'Fix Society': Transgender Teen Posted Plea Before Suicide

originally posted by: jonnywhite

originally posted by: Annee
The main reason she killed herself was because she didn't want to look like a man in a dress. To her she would have been disfigured and undesirable to anyone.

Her parents denied her the medical treatment of hormone blockers.

Instead they removed her from school, took away her laptop and phone because she was researching "undesirable content".

They made her a prisoner at home and forced her into Christian counseling.

The mother claims she loved her children unconditionally. Obviously she didn't.

And the younger they receive hormones the better the results.

But if you were a woman inside wouldn't it be better to be a imperfect woman on the outside than to be a man on the outside? Lots of people live in adverse situations. She/he could have made it work.

He/she may have had some depression, not just transgender issues. And yet I think being so young, he/she had no perspective.

Like I've said, have you ever raised a teenager? They're all about emotions. They're completely illogical. (Well most).

There are days for all of them that you just hope both them and you live through it. And those are the "normal" straight kids.

The chemicals in their body are on overdrive preparing them for sex. All they think about is being sexually attractive. (Well most in my experience).

This kid seemed pretty together to me actually. I think his parents did a great job, up to a point. I mean, he openly came out to them. He must have trusted them and believed they would accept him. But, they didn't.

a reply to: Jamie1
Ya true. But in all your talking about a 15yr old.

In general it takes even those with no such issues, even if they have everything in there lives going good, well even for them it takes practically a whole lifetime to find out that happiness comes from them and there emotions are products of themselfs.

Besides humans are just part and parcel merely responsive and products of there society. Very few kids are that grown up about it, and even very few grown ups are that grown up about it as they can literally control there emotions and happiness at a drop of a hat.

Obviously is this person felt strong enough to kill herself over it, then there needs to be a more easier transition in society were they can do as they do without all the drama....After all free will and all. And for all anybody knows they may at one point come to regret there choice, but that is there choice to make and regret if it so comes to it. So ya she may have need to be thought to control her emotions. Well good luck with that because those emotions were so strong for this individual that she killed herself over them.

I was very sad reading the op, and all the disturbing posts I read next prove exactly what's wrong with society and why it will never be fixed.

Suicide is not selfishness or weakness or the easy way out. It takes a lots of courage, desperation, sadness, pain and psychological torture beyond imagination, for someone to commit suicide.

I know many people cannot understand this, but at least show some compassion instead of talking sh!t about the poor dead girl.

a reply to: Jamie1
Happiness is not a choice. By ‘choosing’ to be happy when in reality something’s not right, you suppress all your negative emotions. leading to an even more severe depression.

Happiness is a luxury. The luxury to be able to live in harmony with yourself and your surroundings, and to be capable to achieve fulfillment.

As others posted before we are not all the same, we didn't all have the same opportunities, the same circumstances,
and the same feelings, likings, taste, temper, needs etc. Everyone who is different than the mass
should be respected for what he is, and not being bullied around for being different.

originally posted by: galadofwarthethird
a reply to: Jamie1
Ya true. But in all your talking about a 15yr old.

In general it takes even those with no such issues, even if they have everything in there lives going good, well even for them it takes practically a whole lifetime to find out that happiness comes from them and there emotions are products of themselfs.

Besides humans are just part and parcel merely responsive and products of there society. Very few kids are that grown up about it, and even very few grown ups are that grown up about it as they can literally control there emotions and happiness at a drop of a hat.

Obviously is this person felt strong enough to kill herself over it, then there needs to be a more easier transition in society were they can do as they do without all the drama....After all free will and all. And for all anybody knows they may at one point come to regret there choice, but that is there choice to make and regret if it so comes to it. So ya she may have need to be thought to control her emotions. Well good luck with that because those emotions were so strong for this individual that she killed herself over them.

It's not about controlling emotions or even thoughts.

It's simply about being AWARE it's our thoughts that are causing the emotions. It's about being aware of the difference between stories and facts.

Everything she said about her future in her suicide note was a story -not fact. It was those stories she was telling herself that led her to walk in front of a truck.

There is no need for this. There is no need to change the infinite variations in 7 billion people's behavior, hoping those changes in behavior will somehow fit like a puzzle piece into every person's perception of the way the world should be.

All that is needed is for children (and adults) to be shown how it's their thoughts, their perceptions, that lead to emotions like sadness and helplessness. It's the perception of the facts, not the facts.

If we could honor her last words, it would be to show people this one distinction. Judgment and ridicule turns to compassion and gratitude when we realize it's the stories that cause the emotional suffering, not the facts.

And we can choose what stories we tell ourselves. We can choose our beliefs.

Otherwise we might as well be mindless machines. Dissolving negative emotions does not make us robots. Mindlessly reacting with negative emotions is more robotic than consciously choosing our emotions.

a reply to: Jamie1
Happiness is a choice. But circumstances do differ, how many comatose and and people missing half there face do you think are happy, or take for instance this case of charlie no face. link. I do believe happiness while for two different people in the same situation and same life may differ, but how many people do you know like that? I personally have never seen any, not even twins are that similar.

So ya, circumstances and differences do exist. I would wonder how far this happiness thing would last for you if you were in this kids shoes, or how about charlie no face. The guy continued on even after all that up to his death at age 74. So ya! How happy would you be if you somebody fried your face off with chemicals? I mean, what definition of happiness are we talking about here.

If your talking about a normal person with very few issues and pretty normal circumstance. Well by your own account you said even they and depending on the person end up depressed and kill themselfs and over smaller stuff then this kid was going through. In all, I suppose maybe in another lifetime you will have the chance to see just how far your happiness will go if you are set to the same circumstances. We shall see I suppose.

But I still agree with you, happiness for the most part happiness is something that comes from oneself and not so much from outside influences. But like I said, it depends on just what your definition of happiness is and for the most part circumstances.

originally posted by: Dr1Akula
a reply to: Jamie1
Happiness is not a choice. By ‘choosing’ to be happy when in reality something’s not right, you suppress all your negative emotions. leading to an even more severe depression.

Happiness is a luxury. The luxury to be able to live in harmony with yourself and your surroundings, and to be capable to achieve fulfillment.

As others posted before we are not all the same, we didn't all have the same opportunities, the same circumstances,
and the same feelings, likings, taste, temper, needs etc. Everyone who is different than the mass
should be respected for what he is, and not being bullied around for being different.

Maybe this will help...

The other day I was late. I went out to my car. I barely got out of my driveway and my back right tire went flat.

F&##!

That's what I said.

I that point, I had a choice. I could choose to bitch and complain, and tell myself stories about the stupid tire, and what it's going to mean being even later, or I could choose to be happy.

Guess what?

When you choose to be happy it's much easier to actually solve real world problems, like fixing the tire. Instead of bitching, I waved down a security guy where I live. He had a jack in his car. We had the spare on in less than 7 minutes. And I enjoyed talking with this guy and the experience. Those 7 minutes were enjoyable instead of painful because I was aware telling myself stories about the situation wouldn't serve me, wouldn't serve others, and wouldn't serve the greater good.

The meaning you choose to give your circumstance is a choice. The meaning you choose will determine whether your happy or sad.

Choose one meaning, and the resulting emotion is sadness. Choose a different meaning, and it's happiness.

You're right. We do not all have the same circumstances, but we all have the same opportunity to be happy in any moment.

How do you think people can change from being sad one minute, to being happy and laughing the next? Their circumstances didn't change?

I'm not saying to pretend you're happy. If you're not happy in any moment, accept it. Experience it. Observe the thoughts, the meanings you are giving things, that are causing your emotions.

Two people can have the same experience, and one can be happy, and the other miserable. Why?

It's because of one thing - their thoughts.

Try it. There's no need to argue philosophy and theories about "repressing" unhappiness.

Next time you're experiencing what we would call a negative emotion, just experience it, and observe the beliefs you're holding onto that are causing your unhappiness.

Whatever circumstance you describe as a reason for being unhappy, there are people experiencing worse circumstances who ARE happy. Why is that?

originally posted by: galadofwarthethird
a reply to: Jamie1
Happiness is a choice. But circumstances do differ, how many comatose and and people missing half there face do you think are happy, or take for instance this case of charlie no face. link. I do believe happiness while for two different people in the same situation and same life may differ, but how many people do you know like that? I personally have never seen any, not even twins are that similar.

So ya, circumstances and differences do exist. I would wonder how far this happiness thing would last for you if you were in this kids shoes, or how about charlie no face. The guy continued on even after all that up to his death at age 74. So ya! How happy would you be if you somebody fried your face off with chemicals? I mean, what definition of happiness are we talking about here.

If your talking about a normal person with very few issues and pretty normal circumstance. Well by your own account you said even they and depending on the person end up depressed and kill themselfs and over smaller stuff then this kid was going through. In all, I suppose maybe in another lifetime you will have the chance to see just how far your happiness will go if you are set to the same circumstances. We shall see I suppose.

But I still agree with you, happiness for the most part happiness is something that comes from oneself and not so much from outside influences. But like I said, it depends on just what your definition of happiness is and for the most part circumstances.

You've must have missed what I wrote in some other posts.

I've traveled around the world working with people in incredibly dire situations. One woman witnessed her boss blow his brains out. Another witnessed her husband blow his brains out. Another woman found her daughter dead on her living room couch.

In all these situations the unhappiness, the devastation, the anger, the regret, everything, was 100% caused by the STORIES the people were telling about the circumstance, not the circumstance.

I have a good friend who was burned over 50% of his body and has no hands. He is one of the happiness people I know.

The magic moment when pain and suffering turns to happiness is when somebody simply becomes AWARE that it's their own thoughts that are causing the pain and suffering, not the circumstances.

It would be a horrible thing to tell somebody who's already experiencing something like finding their child dead that it means they can no longer be happy.

They can. I've seen it over and over. I've seen the tears of joy, felt the hugs of thanks, for sharing this with people who have been stuck for years.

Just become aware of when you're feeling any "negative" emotional state to know that emotion is being caused by a story you're telling yourself, not the facts. Start by just asking yourself, "Is that a story or a fact?" when you become aware of how you're perceiving things.

If you focus on what you can control, and what you have instead of what you don't have, it will get you in the right direction.

a reply to: WeAre0ne

You didn't answer any of my questions. Neither did your link. In fact, your link just proves that being 'transgender' is nothing more than a personal belief formed and influenced by society.

If you got that off of wiki, you might want to scroll on down the page

Yes, it clearly states that as one "Theory"

However, there are other theories as well....


Biological-based theories


GENETICS

The androgen receptor (AR), also known as NR3C4, is activated by the binding of testosterone or dihydrotestosterone, where it plays a critical role in the forming of primary and secondary male sex characteristics. Hare et al. found that male-to-female transsexuals were found to have longer repetitions of the gene, which reduced its effectiveness at binding testosterone.[18] A variant genotype for a gene called CYP17, which acts on the sex hormones pregnenolone and progesterone, has been found to be linked to female-to-male transsexualism but not MTF transsexualism. Most notably, the FTM subjects not only had the variant genotype more frequently, but had an allele distribution equivalent to male controls, unlike the female controls. The paper concluded that the loss of a female-specific CYP17 T -34C allele distribution pattern is associated with FtM transsexualism.[19]

BRAIN

In a first-of-its-kind study, Zhou et al. (1995) found that in a region of the brain called the bed nucleus of the stria terminalis (BSTc), a region known for sex and anxiety responses, MTF transsexuals have a female-normal size while FTM transsexuals have a male-normal size. While the transsexuals studied had taken hormones, this was accounted for by including non-transsexual male and female controls who, for a variety of medical reasons, had experienced hormone reversal. The controls still retained sizes typical for their gender. No relationship to sexual orientation was found.[20]


In a follow-up study, Kruijver et al. (2000) looked at the number of neurons in BSTc instead of volumes. They found the same results as Zhou et al. (1995), but with even more dramatic differences. One MTF subject who had never gone on hormones was also included, and who matched up with the female neuron counts nonetheless.[21]

Genetic variation, hormones, and differences in brain functioning and brain structures provide evidence for the biological etiology of the symptoms associated with GID. Twin studies indicate that GID is 62% heritable, evidencing the genetic influence in its development.[18] In male-to-female transsexuals, GID is associated with variations in an individual's genes that make the individual less sensitive to androgens.[1] Zhou et al. (1995) found that in one area of the brain, male-to-female transsexuals have a typically female structure, and female-to-male transsexuals have a typically male structure.[19] Zhou et al. (1995) had a sample size of only six male-to-female transgender individuals. There may, for example, be some non-transgender heterosexual men with some brain structures that would be expected in a female, as the sample size in Zhou et al. (1995) is too small to exclude such possibilities. In addition, some aspects of trans women's hypothalamus functioning resemble that typical of cisgender women.[20] The presence of typically female patterns of white matter and neuron patterns has also been observed in the brains of male-to-female transsexuals[21][22] and overall longer instances of the androgen receptor gene.[23] (Also see Causes of transsexualism.) However, these markers do not identify every individual who undergoes transition.[24] Similar brain structure differences have, however, been noted between gay and heterosexual men, and between lesbian and heterosexual women.[25][26] More recent studies have found that circumstance and repeated activities such as meditation modify brain structures in a process called brain plasticity or neuroplasticity. In May 2014, the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences reported that for fathers, parenting "rewires the male brain".[27]

Basically, the point is, it's not like someone all of a sudden decides "Hey, guess what, I don't want to be a boy any more"

That's what drove that teen crazy because he/she could not understand WHY he wanted to be 'Leelah' and he had no one to help him in that area

Like another poster stated, since this goes against many religious thinking, they at the church like many here, thought it was all in his head

Unfortunately, being a transgender is a lot more complicated than just wanting to be a girl



Much respect~
snarky

a reply to: Jamie1

It's not about controlling emotions or even thoughts. It's simply about being AWARE it's our thoughts that are causing the emotions. It's about being aware of the difference between stories and facts.

Well ya. But whats your point. Obviously she believed those stories as fact. And so...Very few kids can see outside there preconditioned reality, and as few adults. So really the kid died because she took things to far. It happens. Its what you all and even me are here for. To learn.

Everything she said about her future in her suicide note was a story -not fact. It was those stories she was telling herself that led her to walk in front of a truck.

Well ya. Most normal people get a little jaded and defunct when they learn all the # they have been thought as kids turns out to not be true, and some do kill themselfs over less stuff then this. So obviously, what exactly is reality. Is it reality that you dont have to go through that. Most assuredly.

All of civilization is merely an experiment, and all that you have been tough is merely a theory in progress. And the only way any of it works is because it took countless people and time for it to work. That is all.

There is no need for this. There is no need to change the infinite variations in 7 billion people's behavior, hoping those changes in behavior will somehow fit like a puzzle piece into every person's perception of the way the world should be.

Well obviously your not going to change 7 billions peoples views. In fact the kid got way to worked up when she found out none of her friends were really friends. I mean when i was at school I have very few friends, and generally I just wandered into different groups. And mostly I avoided it. But if it happened, I off-course expected them to change to suit my outtake on things. Some did not, a few of the virulent ones did after a few kicks to the nutts or smashed faces, or mental pressures. Its the way life goes. I believe everybody should at least put an effort into being what I expect them to be like. Though I do not believe it all that strongly. In fact most days I do not care what people think or believe.

I also off-course expect the 7 billion or so people to change to suit my take on things. Though I do not expect it to happen any time soon. You dig? So your point is that this kid was illogical, well obviously. Look at were she was raised and grew up, the parents were idiots, I mean you have to be pretty stupid to believe a magic man in the sky is going to change a person, christian counseling or whatever it is. There parents as well were nothing but the product of there environment, just like she was, and just like you are, and yes even just like I am.

All that is needed is for children (and adults) to be shown how it's their thoughts, their perceptions, that lead to emotions like sadness and helplessness. It's the perception of the facts, not the facts.

Well yes that's what the whole christian counseling this was for the change the facts into perceived facts. Perceived facts are the basis of all our religions and even governments and everything else. So really what your saying is that this kid died because she was not logical enough or smart enough to work out the fact that there is no real actual facts, but merely for the most part conditioned habits disguised as fact.

But ya! Obviously something did not work. And the end result speaks for itself. A more logical approach to counseling could have avoided this whole thing. So yes! You are right, maybe if somebody thought this kid that better and how to disassemble or remove herself from it all, then maybe she would have a better chance at doing whatever the kid wanted to do, and not end up killing herself.

If we could honor her last words, it would be to show people this one distinction. Judgment and ridicule turns to compassion and gratitude when we realize it's the stories that cause the emotional suffering, not the facts.

OK, true. But maybe people not getting worked up over this may help as well, or better yet if they are so inclined to stick to some choices to death, just give these people an outlet were they can do that without all the drama. After all its there live. But the what happened is the logical outcome given all the facts and circumstances in this kids life. Did it go to far? Yes for sure. But you can not dispute the fact that it happened. And no magical thinking otherwise is going to change that fact. So logically whatever they did, and all the people around her did. Well it did not work.

And we can choose what stories we tell ourselves. We can choose our beliefs.

I already do. Once I even made myself believe that the moon was made of cheese. That lasted however only a few days. I also believe you all are not. The truth! Everybody makes believe the stories they tell themselfs are real. And when you get millions of said people to believe said fairy tales they come true...For them. I mean....Religion, its not the most widely held fairy tale or the most convoluted, but it is the most easily discerned.

Otherwise we might as well be mindless machines. Dissolving negative emotions does not make us robots. Mindlessly reacting with negative emotions is more robotic than consciously choosing our emotions.

As somebody once put it. That is more easily said then done.

a reply to: eNumbra

we certainly shouldn't ever glorify the decision to kill oneself - at 17 there is still plenty of time to get help, escape the abusive(because that's what they are) family and live the way you want. This person is going to end up being a martyr for the cause which will have plenty of ramifications both good and bad on the trans community as a whole.

Ya exactly martyrdom does not work. It brings more bad then good in most cases. A few expeditions being that guy who is said to have walked on water. But even in that, well look were all of that has gotten anybody. Or how about in modern years, what of all the suicide bombers, that to is a form of martyrdom and even more misguided in my opinion then what this kid did.

In all I dont see why people make a big deal out of this. It was for the most part the parents choice, they could have either tried to understand or help there kid in different ways, or they could have gone on doing what they did. So seeing the result I suppose they either chose wrong or right depending on the way they want to look at it or to tell themselves whatever there believes.

But results are results and in this case it was death. And that in my opinion speaks for itself.

Being 17 she had other options, certainly, but she was right that it included a lifetime of pain. Everybody, cares way too much about what other people do and think; if everyone just f'd off and let people do what they want that they do no harm, we'd all be better off for it: but when even your family would ostracize you for something out of your control? It hurts. It hurts bad.

Ya exactly. They tried to impart there believe into there kid, and it did not work, hence death. And while the kid should not take it so serious, probably waiting it out a few years or so, well that did not happen. maybe for for somebody else in the kids situation they would have been different, but were not talking about someone else are we?

People need to chill and not think they are the arbiter and the all knowing knower of all that is good and bad for everybody around them. Or in this case, that seems to be the case. In another case it may be different and death may not be the result and ya the whole approach they went about it may have worked, but in this case it was not and did not work....Reasons for it being so? Well everybody has them it seems.

a reply to: Jamie1
Well then it sounds like this kid would have been better off under your counseling, and no I am not joking, it may have worked out better if you tried to somehow change her mind then the religious counseling the parents subject the kid to. But you know could have should have.

The parents though, what sort of emotions and thoughts do you believe are going through there head now?

originally posted by: ScientificRailgun
Why do you insist on calling her a boy?

...because HE had MALE genitalia, and a very visible laryngeal prominence (adams apple), and no breasts. It was a MALE body, and HE was pronounced MALE at birth.

HE had a mental issue which caused HIM to believe he was a girl. He was not a girl. It also caused him to be depressed and suicidal.

Just so we are clear... we are talking about this guy:

a reply to: MALBOSIA
Ya what personal need did any of this take from you? I mean how is a kid who was born a guy and thinks they are a girl effect you or any off us? How is that in any way or form bending any of your personal needs? You would not even have meet this kid even if she grew up and lived on, nor is it likely that any of us here on this whole site would have met her as well.

So explain why is it that I should give a # about your needs to keep this kid or other kids who think or wish to be be transgender from doing what they want if they truly and seriously believe it, even if there misguided and change there mind latter? How is that any of our business or will effect us in any possible way? Please do explain.

The way I see it. Its more drama, making a mountain out of molehill, and people have died for stupider reasons which they believed in. So if and if she was right or wrong, is really not even the question. And really would not have effected any of us in the slightest.

Obviously what you say is illogical.

a reply to: Mousygretchen


I know you signed up for this thread, and I really appreciate that, truly

If anyone here can help explain, it would be you

Having said that, hope you have some thick skin because unfortunately, as you can see, some of the remarks are ignorant at best

Don't think they are meant to be hurtful per say, but more along the lines of not understanding, therefore the whole thing of "Oh I want to be a girl" is made up



Thanks again for coming aboard
Hope you stick around because ATS does have some great topics at any given time, that is if you are interested



Much respect~
snarky

a reply to: snarky412

I did not "just get that off wiki".

If you would have read my posts, you would know that I have acknowledged that a male can have a brain that is physically identical to a woman's brain. My point, however, is that a brain by itself doesn't identify as a male or female.

He should have grown up to always know that he was male based on his body, and his genitalia. There was no reason at all for him to 'feel' like a female other than influence by society and mental illness.

He was only 14 when someone gave him the idea that he was transgender, and he grasped that conclusion and ran with it. Just because he was apparently homosexual, and enjoyed what females typically enjoy, that doesn't mean he is a girl trapped in a boys body, but society brainwashed him into believing that by giving him this false idea that he was transgender. Transgender doesn't really exist.

originally posted by: WeAre0ne

HE had a mental issue which caused HIM to believe he was a girl. He was not a girl. It also caused him to be depressed and suicidal.

And once there was ignorance that seizures were caused by being possessed by the Devil.

Sexual orientation: all shades of gray.

a reply to: Jamie1

Just become aware of when you're feeling any "negative" emotional state to know that emotion is being caused by a story you're telling yourself, not the facts. Start by just asking yourself, "Is that a story or a fact?" when you become aware of how you're perceiving things. 

If you've already mentioned this I apologize, but I'm wondering - when you meet someone who is tormented, and that person is either gay or transgender, do you consider this to be a story they tell themselves or a fact they should embrace?

a reply to: WeAre0ne


You know, with all due respect, you really ought to try 'Google'

There are many interesting articles on Transgenders
But of course, it sounds like you did not even bother to read the info I furnished

It seems like you already have made your mind up that, "it is what it is" .....yes, that's what I get that from your posts, loud and clear

You are only picking up information that suits your fancy, which is okay
But it makes you miss out on the larger picture

There was no reason at all for him to 'feel' like a female other than influence by society and mental illness.

He felt like a 'girl' when he was age 4 and did not know why
It was not until he was 14 that he learned about transgender

When trying to seek help he could not find any, even from his parents, because their thought process is like yours

It is not make believe and pretend...it's real

oops...