Top Economists Are Backing Sen. Bernie Sanders on Establishing a $15 an Hour Minimum Wage

a reply to: Gryphon66

no. they are all out to make obscene profits and contribute nothing to society with their riches. i was just saying that if more people that are at the top in these mega corporations were not as focused on the almighty dollar, and just a touch more concerned with improving the world, they would do the right thing on their own. i wouldn't want to work anywhere that has some faceless person behind the scenes sitting on a big pile of money, living in a multi million dollar house while their employees just rely on the government for assistance.

originally posted by: blondegiraffe
a reply to: Gryphon66

no. they are all out to make obscene profits and contribute nothing to society with their riches. i was just saying that if more people that are at the top in these mega corporations were not as focused on the almighty dollar, and just a touch more concerned with improving the world, they would do the right thing on their own. i wouldn't want to work anywhere that has some faceless person behind the scenes sitting on a big pile of money, living in a multi million dollar house while their employees just rely on the government for assistance.

Sadly, capitalism is not about compassion, it's about profit.

a reply to: Gryphon66

you can still make money hand over fist, even if you are compassionate. common sense says the happier workers you have the less turnover you have, the less training costs, better attendance and schedule adherance. better reputation in the community, so good word of mouth to potential customers.

a reply to: Aazadan

man everyone takes the words I write as so literal...You can substitute any career path that requires some kind of college education in my statement....its like a variable ...

Ill give another example....this one is literal and real. Buddy went to a real high end school and graduated with a computer science degree and left about 160k in debt. He couldn't find a good job at the time and eventually wasnt doing programming like he studied but is more of a troubleshooter for an insurance company when computers are having issues. I think he makes somewhere around 25 dollars an hour after being there quite some time.

What you failed to take from my post is that im agreeing with you....25 dollars an hour is not a lot of money for someone who had to go 160k in debt. So if this man knew that he could get a 15 dollar an hour job anywhere with no skill or training whatsoever...then he probably would have.

The fact is you can educate yourself and his situation he wanted to make computer games. So he could have worked any 15 dollar an hour job and took his extra time to chase his hobby of making games. Now instead he lives in debt and fear that he will lose his job...while lets say the new 15 dollar hour guys can just quit and go find another job easy for the same pay.

Raising the minimum wage to 15 dollars screws over people who had to learn or pay for a particular set of skills.



The over all thing I have been trying to convey is that you will see less people go to college and a gap of qualified people for technical jobs...but here is where I think it will get worse. Nothing is free...you wont just get 15 bucks an hour and everyone is happy. My theory is they will start making schools for jobs that never needed schools before. You will now see the burger flipper school which is 6 months and cost 2k to get your certificate. The Hotel desk cleark school which is 6 months and cost 2k. They will still find a way to make back their money. You'll have 15 bucks an hour all right...and be debt from all the schools you need for every job....this is just my own personal theory.

originally posted by: xuenchen
Yes.

This is one way to purge the public assistance dependency dilemma.

Let's hope it doesn't create a new dependency group.

I agree with you, this would hopefully get a lot of people off of public assistance. Although hopefully people would work enough hours to make this true. I like how it slowly adjusts to $15 / hr over time instead of all at once.

originally posted by: blondegiraffe
a reply to: Gryphon66

you can still make money hand over fist, even if you are compassionate. common sense says the happier workers you have the less turnover you have, the less training costs, better attendance and schedule adherance. better reputation in the community, so good word of mouth to potential customers.

I agree with you.

Sadly, many of those in power do not.

I have an office that I've managed and been part owner of for 18 years. We pay our employees well and provide great benefits. Our industry has been one of the hardest hit in recent economic hardships, but we, have weathered the storm well thanks to the dedication of my staff.

So, I hear you.

a reply to: rockpaperhammock

Raising the minimum wage to 15 dollars screws over people who had to learn or pay for a particular set of skills.

You're completely incorrect!

Paying $15 an hour as a minimum wage would just force employer's to pay more to keep there skilled workers. Which they can obviously afford and would more than happy to pay, if forced to do so.

The economic ignorance in this thread is thick...

a reply to: Subaeruginosa

You're completely incorrect!

Paying $15 an hour as a minimum wage would just force employer's to pay more to keep there skilled workers. Which they can obviously afford and would more than happy to pay, if forced to do so.

Interesting, what magical world is this?


You actually expect to increase your buying power by giving more money out to the general public and you expect businesses to swallow the cost and not increase prices?

Raising the minimum wage is nothing but political distraction. It hasn't worked in the past and it isn't going to work now. We have raised the minimum wages plenty in the past and yet the trend hasn't changed. The poor and middle-class keep getting poorer while the rich keep getting richer.

Thats because its very likely that when you raise the minimum wage both the middleclass and the poor loose BUYING POWER. Thats because the dollar is devalued and the cost of goods get increased at a higher rate than what the minimum wage is increased by.

originally posted by: Subaeruginosa
Paying $15 an hour as a minimum wage would just force employer's to pay more to keep there skilled workers. Which they can obviously afford and would more than happy to pay, if forced to do so.

The employer does not pay any more, businesses are a pass through.

If costs go up they are always borne by the end user.

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus


It's a little more complicated than that at different commercial levels, don't you think?

Prices will not go up beyond what the market will bear.

Then, amount of profit, other costs, etc. has to be determined and worked through.

You know, business management.

originally posted by: interupt42
We have raised the minimum wages plenty in the past and yet the trend hasn't changed. The poor and middle-class keep getting poorer while the rich keep getting richer.

First, correlation is not causation. Can you show direct links between times in the past when min wage has increased and the general trend of the distribution of wealth in this country?

a reply to: Gryphon66

All it takes is common sense. I posted the following in another minimum wage related post but explains what has happened and is happening.

This is why [its about buying power not quantity]:


$1 for a Gallon of milk today

$10 an hr wage for the middle class employee. [10% of their hourly income]

$6 an hr wage for the minimum employee. [17% of their hourly income]

When a minimum raise occurs those above the minimum wage typically don't get a raise and business raise the prices of their product to reflect the cost increase. On top of it , businesses also take the opportunity to add a little extra since customers don't like it when you raise prices.

After the minimum wage increase:
$2 for a Gallon of milk

$10 an hr wage for the middle class employee. [20% of their hourly income] Lost buying power

$8 an hr wage for the minimum employee. [25% of their hourly income] Lost buying power


I'm not saying something doesn't have to be done but minimum wage has not worked in the past and can't work.

originally posted by: Gryphon66
It's a little more complicated than that at different commercial levels, don't you think?

No, they are identical. When a long term fix cost increases and impacts margin that cost is passed on to the end user. A business that continues to absorb increases without passing them on is unsustainable.

Prices will not go up beyond what the market will bear.

And when they do, that business goes bankrupt taking each associates employment as well.

Then, amount of profit, other costs, etc. has to be determined and worked through.

You know, business management.

I am well aware as I have run my own businesses. I authored a thread on the subject of end user-borne costs and how businesses pass these along.

a reply to: Gryphon66

Prices will not go up beyond what the market will bear.

Thats another flaw in this magical minimum raise fix.

We do not have a free market we have a market controlled by Oligopolies. Comcast has the most disgruntle customers year after year, yet they continue to raise their prices and make record profits. The only way they can stay in business when the majority of their customer base hate them, is because the customers have no choice but to take it.

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: AugustusMasonicus


It's a little more complicated than that at different commercial levels, don't you think?

Prices will not go up beyond what the market will bear.

Then, amount of profit, other costs, etc. has to be determined and worked through.

You know, business management.

Prices will absolutely go up. I work in a very competitive and highly regulated industry. Progressives are constantly pushing more regulations down my industry's throat. Most of the regulations come with increased costs and we absolutely pass every single penny on to the consumer indirectly. The consumer doesn't see an itemized fee necessarily, but prices absolutely go up as a result of the increased cost.

If prices don't go up, cost will be eliminated somewhere else. In most cases, businesses will probably eliminate some employees and experiment with technology to increase productivity of the remaining employees. What is better? 10 employees flipping burgers at $7.25/hr or 5 employees flipping burger at $15/hr?

originally posted by: interupt42
a reply to: Gryphon66

Prices will not go up beyond what the market will bear.

Thats another flaw in this magical minimum raise fix.

We do not have a free market we have a market controlled by Oligopolies. Comcast has the most disgruntle employees year after year, yet they continue to raise their prices and make record profits. The only way they can stay in business when the majority of their customer base hating them is because the customers have no choice but to take it.

Eventually, a new market entrant will turn them on their head. Think how Uber has completely exposed the taxi industry's cronyism. Or how Tesla is changing the auto industries protectionist policies.

Many consumers are now using services other than cable companies... Netflix?

Many of these big companies keep market entrants out by using politicians to pass regulations that make it harder for small upstarts to gain a foothold.

a reply to: interupt42

Interesting, what magical world is this?

lol, its called the exotic land of Australia. It actually exists on the other side of the earth from the united states of America, in a magical land called the 'southern hemisphere'.

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

So, in the businesses you managed, you never had to make adjustments for unforeseen cost increases? You just raised prices until the business went bankrupt?

You're presenting one absolutist side of a complicated subject, in my opinion. The answers aren't always that easy or that straightforward.

Thanks for your answers though!

originally posted by: Edumakated

Eventually, a new market entrant will turn them on their head. Think how Uber has completely exposed the taxi industry's cronyism.

This is a great example. I have ringside seats to Mayor de Blasio's efforts to curtail Uber because one of his main campaign donors was the New York City Taxi and Limousine Commission. Mayor Che had to back down due to numerous constituents contacting his office and voicing their displeasure at not being able to earn money by being part if this needed service.

It shows the left/right paradigm is bulls*** as he is just as beholden to special interest as anyone on the right.