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'Fix Society': Transgender Teen Posted Plea Before Suicide

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posted on Jan, 3 2015 @ 07:20 PM
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a reply to: Jamie1

It's a fact that you do not agree with how I interpreted your question and gave my answer.

My story and I'm sticking to it.




posted on Jan, 3 2015 @ 07:23 PM
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I'll remember this as the "playing dead" strategy... lol.. like what you're supposed to do if a bear finds you in the woods.



posted on Jan, 3 2015 @ 07:24 PM
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except your not supposed to love a bear :p



posted on Jan, 3 2015 @ 07:28 PM
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Believe me -- if you grow up with a bi-polar alcoholic mother -- you learn quickly the difference between Fact and Story.

If you don't -- you don't survive.

Been there -- done that.



posted on Jan, 3 2015 @ 08:27 PM
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a reply to: MALBOSIA
I did not ask you why we should not let teenagers do as they want. I asked how does this in any way effect you or anybody? So far you have not said jack on that, but yet said that it effects you and society as a whole. Well go ahead and explain how it does that? In my opinion they should have brought that kid to a different method of counseling maybe a shrink and try to methodologically change her mind on the whole thing.

In fact like most kids if there parents are going to push in one direction, most will push in the other no matter the issue. You tell a kid or teenager to take out the garbage or do something minor, well most times especially if its out of blue an there on there phone there going to push the other way, or bitch and moan.

So ya, the kid whatever her issues, they were in her head even it ultimately lead to her death. I am just saying the method the parents and everybody around her went about in trying to change her mind and see the light was prone for any kid on anything to push the other way. Likely it would have been best to just let the kid go on and see for herself in more real and personal setting or unbiased counseling that the she may have not thought this out to its conclusion.

So ya! Making a deal with her and getting her into a setting or area were other transgender people are for counseling and mingling may have changed her mind on the whole thing eventually, especially once she realized what a pain in the butt the whole thing was going to be...But by pushing and prodding it basically helped cement the reality she had in her head. If it was real or not, in not the question.

After all you seem to believe that some random person who chooses to be one way or another will have an effect on you. In fact even if she lived 2 houses next from you, well you would not likely even know or still run across her. In fact the only way this would make any impact on you or anybody is if you went out of your way to make it so, and I am talking buying plane tickets and stalking and all that stuff. So ya, your both silly individuals, but yours believe seems to be a bit more silly.

Which is just as illogical as her believe that things will work out as she thinks they will even if she went along with the whole procedure of hormone treatment and all. After all, like somebody said before 50% or something come to regret there decision. I dont know how accurate that number is, but either way. Its not likely to effect any of us in the slightest, so ultimately this is between the kids ideas and thoughts and believes and the parents ideas and thoughts and believes. Society is merely an arbitrary concept in such a matter because it would not effect 99% of any of us but those involved in the kids life.



posted on Jan, 3 2015 @ 08:47 PM
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originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: Entreri06
2: we should not be doing sex changes on children or introducing hormone therapy. It's just too invasive for a child to make that call.



Hormone blockers have shown no sign of lasting effects (to date). When a person chooses to stop them, their normal body production kicks in.

Most children seem to know if they are transgender, even if they are not sure what it is. They need to be in a treatment program as early as possible. Treatment means counseling and medical support. No doctor is gonna just hand out hormone blockers.

Early "diagnosis" and treatment helps the child with self esteem and acceptance ---- until they are at a more mature age that they can make decisions for themselves.

Everyone is different. Not all transgenders are going to choose surgery. But, the hormone blockers prevent the development of breasts and the effects of testosterone. Which does make it easier and less invasive.

BTW: there are camps for Trans-Kids starting as young as 8: www.camparanutiq.org...



We really need a better understanding of the brain and brain chemistry. That way we can scan them and know with some real accuracy. Sadly I bet it's not even that cut and dry. We are all probubally different with a 1000 different levels inbetween.



posted on Jan, 3 2015 @ 09:02 PM
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originally posted by: Entreri06

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: Entreri06
2: we should not be doing sex changes on children or introducing hormone therapy. It's just too invasive for a child to make that call.



Hormone blockers have shown no sign of lasting effects (to date). When a person chooses to stop them, their normal body production kicks in.

Most children seem to know if they are transgender, even if they are not sure what it is. They need to be in a treatment program as early as possible. Treatment means counseling and medical support. No doctor is gonna just hand out hormone blockers.

Early "diagnosis" and treatment helps the child with self esteem and acceptance ---- until they are at a more mature age that they can make decisions for themselves.

Everyone is different. Not all transgenders are going to choose surgery. But, the hormone blockers prevent the development of breasts and the effects of testosterone. Which does make it easier and less invasive.

BTW: there are camps for Trans-Kids starting as young as 8: www.camparanutiq.org...



We really need a better understanding of the brain and brain chemistry. That way we can scan them and know with some real accuracy. Sadly I bet it's not even that cut and dry. We are all probubally different with a 1000 different levels inbetween.


At least the "talk" has started, so to speak. Once there was was acceptance, especially by psychiatry and science, the door opened. Unfortunately it's a minority issue and funding is difficult.

There's a female expert, can't remember her field, that says sexuality is all shades of gray. Been trying to find it --- unfortunately the movie "Shades of a Gray" gets in the way.

Anyway, in 68 years I've seen lots of changes.



posted on Jan, 3 2015 @ 09:19 PM
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a reply to: Mousygretchen
Everybody especially kids are for a part conditioned into there roles. And lets face some of thing things I have read on this site, its not like we have some extremely bright bulbs here, and if I or anybody or group, well if it was social accepted can condition a kid to grow up thinking there a duck if they wanted to. In ancient times this whole sex relations this was not as big as an issue, but then again you have to ask which ancient times are we talking about?

In ancient Rome and Greece even in Egypt and beyond yes there was an equivalent of this, in fact they were more lose in there definition of sex and sexual roles, and socially it was accepted even endorsed in sentences. So ya even back then you would have at the very least have males born who thought themself as feminine or females. And for a greater part it was basically them molding the the fabric of society and influenced by those around them most especially there upbringing and conditioning when young. But you also got to think that they had sex cults back then were it was not a big deal to have sex with young children and in some societies males having relationships with younger effeminate males was nowhere near as frowned upon.

And if you go more backwards in history to the times of tribes and even cavemen, well they would not have had this problem. But only because there societies and groups worked on a more day to day basis and had not time for any of it. They were more concerned with survival then anything else, and if anybody may have did something like this..Well nobody had time for that #, and would not likely care. Also there groups and social outlook was a lot less complicated, and kids did not have nowhere near as many messages and things headed there way, not to mention all the mixed messages you would get today when growing up in our more complex societies. I think for the most part this whole thing may have started about the same time humans starting to be more then just hunter gatherer and in small groups or villages, basically at the onset of when humans started dwelling in cities full of more complex and a much more higher number of people, well this whole suddentely cropped up.

So the question is. If for the most part kids are merely just products of there environment, I mean they dont even associate with a gender while young, I think it only really kicks in for most when there around 10 or so years before they really look around and try to mold themselfs to a gender. And well in this case, given the kids environment and parents and everything. There would have been just as much pressure for this kid to mold and lean toward being male as the other, in fact more so since I think the kids parents were more of the christian type. So really if there was any influence while growing up it would have been to be as she was born ie a male.

Which again just asks why if most things were like that would this kid who was born male chose to associate as being female. I suppose you could go on about a lot of things, anything from the mixed messages kids get, to social feminization, to even the whole chemicals in our foods and water, to like somebody said the whole soy products making you more effeminate to who knows what else. And you can argue for or against any of that all day long.

In all it could be a culmination of all that and even the fact that in our day and age our socities are not so one dimensional or as simple as it was back then, and more complex things are the more differences are likely to crop up, it all could be just one factor that lead to it. But that still does not say why somebody who pretty much had things or at least in a social context to be a boy which she was born into, would chose to associate and think that they were female when a great amount of pressure on this kid while growing up from 3 on upwards even up to the time of the suicide was to associate and condition the gender he born into?



posted on Jan, 3 2015 @ 10:50 PM
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Alcorn on Tumblr complained that her parents only let her see Christian therapists who told her she "should look to God for help."

Does God approve of drugging your child with Prozac?


"I never actually got the therapy I needed to cure me of my depression," she wrote on Tumblr. On Reddit, in a post she titled, "I'm sure someone on here can convince me not to kill myself," she wrote she was taking what is a powerful (and popular, albeit older) anti-depressant. "I've been on prozac for about a year, and my dosages have been going up every couple months or so," she wrote one month ago. "I'm currently taking 60 mg every morning." The FDA states antidepressants, including Prozac, may increase the risk of suicide in children and adolescents. Also, the popular website Drugs.com suggests the maximum dosage for people 18 and younger is 20 mg. per day in most, though not all cases. Leelah wrote she was taking 60 mg.


www.thenewcivilrightsmovement.com...



posted on Jan, 4 2015 @ 01:18 AM
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originally posted by: Annee
a reply to: Jamie1

It's a fact that you do not agree with how I interpreted your question and gave my answer.

My story and I'm sticking to it.


The question requires no interpretation. It's a simple question. It's not, "Would Leelah be alive if her parents acted differently?"

It's whether or not our answer to that question is a fact, or an opinion.

Why is so hard for you to admit that it's an opinion, not a fact, that Leelah would be alive if her parents acted differently? Do you really have a problem saying that it's just a story you're telling yourself, and not a fact?

This is the exact same thing Leelah did when she convinced herself that she couldn't be happy. All those things she believed were just that - beliefs.

Her beliefs caused her to walk in front of the truck, not her parents. She chose the meaning to give her situation, not her parents.

Insisting that beliefs are Truth or recognizing they're merely stories can be the difference between marriage and divorce, life and death, being happy and being stressed out.

The more stories you have about life, the more complicated it will seem, and the fewer solutions you'll see for any problem.



posted on Jan, 4 2015 @ 01:38 AM
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a reply to: Jamie1

Your "tool" of fact and story is just that. I know it very well. Works great when used as a tool to help people separate the two when needed.

But, unless you're Data, it's not part of every day living.

I am not interested in talking with you.


edit on 4-1-2015 by Annee because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 4 2015 @ 04:18 AM
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a reply to: Jamie1

Leelah could be alive if here parents wouldn't have let her down. They were responsible to guide and guard her and didn't. They were the ones giving her the feeling she could never be accepted or loved. That's a fact. A fact possibility.
How is such a still learning and growing little person supposed to be strong enough to feel welcome entirely on her own? What she would have needed would have been people to love and understand, or at least accept her and let her be who she is. Or who she could have become, if this messed up social corsette of "norm" wouldn't have smothered her before she had a chance to find love.
I guess you are one of the lucky ones who's parents always supported? You probably don't know what solitude means?



posted on Jan, 4 2015 @ 10:03 AM
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a reply to: Jamie1

As a thought experiment lets say from the time Leelah was 13 and onwards, you lived in a spare room in the families house as a completely unbiased mediator, with the highest values of peace, health and happiness, ideally for all parities in the house hold. And, over the course of this time, from 13 years old till just recently, Leelah and parents would have a (magical) device which reported to you all of their thoughts and feelings (lol, lets be glad we dont live in this kind of reality); how would you go about mediating not a happy ending, or sad ending, but no ending, i.e. happy, healthy life?

To be more clear, what I am understanding is what path would you take to solve this, because I believe my proposition will force you to 'sort of take sides' whether the kid should do what he wants, or whether you should try to change the kids mind. Or the latter, than if that fails, accept the former. I agree that the world is a sloppy place, and children struggle through lives in far harsher environments, without meaning to offend everyone, I think we must admit this is something of a 1st world problem. Though very philosophically interesting, and very realistically necessary to work towards understanding and implementing ideal solutions.



posted on Jan, 4 2015 @ 10:16 AM
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a reply to: galadofwarthethird

How does it effect me? Well, I have a 7 yr old son; whom, after being exposed to all the "pride" hype in the last couple years, has asked me if he should like boys or girls? I have never said anything to him (obviously) about sexuality but none the less he comes home challenging his own sexuality - at 7....

Now you want to start a hype over childhood gender modifications... and I'm not supposed to be worried about any of the influence.

Parents have enough problems raising kids now a days. We don't need to be plugging their heads with more issues that parents have no real control over but sit back and watch.

Go ahead. You and your liberal, PC, new age hipsters can keep on bring issues into MY home because your having trouble figuring out what you WANT and neglecting what you will come to realize eventually - it is not what you NEED.



posted on Jan, 4 2015 @ 10:33 AM
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originally posted by: ImaFungi
a reply to: Jamie1

As a thought experiment lets say from the time Leelah was 13 and onwards, you lived in a spare room in the families house as a completely unbiased mediator, with the highest values of peace, health and happiness, ideally for all parities in the house hold. And, over the course of this time, from 13 years old till just recently, Leelah and parents would have a (magical) device which reported to you all of their thoughts and feelings (lol, lets be glad we dont live in this kind of reality); how would you go about mediating not a happy ending, or sad ending, but no ending, i.e. happy, healthy life?

To be more clear, what I am understanding is what path would you take to solve this, because I believe my proposition will force you to 'sort of take sides' whether the kid should do what he wants, or whether you should try to change the kids mind. Or the latter, than if that fails, accept the former. I agree that the world is a sloppy place, and children struggle through lives in far harsher environments, without meaning to offend everyone, I think we must admit this is something of a 1st world problem. Though very philosophically interesting, and very realistically necessary to work towards understanding and implementing ideal solutions.


I love thought experiments!


I've worked with a mother/daughter situation very similar, but the context wasn't gender. The context doesn't matter.

The mother brought her 21 year old daughter to one of my events for me to "fix" her.

I did what I always do.

I had each of them just become AWARE of the facts, and the stories they were telling about the facts. For simplicity sake, let's just say the daughter wanted to be free to do her own thing. The mother was super unhappy about this.

I had the mother just become aware of her thoughts that were causing her to be unhappy. Then I asked if if she loved her daughter. She said yes. I asked her, if she could be loving her daughter while she was in an angry state. She said no.

I asked her if her goal was to be unconditionally loving to her daughter. She said yes. Mind you, this was in a room with about 30 people watching on the edge of their seats.

Then here's the important part...

I asked her what she could do, right in that moment, that would make her daughter feel unconditionally loved.

She turned to her daughter, held both her hands, looked into her eyes and starting crying. She told her how much she loved her, and how much she's always loved her. The girl started crying next. Pretty soon half the room was crying.

The only "side" that needs to be taken is the side of being aware of how our own thoughts are affecting us. Our own beliefs.

The entire secret is just getting people to the first step - to identify what are the stories, and what are the facts.

Fact - the girl did some seriously stupid sh!t. No need for details. Fact - her mom said a lot of words from a place of anger, not love. Fact - her mom changed some real-world, physical parameters.

Everything else was their stories about those facts. "My mom is a b!itch" is a story" "My daughter is irresponsible and is going to ruin her life," is a story.

So I would have done the same with Leelah and her mom. Knowing their thoughts isn't important. It's getting THEM to just know it is ALL their thoughts that are causing their emotional states. That's important.

One more thing. Physiology is also super important! Just being dehydrated or tired affects your emotional state. So do hormones. PMS is not a myth. Neither is menopause. So do drugs and alcohol.

Physiology always comes first. I always make sure people are in a good state, hydrated, moving around, even have music playing. Music changes a person's state very quickly.

What that really does is remove the focus on the stories that they're playing in their own minds long enough to raise their awareness and get them present in the moment, not in a form of self-hypnosis, stuck in their own thoughts.

It's really cool. It works. Every time.


I really appreciate your thoughtful posts.



posted on Jan, 4 2015 @ 11:48 AM
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originally posted by: Peeple
a reply to: Jamie1

Leelah could be alive if here parents wouldn't have let her down. They were responsible to guide and guard her and didn't. They were the ones giving her the feeling she could never be accepted or loved. That's a fact. A fact possibility.
How is such a still learning and growing little person supposed to be strong enough to feel welcome entirely on her own? What she would have needed would have been people to love and understand, or at least accept her and let her be who she is. Or who she could have become, if this messed up social corsette of "norm" wouldn't have smothered her before she had a chance to find love.
I guess you are one of the lucky ones who's parents always supported? You probably don't know what solitude means?




That's ridiculous second guessing! All parents let there kids down. It's a part of growing up when you realize they arnt perfect either...



posted on Jan, 4 2015 @ 11:52 AM
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originally posted by: MALBOSIA
a reply to: galadofwarthethird

How does it effect me? Well, I have a 7 yr old son; whom, after being exposed to all the "pride" hype in the last couple years, has asked me if he should like boys or girls? I have never said anything to him (obviously) about sexuality but none the less he comes home challenging his own sexuality - at 7....

Now you want to start a hype over childhood gender modifications... and I'm not supposed to be worried about any of the influence.

Parents have enough problems raising kids now a days. We don't need to be plugging their heads with more issues that parents have no real control over but sit back and watch.

Go ahead. You and your liberal, PC, new age hipsters can keep on bring issues into MY home because your having trouble figuring out what you WANT and neglecting what you will come to realize eventually - it is not what you NEED.



I'm raising a 7 year old boy.

He likes My Little Pony. He talks about being a girl in a past life. He has no interest in sports, cars, or super heroes.

He also likes farts and being loud and play aggressive. He's in a home of all women.

Yes, he has asked if he should like boys or girls. I tell him he can like who ever he wants.

I love him and support him for who he is. If I'm going to have fears, it would be that he isn't healthy. He has a friend with Cancer.


edit on 4-1-2015 by Annee because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 4 2015 @ 11:57 AM
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a reply to: Jamie1

One of "your events"? Oh brother. I really need an eye-roll emoticon here.

I smell some marketing on these posts.



posted on Jan, 4 2015 @ 12:06 PM
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originally posted by: Annee
I'm raising a 7 year old boy.

He likes My Little Pony. He talks about being a girl in a past life. He has no interest in sports, cars, or super heroes.

He also likes farts and being loud and play aggressive. He's in a home of all women.

Yes, he has asked if he should like boys or girls. I tell him he can like who ever he wants.

I love him and support him for who he is. If I'm going to have fears, it would be that he isn't healthy. He has a friend with Cancer.


You sound like a great parent. he's very lucky to have you. I wish I had a clapping smiley here, so this will have to do...



posted on Jan, 4 2015 @ 12:19 PM
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a reply to: Jamie1




LOL... what was the question.


Still waiting for you back in that post...

:-)

Take your time




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