Seattle sees fallout from $15 minimum wage, as other cities follow suit

originally posted by: Vector99
a reply to: In4ormant

The "can't" live below mediocre and have no say, no mouth anywhere.

The "won't" live mediocre at best, and never strive for more.

The issue is what do we set our standard of living at? 2 bedroom house and steak dinners on minimum wage? Your stupid if you expect that. A wage people can afford comfortable living and food better than processed chinese noodles? I don't think that is a lot to ask.

The issue really is the cost of living has increased disproportionate to wages.

Agreed on the COL

originally posted by: Vector99
a reply to: Grimpachi

Said that here

originally posted by: Vector99
So somehow we are seeing the fallout of $15/hour even though the minimum wage isn't CURRENTLY $15/hour?

Yep that sounds about right for Fox journalism.

Not many seemed to notice because it didn't fit the thread agenda *sigh*

My issue wasn't ever the $ but the quote about asking for less hours to stay on assistance.

originally posted by: fshrrex
I goofed in my basic math:
15×40=600
600×4=2400
2400×12=$28800
I goofed and ended up cheating the single moms I was trying to defend. The question remains how you can sh*t all over them and still hold your head so high...alas you are AUGUSTUS MASOCHISTUS. Play you skin flute Nero. And be thankful you weren't raised by a single mother and all the breaks came your way. It must be nice to win the Lottery of birth. All hail numbnuts!!!

Perfect example of when life gives you lemons, you throw them at people; then have nothing.

a reply to: In4ormant

That does seem like an issue.

But, is it an issue?

Just because some FOX affiliate says it is happening?

originally posted by: In4ormant

originally posted by: johnwick

originally posted by: Vector99

originally posted by: notmyrealname

originally posted by: Vector99

originally posted by: notmyrealname

originally posted by: Vector99
Here's a thought, eliminate non-skilled jobs by not ever supporting them. That in turn should force the workforce to become better skilled right?

Here's a business that article referenced. A comic book store. Don't go there.

Here is a thought, with Moore's Law and all, determine how long it is going to take for a computer and a robot to take the "Do you want fries with that?" jobs. Then what/ it is all the evil Toyota Robotics fault that I did not try hard or recognize the fast coming trends that are BLARING on the internet everywhere; nope, I was too busy complaining about all the rich people to pay attention to taking care of my future.

Way to go hero.

So, in essence you support low paying unskilled labor professions, but then say the people that work at them should just do better? I don't get it.

So I get particularly agitated at the palm up crowd when they show themselves…sue me!

I wouldn't call someone willing to work 40 hours a week or more the "palm up crowd"

If there were no unskilled workers there would be no minimum wage. 7 billion people can't be millionaires though, so I ask you what is the solution then?

Work them to an early death, while they suffer the entire time, and never get to rest or do anything but work and sit at home, because they can't afford to do anything.

At least that seems to be the business model at present.

The guy that works 60hrs a week that's trying to get over the hump and succeed is the guy I want my tax money going to. Sign me up. Much rather that joker get it and see him win than the guy you just raised to 15$ an hour and says he wants less work.

Flat out great post.

Most just want to live by their labor .

Some think they live too well.

Thanks brother , you see clearly.

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

Does he now? How wou,d you know this?

a reply to: In4ormant

Well lets remember it is Fox news reporting.... Everyone at the restaurant I manage wants more hours/more shifts. A minimum wage increase won't change that.

originally posted by: Grimpachi
a reply to: In4ormant

That does seem like an issue.

But, is it an issue?

Just because some FOX affiliate says it is happening?

Well,

It's all there is to go on and he did make a post asking for opinions.

a reply to: In4ormant

Fair enough.

Like I said, I will be awaiting independent confirmation on this.

originally posted by: DAVID64
Really didn't know where to put this, so Mods move at your own descretion.

For a while, there was a huge debate on increasing the minimum wage. Many said that $15 an hour would be a "living wage". That the people would be able to lift themselves out of poverty and finally make a decent wage. Well, it looks like that's not workin' out too good. Even though they're making that $15 an hour, many are asking for less hours, so they can stay on assistance programs. It also says that even though they are making $15 an hour, it still didn't lift them far enough to completely rely on their hourly wage. So, what now? Raise it to $17 ? $20 ? Do we just keep upping the wage till fast food workers and service people are making as much as professionals, with years of experience? I know, some will argue that food service is a profession and do deserve what other professions make. But, is the kid that fixed your Big Mac on the same par as the guy who designed the building you work in? Does that kid asking "You want fries with that?" deserve to make as much as You?

www.foxnews.com...

Seattle’s $15 minimum wage law is supposed to lift workers out of poverty and move them off public assistance. But there may be a hitch in the plan.

Evidence is surfacing that some workers are asking their bosses for fewer hours as their wages rise – in a bid to keep overall income down so they don’t lose public subsidies for things like food, child care and rent.

Full Life Care, a home nursing nonprofit, told KIRO-TV in Seattle that several workers want to work less.

“If they cut down their hours to stay on those subsidies because the $15 per hour minimum wage didn’t actually help get them out of poverty, all you’ve done is put a burden on the business and given false hope to a lot of people,” said Jason Rantz, host of the Jason Rantz show on 97.3 KIRO-FM.

The twist is just one apparent side effect of the controversial -- yet trendsetting -- minimum wage law in Seattle, which is being copied in several other cities despite concerns over prices rising and businesses struggling to keep up.

The notion that employees are intentionally working less to preserve their welfare has been a hot topic on talk radio. While the claims are difficult to track, state stats indeed suggest few are moving off welfare programs under the new wage.

Very very disingenuous. I haven't seen "a kid" working fast food for about a decade and the US is expanding its low wage service sector. A large portion of the service sector has nothing to do with fast food and an expanding % of the US population is being pushed into low wage service sector jobs. Well paying or living wage manufacturing/blue collar jobs are far and few between. The post war boom is over. Welcome to the age of neoliberal globalization. The age of consumer/household debt.

The issue isnt about "some kid" working at McDonald's it's an issue that gets to the very fabric of American society. The overflowing prisons, the worsening poverty rates, the fact that the tax payers subsidize low corporate wages, the fact we subsidize low wages in other countries as these "free trade" deals open up the offshoring flood gates.

Do "low skill" service workers "deserve" to make as much as a skilled college graduate? No, but they do deserve a living wage. If you're an adult and working full time you deserve an appartment, transportation funds, healthcare, childcare, food and clothing. You know, survival.

Massive corporations are profiting hand over fist.Housing costs are out of control, transportation costs are out of control, public transit is next to useless in all too many cities, especially suburbs where one almost needs a car. Healthcare costs are still too high. Even the so called "middle class" is living in debt. What's the average Americans debt? $15,000? $20,000?

CEO's are paid way too much. Executives and managment don't exactly deserve $500k to a million a year. Most of them make their money by cutting costs, by slashing wages, laying people off and overworking those who remain. Or they find ways to outsource/offshore. If they're even working on Main St.

America is on the decline and its not because if some $15 an hour minimum wage. It began in the 1970's with the massive off shoring bonanza. Especially as China introduced market reforms on into the 1980's. Then Reagan's neoliberal policies fed the top 1%, wealth extracted from the labor of the majority. Starting with Bill Clinton the Dems latched on to Reagan's neoliberalism.

Even worse is the finanancialization of the economy. People making billions in unproductive ways which add nothing to Main St. They've been leeching wealth from Main St. Like a straw. A vacuum. They drink our milkshake.

What's left for "blue collar" workers? Some
lucky people get jobs at refineries, or union jobs working infrastructure. Construction is under attack- right now large construction firms are lying and saying they can't find American workers. They're signaling the gov to let more South Americans through the border.

Tech firms have been colluding to lower wages. They've been caught multiple times. Not only that but they're legally lobbying the gov to expand the worker visa program. They want to bring in scores of thousands more skilled tech workers from India, China, Japan etc. Because, like construction, they supposedly can't find enough American workers. It has nothing to do with the fact a tech worker from India will make $20,000 less, right?

American labor is under attack. Has been since the 1970's. People are living lives of debt with insecure futures. Offshoring, technological unemoyment, mass immigration (in order to place downward pressure on wages in the service sector). The attacks are coming from all fronts.

This nations promise of independent living has eroded to the same conditions in 18th century Europe when people fled for "The New World". Self sufficiency, for a 100 million + people is a pipe dream. Debt is the new reality. Debt and working till you're 65 years old or dead.

That's not good enough though you see, because they want your social security now. They want to slash Medicare even more. All while trillions go to wars/military. Who's benefiting from these wars? Working people? No. The same massive multinational corporations paying low wages the world over. Accumulating trillions for owners, executives and stock holders.

Hell, even entering the stock market is a sham for working people. Perhaps not for passive investors but most people aren't aware of the fact you don't need to actively invest. That's another thread. It's hard to invest when you don't have any savings anyhow.

What would happen if the US didn't spend trillions on war/military? What if we used that money to, oh, I don't know, fund massive public works projects? The horror! What if tax rates for the top .01% were raised to the level we saw during the post war boom? The horror! Instead of having 700 million dollars they'd only have 400 million. How would they get by?

What if economists weren't so fixated on "free trade" and realized Anerican jobs are being sold off to the lowest bidder? Half of this nations issues arise in economic departments across the country.

a reply to: In4ormant

It's a horrible reference to go on. i linked the site to the comic book store owner that said he will incur $84,000 in additional wage expenses per year. Seriously? $84,000 a year increase for a dollar raise? Well lets be fair, wage tax increase cost to the owner will be 20-30% of that, so lets say an actual 50k of that goes to employees.

50k a year increase at a dollar an hour raise means he schedules FIFTY THOUSAND hours a year. To schedule that much payroll you have to have around 136 hours a day on your payroll.

Simple math tells you something isn't right there.

originally posted by: infolurker

originally posted by: Vector99

originally posted by: infolurker

originally posted by: beezzer
15/hour.

The "Sharknado" of minimum wages.

lolz

We had many people pass up $15 an hour start pay when they were "extending" unemployment.

They actually would say "I make $10 an hour Net on unemployment", After tax I would only make $12 net maybe at that rate working for you. I am not working for $2 an hour!

I don't normally call BS on posts, but this? Really, you had someone on unemployment so knowledged of "gross" and "net" pay they refused your job?

Here's something you can do in the future, get that person's info and report to unemployment you offered them a job. they will lose their unemployment. Shouldn't be hard to get their info IF they actually applied for a job with you, you have the application.

Lying about an issue only creates controversy, not results.

Actually let me ask you directly. If you are receiving an unemployment check for say $400.00 a week for the next year or 18 months, are you going to take a 40 hour a week job that pays less or the same than that?

Since you edited I'll respond to this, unemployment wages ARE indeed taxed. No one clears $400 a week on unemployment.

You also are still entitled to unemployment wages if you take a job making less than your current unemployment rates. At that time it becomes something called underemployment wages, and the former employer(s) pays that difference.

You make it seem as if anyone without a job collects unemployment. You are wrong.

originally posted by: Vector99
a reply to: In4ormant

It's a horrible reference to go on. i linked the site to the comic book store owner that said he will incur $84,000 in additional wage expenses per year. Seriously? $84,000 a year increase for a dollar raise? Well lets be fair, wage tax increase cost to the owner will be 20-30% of that, so lets say an actual 50k of that goes to employees.

50k a year increase at a dollar an hour raise means he schedules FIFTY THOUSAND hours a year. To schedule that much payroll you have to have around 136 hours a day on your payroll.

Simple math tells you something isn't right there.

I read the article. He says he'll need 80k more in SALES to cover the cost. Sales minus his cost of goods etc to cover the extra wages. I think you read it wrong. The math could be right.

www.comixexperience.com...

originally posted by: beezzer
a reply to: infolurker

This was done to make people feel better about themselves. there was no thought put into it. But what do you expect from acedemics in politics?

Or from politicians in economics.

a reply to: notmyrealname

I only need a few seeds to grow my own. I took them from the spoiled fruit you left me. If you got hit by a rotten lemon then you shouldn't sell substandard goods.

a reply to: In4ormant

Even if it's just an 80k a year increase in sales, the numbers don't add up. 13 hours of payroll a day for a comic book store open 10 hours a day. That doesn't sound smart. and 13 hours of payroll break-even offset would be around $17-18 a day in increased sales, IF the only cost incurred was a wage increase.

The numbers simply don't add up, and prices will increase beyond necessary means, because people will say since they have to pay more they should profit more. It's an ugly cycle and I am going to back out of this convo now because of what I think about people that think working people should be happy with what they get, not saying you specifically, just the general mood in this thread.

originally posted by: Sremmos80
a reply to: greencmp

How do we verify that the workers in this one place are asking for less hours to stay on welfare?
Or does it not matter, this guy on the radio said it so it must be true.

God forbid it is because they don't necessarily need those hours now that they are making more and want some free time.

How many people were on Welfare before the increase, how many are on it now? Compare that with trends in the rest of WA state and the US.

"Free market" economics is corporate propaganda and the USA loves its corporate propaganda. That and Jesus. The bible and social Darwinism. A match made in heaven.
Christian free market Darwinism. Is it survival of the fittest or survival of the richest? At least the Pope is coming around. That's probably a bait and switch move. Get people in churches then ask for money. lol

Here's a sad fact, god fearing right wingers can't "teach a man to fish". There's not enough jobs. You want to act like there's actually enough jobs. Living wage jobs at that. Every single American could get a college education and there still wouldn't be enough jobs. You'd see people with the best education possible working at Macy's or installing carpet. Working as waiters and delivery drivers. Some with two part time jobs. Selling shoes, cleaning sludge from septic tanks.

Meritocracy my foot. Is it all just out there for the taking? Most rich people were born into wealth. Generational wealth passed down. Access to either stable/supportive family lives, initial investment capital or funds for good colleges. Survival of the fittest or survival of the richest?

Our current president probably wouldn't be in the White House if he was born to a poor black single mother in some ghetto. Bush wouldn't have been in the White House if not for his father. Wouldn't have owned the Texas Rangers. His father wouldn't have been in the White House if not for his father and his crooked business schemes/political connections. That's how the world actually works. This so called meritocracy. There are facts to back this up.

New money manifests at times and there are in fact self made millionaires. It's not as common as we're led to believe as even the self made "men" usually have acsess to initial investment capital. Buffett was given $15k by a family member in order to get started. Things like that. A lot of middle class people get an upper hand when their parents die and leave them a home/savings. Nothing wrong with that. This next generation probably won't have that situation.

Corporations have squashed the entrepreneur. The upward mobility/meritocracy story is exaggerated. In the tech industry it holds true. Millionaires made overnight via some new app or program. People gambling on Wall St win sometimes. Even that takes capital.

I think the problem isn't so much the lack of a true meritocracy but the fact so many working people can't even survive on a hard days work. It might be easier for many to give up and end up in prison, or join the military. Or commit suicide. 100 Americans commit suicide every day. A couple
million in some jail or prison. Pressure from school, pressure from work, poverty, having no financial future etc.

We aren't in Kansas anymore. The post war boom is over. Neofeudal debt slavery rules the land. TV makes us all feel like everything is OK. Everything is OK in TV land. In the movies, on the radio. On Facebook being micro analyzed for marketing purposes. Milking our ego's. Tracking our every thought. Life is a marketing campaign.

Humanity has been commodified. Like cattle. Or like birds in a cage. Some cages have fancy swings and mirrors for entertainment but its still a cage. You're born, you operate like a profit generating battery and you die. I think that's why the first Matrix film resonated with so many people. A lot of people feel like human batteries plugged into the Matrix. I've felt that way in the past while working 10 hour days 6 days a week. This isn't humanities natural condition. This division of labor. This non stop toil each day. This extreme form of hierarchal civilization. Regimented lives that aren't truly our own. No more sense of community. No more sense of independence or adventure. Just things. More things. Anything to spur on more economic growth and thus profits.

To hell with the forests, oceans and the air. Even the hippies ended up turning into yuppies. Pushed back in to the turnstiles. Back in line. In traffic. At the cubicle. Individualism expressed via commodification. I am my sunglasses, my car, my clothes. My job. What sort of battery are you? A stock broker,doctor..a janitor? Your labor hat defines your personhood. Anything less is lazy, or savagery. Maybe the Big Lebowski was on to something. Not sure how he afforded that lifestyle. It was a movie after all.

The UK is raising the minimum wage tto 9 quid an hour in the next few years.
It is making companies pay a living wage so the tax payer doesn't have to pay for working tax credits and such.

originally posted by: Ultralight
a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

Does he now? How wou,d you know this?

Duh at the secret mason annual boating party/orgy/chicken sacrifice.
The Rothschilds send over a crate of blood erm sorry wine because of masons and such.