'Fix Society': Transgender Teen Posted Plea Before Suicide

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: BomSquad

The parents should have gone to therapists that would understand better what this teenager was going through, but I don't believe that they were wrong in making the youngster wait until they could legally make the decision for themselves.

Yes they should have found the proper therapist. And yes they were wrong in making their "son" wait until "he" was 18.


If they had researched Transgender, they would have known that. They would have known "he" needed hormone blockers as early as possible to prevent the effects of testosterone.

What they did was take his laptop away from "him" because "he" was researching INAPPROPRIATE information. Then forced him into Christian counseling.

Now there are petitions to charge the parents with murder, because they forced their "son" into Faith Healing, instead of getting him proper medical help.

Some may scoff at this, but other parents have been charged with denying their children proper medical care and forcing them into Faith Healing.

Facts and beliefs are shown in different colors from this post.

Can you tell which is which?

Can you tell which would cause an emotional response?

originally posted by: Lynk3
a reply to: snarky412

I support the LBGT crowd, and I'm probably going to get a lot of hate for saying this, but why can't people just accept who they are and what they have in life? Why do people always want to be something other than what they're meant to be, and why do they they always what more in life, and want what they can't have?

I understand some people are born with different brain chemistry, but it makes no sense to me. However, I am not one to judge another's decisions in life, and I accept and support all people for what they are. I guess I just can't see in their world because different perspective comes into play.

In the same sense Lynk3 you can ask why the world can't just accept people for who they are ie transgender? It obviously makes no sense to you because (I assume by your comments) you are happy and content being straight.

You ask why people 'can't just accept who they are' but in asking this very question of them you are not allowing them to be who they are simply due to society's demands for a status quo.

You're contradicting yourself there but most importantly why do you care? Let people be who they are do what they want act how they act...as long as they are harming no one in the process, what is the harm?

Sexuality is very fluid and it has always been this way, historically for eg men dressed as women and we had cross gender relationships.

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: Taupin Desciple
a reply to: Annee

So her parents kept her away, physically and technically, from the very society that was shunning her? Sounds like they were doing her a favor and neither her nor her parents saw that.

And neither do you I guess.

You are clueless.

She didn't have a problem at school.

Have you read her suicide note? Where she talks about her friends not giving a sh*t about her and her feeling even lonelier than ever due to this?

Although I believe her parents definitely did not handle her situation effectively it is clear that the issue is one of acceptance from ALL of society and that includes school friends.

This story cuts deep, man. My boyfriend and I talked about this the other day, and he could not understand why I got so upset about it. He kept saying, "I don't understand why HE wanted to be female. If he wanted to be gay, he could just be gay." And "Why can't he just accept himself for what he is?" I wanted to punch him. I had to explain to him that sexuality has nothing to do with gender. And that there are MTF who like girls, not guys. And there are FTM that like guys, no girls. And that the better question is "Why can't society accept these people?"

Facts are, some people will never understand it until they see it unfold in front of them. He will likely not understand until he either has a friend in that situation or if one day we have a child in that situation.


I just don't get it, why would someone rather have a dead child than a happy child? If you can think of any time that you wouldn't love your child, you probably shouldn't be having children. I'm disgusted with this girls family, and I hope she's finally at peace.

a reply to: BomSquad

Waiting until you are an adult and your brain is fully developed is not an undo burden when making such permanent life changing choice. It's not like you are deciding to change careers, you are changing your physical identity for life.

It was only in the 1900s that the christian settlers, quakers and others decided that adulthood should be this specific time, and it evolved further to this idea of teen hood, but, for thousands of years a brain was "fully developed" as soon as a women bled between her legs and a boy changed his voice and sounded like a man.

I think research shows that the majority of people with gender identity issues do not change their mind down the road,and they go to pretty great lengths to weed out people that are merely "going through a phase"", a lot of people seem to be putting everything into their own perspective, "Well I thought xyz when I was a teen so therefore no teens know anything concrete at that age" as if its impossible to have any insight about yourself because of a certain age limit.

For others the world is exactly the same at 10 as it is at 15 as it is at 20. And no matter how many more years you tack on nothings going to change. The more sheltered someone is the more of a revelation they are going to have growing up, its really really simple.

originally posted by: daftpink

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: Taupin Desciple
a reply to: Annee

So her parents kept her away, physically and technically, from the very society that was shunning her? Sounds like they were doing her a favor and neither her nor her parents saw that.

And neither do you I guess.

You are clueless.

She didn't have a problem at school.

Have you read her suicide note? Where she talks about her friends not giving a sh*t about her and her feeling even lonelier than ever due to this?

Although I believe her parents definitely did not handle her situation effectively it is clear that the issue is one of acceptance from ALL of society and that includes school friends.

It is completely unrealistic to expect EVErYONE to accept ANYTHING!! We can expect for groups not to team up and bully children. But it's completely illogical to expect ANYONE to never be bullied. It's a part of growing up and has been for all of human history. That said we as adults should definatly step in if it gets physical or a mob mentality singles out one kid. But those who think everyone should just accept LGBT's your nuts. Everyone doesn't accept red heads lmao!!


Learning to deal with bullies and adversity are part of childhood. LGBT's don't get a magic free pass. Why should they? Whites don't get a pass, blacks don't get a pass, skinny kids, fat kids, short kids, ugly kids, dumb kids all get screwed with in school.


I don't know, it just seems like some expect a completely unrealistic goal to be met. That LGBT's shouldn't only get a fair shake, but should be protected above all other social groups.

Straight kids commit suicide as well because of being bullied and no one thinks the world should be focefully made to accept them...

originally posted by: boncho
a reply to: BomSquad

Waiting until you are an adult and your brain is fully developed is not an undo burden when making such permanent life changing choice. It's not like you are deciding to change careers, you are changing your physical identity for life.

It was only in the 1900s that the christian settlers, quakers and others decided that adulthood should be this specific time, and it evolved further to this idea of teen hood, but, for thousands of years a brain was "fully developed" as soon as a women bled between her legs and a boy changed his voice and sounded like a man.

I think research shows that the majority of people with gender identity issues do not change their mind down the road,and they go to pretty great lengths to weed out people that are merely "going through a phase"", a lot of people seem to be putting everything into their own perspective, "Well I thought xyz when I was a teen so therefore no teens know anything concrete at that age" as if its impossible to have any insight about yourself because of a certain age limit.

For others the world is exactly the same at 10 as it is at 15 as it is at 20. And no matter how many more years you tack on nothings going to change. The more sheltered someone is the more of a revelation they are going to have growing up, its really really simple.

Yea but now we have science and know your brain isn't fully developed until late teens. That's a very valid point... You can't have crazy life changing surgeries on the word of an 8 year old.. That's crazy....

originally posted by: boncho
a reply to: BomSquad

Waiting until you are an adult and your brain is fully developed is not an undo burden when making such permanent life changing choice. It's not like you are deciding to change careers, you are changing your physical identity for life.

It was only in the 1900s that the christian settlers, quakers and others decided that adulthood should be this specific time, and it evolved further to this idea of teen hood, but, for thousands of years a brain was "fully developed" as soon as a women bled between her legs and a boy changed his voice and sounded like a man.

I think research shows that the majority of people with gender identity issues do not change their mind down the road,and they go to pretty great lengths to weed out people that are merely "going through a phase"", a lot of people seem to be putting everything into their own perspective, "Well I thought xyz when I was a teen so therefore no teens know anything concrete at that age" as if its impossible to have any insight about yourself because of a certain age limit.

For others the world is exactly the same at 10 as it is at 15 as it is at 20. And no matter how many more years you tack on nothings going to change. The more sheltered someone is the more of a revelation they are going to have growing up, its really really simple.

And no the world is not the same at 10 as at 15 or at 20 or at 49. We make constant changes through out the milestones of our life!! I'm down with the fact that some one can be born mentally wired to be a girl, but with the body of a boy. That said until science can scan your brain to know for sure there is no way we should be performing sex changes on preteens that's NUTS!!!

originally posted by: defuntion

I really do like your perception. I wish I could share it...

Exactly! I'm raising grandchildren now. One is a 15 year old girl. Emotions on steroids. This "black & white" textbook rhetoric is like Blah! Blah! Blah! to her ----- not that we don't use it.

She just wants us to be there for support ---- when SHE has something to share with us. She has no interest in what we have to say.

We started when she was just 3 years old making her sit on a stool, if she had a meltdown, and not allowed off until she talked and got out what was going on in her head. You know what the tricky part is? Keep your own mouth shut and just listen. As a parent you need to just shut up and listen first.

She got into trouble when she was about 12. She tried to pull Peer Pressure on me. Not allowed. It's Personal Responsibility - ONLY. And Guilt By Association.

We put her in counseling several times, not that she was gonna talk to them, but that we were supporting her need of knowing we cared enough to do it.

Teenagers are just a different breed. They want you there for support -- period.

Leelah's parents IMO were good loving parents, up to a point. She trusted them, she went openly to them ----- and they "shot her down", they "slammed the door shut". She was no longer what THEY wanted or accepted her to be. She wasn't on drugs. She wasn't violent. She wasn't doing illegal stuff. She was "gender different".

They did not Shut Their Mouth and Listen.

originally posted by: Entreri06

originally posted by: daftpink

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: Taupin Desciple
a reply to: Annee

So her parents kept her away, physically and technically, from the very society that was shunning her? Sounds like they were doing her a favor and neither her nor her parents saw that.

And neither do you I guess.

You are clueless.

She didn't have a problem at school.

Have you read her suicide note? Where she talks about her friends not giving a sh*t about her and her feeling even lonelier than ever due to this?

Although I believe her parents definitely did not handle her situation effectively it is clear that the issue is one of acceptance from ALL of society and that includes school friends.

It is completely unrealistic to expect EVErYONE to accept ANYTHING!! We can expect for groups not to team up and bully children. But it's completely illogical to expect ANYONE to never be bullied. It's a part of growing up and has been for all of human history. That said we as adults should definatly step in if it gets physical or a mob mentality singles out one kid. But those who think everyone should just accept LGBT's your nuts. Everyone doesn't accept red heads lmao!!


Learning to deal with bullies and adversity are part of childhood. LGBT's don't get a magic free pass. Why should they? Whites don't get a pass, blacks don't get a pass, skinny kids, fat kids, short kids, ugly kids, dumb kids all get screwed with in school.


I don't know, it just seems like some expect a completely unrealistic goal to be met. That LGBT's shouldn't only get a fair shake, but should be protected above all other social groups.

Straight kids commit suicide as well because of being bullied and no one thinks the world should be focefully made to accept them...

Hmm I'd really hate to live where you do, where apparently red heads aren't 'accepted'?!? Have never in my life met anyone who does not accept someone for having red hair.

Don't know about you but i expect society to accept everyone as individuals.

My kids attend a very mixed culture school where they are taught the opposite of your words.

This isn't just about LGBT. It's about society accepting ALL people, being tolerant of people despite your own or their beliefs. Isn't that what you teach your kids?

originally posted by: daftpink

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: Taupin Desciple
a reply to: Annee

So her parents kept her away, physically and technically, from the very society that was shunning her? Sounds like they were doing her a favor and neither her nor her parents saw that.

And neither do you I guess.

You are clueless.

She didn't have a problem at school.

Have you read her suicide note? Where she talks about her friends not giving a sh*t about her and her feeling even lonelier than ever due to this?

Although I believe her parents definitely did not handle her situation effectively it is clear that the issue is one of acceptance from ALL of society and that includes school friends.

Did you read the other posts where she was well liked and accepted at school. Can you find something that says she was bullied?

Her parents pulled her out of school. They took away her laptop and phone for 5 months.

Teens are in the moment. She's gone for 5 months. Kind of out of site, out of mind

I'd be lonely too. I do not attribute this to her being transgender.

"They took me out of public school, took away my phone and computer, and wouldn't let me on social media websites, so I was out of contact with any of my friends. I was like this for 5 months, completely and utterly alone. I wasn't allowed to talk to anyone outside of church and I wasn't allowed to be with any of my friends, I just had to stay in my house and be quiet."

I'm going to get a lot of hate for this, here is your reality wake up call. If your born a man you will never be a woman, even after cosmetic surgery. Same thing for a woman wanting to be a man. You will make yourself a neuter and your destroying your body. That is called MENTAL ILLNESS. What would you say to someone who felt that having arms and legs was disgusting and wanted to have them surgiclly removed to "FEEL" normal. You would say hes crazy, you would be correct. Its called mental illness. Peoples common sense has really hit bottom these days. Acceptance isnt mandatory for society its called animal instinct and people know when they see something not normal and people react to it. Making yourself a neuter means you will never have acceptance and the sane 60% of normal humanity will think your a strange person and they will judge you accordingly. You will never have a normal relationship because you have made yourself a neuter. Is it sad? Yeah, what worse form of hell do you think could possibly be worse than this. Accept them if you want for pity sake but don't tell me its normal because that's incorrect and delusional. Those operations should be illegal in my opinion. They should be sent to a psych ward to find help. Sometimes people are just mentally ill accept it. Very sad this kid did this.

a reply to: Jamie1

Really don't care.

Teens are ALL emotion. You want to force logic where logic doesn't exist.

originally posted by: Lyxdeslic
This story cuts deep, man. My boyfriend and I talked about this the other day, and he could not understand why I got so upset about it. He kept saying, "I don't understand why HE wanted to be female. If he wanted to be gay, he could just be gay." And "Why can't he just accept himself for what he is?" I wanted to punch him. I had to explain to him that sexuality has nothing to do with gender. And that there are MTF who like girls, not guys. And there are FTM that like guys, no girls. And that the better question is "Why can't society accept these people?"

Facts are, some people will never understand it until they see it unfold in front of them. He will likely not understand until he either has a friend in that situation or if one day we have a child in that situation.


I just don't get it, why would someone rather have a dead child than a happy child? If you can think of any time that you wouldn't love your child, you probably shouldn't be having children. I'm disgusted with this girls family, and I hope she's finally at peace.

I'm intrigued by the paradox in your post.

You want people to accept other people, but when your boyfriend had a different perspective, you wanted to punch him.

Aren't you condemning the parents for the exact same thing? Accepting somebody doesn't mean becoming angry when a person is different than you, right?

originally posted by: Annee
a reply to: Jamie1

Really don't care.

Teens are ALL emotion. You want to force logic where logic doesn't exist.

This isn't about logic. It's about having the awareness of what are facts, and what are the stories you're telling about the facts.

Some people love their stories so much they won't let them go. Their stories become a huge part of their identity.

I've seen enough of your posts to see that one of your primary stories is how you label teens and their emotions.

Teens are NOT ALL emotions. Otherwise they couldn't pass a math test.

Teens are very smart, and often have fewer stories ingrained in them than adults. They are much easier to help because they are much more willing to learn new things.

Simple question re Leelah:

Is it a fact or story that she would have been happy if her parents accommodated everything she wanted?

originally posted by: Jamie1

originally posted by: Lyxdeslic
This story cuts deep, man. My boyfriend and I talked about this the other day, and he could not understand why I got so upset about it. He kept saying, "I don't understand why HE wanted to be female. If he wanted to be gay, he could just be gay." And "Why can't he just accept himself for what he is?" I wanted to punch him. I had to explain to him that sexuality has nothing to do with gender. And that there are MTF who like girls, not guys. And there are FTM that like guys, no girls. And that the better question is "Why can't society accept these people?"

Facts are, some people will never understand it until they see it unfold in front of them. He will likely not understand until he either has a friend in that situation or if one day we have a child in that situation.


I just don't get it, why would someone rather have a dead child than a happy child? If you can think of any time that you wouldn't love your child, you probably shouldn't be having children. I'm disgusted with this girls family, and I hope she's finally at peace.

I'm intrigued by the paradox in your post.

You want people to accept other people, but when your boyfriend had a different perspective, you wanted to punch him.

Aren't you condemning the parents for the exact same thing? Accepting somebody doesn't mean becoming angry when a person is different than you, right?

The difference is I love and accept him. His opinions are just differing than mine. You can have differing opinions and still accept someone. Who knew, right? Leelah's parents could have disagreed with her actions and wants but still accepted her as a human being. Parents do it all the time. For example, my younger siblings biological dad is on the sex offenders list. He's been to jail multiple times, and burned bridges with that vast majority of people who were in his life. His mother does not agree with what he's done. However she accepts him as the person he has become. She treats him differently for it. But she accepts him, loves him, and does things for him... Even though he doesn't deserve it.

People need to learn unconditional love. You may not like someone because of their choices, but that doesn't mean you don't love them. I used to work at a daycare. When kids misbehaved we put them in time out. in my 'classroom' after a child got out of time out, we talked. I explained to them that I did not love their actions, but I still love them. That's the way it should be with all things, and all people. You might not care for their choices, beliefs or actions, but you should still care about them.

a reply to: Jamie1

That was a decent post

But, not really an answer to my question

:-)

originally posted by: Jamie1

Simple question re Leelah:

Is it a fact or story that she would have been happy if her parents accommodated everything she wanted?

Really? You're seriously gonna ask me if a teenager should be given everything they want?

Like I said ---- everything with you is black and white.

originally posted by: daftpink

originally posted by: Entreri06

originally posted by: daftpink

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: Taupin Desciple
a reply to: Annee

So her parents kept her away, physically and technically, from the very society that was shunning her? Sounds like they were doing her a favor and neither her nor her parents saw that.

And neither do you I guess.

You are clueless.

She didn't have a problem at school.

Have you read her suicide note? Where she talks about her friends not giving a sh*t about her and her feeling even lonelier than ever due to this?

Although I believe her parents definitely did not handle her situation effectively it is clear that the issue is one of acceptance from ALL of society and that includes school friends.

It is completely unrealistic to expect EVErYONE to accept ANYTHING!! We can expect for groups not to team up and bully children. But it's completely illogical to expect ANYONE to never be bullied. It's a part of growing up and has been for all of human history. That said we as adults should definatly step in if it gets physical or a mob mentality singles out one kid. But those who think everyone should just accept LGBT's your nuts. Everyone doesn't accept red heads lmao!!


Learning to deal with bullies and adversity are part of childhood. LGBT's don't get a magic free pass. Why should they? Whites don't get a pass, blacks don't get a pass, skinny kids, fat kids, short kids, ugly kids, dumb kids all get screwed with in school.


I don't know, it just seems like some expect a completely unrealistic goal to be met. That LGBT's shouldn't only get a fair shake, but should be protected above all other social groups.

Straight kids commit suicide as well because of being bullied and no one thinks the world should be focefully made to accept them...

Hmm I'd really hate to live where you do, where apparently red heads aren't 'accepted'?!? Have never in my life met anyone who does not accept someone for having red hair.

Don't know about you but i expect society to accept everyone as individuals.

My kids attend a very mixed culture school where they are taught the opposite of your words.

This isn't just about LGBT. It's about society accepting ALL people, being tolerant of people despite your own or their beliefs. Isn't that what you teach your kids?

Red head kids didn't catch some hell in school where you grew up? Aka gingers or fire crotches?? Kids don't need a valid reason to pick on some one. They will take whatever they can get.

I guess I should reiterate that I think taking her/him to a Christian theropist was borderline child abuse. The same as the sickos who try and faith heal there sick child. I just don't wanna get lumped into a "conservative evangelical" group. Once he was 21 if he still wanted a sex change, awsome.

My main point are:

1: the parents knew or should have known what they would be doing to there kid by going to a Christian theropist instead of a real medical professional.

2: we should not be doing sex changes on children or introducing hormone therapy. It's just too invasive for a child to make that call.


3: Everyone doesn't accept anything. We can stop kids from being physically assaulted and from them being ganged up on by "the mob". We cannot stop ANY kid from being offended or made fun of in single instances.

originally posted by: Entreri06
2: we should not be doing sex changes on children or introducing hormone therapy. It's just too invasive for a child to make that call.

Hormone blockers have shown no sign of lasting effects (to date). When a person chooses to stop them, their normal body production kicks in.

Most children seem to know if they are transgender, even if they are not sure what it is. They need to be in a treatment program as early as possible. Treatment means counseling and medical support. No doctor is gonna just hand out hormone blockers.

Early "diagnosis" and treatment helps the child with self esteem and acceptance ---- until they are at a more mature age that they can make decisions for themselves.

Everyone is different. Not all transgenders are going to choose surgery. But, the hormone blockers prevent the development of breasts and the effects of testosterone. Which does make it easier and less invasive.

BTW: there are camps for Trans-Kids starting as young as 8: www.camparanutiq.org...