec, 13 2015 @ 10:43 PM
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originally posted by: mOjOm

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
Waterboarding is wrong. Which is why we use snow.


Lol. Takes a little longer that way too!!!


I'll think twice if you ever invite me to go snowboarding now!!

Never been! Had a few girls try to take me. I used to ski in my younger years.



posted on Dec, 14 2015 @ 03:43 AM
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originally posted by: vjr1113
a reply to: Willtell

are you saying the quran doesnt say to kill infidels? muslims that choose not to follow that path of extremism is good.


This is highly contentious, here, "are you saying the Bible doesnt tell us to stone people to death and kill gay people?"

The same BS argument can be applied over many religions...


Leviticus 18:22
You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination.

Leviticus 20:13
"'If a man has sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They are to be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads.


biblehub.com...

biblehub.com...

The biggest difference of Christianity and Islam is that in the 1800s the church, which used to play a huge role in politics and funded schools and before that, during the monarchies, had a huge number of royal kingdoms directly answering to them, faded out of its position of political power.

I made a recent thread about Muslims who are working for modernization of Islam who believe in secular rule by government, that seek to make Islam a modern religion, much like how Christianity has evolved over the last couple hundred years. Because in times before that, its not much different than Islam at all.

The primary take away here, is that since its inception, its history reads like a political playbook, much like what they are saying about Islam in the OP.

Muslim reform movement
edit on 14-12-2015 by boncho because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 14 2015 @ 03:45 AM
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a reply to: Swills

This is interesting but suicide bombers are really gorilla warfare, which our ordered armies etc can't protect against so effectively without spying on each and every one of us.

I also have a hard time taking Sharia out of muslim motivation for trying to force their religion down everyone's throats.
According to Sharia you can't leave islam without being killed so if one is looking for murderous intent, sharia fits the bill.

The article does bring up a point that I think epitomises the religiously powerful's motivation though and that is that many more today are sick of their religion sad-sack promotions and demanding emotional blackmail and simply want to get on with their lives without religious interference.

For many religion is becoming an irrelevance and this is making those who gain their identity and prestige through only religion and not work of any other kind, more vicious and dangerously determined to protect their power base. Its this group that are the terrorists in truth, Lidia Wilson was right about the ignorant being used as fodder. One wonders were we to have the level of employment we had before all the technology came in and these people were working, would they be so easily available for recruitment. No future is enough in itself without any other motivation for ignorant angst.



posted on Dec, 14 2015 @ 03:47 AM
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originally posted by: boncho

originally posted by: vjr1113
a reply to: Willtell

are you saying the quran doesnt say to kill infidels? muslims that choose not to follow that path of extremism is good.


This is highly contentious, here, "are you saying the Bible doesnt tell us to stone people to death and kill gay people?"

The same BS argument can be applied over a few religions...

It doesn't. Certainly not unless you are a Jew. I will be happy to supply passages if you care.



posted on Dec, 14 2015 @ 04:01 AM
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originally posted by: OccamsRazor04

originally posted by: boncho

originally posted by: vjr1113
a reply to: Willtell

are you saying the quran doesnt say to kill infidels? muslims that choose not to follow that path of extremism is good.


This is highly contentious, here, "are you saying the Bible doesnt tell us to stone people to death and kill gay people?"

The same BS argument can be applied over a few religions...

It doesn't. Certainly not unless you are a Jew. I will be happy to supply passages if you care.


I thought the Jewish faith regards the Torah for their holy scripture?


And he that blasphemeth the name of the LORD, he shall surely be put to death, and all the congregation shall certainly stone him. Leviticus 24:16


If a damsel that is a virgin be betrothed unto an husband, and a man find her in the city, and lie with her; Then ye shall bring them both out unto the gate of that city, and ye shall stone them with stones that they die; the damsel, because she cried not, being in the city. Deuteronomy 22:23-24

If there be found among you ... that ... hath gone and served other gods, and worshipped them ... Then shalt thou ... tone them with stones, till they die. Deuteronomy 17:2-5

If thy brother, the son of thy mother, or thy son, or thy daughter, or the wife of thy bosom, or thy friend, which is as thine own soul, entice thee secretly, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which thou hast not known, thou, nor thy fathers ... thou shalt stone him with stones, that he die. Deuteronomy 13:5-10

skepticsannotatedbible.com...


I edited and updated my other post with the direct quotes from leviticus, which is often referenced by Christian fundis who are against gay marriage, believing any man who commits the 'abomination' that is gay marriage, should be put to death.

The parallels are uncanny.
edit on 14-12-2015 by boncho because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 14 2015 @ 04:08 AM
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originally posted by: boncho
I thought the Jewish faith regards the Torah for their holy scripture?

As I said, it does not, unless you are a Jew. I will be happy to provide the scripture if you need it.

Since you brought up gays, sexual morality is one of the few things Christians need to follow from those laws. There is no Earthly punishment mentioned though.


Act 15:7
After much discussion, Peter got up and addressed them: “Brothers, you know that some time ago God made a choice among you that the Gentiles might hear from my lips the message of the gospel and believe.

Act 15:8
God, who knows the heart, showed that he accepted them by giving the Holy Spirit to them, just as he did to us.

Act 15:9
He did not discriminate between us and them, for he purified their hearts by faith.

Act 15:10
Now then, why do you try to test God by putting on the necks of Gentiles a yoke that neither we nor our ancestors have been able to bear?

Act 15:11
No! We believe it is through the grace of our Lord Jesus that we are saved, just as they are.”

edit on 14-12-2015 by OccamsRazor04 because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 14 2015 @ 04:11 AM
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originally posted by: Shiloh7
This is interesting but suicide bombers are really gorilla warfare, which our ordered armies etc can't protect against so effectively without spying on each and every one of us.



In general, even with lots of spying there isn't much defense against someone willing to die in reaching their goal of killing others. Someone who's willing to commit their own life to take another is and always will be a difficult target unless you isolate everyone from each other. As long as there is some social interaction there isn't much you can do about it.



posted on Dec, 14 2015 @ 05:09 AM
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originally posted by: Swills
www.alternet.org...



Despite the existence of a good deal of research about terrorism, there’s a gap between the common understanding of what leads terrorists to kill and what many experts believe to be true.

Terrorist groups like ISIS and Al Qaeda are widely seen as being motivated by their radical theology. But according to Robert Pape, a political scientist at the University of Chicago and founder of the Chicago Project on Security and Terrorism, this view is too simplistic. Pape knows his subject; he and his colleagues have studied every suicide attack in the world since 1980, evaluating over 4,600 in all.

He says that religious fervor is not a motive unto itself. Rather, it serves as a tool for recruitment and a potent means of getting people to overcome their fear of death and natural aversion to killing innocents. “Very often, suicide attackers realize they have instincts for self-preservation that they have to overcome,” and religious beliefs are often part of that process, said Pape in an appearance on my radio show, Politics and Reality Radio, last week. But, Pape adds, there have been “many hundreds of secular suicide attackers,” which suggests that radical theology alone doesn’t explain terrorist attacks. From 1980 until about 2003, the “world leader” in suicide attacks was the Tamil Tigers, a secular Marxist group of Hindu nationalists in Sri Lanka.


I hope everyone who has read this far continues onto the link and finishes the article because it's fascinating and eye opening. In today's media fear is being driven about Muslims, Sharia Law, the dreaded Caliphate and it's believed terrorists are what they are because of Islam. We've seen thread after thread, post after post demonizing Islam and the root cause of this ignorance is because of terrorism. We have people like Trump saying we need to ban all Muslims from the USA because of terrorist attacks and that's because it's commonly believed if you're a Muslim you're probably a terrorist.

Turns out, terrorism isn't based off of religion but political motives. Religion is a great tool to used for recruitment and quelling the minds of suicide bombers to kill themselves but military occupation is usually the driving force behind these attacks.



Read the whole article. Multiple times. And all I see is just more brainwashing bull***t trying to get us all to associate terrorism with muslims.
Terrorism doesn't have to be political or religious. You don't have to be muslim to commit a terrorist attack. This guy is no expert on suicide attacks. I would like to know what explanation this pape guy and this website can give for terrorist suicide attacks such as columbine and sandy hook.



posted on Dec, 14 2015 @ 06:11 AM
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a reply to: OccamsRazor04

Okay I get it now. You are saying because God spoke to Moses about the Israelites its only relevant to Jews. The problem is (as far as I know) it's still gods word and its still in the Christian bibles.

It's really not relevant though. The history of Christianity and the violence therein, along with 'words of god' advocating punishment, is the point.

Even a Christian resource that rationalizes the differences from the Old Testament from the New Testament describes it as:


The Old Testament provides the history of a people; the New Testament focus is on a Person. The Old Testament shows the wrath of God against sin (with glimpses of His grace); the New Testament shows the grace of God toward sinners (with glimpses of His wrath).


www.gotquestions.org...

Saying gods wrath doesn't count because he was only talking about Jews, or because Jesus cancelled that out by saying ...." It's the same thing that happens in Islamic teachings where a later verse supersedes another, but radicals focus only on the earlier example in their interpretations. I have met people who reference the Leviticus texts specifically to denounce homosexuality. And Im pretty sure you can find some Christian examples of this in the US, non-Jews, doing the exact same thing.

Actually, yep, here it is, Westeboro clearly references Leviticus and other scripture on its homepage.


"GOD HATES FAGS" -- though elliptical -- is a profound theological statement, which the world needs to hear more than it needs oxygen, water and bread. The three words, fully expounded, show:

1. the absolute sovereignty of "GOD" in all matters whatsoever (e.g., Jeremiah 32:17, Isaiah 45:7, Amos 3:6, Proverbs 16:4, Matthew 19:26, Romans 9:11-24, Romans 11:33-36, etc.),

2. the doctrine of reprobation or God's "HATE" involving eternal retribution or the everlasting punishment of most of mankind in Hell forever (e.g., Leviticus 20:13,23, Psalm 5:5, Psalm 11:5, Malachi 1:1-3, Romans 9:11-13, Matthew 7:13,23, John 12:39-40, 1 Peter 2:8, Jude 4, Revelation 13:8, 20:15, 21:27, etc.), and

3. the certainty that all impenitent sodomites (under the elegant metaphor of "FAGS" as the contraction of faggots, fueling the fires of God's wrath) will inevitably go to Hell (e.g., Romans 1:18-32, 1 Corinthians 6:9-11, 1 Timothy 1:8-11, Jude 7, etc.).


Last I checked WBC are not Jews.

The point is that the same thing can be said about Islam. I recently made a thread on the Muslim Reform Movement which is a group of Islamic scholars or public personalities across the world who seek to modernize Islam by endorsing Islamic faith but within secular government.

The same rationalizations made by the OP researchers could be made about Christianity as well. Kings and Queens for centuries all answered to the Pope, except, in Britain they had a falling out and then the whole Protestant movement happened, but again, that's all politics isn't it?

Look at early schooling, schools were funded and administered by the Christian Church. Easy way to get into a child's head early on isn't it? The point being throughout the history of Christianity, the political movements of the church are just as prominent as their religious positions. In time though, it modernized and for the most part it now exists in a world of secular governmental powers (minus the Vatican) and there is no reason Islam cannot reach the same end.

There is also no reason Islam should be viewed any differently, when the same argument could be made about both religions, and both religions have their political bastardization.


edit on 14-12-2015 by boncho because: (no reason given)




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