'Fix Society': Transgender Teen Posted Plea Before Suicide

a reply to: 8675309jenny

We all make mistakes, but asking your child to wait to become an adult before making drastic alterations to their own body is pretty damn sensible parenting to me!

Refusing to accept your children for who they are has some pretty serious consequences in many cases. The problem with forcing her to wait until she is an adult, is that the surgery and hormone treatment will not be as effective those many years down the road. The best time from a biological standpoint is before or during puberty because every drop of testosterone the testes produces does irreparable damage.

A woman in her 30s taking male hormones would experience the same thing, slowly changing over to male physiology.This change includes the voice, appearance of the skin, bone structure, body frame, hair growth and a few other things.

If the girl is going to have the surgery regardless she would have been better off to do as soon as possible. Knowing this would have added to her frustration. Just because society has deemed a set amount of time as "adulthood" doesn't mean a decision made at 13 or 16 or 18 is going to be any different. Some things are set in stone. And another lesson taught by it would be living with the decisions you make, had they regretted it, they would have to accept their own choices, and continue with life. Part of becoming an adult.

You can't be one unless given the opportunity though.

a reply to: boncho

I am not speaking for anyone else when I say this, just reflecting on myself personally, I think I knew maybe 10% of what I now know about myself and the world when I was 17. I am amazed, embarrassed, and ashamed at how ignorant and naive I was. This situation, is very complex. I however do only think to humans there exists; problems and solutions. The only law being, suffer the consequence of your actions. Is the solution for a problem always does what physically benefits the most amount of people? Well that is a tough and risky road to go down depending on how you define terms. Is it possible that a percentage of transgendered people are confused, perhaps regret their decision later? I am sure, as I am sure there is a large percentage of non transgendered people that are confused and regret their decisions. I personally do think much of the nature of male, but mainly female, is entirely abstract construction of culture and "tradition" which is nothing more than an extended sampling of culture over time. For instance, I do not think there is anything biological about wearing make up and dresses, I personally think there is very little difference between male and female, I think pretty much only he bio differences, and I think they are very close to existentially meaningful, of course generally and on average there are the difference of strength, and the feeling of strength is directly related to confidence, I believe the intellect, the conscious energy, the voice in the head, the youness of everyone is genderless, but is forced to exist in its material context, which is as the master of a female or male body. I do think females experience the harsher existence, do to menstruation and the burden of pregnancy. I do believe the recent cultural distinction of females being mindless sex objects, an aesthetically pleasing object to desire to posses and utilize with the male strength, is partly due to...a lot of things... but mainly perhaps the nature of man being evolutionary convinced not to be gay (to insure reproduction, to gung holy not be gay, but the opposite, very female desiring, meaning very good chances of producing offspring) produced the effect of a man not wanting a female to resemble man. So literally, the modern abstract cultural entity that is the female in make up and dress and acting passive and submissive to man, the type of female that most transgender males think is an ideal they cannot achieve in their maledom, is the genderless intelligence, in a gendered body, competing with the others, to distance their appearance as far as possible from the appearance of male strength, because the strong, successful male, is the equivalent in desirable possession to the pretty, 'girly', female, which that strong successful male desires. So you see the system is top down on designed on what the strong successful man desires as an intimate companion, which is not a human that reminds him of a man.

The nature of reproduction, of gender, of other humanely desire, of intimacy, is a cosmic odd one, adding to the brilliance, is that it is necessary.

originally posted by: Jamie1
You're disempowering transgender people if you teach them that other people need to act a certain way in order for them to be happy.

....what? is anybody teaching transgender people anything here?

It's the belief like yours, that other people's reactions cause the problem, that will forever cement the problem in place.

Other peoples reaction to you can be incredibly distressing, even more so if its constant and occurring wherever and whenever they encounter other people. If you don't think this happens to a lot (if not all) transgender folk then you're fairly ignorant of this whole issue. Playing it off as a non-factor and indeed a problem solely with the transgender community is detrimental to this whole issue and typical of the problems society has with transgender people.

Why? Because you have no control over how other people act, and worse, it turns your focus on other people's actions instead of your own.

It's simple. Blame vs. personal responsibility.

Which do you think it better? Blaming somebody for how you feel, or taking responsibility for your own feelings?

Then you've obviously never experienced any kind of ostracization at the hands of people in your community. This is incredibly ignorant.

originally posted by: galadofwarthethird
a reply to: MALBOSIA
Ya what personal need did any of this take from you? I mean how is a kid who was born a guy and thinks they are a girl effect you or any off us? How is that in any way or form bending any of your personal needs? You would not even have meet this kid even if she grew up and lived on, nor is it likely that any of us here on this whole site would have met her as well.

So explain why is it that I should give a # about your needs to keep this kid or other kids who think or wish to be be transgender from doing what they want if they truly and seriously believe it, even if there misguided and change there mind latter? How is that any of our business or will effect us in any possible way? Please do explain.

The way I see it. Its more drama, making a mountain out of molehill, and people have died for stupider reasons which they believed in. So if and if she was right or wrong, is really not even the question. And really would not have effected any of us in the slightest.

Obviously what you say is illogical.

If everyone did what was personally important to them, that would be the definition of chaos and anarchy.

Why should we keep teenagers from doing what they "truly and seriously" believe? Gee I don't know, maybe because they are teenagers? Why don't we let 14 yr olds have sex with 40 year olds if that is "truly and seriously" what they want? Gee I don't know, maybe because they are not fully developed or experienced enough to make those decisions.

Teenagers for the most part are stupid. The smart ones would never imagine such a ridiculous suggestion.

Liberals...

a reply to: Soloprotocol

I feel bad for this teen going through a crisis of identity, but I feel worse for the truck driver that hit them.

No one mentions the fact that this truck driver has to live with the pain of having ended the life of another human being, even worse, a child.

I think it was very selfish of this youngster for making someone else go through this pain.

originally posted by: Jamie1

Or... you're overlooking one option.

No I did mention the right everyone has to act and behave like a ****.

He could state his world view, from a place of love and compassion if he chooses, that, "No, I am not going to accommodate your request. Please respect how I feel as much as you would like to be respected for how you feel."

If you actually think that acting like that is 'from a place of love and compassion' then I'm not sure this discussion will ever get anywhere.....pretty scary tbh...

There are more than the two choices of complying with demands to change or walking away. Saying "no" to somebody is a perfectly valid response if that's how how a person feels.

Validity has nothing to do with it, its about making the place a better place to live in. Refusing to accept someone for who they are and insisting they are how you want them to be, doesn't do this......but like I said, everyone has the right to be a ****.

Back to teenagers and raising kids. Sometimes just saying an unemotional "no" is all that's needed. No drama is required.

"hey dad, I'm gay"

"no"....

a reply to: boncho

I understand what you are saying, and I don't necessarily disagree with it. But let's play "what if" for a moment. What if this individual really was going through a phase? The changes you are advocating can also cause irreparable harm.

Going through gender reorientation is a permanent thing. There have been cases of people going through the procedure and regretting their choice down the road.

Waiting until you are an adult and your brain is fully developed is not an undo burden when making such permanent life changing choice. It's not like you are deciding to change careers, you are changing your physical identity for life.

The parents should have gone to therapists that would understand better what this teenager was going through, but I don't believe that they were wrong in making the youngster wait until they could legally make the decision for themselves.

a reply to: snarky412

I hate seeing discussions like this on here, because there's always so many people claiming they know better, when they have no freakin' clue.

People are actually claiming that she should have just dealt with it, that she should have just been happy the way she was, that these were all choices... tell me oh wise ones, when did you learn to "deal" with your own gender issues? Oh wait, you didn't have to, and you have absolutely no experience of the torment and turmoil these young people have to go through.

And, lets not just ignore or gloss over the fact that her own religiously nutty parents were at least partially responsible for her death. If they hadn't been so intolerant, ignorant, selfish and brutal in their behaviour she would probably be alive now, and happy. There are plenty of transgender people who live happy and fulfilling lives after transition, and this would have been entirely possible for her if she had had decent parents who actually gave more of a cr*p about their own child than their cult of choice.

The fact that they are now giving interviews about this, and that the mother is sticking to her Bible bashing ways even in talking about the death of her own child, shows that these parents were and are incapable of being decent Human beings.

a reply to: BomSquad

The problem is not that she was going through a phase and that she could have made choices that were irreversible - you cannot have gender reassignment until you are legally an adult, and have gone through a strict process of therapy - the problem was that her own parents were abusive, controlling, religious, irrational, and would have rather seen their child suffer than be accepting.

This is about the ignorance of the parents, not about preventing a child from making a bad decision that she would not have been able to even start making until she was legally an adult. She knew that she was not going to be able to start the process properly until she was an adult, she just wanted her parents to accept their child for who she was, and they were too religious insane and ignorant to be able to put their own child first.

There IS a problem with society, and its not the 'unaccepting'. Its everyone that wants to 'be accepted'. There is a mental illness that's spreading like wild fire. Every one thinks I have to be OK with who or what you identify as, and the truth is, I don't. I don't give a damn if you are gay, trans whatever, black or yellow. You have ZERO impact on my life, so quit shoving your equality down my throat. That makes me hate you. Whining about how unfair you have it makes me hate you.

You were born with a penis, you are a guy. No amount of positive wishful thinking or changing society will give you boobs and a vagina. Get a job, and get a sex change if it means that much to you. BUT that crap is WEIRD, so if I give you a look walking down the street because you have boobs and a 5o clock shadow, deal with it, because its unnatural, and that crap makes people stare with weird looks.

As long as I don't throw rocks at you or harm you in anyway, there is literally nothing you can do to me. It's just as bad as the Jehova's Witnesses knocking on your door trying to convert you. And whats worse, there are those who want to be so morally superior that they will side with ANYONE who acts like a victim. SHUT UP.

I am white spanish mix. No amount of wanting to be something different will change that. Society does need to get fixed, and it needs to start with all these wussies manning the hell up and learn how to DEAL WITH IT.

originally posted by: SlyGuy
There IS a problem with society, and its not the 'unaccepting'. Its everyone that wants to 'be accepted'. There is a mental illness that's spreading like wild fire. Every one thinks I have to be OK with who or what you identify as, and the truth is, I don't. I don't give a damn if you are gay, trans whatever, black or yellow. You have ZERO impact on my life, so quit shoving your equality down my throat. That makes me hate you. Whining about how unfair you have it makes me hate you.

You were born with a penis, you are a guy. No amount of positive wishful thinking or changing society will give you boobs and a vagina. Get a job, and get a sex change if it means that much to you. BUT that crap is WEIRD, so if I give you a look walking down the street because you have boobs and a 5o clock shadow, deal with it, because its unnatural, and that crap makes people stare with weird looks.

As long as I don't throw rocks at you or harm you in anyway, there is literally nothing you can do to me. It's just as bad as the Jehova's Witnesses knocking on your door trying to convert you. And whats worse, there are those who want to be so morally superior that they will side with ANYONE who acts like a victim. SHUT UP.

I am white spanish mix. No amount of wanting to be something different will change that. Society does need to get fixed, and it needs to start with all these wussies manning the hell up and learn how to DEAL WITH IT.

Yep just DEAL WITH IT!.....bottle it up inside, seems to have worked here......

a reply to: Annee

Not the only thing in OUR food supply that damages the hormone balance. Soy is just ONE of them. Take a look at the long list of chemistry that doesn't belong in our body, but stupid humans eat it anyway and wonder why they feel strange.

originally posted by: Prezbo369

originally posted by: Jamie1
You're disempowering transgender people if you teach them that other people need to act a certain way in order for them to be happy.

....what? is anybody teaching transgender people anything here?

It's the belief like yours, that other people's reactions cause the problem, that will forever cement the problem in place.

Other peoples reaction to you can be incredibly distressing, even more so if its constant and occurring wherever and whenever they encounter other people. If you don't think this happens to a lot (if not all) transgender folk then you're fairly ignorant of this whole issue. Playing it off as a non-factor and indeed a problem solely with the transgender community is detrimental to this whole issue and typical of the problems society has with transgender people.

Why? Because you have no control over how other people act, and worse, it turns your focus on other people's actions instead of your own.

It's simple. Blame vs. personal responsibility.

Which do you think it better? Blaming somebody for how you feel, or taking responsibility for your own feelings?

Then you've obviously never experienced any kind of ostracization at the hands of people in your community. This is incredibly ignorant.

The points you've raised are EXACTLY why it's important to teach kids they can be happy no matter what other people say or do.

What's the alternative?

Teaching kids that must be unhappy based on what other people say or do? Teach them to have a set of rules that says, "If a person says ABC I can be happy, but if they say XYZ I must be unhappy?"

originally posted by: Rocker2013
a reply to: BomSquad

The problem is not that she was going through a phase and that she could have made choices that were irreversible - you cannot have gender reassignment until you are legally an adult, and have gone through a strict process of therapy - the problem was that her own parents were abusive, controlling, religious, irrational, and would have rather seen their child suffer than be accepting.

This is about the ignorance of the parents, not about preventing a child from making a bad decision that she would not have been able to even start making until she was legally an adult. She knew that she was not going to be able to start the process properly until she was an adult, she just wanted her parents to accept their child for who she was, and they were too religious insane and ignorant to be able to put their own child first.

I have a different perception.

A parent's role is not to accept every behavior a child wants to express. That's plain stupid.

Being unconditionally loving does not mean allowing a child to do anything they want.

The parents in this case had their own perception of what was best for their child. Because Leelah made the decision to walk in front of a truck does not mean that she wouldn't have walked in front of the truck no matter what her parents did.

Have you ever worked with families affected by suicide? Or suicidal people? Nobody is required to kill themselves because their parents don't love them, or treat them badly.

originally posted by: Jamie1

Did you read the suicide note?

Leelah believed she would never have enough friends, or never have enough love.

How can you say that she wouldn't have still killed herself no matter what her parents did?

You just described how suicide can devastate those close to the person who died, and then you perpetuate a false belief that the survivors are the ones who are to blame.

Leelah is dead because she decided to walk in front of a truck. That's a fact.

Everything else is speculation. A story. "Would of's" and "Could of's" are nothing more than mental masturbation.

How can we help other people going forward? By being loving and compassionate to everybody, unconditionally.

Blame is always a story. When you're loving somebody, you can't be judging them or blaming them.

I did read it.

I beilieve the family are the victims, but also to blame.
The parents could have prevented this.
The girl didn't feel loved. Her parents could have supported her, and they may well have if the kid didn't choose to murder herself.

There was a way out for her.

Both she and her parents failed and we now have a dead kid and devastated guilt ridden parents.

It is not fair.

Call it speculation, but those are the facts.
No good comes from self-murder and it does nothing but promote the idea for other transgenders fighting similar identity crisisies of their own.

Again, selfish.

My opinion and we can agree to disagree..

But I think we both can agree that her death was a bad thing.

edit on 3-1-2015 by defuntion because: Idk

originally posted by: BomSquad

The parents should have gone to therapists that would understand better what this teenager was going through, but I don't believe that they were wrong in making the youngster wait until they could legally make the decision for themselves.

Yes they should have found the proper therapist. And yes they were wrong in making their "son" wait until "he" was 18.

If they had researched Transgender, they would have known that. They would have known "he" needed hormone blockers as early as possible to prevent the effects of testosterone.

What they did was take his laptop away from "him" because "he" was researching INAPPROPRIATE information. Then forced him into Christian counseling.

Now there are petitions to charge the parents with murder, because they forced their "son" into Faith Healing, instead of getting him proper medical help.

Some may scoff at this, but other parents have been charged with denying their children proper medical care and forcing them into Faith Healing.

originally posted by: Rocker2013
People are actually claiming that she should have just dealt with it, that she should have just been happy the way she was, that these were all choices... tell me oh wise ones, when did you learn to "deal" with your own gender issues? Oh wait, you didn't have to, and you have absolutely no experience of the torment and turmoil these young people have to go through.

Everybody, no matter what their situation, torment, turmoil, or however you want to label it, creates their emotions the exact same way.

There are facts of the situation, and then the person gives meanings to the facts. Facts vs. stories.

The stories, or meanings, somebody gives to a situation are what cause the emotional suffering, not the facts.

Just read Leelah's suicide note. She spelled out every belief she had that led her to walk in front of the truck.

She believed she would never have enough friends, or ever get enough love.

Are those facts? Or are those beliefs?

In my experience helping many people who were dealing with an external situation like having been raped by their father, what helps them get unstuck immediately and be happy us just REALIZING the stories they're telling about the situation are what's causing the emotional pain.

One woman laughed when she "got" this, like she just saw how a magician did a magic trick. She said, "You mean what happened 30 years ago lasted less than 10 minutes, but the stories I've been telling myself about it have been making me unhappy for 30 years?!"

She got it. The facts hadn't changed. She simply realized the stories and meanings she had given the facts were what was causing her to be depressed - for 30 years!

Try it.

Think of a time that you were sad. What were the facts? What story did you tell about those facts? You can't be sad without the story.

originally posted by: defuntion


Did you read the suicide note?

Leelah believed she would never have enough friends, or never have enough love.

How can you say that she wouldn't have still killed herself no matter what her parents did?

You just described how suicide can devastate those close to the person who died, and then you perpetuate a false belief that the survivors are the ones who are to blame.

Leelah is dead because she decided to walk in front of a truck. That's a fact.

Everything else is speculation. A story. "Would of's" and "Could of's" are nothing more than mental masturbation.

How can we help other people going forward? By being loving and compassionate to everybody, unconditionally.

Blame is always a story. When you're loving somebody, you can't be judging them or blaming them.

I did read it.

I beilieve the family are the victims, but also to blame.
The parents could have prevented this.
The girl didn't feel loved. Her parents could have supported her, and they may well have if the kid didn't choose to murder herself.

There was a way out for her.

Both she and her parents failed and we now have a dead kid and devastated guilt ridden parents.

It is not fair.

Call it speculation, but those are the facts.
No good comes from self-murder and it does nothing but promote the idea for other transgenders fighting similar identity crisisies of their own.

Again, selfish.

My opinion and we can agree to disagree..

But I think we both can agree that her death was a bad thing.

Yes, opinions are just beliefs. Perceptions. We all have different perceptions. None are right or wrong.

The secret is just being aware of what you're thinking is a perception, a belief. Be aware of the emotional state that belief creates in you.

If a belief serves you, serves others, and serves the greater good, then it might be a useful belief. If a perception or belief does not serve you, does not serve others, and does not serve the greater good, then it might not be a useful belief.

I challenge your perception that her death is a bad thing. The fact is she is dead. Based on your spiritual beliefs, it might be a good thing or bad thing. I don't know.

It doesn't matter. What matters is simply being aware that the beliefs we have about her death are going to affect us right now, and affect our actions going forward.

I would like to believe Leelah was happy when she set out to walk in front of the truck, and that she felt like her life was going to help millions of people. I would like to believe that Leelah's spirit is alive and happy, and she's free. Is that a bad thing?

We get to choose what we believe. We have no way of knowing what she was thinking when she walked in front of the truck, or how she was feeling. It might have been the happiest moment of her life. Or not. The point is all we can do is make up a story about it, and recognize it's our story, not real.

originally posted by: arestomomentum
a reply to: Annee

Not the only thing in OUR food supply that damages the hormone balance. Soy is just ONE of them. Take a look at the long list of chemistry that doesn't belong in our body, but stupid humans eat it anyway and wonder why they feel strange.

Gender differences have been around long before man added chemicals to food.

I don't accept this as an excuse for gender differences, ADD, Autism etc.

Should people eat right? Yes. Your body is your temple.

a reply to: Jamie1

I can accept that.
Or, i would like to...

But it is hard for me...

I really do like your perception. I wish I could share it...