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Top Economists Are Backing Sen. Bernie Sanders on Establishing a $15 an Hour Minimum Wage

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posted on Jul, 26 2015 @ 10:25 PM
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originally posted by: intrptr
a reply to: Subaeruginosa


Prove it.

Countries with a higher minimum wage don't seem to pay much more for a loaf of bread, as far as I can tell.

Did those countries you don't name get their wages roughly doubled overnight?


I suppose not. But that just proves there's no evidence to support the claim.

Fact is, Australia has double the minimum wage rate as the US and we pay about the same for basic products.... But usually a little more for luxury items.

Point is, a person can work on minimum wage here without the need to live on food stamps.
edit on 26-7-2015 by Subaeruginosa because: (no reason given)




posted on Jul, 26 2015 @ 10:29 PM
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originally posted by: intrptr
a reply to:


Did those countries you don't name get their wages roughly doubled overnight?



No - and neither will the USA - AFAIK Sanders is advocating it by 2020 isn't he - that's a few years away, not overnight.

and not "near enough to overnight" either or anything like it - and indeed it may not be achieved even if he were to become President!

Her in New Zealand the minimum wage has doubled from 1997-2015 - see here - but there are also different levels for being in training and being a "new entrant"/starting out/youth - which have all had various definitions.

During that time frame the official consumer price index has risen about 50% from 800 to 1200



posted on Jul, 26 2015 @ 10:29 PM
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originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: Gryphon66

Let me be even more clear: States that have not raised the minimum wage on their own must have it done for them.
Consitution be damned. Ok.



Why shouldn't the national minimum wage be consistent, based on the national average cost of living?
Because the cost of living is not consistent from state to state, much less county to county or city to city. Because where is it stated that a kid in high school and living with his parents should be paid a "living wage" whatever the hell that means.



Who's damning the Constitution?



COTUS Article VI, Clause 2

This Constitution, and the Laws of the United States which shall be made in pursuance thereof; and all treaties made, or which shall be made, under the authority of the United States, shall be the supreme law of the land; and the judges in every state shall be bound thereby, anything in the constitution or laws of any state to the contrary notwithstanding.


Also, ETA



Article I, Section 8, Clause 3

[The Congress shall have Power] To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes;


You disagree with the concept of a living wage. Fair enough.

What data do you have to demonstrate that such an increase would increase inflation OR unemployment.

Higher wages mean more fluid capital. Perhaps that wage increase fuels an increase in demand for goods and services, which actually reduces unemployment (or inflation, take your pick.)

That was Henry Ford's idea at least. He wanted to pay his employees enough so that they could buy his cars.

I'm not saying you're wrong ... I'm asking for the basis of your position.
edit on 22Sun, 26 Jul 2015 22:32:09 -050015p102015766 by Gryphon66 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 26 2015 @ 10:31 PM
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a reply to: Aloysius the Gaul



but there are also different levels for being in training and being a "new entrant"/starting out/youth - which have all had various definitions.
That is a more rational approach than an across the board increase. At least it (somewhat) addresses the effects of seniority and experience.


edit on 7/26/2015 by Phage because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 26 2015 @ 10:31 PM
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$15 dollar minimum wage sounds like quite a bit. Anyways, what we should do is get the U.S. off of oil. We have sufficient solar power in the U.S. to meet ALL our energy needs. All of that money spent on the military, basically, protecting our access to oil and paying for oil would instead go to the American worker. A 3000 square mile solar panel array would generate sufficient energy to meet ALL of the U.S. energy needs.

Building, operating, and maintaining the new infrastructure must be performed here in the U.S. which means the jobs cannot be outsourced.

So, the American worker can help ensure the energy security of the U.S. for the next 5 billion years, instead of gangstalking neighbors!!



posted on Jul, 26 2015 @ 10:35 PM
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originally posted by: johnwick

originally posted by: rockpaperhammock
One of the issues I take with this is even most professional positions in small towns start under 15 dollars an hour. Ask your local cops and fireman what they start at in populations less than 10,000....key here is what they "start" at. You will find most are under 15 bucks an hour.

I'm cool with minimum wage being raised but I think you will see more people skip college and settle for an easier job...why be in debt after school when you can make 30k a year as a stress free janitor? And im in no way knocking janitors as cleaning around the house is one of the most relaxing things I do...I oddly enjoy cleaning and find it soothing...id love to do it for 15 bucks an hour.

This is just something im thinking of I honestly have no clue how this would turn out but id rather take a chill job for 15 bucks an hour than a hustle and bustle job for 20....


Stress free janitor......

Because he has no stress, child support takes $10,000 from him up front, then uncle Sam taxes the entire amount for $4,000.

The stress free janitor is eligible for zero help, and must try to live off $16,000 a year, at $4 a gallon milk prices.

No stress my arse.


Re read what you wrote lol....I said the job...the job of janitor...not all the life ailments such as child support...child support would cause stress on anyone. Making 16,000 a year would cause stress on anyone. And in my argument im talking about a janitor that makes 15 dollars an hour. Did you not read anything I wrote mate haha? Do over?

I dont know why I even get involved in threads anymore...no one reads anything anyone else writes.
edit on 26-7-2015 by rockpaperhammock because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 26 2015 @ 10:40 PM
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a reply to: Aloysius the Gaul

Yah, its never as simple as it sounds and they always make it sound good.

NO money down, no payments till 2017, and zero interest!



posted on Jul, 26 2015 @ 10:41 PM
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a reply to: rockpaperhammock



And in my argument im talking about a janitor that makes 15 dollars an hour.


I wouldn't want to clean toilets for a living for even $27 an hour. It'd be a horrible job and extremely stressful.



posted on Jul, 26 2015 @ 10:42 PM
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a reply to: Subaeruginosa




It'd be a horrible job and extremely stressful.

Boring, yes.
Stressful, no.

But is stress level a determinant for wages? Since when?


edit on 7/26/2015 by Phage because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 26 2015 @ 10:45 PM
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a reply to: Subaeruginosa

I disagree...coming from the military Ive had to clean everything ...when you keep things clean they are easier to clean. Sure every now and then someone #s all over the place or something weird...is it that hard to clean? Try being a paramedic or a cop where if you do everything right you can still be sued and lose everything you own.



posted on Jul, 26 2015 @ 10:46 PM
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originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: OccamsRazor04

And the argument against either one is that it will bankrupt businesses.

Thus, my question.

In some states if you make it $10 and you do not allow for price increases it would. Prices will increase, hurting the average middle class person.



posted on Jul, 26 2015 @ 10:47 PM
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Among Best Jobs, It Pays to Be Stressed - US News and World Report




As it turns out, the highest-stress jobs also on average have the highest pay, and the lowest-stress jobs tend to get lower wages.



posted on Jul, 26 2015 @ 10:50 PM
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originally posted by: OccamsRazor04

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: OccamsRazor04

And the argument against either one is that it will bankrupt businesses.

Thus, my question.

In some states if you make it $10 and you do not allow for price increases it would. Prices will increase, hurting the average middle class person.


Do you have examples of this after previous raises in the minimum wage?

Also, if the minimum wage is raised, what do people do with that money? They spend it. On what? Goods and services. So DEMAND goes up, sales VOLUMES go up, profits increase, people are hired to meet demand, etc. etc.

Also known as the Engine of the American Economy, at least, once upon a time.
edit on 22Sun, 26 Jul 2015 22:50:56 -050015p102015766 by Gryphon66 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 26 2015 @ 10:53 PM
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a reply to: Gryphon66

Who's damning the Constitution?
You. In suggesting that because most states have higher minimum wage requirements than federal standards, federal law should require that all states follow suit. Can you show me where, in the Constitution, the notion of a "living wage" is presented?


You disagree with the concept of a living wage. Fair enough.
I disagree that "a living wage" is the same for everyone and that simply because one is employed they should receive it.



That was Henry Ford's idea at least. He wanted to pay his employees enough so that they could buy his cars.
And if he had been required to pay more than what their efforts earned him, would they have been able to afford that car?






edit on 7/26/2015 by Phage because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 26 2015 @ 11:05 PM
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a reply to: Phage

CONSTITUION

Now you're simply being disingenuous. You know about the Commerce Clause as well as I do. Not only that, I quoted it for your reference. No, I'm not aware of a reference to living wage in the Constitution. I'm also not aware of references to the CDC, NASA or the NOAA. Would you like to rid us of those as well?

The Commerce Clause coupled with the Supremacy Clause is the basis of the Federal Government's power to set a minimum wage in the States, like it or no. The concept is not damning the Constitution.

Also, Fair Labor Standards Act, 1938.

ETA: United States v. Darby, 312 U.S. 100 (1940)

LIVING WAGE

Do you disagree that there is a minimum amount that would allow an individual or a family to have the minimum accommodations for housing, food, medical care, etc?

FORD, ET. AL.

Now, demonstrate that any increase in the minimum wage will result in an employee being paid more than their efforts earn a given business.


edit on 23Sun, 26 Jul 2015 23:05:43 -050015p112015766 by Gryphon66 because: (no reason given)

edit on 23Sun, 26 Jul 2015 23:06:53 -050015p112015766 by Gryphon66 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 26 2015 @ 11:06 PM
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originally posted by: rockpaperhammock

originally posted by: johnwick

originally posted by: rockpaperhammock
One of the issues I take with this is even most professional positions in small towns start under 15 dollars an hour. Ask your local cops and fireman what they start at in populations less than 10,000....key here is what they "start" at. You will find most are under 15 bucks an hour.

I'm cool with minimum wage being raised but I think you will see more people skip college and settle for an easier job...why be in debt after school when you can make 30k a year as a stress free janitor? And im in no way knocking janitors as cleaning around the house is one of the most relaxing things I do...I oddly enjoy cleaning and find it soothing...id love to do it for 15 bucks an hour.

This is just something im thinking of I honestly have no clue how this would turn out but id rather take a chill job for 15 bucks an hour than a hustle and bustle job for 20....


Stress free janitor......

Because he has no stress, child support takes $10,000 from him up front, then uncle Sam taxes the entire amount for $4,000.

The stress free janitor is eligible for zero help, and must try to live off $16,000 a year, at $4 a gallon milk prices.

No stress my arse.


Re read what you wrote lol....I said the job...the job of janitor...not all the life ailments such as child support...child support would cause stress on anyone. Making 16,000 a year would cause stress on anyone. And in my argument im talking about a janitor that makes 15 dollars an hour. Did you not read anything I wrote mate haha? Do over?

I dont know why I even get involved in threads anymore...no one reads anything anyone else writes.


Um...... $30,000 is $15 an hour 40 hours a week 52 weeks a year.

Stressed nonstop by the poverty he lives in, work stress is not ever as tiring as real life stress.

$15 an hour is nothing in a $4 a gallon of milk economy.



posted on Jul, 26 2015 @ 11:07 PM
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a reply to: Gryphon66

Do you disagree that there is a minimum amount that would allow an individual or a family to have the minimum accommodations for housing, food, medical care, etc?
No. I disagree that every person who is employed should receive such a wage simply because they are employed.



Now, demonstrate that any increase in the minimum wage will result in an employee being paid more than their efforts earn a given business.
What is the profit margin on a hamburger? How many hamburgers can a hamburger maker make in an hour?


edit on 7/26/2015 by Phage because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 26 2015 @ 11:07 PM
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a reply to: johnwick

Don't remind anyone that wages have not kept up with inflation ... that spoils the game.

LOL.



posted on Jul, 26 2015 @ 11:10 PM
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originally posted by: Gryphon66

Do you have examples of this after previous raises in the minimum wage?


www.abovetopsecret.com...


Also, if the minimum wage is raised, what do people do with that money? They spend it. On what? Goods and services. So DEMAND goes up, sales VOLUMES go up, profits increase, people are hired to meet demand, etc. etc.

Also known as the Engine of the American Economy, at least, once upon a time.


Except that when wages increase, so do prices on those goods, so the consumer ends up spending more for the same or lower quantity of goods and services.

The elephant in the room, of this discussion, is that U.S. workers already have a better quality of life than most. Sadly, what most consider and seek in a "living wage" is enough to buy the newest and largest televisions, 200+ cable channels, $700 iPhones, dine out 7 or more times per week, etc.



posted on Jul, 26 2015 @ 11:11 PM
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If your looking at data for what happens when you drastically implement economic controls such as doubling the minimum wage please refer to the time earlier on in the 1930's when they start the entire program in the first place and the reasons behind why it was start.

I've read so much lieing and bad information here it's crazy.


No I tellectual honesty at all just people who want to be right at all cost.



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