Russia Warns US, Supplying Arms To Ukraine "Will Have Dramatic Consequences"

originally posted by: ScientificRailgun

originally posted by: crazyewok

originally posted by: ScientificRailgun

originally posted by: crazyewok

originally posted by: ScientificRailgun
a reply to: crazyewok

Nobody thought Germany was well equipped enough to do the damage it did in WWII. They had just begun recovering from a horrible depression, much worse than what Russia is going through right now.

You have to see the bigger picture. It's not just Russia, but China, North Korea, and other states sympathetic to Russia that could be united to become a new Axis power that threatens the entire world.

Hitler did not have 10,000 nukes.

If he had he could have kept Europe.

So are you suggesting we just let Russia roll all over Europe and take what it wants just because it has nuclear weapons?

No

Cause Britain and France Also have nuclear weapons.

So Russia wont be rolling over EU NATO lands for the same reason we shouldn't be rolling other Russian land.
That Reason MAD.


The lesson here is Ukraine should not have given up its nukes.

So because Ukraine, in good faith, gave up it's nuclear arsenal and participated in the START treaty, the western world should just leave them twisting in the wind? That's cold, man.

I don't know if he's actually advocating "letting them twist in the wind" but he's making a very valid point about Ukraine's vulnerability.

originally posted by: Answer

originally posted by: ScientificRailgun

originally posted by: crazyewok

originally posted by: ScientificRailgun

originally posted by: crazyewok

originally posted by: ScientificRailgun
a reply to: crazyewok

Nobody thought Germany was well equipped enough to do the damage it did in WWII. They had just begun recovering from a horrible depression, much worse than what Russia is going through right now.

You have to see the bigger picture. It's not just Russia, but China, North Korea, and other states sympathetic to Russia that could be united to become a new Axis power that threatens the entire world.

Hitler did not have 10,000 nukes.

If he had he could have kept Europe.

So are you suggesting we just let Russia roll all over Europe and take what it wants just because it has nuclear weapons?

No

Cause Britain and France Also have nuclear weapons.

So Russia wont be rolling over EU NATO lands for the same reason we shouldn't be rolling other Russian land.
That Reason MAD.


The lesson here is Ukraine should not have given up its nukes.

So because Ukraine, in good faith, gave up it's nuclear arsenal and participated in the START treaty, the western world should just leave them twisting in the wind? That's cold, man.

I don't know if he's actually advocating "letting them twist in the wind" but he's making a very valid point about Ukraine's vulnerability.

I agree with Ukraine's vulnerability, and if they still had nuclear arms there wouldn't be a single Russian soldier in Eastern Ukraine. But I feel very strange in letting a nation that willingly gave up it's nuclear program go under the heel of a neighboring nuclear armed nation simply because they let their arsenal go.

originally posted by: ScientificRailgun

The lesson here is Ukraine should not have given up its nukes.So because Ukraine, in good faith, gave up it's nuclear arsenal and participated in the START treaty, the western world should just leave them twisting in the wind? That's cold, man.

Yes its cold.

No its not fair.

But its a cruel cold unfair world.


As I said if I could click my fingers and send Russia home I would right now.

But right now I see no way we can realistically make that happen.


I can see as making things worse by selling weapons or even worse starting ww3 but it wont help or solve anything.


If you have any ideas on how to solve the situation without triggering world war holy # then im all ears.

I had to do something else and was away for short period.

I heard some Russian official somewhere (I forgot where and who it was exactly (but I did not forget what was said)) say the following a couple of days ago...

"We warned you what would happen in `07 (he might have made a mistake because allegedly Putin warned also early `08) and now look what has happened now?"

- Russian can`t back down because of Syria and Iran, it would make lose their face before the World so they won`t back down !

- US will supply weapons if the peace talks fails, which they most likely will !

- This warning gives away that Russia openly goes and attack Ukraine when that happens, probably with airstrikes and there`s a good change with an invasion !

- Only question probably which still remains will be, what is US going to do, nothing and look weak, or are they going attack the Russians in the Ukraine ?...attacking Russia in Russia itself will be responded with tactical nukes at NATO basis in the Baltic States and other Eastern European and NATO countries...and when that happens, Russia could send them at the same time to the Western World because it thinks Russia will get nuked anyway.

originally posted by: crazyewok

originally posted by: ScientificRailgun

The lesson here is Ukraine should not have given up its nukes.

So because Ukraine, in good faith, gave up it's nuclear arsenal and participated in the START treaty, the western world should just leave them twisting in the wind? That's cold, man.

Yes its cold.

No its not fair.

But its a cruel cold unfair world.

As I said if I could click my fingers and send Russia home I would right now.

But right now I see no way we can realistically make that happen.


I can see as making things worse by selling weapons or even worse starting ww3 but it wont help or solve anything.


If you have any ideas on how to solve the situation without triggering world war holy # then im all ears.

One: Withdraw all Russian troops and Armaments from Ukraine, minus Crimea. This would be a compromise on both parts.

Two: With joint NATO and Russian monitors, allow eastern Ukraine to hold a referendum on whether they want to become a semi-autonomous district within Ukraine, much like Crimea before it's annexation. Both sides must agree before-hand to allow at least one NATO and Russian monitor at each polling place, and must abide by the results.

Three: Once the vote has happened and the results are in, The west AND Russia must work together to rebuild the decimated Ukrainian infrastructure and cities. Along with significant humanitarian efforts to A) Help Ukrainians/Russian living in Ukraine rebuild their tattered lives and B) Assist any who wish emigrate from Ukraine with emigrate to their desired nation, be it Russia, or an EU nation.

Four: One all of this is done, Russia, The Ukraine, and the EU/NATO must sign a treaty that no nation shall again infringe on sovereign Ukraine soil. If one does, membership from the UN will be immediately revoked.

a reply to: ScientificRailgun

One: Withdraw all Russian troops and Armaments from Ukraine, minus Crimea. This would be a compromise on both parts.

Two: With joint NATO and Russian monitors, allow eastern Ukraine to hold a referendum on whether they want to become a semi-autonomous district within Ukraine, much like Crimea before it's annexation. Both sides must agree before-hand to allow at least one NATO and Russian monitor at each polling place, and must abide by the results.

Three: Once the vote has happened and the results are in, The west AND Russia must work together to rebuild the decimated Ukrainian infrastructure and cities. Along with significant humanitarian efforts to A) Help Ukrainians/Russian living in Ukraine rebuild their tattered lives and B) Assist any who wish emigrate from Ukraine with emigrate to their desired nation, be it Russia, or an EU nation.

Four: One all of this is done, Russia, The Ukraine, and the EU/NATO must sign a treaty that no nation shall again infringe on sovereign Ukraine soil. If one does, membership from the UN will be immediately revoked.

I think this with addition that Ukraine will not join NATO would be acceptable to Russia, EU they can join if Germany thinking Greece is not enough lol. Russia would even pay some reparations for Crimea, like perpetual lease for 100 years with option for another elections or something like this.

But, as we all know USA is not going according to this plan but treating Russia like Iraq.
This arrogance, especially coming from some Kenyan Indonesian ( and you know Russians ARE racists ) what is driving the stubbornness. Yes, I actually thinking that it is Obamer lecturing tone and his color that also adding the spice.

Giving weapons to The Ukrainians will only give us more Dead Ukrainians.. Drop a UN force in .Create buffer zone. Stop the shelling and murder of civilians.. and let the people vote. They need a timeout. Both sides will continue to push until separated.

Send food not ammo.

originally posted by: kitzik
a reply to: ScientificRailgun

One: Withdraw all Russian troops and Armaments from Ukraine, minus Crimea. This would be a compromise on both parts.

Two: With joint NATO and Russian monitors, allow eastern Ukraine to hold a referendum on whether they want to become a semi-autonomous district within Ukraine, much like Crimea before it's annexation. Both sides must agree before-hand to allow at least one NATO and Russian monitor at each polling place, and must abide by the results.

Three: Once the vote has happened and the results are in, The west AND Russia must work together to rebuild the decimated Ukrainian infrastructure and cities. Along with significant humanitarian efforts to A) Help Ukrainians/Russian living in Ukraine rebuild their tattered lives and B) Assist any who wish emigrate from Ukraine with emigrate to their desired nation, be it Russia, or an EU nation.

Four: One all of this is done, Russia, The Ukraine, and the EU/NATO must sign a treaty that no nation shall again infringe on sovereign Ukraine soil. If one does, membership from the UN will be immediately revoked.

I think this with addition that Ukraine will not join NATO would be acceptable to Russia, EU they can join if Germany thinking Greece is not enough lol. Russia would even pay some reparations for Crimea, like perpetual lease for 100 years with option for another elections or something like this.

But, as we all know USA is not going according to this plan but treating Russia like Iraq.
This arrogance, especially coming from some Kenyan Indonesian ( and you know Russians ARE racists ) what is driving the stubbornness. Yes, I actually thinking that it is Obamer lecturing tone and his color that also adding the spice.

I honestly do think the U.S./EU/NATO nor Russia would accept a proposal like this. They are too muddied in their own political power games and are too far in. Any concession by either side would be seen as weakness and we can't have that now can we?

a reply to: BornAgainAlien

Imagine if Russia was backing and funding Mexico so they could reclaim Texas........Imagine the reaction. Personally I think both sides of this fight are itching for war. Heck the leaders might even be united in pushing for it. The industrial military complex.......True evil. We have to have endless wars now because if the wars stop the economy fails.

originally posted by: crazyewok

originally posted by: stirling

originally posted by: crazyewok
Honestly why is the US pocking its grubby noses in Ukraine?

Why cant the US just piss of and leave Ukraine to war on its own. The last thing a civil war needs anyway is MORE GUNS!.

Why does the US always feel the need to make things worse?



Anyway there are bigger threats the west is facing at the moments threats unlike Ukraine that are are actually threatening direct national security. Ie ISIS. concentrate on them FFS.

The threat from the Invasion of Ukraine is the biggest threat the free world faces right now Wok....ISIS ? ..meh

Violence in Ukraine is isolated to Ukraine. Putin or east Ukraine wont dare go further in NATO lands like poland as UK/France/Germany alone would kick Russia back across the border in hours.

Russia= Armed forces based around 1980's tec and bits of 90's tec thrown in manned with poorly trained conscripts.

UK/France/Germany= Well trained troops renown throughout the world with 21st century equipment.

And then lets add USA armed forces into that mix, armed forces that dwarf the UK/French and German forces combined with even better tec.......

Yeah russia could NEVER win a offensive war and Putin knows.


Now ISIS are spreading and monsters affiliated conducting attacks in Europe and as fare as Australia.
So yeah I see them as a bigger threat.

I agree with everything bit your understanding of their technology, science, and training. I competed in Russia for judo and sambo and can tell you first hand Russians are no joke. Their training hand to hand is prob the best in the world and brutal. Their computer and IT sector is very advanced. Its a total misconception they are not well trained or equipped. Russia has a devastating force and lets hope it never comes down to all out war. It will not be quick or easy and the Russians themselves as a society can take the perils of war both historically and modernly better than nearly anyone else. Where as in the west we are used to lots of comfort and a draft will not produce good soldiers for quite a while. Especially in the US. What would we get a hipster army.

I agree with not getting involved or that Putin won't move past the Ukraine but a real war probably isn't winnable for anyone. Russia possess some of the most high tech bombs and missiles in the world as do the other side. It would be horrendous.

originally posted by: crazyewok

originally posted by: ScientificRailgun

originally posted by: crazyewok

originally posted by: ScientificRailgun
a reply to: crazyewok

Nobody thought Germany was well equipped enough to do the damage it did in WWII. They had just begun recovering from a horrible depression, much worse than what Russia is going through right now.

You have to see the bigger picture. It's not just Russia, but China, North Korea, and other states sympathetic to Russia that could be united to become a new Axis power that threatens the entire world.

Hitler did not have 10,000 nukes.

If he had he could have kept Europe.

So are you suggesting we just let Russia roll all over Europe and take what it wants just because it has nuclear weapons?

No

Cause Britain and France Also have nuclear weapons.

So Russia wont be rolling over EU NATO lands for the same reason we shouldn't be rolling other Russian land.
That Reason MAD.


The lesson here is Ukraine should not have given up its nukes.

So how ahard would it be to rearm themselves? A few "Janet flights" should do the trick.....you see what YOU just said?


kinda about faced no?

Im surprised that no one has threatened to sink a missle into chernobyl yet, or is that threat yet to come?, that would the be the mother of all dirty bombs.
B. V. H
a reply to: stirling

a reply to: BornAgainAlien

I guess the US forced Russia to invade Ukraine? The Russian anger needs to be directed at Putin, the one who got them into this mess, and Putin needs to pull his head out of the sand and get out of Ukraine. Let's put it into perspective!

a reply to: rickymouse

You've got it backwards. Russia is the one provoking. What the hell were they thinking anyway, going into Ukraine?

Aparently no one thought this whole scenario out past the first or second act......that much is plain as the egg on our face......
The Ukrainians deserve the protections and guarantees they paid for with their nuclear deterrent which they gave up......
A deal is a deal, and this whole scenario seems to me at least to have always been the plan at signing of Budapest treaty....
Im beginning to believe that Both Russia and the US/UK are actually taking orders from the same outside sources.....
That none of this is coincidence and that limited wars (or one big one maybe) are the future of the planet for some time to come.....

originally posted by: billyvonhelvete
Im surprised that no one has threatened to sink a missle into chernoble yet, or is that threat yet to come?, that would the be the mother of all dirty bombs.
B. V. H
a reply to: stirling

Anyone that threatens or actually goes through with destroying the Chernobyl NPP, or ANY other Slavic/EU Nuclear power station would have the rest of the civilized world collectively turning the nation responsible into a salted desert.

originally posted by: AreUKiddingMe
a reply to: BornAgainAlien

I guess the US forced Russia to invade Ukraine? The Russian anger needs to be directed at Putin, the one who got them into this mess, and Putin needs to pull his head out of the sand and get out of Ukraine. Let's put it into perspective!

I agree, however any Russian who bucks Putin gets a big dirt nap. Anyone who has a issue with Obama is a terrorist. We as a planet seem to go through political cycles like this from time to time. Wars and conflict result and i believe we haven't seen the end of these "Proxy Wars" from the current world leaders we have today..

Many opposing sides, far to stubborn to give in and these men all lack adult supervision..

And rightly so!!, i need to edit my post, from chernoble to chernobyl!!.
All the best.
B. V. H a reply to: ScientificRailgun

a reply to: ufoorbhunter

They are trying to get Putin to drop his interest in helping defend Syria in exchange for keeping Ukraine.

It wont work cause Putin knows the game the west likes to play, he is holding his cards close to his chest. Something will end up causing the bear to invade Israel soon. Putin may just try to take the ultimate prize when everyone thinks he will go for Ukraine.