Seattle sees fallout from $15 minimum wage, as other cities follow suit

Read piiiiiiiiiiiles of posts in this thread, but there is no individual person to address this to.

Truth is we have to come to terms with the fact that we're automating work using flesh aka people. Eventually we will do this with robots. Eventually the robots will repair themselves when they're broken. When that day comes we have to look back at history ...

We weren't evolved for this. For thousands of years people could have a place to stay, some respect, and food for pitching in where they could doing things that most people can. We've slowly evolved a society where we've created a hated group of people, lets call them burger flippers, who we believe could have done better but they didn't because we're better than them and everyone has a ''choice''.

So the question is, when the robots come do we enslave the intelligent to work for the benefit of the majority or do we need to set fire to everyone in the burger flipping faction since they're taking all our resources and robots replaced their jobs?

We're having the same conversation now except education and automation replaced the respect these people used to be able to achieve. Very few people in America seem to respect the ones that didn't / can't make it. There is a deeper question here than 'something for nothing' I feel and that is what do you do with all of these people?

originally posted by: johnwick
Much like the business owner ignores, rent, food, car payment Insurance gas...... It costs money to stay alive just to get to work so one can work.

Why is that any business owner's responsibility? My job is to make sure my business remains viable, paying everyone else's rent, gas, food, insurance and auto financing is not a factor.

originally posted by: johnwick
It was great until we got undercut by the Mexicans that got half as much as us took all the work.

So you did such a cruddy job that illiterate, uneducated people who spoke little English were able to do as good or better job for half the money?

Either you ran the world's sh***iest business or you are embellishing by a large margin.

originally posted by: fshrrex
The question remains how you can sh*t all over them and still hold your head so high...alas you are AUGUSTUS MASOCHISTUS.

I need someone's broken backs and spirits to place my 110" 4K television on (I forgot to buy a stand). This way I can watch the 99% suffer in crystal clear 4K but without really having to be among them, because, you know, who the hell wants to do that?

Play you skin flute Nero. And be thankful you weren't raised by a single mother...

Nah, I leave the flute playing to the professionals, is your mommy single?

I find it utterly amusing that there's so many business owners in this thread who're conveniently skipping over how much closer to a cakewalk than difficult managing a business really is. I was really hands-on at the hotel I worked at, did a little bit of everything from cleaning to repairing to < GASP > doing things business owners do like going over the books, paying the business bills, reordering supplies, scheduling pro repairs, submitting/conferring on advertising materials (yep, we ran coupon ads in the papers. Not all independent businesses bother) By the end of it, I'd done pretty much everything at any given point short of filing the owners' taxes. I did this for many years, it's not like I shadowed my boss for a day.

It wasn't flipping hard. BORING overall, yes, but hard? Hell no. I found it, mental exertion-wise, comparable to running the front desk. Not that difficult. If I had to take a stab at it & quantify the worth of that work versus any lower wage work? They're about even, IME & IMO.

a reply to: Nyiah

some people, even here on ATS, think that spending money is a skill. You see them in this thread. They know how to spend money better than you. That is a skill. Apparently...

a reply to: Vector99

If that's your perspective on running a business, I'm dying to hear your perspective on "I put the food in the happy meal box" jobs.

a reply to: Shamrock6

It's not quite so complicated. Either one that is.

I'm dying to hear about this woesome issue business owners have of "running the business".

Also, on your ignorant view of food workers, do you really think the food come pre-cooked, hot, and ready just waiting to be wrapped? Why the F% not send it wrapped too then?

Try cooking 100 burgers in an hour and let us know how you do. Do good for one hour? NICE, do it for 6-7 more.

try balancing a p&l once a month...OMG SOOO HARD!!!

A lot of the questions about why this type of government wage fixing cannot work and why people now getting $15 per hour are asking for less hours can be answered by this chart. This is particular to PA, but applies generally to all states.

The boost on minimum wage is way overdue. Everyone uses these jobs at fast food places as examples. I agree someone flipping burgers shouldn't make $15/hr. What needs to be boosted is the wages for all the jobs that require experience and schooling. Its sad that you spend 50-100k on a degree these days, then move out into the field starting at 30 -35k/year. If they want to require a college degree or certifications for a position. Then they need to pay a decent wage for what they want. I don't have any solid answer on what needs to be done, but wages in general have barely increased over the years as the companies sit back and collect record profits. That's the problem with the economy. Trickle down my ass!

originally posted by: Vector99
Try cooking 100 burgers in an hour and let us know how you do. Do good for one hour? NICE, do it for 6-7 more.

You make this sound like it is very cumbersome, it is a semi-automated process where the frozen patties are placed in a double sided gridle which has a automatic timer. All you do is load and remove. Cooking in an actual enviorment where the food is fresh and made to order is more intensive, hence the reason professional chefs make more.

a reply to: Vector99

So you really think McDonald's workers are hand preparing every last thing served? Try looking over the counter on your next visit. A whole lot of not grilling going on back there, isn't there?

Funny that you call me ignorant for not buying into "fast food workers have such a hard job" while crapping all over the idea that a CEO does more than sit behind a desk a couple hours a day.

Meh.

a reply to: Sremmos80

Do you know any bartenders? They're a perfect example of this. They tend to actually make great money, but so much of it goes unreported that they still qualify for subsidized benefits. They also tend to have problems renting or leasing anything, for the same reason. Would they do something else? No, they end up making more money AND not having to pay for benefits! I'm a musician, and have been playing out for 20+ years, so I've met A LOT of bartenders. Each and every one of them has had this same exact outlook. Who could blame them? Make $40k or more AND not have to pay for health insurance, food, or child care? Oh, and still get a tax refund? I hurt my back in the military, so standing for more than an hour is pretty tough, otherwise I'd likely do the same thing!

a reply to: Vector99

You do understand that not every business is run by some CEO on the top floor of some sky-rise, right? Also, what world is this where someone at Burger King is actually flipping a burger? More like grab 20 frozen patties from the freezer, feed the through a machine, and put them in a heated drawer. Yeah, do this several times a day... so what? The hardest part of those jobs is standing up.
But you left out an important part. Wanna know how good someone will do at flipping burgers? I bet with one day's training anyone could do it. How many people can run a company with one day's training? I hope not you. I'd hate for my paycheck to depend on your reasoning abilities.

originally posted by: Sremmos80
a reply to: DAVID64

And at the end of the day we have zero information about what is actually only going on.

We have a talk radio host and some one saying people are asking for less hours.

It might not even be related. Guess you never had to take some time off from work to take care of life.

Enjoy your guys rant about how paying people living wage is horrible.

Sad this all started on such little info lm

I was thinking the same thing. Does this even have anything to do with the people on assistance or is it the teenagers in high school the ones requesting time off? As I said before if your flipping burgers, you don't deserve $15/hr...sorry thats a job for kid trying to establish some experience in the work field, saving for their first car, or just to have some weekend money. If you have kids and bills to pay then blame yourself. Maybe you should have spent more time paying attention in school and bettering yourself.

I just feel the technical jobs and management positions should get a hefty boost in pay. 35 - 50K/year is not middle class wages and in this economy its hard to try and negotiate to what your worth, when a temp agency is just waiting for your position to open up to replace you. It's a sad state of affairs right now imo.

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

Really? Maybe he's a Rothchild?...

a reply to: Pinke

Are you from USA? Ever live here?

Just asking for perspective. If you have not spent a couple decades here, perspectives can be effected. Though I am not totally disagreeing with some of your points.

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

Insurance should be a factor.

a reply to: Nyiah

If you feel so strongly about being a business owner is almost a cakewalk, why aren't you out running a successful business now?

a reply to: amicktd

A single person is not able to live on $50k a year, why?