Russia Warns US, Supplying Arms To Ukraine "Will Have Dramatic Consequences"

originally posted by: ScientificRailgun

originally posted by: crazyewok

originally posted by: ScientificRailgun

The lesson here is Ukraine should not have given up its nukes.

So because Ukraine, in good faith, gave up it's nuclear arsenal and participated in the START treaty, the western world should just leave them twisting in the wind? That's cold, man.

Yes its cold.

No its not fair.

But its a cruel cold unfair world.

As I said if I could click my fingers and send Russia home I would right now.

But right now I see no way we can realistically make that happen.


I can see as making things worse by selling weapons or even worse starting ww3 but it wont help or solve anything.


If you have any ideas on how to solve the situation without triggering world war holy # then im all ears.

One: Withdraw all Russian troops and Armaments from Ukraine, minus Crimea. This would be a compromise on both parts.

Two: With joint NATO and Russian monitors, allow eastern Ukraine to hold a referendum on whether they want to become a semi-autonomous district within Ukraine, much like Crimea before it's annexation. Both sides must agree before-hand to allow at least one NATO and Russian monitor at each polling place, and must abide by the results.

Three: Once the vote has happened and the results are in, The west AND Russia must work together to rebuild the decimated Ukrainian infrastructure and cities. Along with significant humanitarian efforts to A) Help Ukrainians/Russian living in Ukraine rebuild their tattered lives and B) Assist any who wish emigrate from Ukraine with emigrate to their desired nation, be it Russia, or an EU nation.

Four: One all of this is done, Russia, The Ukraine, and the EU/NATO must sign a treaty that no nation shall again infringe on sovereign Ukraine soil. If one does, membership from the UN will be immediately revoked.

Five: USA must stop breaking treaties through backdoor channels and pretending like they actually care about these people.

Six: USA and its Master Corporations should leave Ukraine and EVERYONE ELSE the hell alone and stop making it look like they are necessary to stop the EVIL in the world.

originally posted by: Patriotsrevenge
a reply to: Xcathdra

Putin wants to act like he has a set when in reality the only thing allowing him to lip off are his nukes. I hope the Russian people wake up and remove Putin before he obliterates whats left of Russia.

If Obama was not a corrupt fraud Christian who is really a Muslim traitor and had a set like Reagan or Bush SR. Putin would be crying on his way back to Russia with his football.

Actually Bush jr. was smart enough to let Georgia go when it all went bad, and I will bet Reagan and Bush sr. would have done the same.

I always thought the bunch around Bush jr. were dangerous, but the ones who are now running the show are even worse.

a reply to: Mastronaut

First, nobody in their right mind wants the U.S. and Russia at war!! Peace through strength Ronald Reagan style is what we need not Obama and his apology tour!!

Crimea VOTED do you remember

We all vividly remember the Russians beating the press, women and men who voiced their opinions prior too the ANNEX of Crimea BEFORE the Kangaroo Vote! The whole non Communist world nor the UN recognizes that vote but you do lol. I guess you support the beating of women who were just trying to bring food to their husbands who were locked up in the Ukrainian Navy base as well?

Go watch the Vice news channel on YouTube about Ukraine and you will quickly learn how the Russians have done nothing but lie. You will also witness how the Ukrainians were very civil with the Russian troops until they knew that Russia was trying to take their country for themselves.

You will witness Russian army officers get busted on Camera in Eastern Ukraine dressed up as Ukrainian police giving the police orders to obey or get shot. Right after that the lead reporter for Vice was kidnapped and beat by the head idiot leader in Donbass. The Russians were caught lying about all these so called attacks of innocent civilians by Right Sector before any western backed Ukrainian troops or Right Sector were within 150 miles of any separatist areas " Russian army boys".
They found the vehicles that were destroyed in these so called attacks and the owners said they were stolen from the owners days before. It was obvious to all that the Russian Mafia and so called separatist were killing anyone who voiced out about the Russians being there and then made it look like Right Sector had killed them in these attacks.

People who kill other people like this and then lie so bad about it, do not deserve to share the air that we breathe. They are so dumb they cant even tell a good lie.

a reply to: Patriotsrevenge

Go watch the Vice news channel on YouTube about Ukraine and you will quickly learn how the Russians have done nothing but lie.

Yeah, go watch MSM or you will never find out the truth !

Some people just don`t get it...sigh !

In August 2013, Rupert Murdoch's corporation 21st Century Fox invested $70 million (US) in Vice Media (of which Vice News is a division), resulting in a 5 percent stake.

On August 29, 2014 A&E Networks— a joint venture of Hearst Corporation and The Walt Disney Company, announced it would acquire a 10% minority stake in Vice Media, Vice News' parent company, for $250 million.

Source

originally posted by: ScientificRailgun
I'm starting to begin to understand that there is almost no way to peaceably resolve the Ukraine conflict. Putin refuses to withdraw his troops and arm from Ukraine territory, and the West is refusing to let Putin have his way in Ukraine.

There is a way to solving this crisis but Kiev will have to be more flexible.

One item I am hearing is Kiev can never join NATO. That is most important.

Second item they have to agree to is for DNR/LPR to have their own armed forces with no UAF on their territory. In other words, Federalization on hard terms. Like TWO nations in ONE state.

Third is Ukraine can join the EU but not be part of any military formation that EU develops. Basically Maidan happened because of people wanting to go to EU and work and that "plain vanilla" EU membership is good enough.

Too much blood has spilled from both sides plus 5000 civilians killed....................hence for NAF to agree to withdraw and give up hard earned gains would be outright foolish.

Arms or weapons from US will result in Porky losing Kiev in 7-10 days at most.

originally posted by: BornAgainAlien

originally posted by: Patriotsrevenge
a reply to: Xcathdra

Putin wants to act like he has a set when in reality the only thing allowing him to lip off are his nukes. I hope the Russian people wake up and remove Putin before he obliterates whats left of Russia.

If Obama was not a corrupt fraud Christian who is really a Muslim traitor and had a set like Reagan or Bush SR. Putin would be crying on his way back to Russia with his football.

Actually Bush jr. was smart enough to let Georgia go when it all went bad, and I will bet Reagan and Bush sr. would have done the same.

I always thought the bunch around Bush jr. were dangerous, but the ones who are now running the show are even worse.

Only because of Bushes diplomacy did it not get a lot worse. It was never about Georgia. The U.S. and NATO had a massive Naval Armada exercising in the Atlantic for a week. The Russians seen that it was not scheduled far in advance like every other exercise so Russia moved divisions of troops out of their bases in St.Petersburg and sent them to the Georgian border with everything they had, not to return. Russian intelligence was correct and the huge Naval armada started steaming for the Persian gulf to attack Iran, Putin called it and pushed troops into little Georgia to eventually attack Israel and set up a supply route into Iran.

He knew attacking or threatening to attack Israel would stop that Armada in its tracks and he was right. This is why little Georgia did not completely fall to Russia as Putin and Bush made a very quick deal in the stands of the Olympics.

If it was only about Georgia, Bush would have been very very harsh in his response with U.S. and Israeli service men there.

a reply to: ScientificRailgun

Four: One all of this is done, Russia, The Ukraine, and the EU/NATO must sign a treaty that no nation shall again infringe on sovereign Ukraine soil. If one does, membership from the UN will be immediately revoked.

This is nonsense, no nation will agree to this "against the whole world" scenario. Won't happen.

originally posted by: kitzik
a reply to: BornAgainAlien

The Dutch interviewer was baffled by it and you could hear it on him.

Anne Applebaum

This episode was terrible, simply terrible.
Why this stupid Applebaum is jewish,we have enough reasons for hate without those arrogant murikan kikes.

Greetings from Israel btw.

You expect anyone to believe your an Israeli with those comments? Talk about purely ignorant RACIST remarks. You need to check yourself.

originally posted by: victor7
a reply to: ScientificRailgun

Four: One all of this is done, Russia, The Ukraine, and the EU/NATO must sign a treaty that no nation shall again infringe on sovereign Ukraine soil. If one does, membership from the UN will be immediately revoked.

This is nonsense, no nation will agree to this "against the whole world" scenario. Won't happen.

How is this nonsense? I think it's a very rational deal. Ukraine keeps it's sovereign land and if anyone threatens that sovereignty, they are removed from the UN. That includes Russia AND All western nations. Who wouldn't agree to that unless they want Ukraine for themselves?

a reply to: BornAgainAlien

VICE is MSM? That's a new declaration.

a reply to: BornAgainAlien

And Shane Smith and the other founders still have a 75% majority in the company. But I'm sure the 25% made up of a number of disparate investors have all the control in the company and the work they produce.

a reply to: Patriotsrevenge

You expect anyone to believe your an Israeli with those comments? Talk about purely ignorant RACIST remarks. You need to check yourself.

Greetings from Har Carmel. I also live not far from Har Armageddon, so I really live in a right place if things getting ugly lol.
Well, I didn't knew it is some kind of derogatory word in your american slang, anyway that jewess is not speaking for me.

And defending Bandera offsprings is a much more serious violation, than a stupid words you are censoring.

originally posted by: Patriotsrevenge
a reply to: Mastronaut

First, nobody in their right mind wants the U.S. and Russia at war!! Peace through strength Ronald Reagan style is what we need not Obama and his apology tour!!

Reading what you are saying in previous post I'd say you are completely in favor of backing a useless war just because of your creed. I hope you get paid for spreading those bull#s of fake pacifism, because it's because of the support of people with your mind that USA is gonna trigger a war, because they are the only ones who WANT a war. They have the least to lose, and have all the reason to mantain a conflict in the region.

We all vividly remember the Russians beating the press, women and men who voiced their opinions prior too the ANNEX of Crimea BEFORE the Kangaroo Vote! The whole non Communist world nor the UN recognizes that vote but you do lol. I guess you support the beating of women who were just trying to bring food to their husbands who were locked up in the Ukrainian Navy base as well?

That was a vote, not worse than Afghanistan's vote after your country bombarded the place in search for a bearded guy who wasn't there to kill people that were doing business with your president.
Wheter you recognize it or not, people in Crimea voted. UN is just a name for US, since when UN deliberates against Israel it is vetoed by 2-3 countries and nothing is done. Guess why and guess by who?

Ukraine did vote a president, but it was removed inconstitutionally and replaced with a junta of nazis supported by the secret service of a country who has NOTHING to do with the region.

Go watch the Vice news channel on YouTube about Ukraine and you will quickly learn how the Russians have done nothing but lie. You will also witness how the Ukrainians were very civil with the Russian troops until they knew that Russia was trying to take their country for themselves.

You will witness Russian army officers get busted on Camera in Eastern Ukraine dressed up as Ukrainian police giving the police orders to obey or get shot. Right after that the lead reporter for Vice was kidnapped and beat by the head idiot leader in Donbass. The Russians were caught lying about all these so called attacks of innocent civilians by Right Sector before any western backed Ukrainian troops or Right Sector were within 150 miles of any separatist areas " Russian army boys".
They found the vehicles that were destroyed in these so called attacks and the owners said they were stolen from the owners days before. It was obvious to all that the Russian Mafia and so called separatist were killing anyone who voiced out about the Russians being there and then made it look like Right Sector had killed them in these attacks.

Go watch how the new regime has been supported by CIA then. If you believe that videos on youtube can be used as proof in an international court then I think there is more evidence that this was a planned CIA/whateverother3letteragency coup.

People who kill other people like this and then lie so bad about it, do not deserve to share the air that we breathe. They are so dumb they cant even tell a good lie.

This is so hypocritical it doesn't even need a reply.

I'm very scared of people like you. You are the perfect tool for TPTB so I really hope you are a paid shill and not a dumb supporter, because at least there is a rational reason for the propaganda you are spitting.
It's because the USA actions and people with your mindset that Putin gained so much favour in the west. You still talk about Communist, maybe you are very old and forgot that they don't exist anymore, Putin is much more like your idols of reagan and bush.

This is a lose-lose situation for Europe, Russia, Ukraine and in general the world. It's bad even for american people and may even be far worse for your country administration. But you aren't run by people, you are run by corporations, and they decided we all can suck it up because them and the banksters are the only one gaining anything in this madness.

a reply to: victor7

Nobody will go for that. It is sovereign Ukrainian territory, nobody accepts Putin's Russian speaking population crap and they all know who is there doing the real fighting and none of them are from Ukraine. Russia does not have any business telling them what they can and can not do.

The Ukrainian people want nothing to do with Russia and that is the whole point, they are sick of Russia bossing them around.

I can see them not being allowed to Join NATO but they have been a participant with NATO for many years. One Ukraine or no Ukraine, Crimea needs to be given back but we know Putin wont agree to that. The EU and U.S. needs to call his bluff and make sure Crimea is given back to Ukraine even in a bad deal for Ukraine and watch how fast Putin does not agree to it.

originally posted by: Rosinitiate

originally posted by: ScientificRailgun
a reply to: crazyewok

Just to be clear, it was Russia that first "Poked it's nose in Ukraine's business" by annexing Crimea and supplying troops and arms to East Ukraine.

Your revisionism is very clear. Noted.

Pretty sure the coup had a lot to do with it. And of course those who planned, conspired and killed to make it so. Then Russia annexed Crimea. Then civil (proxy) war. Then downed passenger jet and a lot of finger pointing. More civil (proxy) war. Obama says "we're danger". I say "Grave danger?" To wit he responds, "is there any other kind?"

Planned/Conspired Coup - Unsubstantiated, zerio evidence to prove this
Russia Annexed Crimea - Yup, that happened
Civil (Proxy) War - Civil war? Yep. Proxy war? Not until the U.S. starts arming Ukraine.
Obama says "Grave Concern level off charts" - Yup, Russia being aggressive is certainly a danger. The whole world would be concerned if the U.S. Suddenly Annexed Baja California and invaded Mexico, too.

Don't exactly see how I'm revisionist.

a reply to: ScientificRailgun

In the real world of crony politics and strategic foresights, your logic is good only for being spoken once.........after that no one would even want to listen to it.

originally posted by: victor7
a reply to: ScientificRailgun

In the real world of crony politics and strategic foresights, your logic is good only for being spoken once.........after that no one would even want to listen to it.

Then the problem would lie with the politicians, not my proposal.

a reply to: ScientificRailgun

Your proposal does nothing to address the problems incurred with the USA and corporate involvement.

How does Russia backing down help the world or anyone else.

How does ignoring that a good many more things are taking place here than your so-called Russian Invasion ??

I guarantee no one in Europe sees things this way, the politicians don't even.

a reply to: Xcalibur254

And you don`t think that ones providing the funding to go big don`t have a say in things?