'Fix Society': Transgender Teen Posted Plea Before Suicide

a reply to: Annee

How does that relate to what I am saying in any way?

I am stating facts here. A brain, by itself, doesn't identify as male or female. If you remove a brain from a male or a female at birth, and found a way to keep it alive and raise it for 14 years (without a body), and you never told it it was male or female...

There is absolutely no way for the brain to suddenly identify as male or female. There is no genetically implanted idea that it is male or female, so it should never need to identify as either male or female. The only way it could ever identify as male or female is it if had some type of way to make said observation or measurement, which is where culture and or society comes into play.

The only way for the brain to even consider it was female (without having a body to suggest) is if it observed other confirmed female brains doing things which the brain can relate to, or found things in common with other female brains.

Things like playing with dolls, and putting on makeup, and wanting babies, and or being attracted to men. Those things do not exist in all cultures, and are not genetically passed on. They are not even unique to females, males do it too. They are all things society influences into females. In some cultures, females do not like makeup, do not play with dolls, and are very "tomboy" like.

So my point is... The only way for Joshua Alcorn to have come to the conclusion that he was a female stuck in a male body, is if society and our culture brainwashed him into believing so. Otherwise he should have just grown up to be a male whom has a lot in common with females, and is homosexual. None of this transgender BS.

originally posted by: snarky412
a reply to: WeAre0ne


You know, with all due respect, you really ought to try 'Google'

There are many interesting articles on Transgenders
But of course, it sounds like you did not even bother to read the info I furnished

It seems like you already have made your mind up that, "it is what it is" .....yes, that's what I get that from your posts, loud and clear

You are only picking up information that suits your fancy, which is okay
But it makes you miss out on the larger picture

There was no reason at all for him to 'feel' like a female other than influence by society and mental illness.

He felt like a 'girl' when he was age 4 and did not know why
It was not until he was 14 that he learned about transgender

When trying to seek help he could not find any, even from his parents, because their thought process is like yours

It is not make believe and pretend...it's real

With all due respect, you need to learn to read.

1: I am not saying 'it is what it is'.
2: I am not denying that a male can be born with a brain identical to a females brain.
3: Heck, I know that all humans start in the womb as a female, and it isn't until 60 days that it finally forms into male if it is to be male. That is why males have nipples. I understand that this process can malfunction or simply happens differently.
4: If Joshua would have come to me for help, I would have helped him understand that he was not a female trapped in a male body. He was simply a male with a lot in common with females, and society brainwashed him into thinking he was a female because of what society expects males and females to behave like. It is completely ridiculous to think he was a female stuck in a male body. I would have showed him the truth about the transgender MYTH, and he would probably still be alive too. I would treat his idea that he is a female stuck in a males body like a mental illness because that is what it is.

With all due respect... there is no way "at age 4" he could remember "feeling like a female". There is no way for him to ever "feel like a female" because he doesn't know what a female feels like! More than likely, at age 4, he found he had a lot in common with females, nothing more nothing less.

I've been somewhat following this thread. When it was posted, I decided to stay away. Then, a couple days later, I started reading it.

ATS, you have disappointed me. I did NOT expect to read so many transphobic comments here.

Thank you for all the people who have defended Leelah and transgender people in general. I'm transgender myself and you guys give me hope that one day things will be better.

For the ones who are too ignorant and narrow-minded to accept different people: lots of individuals kill themselves because of this type of behaviour. Leelah was just one of MANY victims. If you cannot accept something that doesn't affect your life at all, maybe you should leave civilisation, since mutual respect is part of our society.

I do find hilarious (well, depressingly hilarious) that so many people are bothered by how I see myself. It's not like you know me, and I'm certainly not telling others to be like me. I'm just trying to be happy with myself, living my life in a peaceful way. If I'm doing that as a woman or as a man, what difference does it make to others?

Anyway, I have nothing more to say here. Thank you again for the people who accept me.

IS BEING TRANSGENDER A MENTAL ILLNESS. NO . . .

is being transgender a mental illness? No, but this remains a stereotype about transgender people. Gender Identity Disorder is listed in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual-4th Edition (DSM-IV), a guide used by mental health professionals to diagnose psychological conditions. Transgender identity is not a mental illness that can be cured with treatment. Rather, transgender people experience a persistent and authentic difference between our as- signed sex and our understanding of our own gender. For some people, this leads to emotional distress. This pain often can be relieved by freely expressing our genders, wearing clothing we are comfortable in, and, for some, making a physical transition from one gender to another. For people who identify as transsexual, counseling alone, without medical treatment, is often not effective. Our society is, however, very harsh on gender-variant people. Some transgender peo- ple have lost their families, their jobs, their homes and their support. Transgender chil- dren may be subject to abuse at home, at school or in their communities. A lifetime of this can be very challenging and can sometimes cause anxiety disorders, depression and other psychological illnesses. These are not the root of their transgender identity; rather, they are the side effects of society’s intolerance of transgender people.

transequality.org...

a reply to: WeAre0ne

4: If Joshua would have come to me for help, I would have helped him understand that he was not a female trapped in a male body. He was simply a male with a lot in common with females, and society brainwashed him into thinking he was a female because of what society expects males and females to behave like. It is completely ridiculous to think he was a female stuck in a male body. I would have showed him the truth about the transgender MYTH, and he would have probably stay alive too.

Like I said, he would have got the same kind of so-called help from you like he did from his close minded parents
The 'myth' is in your head, not his ....

Didn't work for his parents so I doubt it would have for you

With all due respect... there is no way "at age 4" he could remember "feeling like a female". There is no way for him to ever "feel like a female" because he doesn't know what a female feels like! More than likely, at age 4, he found he had a lot in common with females, nothing more nothing less.

Who are you to say what one can and can't remember at age 4?

You are just being argumentative there
Your opinion, not fact....you just don't want to believe the kid
Just like his parents

Because the whole transgender thing goes against your way of thinking
And what one does not understand, they fear
When one fears, one wants to run



“Nothing in life is to be feared, it is only to be understood. Now is the time to understand more, so that we may fear less.”
― Marie Curie

Oh, about the whole childhood thing?

When I was very young, I truly believed I'd be physically a man once I grew up. Until I was around eight, I kept getting into arguments with my grandmother, because she'd always tell me that "girls don't sit like that, girls don't do that, girls blah blah blah" and I'd go all "I'm not a girl, I don't want to be a girl, I want to be a boy".

I was ALWAYS like that.

a reply to: Annee

Let me be clear yet again...

I don't believe 'transgender' itself is a mental illness. In fact, I believe 'transgender' is not even a real thing. So it is the belief that one is 'transgender' that I believe is a mental illness, it is a psychosis. That is because 'transgender' doesn't even exist.

I believe 'transgender' is an imaginary label given to people who simply have a lot in common with the opposite sex, who behave and act like the opposite sex because those behaviors and actions are natural to them. I believe that because society labels things as feminine and masculine, and associates behaviors and actions as being feminine or masculine, this entire made up idea of being 'transgender' came into existence. If it wasn't for this false idea that behaviors or actions can determine if one is male or female, the false idea of being 'transgender' wouldn't exit.

However, because of society and culture, and because of this false idea that behaviors and actions should be classified and labeled as being feminine or masculine, this idiotic idea of being 'transgender' is brainwashing people into actually believing it is true. For some reason these people who believe this 'transgender' myth simply can't just accept the fact that they are the sex that their genitalia assure them they are, they just enjoy what the opposite sex enjoys.

To go so far as to believe you are physically stuck in the wrong body is even worse. It is definitely a psychosis, a mental illness.

a reply to: WeAre0ne

You have made it very clear you think Transgender is BS.

Study Says Brains of Gay Men and Women Are Similar

Researchers using brain scans have found new evidence that biology—and not environment—is at the core of sexual orientation. Scientists at the Stockholm Brain Institute in Sweden report in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences USA that gay men and straight women share similar traits—most notably in the size of their brains and the activity of the amygdala—an area of the brain tied to emotion, anxiety and aggression. The same is true for heterosexual men and lesbians. Study author, neurologist Ivanka Savic–Berglund, says such characteristics would develop in the womb or in early infancy, meaning that psychological or environmental factors played little or no role. "This is yet another in a long series of observations showing there's a biological reason for sexual orientation," says Dean Hamer, a molecular biologist at the National Institutes of Health (NIH), who was not involved in the study. "It's not just a reflection of people's behavior, nor is it a choice, nor is it something in their rearing environment. [The study] shows that it's something that people are born with." Previous studies have examined brain differences between gay and straight people on the basis of their responses to various tasks, such as rating the attractiveness of other people. The problem was that there was no way to determine whether their responses were colored by learned social cues. To get around this, Savic-Berglund focused on the structure and function of brain regions that develop during fetal development or early infancy—without using any cognitive tasks or rating systems. The researchers used MRIs to determine the volume and shapes of the brains of 90 volunteers—25 straight and 20 gay members of each sex. They found that the straight men and gay women had asymmetrical brains; that is, the cerebrum (the largest part of the brain, which is responsible for thought, sensory processing, movement and planning) was larger on the right hemisphere of the brain than on the left. In contrast, they found that women and gay men had symmetrical cerebrums. The team next used PET (positron emission tomography) scans to measure the blood flow to the amygdala, that part of the brain controlling emotion, fear and aggression. The images showed how the amygdala connects to other parts of the brain, giving them clues as to how this might influence behavior. They scanned subjects' brains when they at rest and did not show them photos or introduce other behavior that might have been learned. They found that in gay men and women, the blood flowed to areas involved in fear and anxiety, whereas in straight men and lesbians it tended to flow to pockets linked to aggression. Robert Epstein, emeritus director of the Cambridge Center for Behavioral Studies in Concord, Mass., agrees that the study offers compelling evidence that sexual orientation is a biologically fixed characteristic. But he cautions that these findings may vary in different people whose sexual orientation is not that clear-cut, which his own research shows includes a majority of the population.

www.scientificamerican.com...

a reply to: LukeDAP

So because of your grandmother's influence, she made you to believe you are transgender. Case in point. You're grandmother was wrong. Girls do sit like that, girl do do that... if you were a girl, and you were doing it, then girls do do it.

Your grandmother was most likely referring to manners and etiquette, and trying to raise you to be polite based on ideas formed by society and culture.. For example, in society it is generally not ok for woman to sit with her legs wide open. It is normally ideal for a woman to sit with her legs closed or crossed. This is not something genetics tells women to do. Women are often more comfortable not crossing their legs, because its natural.

If you have someone yelling at you saying "girls don't sit like that", its not because you are a boy trapped in a girls body. Its because society wants you to sit in a certain manner that is not natural.

I hate to say that you were brainwashed as a child, and your example seems mental in nature.

a reply to: Annee

You are confusing 'sexual orientation' and 'transgender'.

You fail.

I am not arguing about sexual orientation. I am arguing that transgender is not a real thing. It is simply an idea.

A man can have a brain identical to a woman's brain, no doubt. But that brain should never say "I am a female", because it is not.

a reply to: WeAre0ne

Thank you for letting me know how I feel and who I am. Continue being ignorant, offensive and transphobic. You're very good at it.

For anyone who doesn't get it, but is willing to understand: I hate my body. I hate having boobs. I hate having a vagina. I hate having delicate traces. I have my girly voice. I wish I didn't have boobs. I wish I had a penis. I wish I looked masculine. I wish my voice was manly. I wish I could grow a beard. I was not brainwashed into feeling like this. Ever since I was a child, I wanted to grow up and be a man. It's really that simple.

a reply to: snarky412

Failed parenting, failed society. Business as usual it seems. F#ing tragic though. RIP Leelah.

originally posted by: LukeDAP
a reply to: WeAre0ne

Thank you for letting me know how I feel and who I am. Continue being ignorant, offensive and transphobic. You're very good at it.

For anyone who doesn't get it, but is willing to understand: I hate my body. I hate having boobs. I hate having a vagina. I hate having delicate traces. I have my girly voice. I wish I didn't have boobs. I wish I had a penis. I wish I looked masculine. I wish my voice was manly. I wish I could grow a beard. I was not brainwashed into feeling like this. Ever since I was a child, I wanted to grow up and be a man. It's really that simple.

I'm not trying to be argumentative or judgmental. I sincerely want to understand what you're saying.

My perception of what you're saying is you would be happy if other people would accept you for not accepting yourself? Is that right?

You've listed all the things about yourself that you wish were different. Do you feel like this means you don't accept yourself? Would you like other people to just accept this without judging you?

For those who are interested.

The Ben Barres web story: www.webofstories.com...

Ben Barres is a Neurobiologist who began life as a woman. He is Transgender.

originally posted by: WeAre0ne
a reply to: Annee

You are confusing 'sexual orientation' and 'transgender'.

You fail.

I am not arguing about sexual orientation. I am arguing that transgender is not a real thing. It is simply an idea.

A man can have a brain identical to a woman's brain, no doubt. But that brain should never say "I am a female", because it is not.

No I'm not.

I'm saying there's more to the brain then you are willing to accept.

originally posted by: snarky412
Like I said, he would have got the same kind of so-called help from you like he did from his close minded parents
The 'myth' is in your head, not his ....

Didn't work for his parents so I doubt it would have for you

No I would NOT have given him the same help. I would have given him logic and truth. He is a male, end of story. He enjoys things considered feminine. End of story. He is not transgender, and transgender is not a real thing. End of story.

His want and need to have a female body is simply all in his mind. For some it is a phase. Others it is an obsession. Once he realizes that, he can better deal with it.

His parents would try to stop him. I wouldn't. I would let him do what he wants (after age 18). But I would definitely remind him that 'transgender' is not a real thing. Maybe it will get him to see the truth, that someone implanted the transgender idea in his head. I will remind him it is ok to be male, and enjoy what society considers feminine, and to be homosexual. Just because he does those things, doesn't mean he is transgender.

originally posted by: snarky412
Who are you to say what one can and can't remember at age 4?

I didn't say one can't remember age 4. I said he can't remember "feeling like a girl" at age 4, because there is no possible way for him to know what a girl feels like. It is a mental problem for him to assume he felt like a girl.

originally posted by: snarky412
You are just being argumentative there
Your opinion, not fact....you just don't want to believe the kid
Just like his parents

NOT TRUE. I believe the kid. I believe he felt like a girl. I also believe his feelings were influenced by society, and were of his imagination.

originally posted by: snarky412
Because the whole transgender thing goes against your way of thinking
And what one does not understand, they fear
When one fears, one wants to run

Oh please, don't even try to lump me in with all the ignorant bigots because I don't hold the same beliefs as you.

Transgender is not 'against my way of thinking'. I am sorry but you have me confused with the ignorant homophobes and transphobes, and Bible thumping idiots. I am different.

I simply believe transgender is not a real thing. I believe it is caused by society, culture, and depending how serious one is about it in the end is a mental illness.

I am quite fearless, thanks.

originally posted by: snarky412
“Nothing in life is to be feared, it is only to be understood. Now is the time to understand more, so that we may fear less.”
― Marie Curie

Yeah now practice what you preach!! How dare you sit here and tell me I fear something, then tell me its time to understand more. IT IS TIME FOR YOU TO UNDERSTAND MORE.

You sit here like a 'flat Earther' and settle with the idea that "oh this man was just born with a female brain", and then you shut down and don't go beyond that. You close your mind, and turn off. Then you have the gull to tell people to understand? That is pure ignorance.

Well I am going way beyond the idea that it is just a man with female brain, and I am pin-pointing the root cause of this issue, and I have found it. In the end it all comes down to society and culture, and their influence on the mind inducing a psychosis...a mental illness. Sure his brain is formed more like a female, but the difference between male and female brains doesn't affect their BELIEFS.

You want people to just "accept" what you tell them, and not go any deeper? You really wanted his parents to just let him cut his genitalia off and get a sex change at age 16 before their mind has any time to fully mature and make any rational decisions? That's worse than a parent letting their 16 year old girl get a tattoo of Justin Beiber on their arm...

---

Some of you people are so black and white, and you have somehow fooled yourself into thinking you see shades of gray.

You have managed to lump me into the same group of ignorant bigots simply because I don't just 'accept' this silly transgender myth, so you assume I am just another Bible thumper. No way can I possibly be a reasonable, logical, scientific person that just so happens to not agree with accepted theory and delve deeper into the root cause.

originally posted by: Jamie1
I'm not trying to be argumentative or judgmental. I sincerely want to understand what you're saying.

My perception of what you're saying is you would be happy if other people would accept you for not accepting yourself? Is that right?

You've listed all the things about yourself that you wish were different. Do you feel like this means you don't accept yourself? Would you like other people to just accept this without judging you?

I accept myself. I don't identify with my body, which is something very complicated, but I accept that about myself. Changing those things and being who I want to be, who I feel like I should be, would make me happy. Whether or not people can accept that makes no difference to me. Just don't tell me how I should feel about it or that it's mental sickness. People can believe whatever they want to, that doesn't mean they're allowed to offend me.

Also, about your last sentence, I don't get why people should be judging me? As far as I know, I have not committed any crime. I don't understand how my feelings about my body should be judged. If someone is overweight and decides to have a stomach surgery to lose weight, should they be judged too? From where I stand, they didn't like something about themselves and decided to change that. Should we tell them that they should've "accepted themselves" and judge them for not doing that?

And again, what difference does it make? If I went out tomorrow to buy menstrual pads, would it affect you? Instead of doing that, if I were to go to the hospital to get an injection of testosterone, would that affect you?

originally posted by: Annee
No I'm not.

I'm saying there's more to the brain then you are willing to accept.

Please do tell what I am not willing to accept. Be precise, instead of just throwing out blind accusations without any proof.

As far as I can tell, I have been willing to accept anything and everything. You keep telling me there is more to the brain... and I keep telling you it doesn't matter if the brain was transplanted from a female body to a male body at birth (or doesn't have a body at all), it all comes down to culture and society. A brain doesn't identify it is male or female by itself.

I have gone to the worse case scenario (female brain transplanted into a male body, or no body at all), and you don't seem to be able to comprehend such a thought experiment, so you lash out at me, and lump me in with other bigots you just psychologically feel the need to hate.

In the end, what has happened here is that I have come forth with a very detail explanation of the cultural and societal affects on the human brain, and pinpointed the root cause of this transgender myth. And you all have assumed I am some hater.

I think a few of you have mental issues of your own.

originally posted by: Klassified
a reply to: defuntion

You're right. I do not know you. My apologies for the smug remark if that is not the case, but it came across to me that way.

Thank you.

I hope you understand that my point of view comes from being left behind at a young age.

I can never accept suicide as compensation for any set of circumstances..

It doesn't just kill the person who does said act. It kills part of everyone that is close.


And, I truly feel for this young girl trapped in the boy's body.. I really do.

There were other options.

That said, the parents are responsible for this tragedy. They should have loved and supported their child.

Society is not at fault.

That is all I am trying to convey..

originally posted by: Spiramirabilis
a reply to: Jamie1

Just become aware of when you're feeling any "negative" emotional state to know that emotion is being caused by a story you're telling yourself, not the facts. Start by just asking yourself, "Is that a story or a fact?" when you become aware of how you're perceiving things. 

If you've already mentioned this I apologize, but I'm wondering - when you meet someone who is tormented, and that person is either gay or transgender, do you consider this to be a story they tell themselves or a fact they should embrace?

Great question.

The last couple I worked with was a gay couple who were married for 20 years. I have so much love for them just thinking about them. They are truly special souls.

I never thought about their gayness when I worked with them. It wasn't an issue. The torment came because one of them was super stressed out about her career and what direction she wanted to take her life. Her partner was so strong and supportive.

All I did was help the one woman see that her entire stress was being caused by the stories she was telling herself, and to focus on what she really wanted, which was to feel secure. Her partner then took her by the hands and stared so intently into her eyes, just beaming unconditional love to her. They both started crying. Heck, I'm starting to cry just thinking about it.

Anyway...

The young girl I worked with who was going to kill herself is gay, and could be transgender. I'm not sure. I never asked her.

All I do is ask why somebody is hurting emotionally. What's they believe is the source of their pain. It's always a story they're telling themselves about why they can't be happy.

I never tell them to change the story. I just help them become aware of the story by repeating back what they tell me. Then I ask them, "Is that a story, or a fact?"

I let them decide. In the case of this young girl it was a fact she preferred girls. Her sexual orientation is gay. Her stories were all about her dad not accepting her. Luckily, I had already worked with him for a few months. I got him to be aware of the stories that were causing him pain.

Once people see that it's the story that's causing them pain, and they see that they have two clear choices - one pain, and one not pain, they always choose not pain.

The only reason they were in pain before is because they didn't see that they had a choice.

I'm guessing now....

If I had an opportunity to talk with a tormented transgender, I would help them see what was causing them pain. What story.

In Leelah's case, her suicide note described all her stories. Obviously, any belief about the future is a story. It hasn't happened yet. It's just a perception.

Her self-identification had nothing to do with her suicide. It was her beliefs about what it meant to be transgender had everything to do with it.

I would have asked her about her beliefs. "Is it a fact or a story that you'll never have enough friends?" "Is it a fact or story that you'll never have enough love?" "Is it a fact or story that you'll always be alone, and that you'll never find a man to love you?"

The real secret is finding out what somebody really cares about. I would have asked her what or who she cares about. Maybe, "Will you be able to help other transgender kids more, or less, if you die now, of if you live to be 80?"

It's not up to me to tell somebody what's a fact or story. It's up to me to show them how stories are what cause their pain, and for them, once they realize this, to decide whether they'd rather keep the story and the pain that goes with it, or be happy.

Everybody chooses happy once they understand how simple it is.