Top Economists Are Backing Sen. Bernie Sanders on Establishing a $15 an Hour Minimum Wage

originally posted by: WTFover

originally posted by: Gryphon66

Do you have examples of this after previous raises in the minimum wage?

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Also, if the minimum wage is raised, what do people do with that money? They spend it. On what? Goods and services. So DEMAND goes up, sales VOLUMES go up, profits increase, people are hired to meet demand, etc. etc.

Also known as the Engine of the American Economy, at least, once upon a time.

Except that when wages increase, so do prices on those goods, so the consumer ends up spending more for the same or lower quantity of goods and services.

The elephant in the room, of this discussion, is that U.S. workers already have a better quality of life than most. Sadly, what most consider and seek in a "living wage" is enough to buy the newest and largest televisions, 200+ cable channels, $700 iPhones, dine out 7 or more times per week, etc.

So how is it that countries like Norway, Germany etc have less income I equality better security and happier populations without hyper inflation with higher minimums?

The current models they are using prove you wrong. The only thing that goes down is the profits the overlords make.

a reply to: Phage

1
As I noted previously, you are not in favor of a "living wage" ... but you asked and I provided the basis of the concept.


2
It depends on who makes the hamburger, doesn't it?

Also, if twice or three times as many hamburgers are being purchased, how does that change the equation?

ETA: I would guess that profit margin in fast food is not based on hamburgers sold but likely soft drinks.

originally posted by: johnwick

originally posted by: rockpaperhammock

originally posted by: johnwick

originally posted by: rockpaperhammock
One of the issues I take with this is even most professional positions in small towns start under 15 dollars an hour. Ask your local cops and fireman what they start at in populations less than 10,000....key here is what they "start" at. You will find most are under 15 bucks an hour.

I'm cool with minimum wage being raised but I think you will see more people skip college and settle for an easier job...why be in debt after school when you can make 30k a year as a stress free janitor? And im in no way knocking janitors as cleaning around the house is one of the most relaxing things I do...I oddly enjoy cleaning and find it soothing...id love to do it for 15 bucks an hour.

This is just something im thinking of I honestly have no clue how this would turn out but id rather take a chill job for 15 bucks an hour than a hustle and bustle job for 20....

Stress free janitor......

Because he has no stress, child support takes $10,000 from him up front, then uncle Sam taxes the entire amount for $4,000.

The stress free janitor is eligible for zero help, and must try to live off $16,000 a year, at $4 a gallon milk prices.

No stress my arse.

Re read what you wrote lol....I said the job...the job of janitor...not all the life ailments such as child support...child support would cause stress on anyone. Making 16,000 a year would cause stress on anyone. And in my argument im talking about a janitor that makes 15 dollars an hour. Did you not read anything I wrote mate haha? Do over?

I dont know why I even get involved in threads anymore...no one reads anything anyone else writes.

Um...... $30,000 is $15 an hour 40 hours a week 52 weeks a year.

Stressed nonstop by the poverty he lives in, work stress is not ever as tiring as real life stress.

$15 an hour is nothing in a $4 a gallon of milk economy.

Read my EDIT below first....I confused something you wrote but left my statement in its original form: Ok this time you make a valid argument that even 30,000 dollars a year could be stressful...ok...but that isnt what you said....you said 16,000 a year and paying child support. And I agree work stress isnt ever as tiring as real life stress...that is why I never brought real life stress into it.

To maybe help clarify my original statement...I am saying people may choose jobs that they believe have less stress over jobs that would be high stress and maybe require a degree etc etc. Meaning that in theory less people would care to educate themselves as they can snag up any job for 15 bucks an hour. Now a husband and wife both making 15 bucks an hour are making 60k a year. 60k is pretty damn nice...definitely doable for a husband and wife....so why go to college? The same scenario for two college grads may walk away making 80k a year together but having 50 to 100k in student loans.

In my past line of work I have been shot at and stabbed at...puked on..probably # on among other things. It was high stress...and I made a lot of money for it. With that..id have gladly given up my job earlier and become a janitor considering I saved almost every penny I made outside my bills and was able to stop working very young. But the # ive seen makes me despise people to the point that I really only talk to humans online and not in person any more. So ya if I could go back id take janitor for less stress.

EDIT: I just realized where we are confused...You are saying 16k after the child support and taxes....I seee what you mean now...sure ok...but that can be any job and ya I dont know what to say...if you have a kid...you have a kid.

a reply to: Gryphon66

As I noted previously, you are not in favor of a "living wage" ... but you asked and I provided the basis of the concept.

As I stated previously, I don't think everyone who is employed should receive a "living wage" simply because they are employed.

It depends on who makes the hamburger, doesn't it?

No.

Also, if twice or three times as many hamburgers are being purchased, how does that change the equation?

Not a jot. The per hamburger cost does not change unless labor and/or material costs do.

I would guess that profit margin in fast food is not based on hamburgers sold but likely soft drinks.

If we are guessing, I would guess you are wrong.

Had minimum wage kept up with inflation rates all these years like it should have, there wouldn't be this damn problem of now having to play 'catch up'.

Like it or not people, if you're not paying a little more at the cash register to accomodate a long overdue minimum wage hike.... then you're going to be doling out more straight from your paycheques by way of taxes to pay for more and more of your fellow countrymen having to use food stamp programs to feed themselves and keep a roof over their heads.

You are all going to pay the piper in one way or another because TPTB screwed this one up royally by not keeping minimum wage on par with inflation rates for all these decades.

THAT is an indisputable fact.

a reply to: onequestion

I'm not sure what sources you've read, but I'd be interested, if you'll share.

Private wealth is more unevenly distributed in Germany, Europe's largest economy and paymaster, than in any other euro zone state, a study showed on Wednesday.

While the richest one percent of people in Germany have personal wealth of at least 800,000 euros ($1.09 million), over a quarter of adults have either no wealth or negative wealth because of debt, the study by Germany's DIW think tank showed.

"Nowhere in the euro zone is wealth so unequally distributed as it is in Germany," DIW Research Associate Markus Grabka said in a statement.

www.reuters.com...

For the first time ever, the wealth gap grew more in the Nordic region and Germany than anywhere else in the “traditionally low-inequality countries” during first decade of the 21st century, the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development said in a report in 2011.

www.bloomberg.com...

"Happier?" That's quite a subjective term you use.

a reply to: WTFover

Saw Germany mentioned and wanted to add something about their tax structure too...if you are a single male over there you are paying some serious taxes..I think my buddy was paying 50% or so while his ex wife was getting "kindergeld" for each child she had from the government. Maybe someone from Germany can comment but it has to be rough with low paying jobs as a single male over there.

a reply to: WTFover

The wealthiest people in Germany only have 800,000 euros? Thats gotta be a joke.

Oh, and let's not forget Greece.

a reply to: onequestion

Ummm, are you saying that number is low?

a reply to: WTFover

Yeah that's pretty low.

That's peanuts in the states.

a reply to: Phage

As I stated previously, I don't think everyone who is employed should receive a "living wage" simply because they are employed.

Why not? Wouldn't a living wage promote a healthy & active economy?

I mean, if a person can't make a living wage by working a full time job, then what logic do they have for working in the first place?

They might as well just go live in a high crime area, where the rents cheap and then live on welfare and food stamps. Then just sit around all day watching tv and getting drunk and high.

You've got to give people incentive, if you want them to be productive.

a reply to: onequestion

Interesting, since you previously said,

So how is it that countries like Norway, Germany etc have less income I equality better security and happier populations without hyper inflation with higher minimums?

Gotta call it a night. Up early for work.

a reply to: WTFover

They have far less Inequality than we do. The top 1% in the US are billionaires.

a reply to: Subaeruginosa

Yeah just because you work doesn't mean you should get payed for it loser.

a reply to: Subaeruginosa

Why not? Wouldn't a living wage promote a healthy & active economy?

Wouldn't increased production costs lead to increased prices?
Wouldn't prices increased beyond market capacity mean reduced sales?
Wouldn't reduced sales mean lower employment?

a reply to: Phage

The economy is BROKEN hasn't ever worked in the modern era except for those at the top which is why we are constantly fixing it.

Like I said in my last thread... We don't need everyone to work anymore we need a new way ofanaging things. Less hours new ideas something.

originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: OccamsRazor04

And the argument against either one is that it will bankrupt businesses.

Thus, my question.

In some states if you make it $10 and you do not allow for price increases it would. Prices will increase, hurting the average middle class person.

Do you have examples of this after previous raises in the minimum wage?

Also, if the minimum wage is raised, what do people do with that money? They spend it. On what? Goods and services. So DEMAND goes up, sales VOLUMES go up, profits increase, people are hired to meet demand, etc. etc.

Also known as the Engine of the American Economy, at least, once upon a time.

I already quoted the margins for restaurants. I can't give an example because businesses have never been forced to keep prices the same. When costs go up, prices go up.

originally posted by: WTFover

originally posted by: tridentblue

It would be less of a shock to the system if they took regional cost of living into account though. People in new york city probably need like $18, people in Seattle $16, people in smaller cities $13, people in rural areas $11, to have a basic life.

And that's why the federal minimum wage laws should be repealed and wages should be left to the market. The Invisible Hand at work.

The problem is, I'm not sure that thinking pans out. If the real (purchasing power) value of the minimum wage has been falling, as reported, then people should have all been negotiating for higher wages. But they haven't been. Instead, we see falling wages:
www.businessinsider.com...
People are not being compensated for higher productivity:
www.nytimes.com...

Honestly, I almost think you're right though. It actually would be better off if we had no minimum wage, then the status quo. It would make everyone think, and demand the wages they need to live. Or else it needs to go up. The status quo has GOT to go.