'Fix Society': Transgender Teen Posted Plea Before Suicide

originally posted by: defuntion

originally posted by: Klassified
a reply to: defuntion

You're right. I do not know you. My apologies for the smug remark if that is not the case, but it came across to me that way.

Thank you.

I hope you understand that my point of view comes from being left behind at a young age.

I can never accept suicide as compensation for any set of circumstances..

It doesn't just kill the person who does said act. It kills part of everyone that is close.


And, I truly feel for this young girl trapped in the boy's body.. I really do.

There were other options.

That said, the parents are responsible for this tragedy. They should have loved and supported their child.

Society is not at fault.

That is all I am trying to convey..

Did you read the suicide note?

Leelah believed she would never have enough friends, or never have enough love.

How can you say that she wouldn't have still killed herself no matter what her parents did?

You just described how suicide can devastate those close to the person who died, and then you perpetuate a false belief that the survivors are the ones who are to blame.

Leelah is dead because she decided to walk in front of a truck. That's a fact.

Everything else is speculation. A story. "Would of's" and "Could of's" are nothing more than mental masturbation.

How can we help other people going forward? By being loving and compassionate to everybody, unconditionally.

Blame is always a story. When you're loving somebody, you can't be judging them or blaming them.

originally posted by: LukeDAP
Thank you for letting me know how I feel and who I am. Continue being ignorant, offensive and transphobic. You're very good at it.

Your insult has been reported to the admins.

Just to be clear. I am not 'letting you know how you feel and who you are'. So you can stop with that BS. In fact, I didn't even mention that, or even come close to implying that. You made a personal statement about your childhood and your grandmother, and I made a statement / observation based on your statement. Nothing more nothing less.

My new observation is that you are psychologically attracted to the idea that you are always the victim, and everyone hates you, or doesn't agree with your life style, so you project that psychological issue of yours onto everyone you communicate with.

You have managed to call me 'transphobic' when I have not said anything negative against transgender people in this entire topic. Implying that transgender is not a real thing, and its root cause is a societal and culturally induced psychosis is not an insult, nor is it a bad thing. It is an observation.

I have nothing against people who believe they are 'transgenders'. Nor do I care what they believe. To call me ignorant on top of that is just plain ignorant.

originally posted by: LukeDAP
For anyone who doesn't get it, but is willing to understand: I hate my body. I hate having boobs. I hate having a vagina. I hate having delicate traces. I have my girly voice. I wish I didn't have boobs. I wish I had a penis. I wish I looked masculine. I wish my voice was manly. I wish I could grow a beard. I was not brainwashed into feeling like this. Ever since I was a child, I wanted to grow up and be a man. It's really that simple.

Sorry, but what you just described is a mental illness. It sounds a lot like body dysmorphic disorder because you are focusing more on your body...

en.wikipedia.org...

Since most of your dissatisfaction with yourself revolves around masculinity, I think it has caused you to believe the transgender myth.

I would really like to know more about this "wishing you had male genitalia". It makes me very intrigued. I can't seem to understand how anyone could wish such a thing, or what thoughts or ideas they have in their mind that would cause them to want it. Surely you must base this obsession on sexual fantasies? Otherwise, I don't seen how someone could want something that has no other real use.

a reply to: WeAre0ne

Well I am going way beyond the idea that it is just a man with female brain, and I am pin-pointing the root cause of this issue, and I have found it.

Oh really??? Hmmm, that's interesting

Maybe you ought to tell that to the the researchers who study Transgenders and their genes/brains for a living, doing studies



And if anyone is narrow-minded, that would be you, wanting everyone to believe your way

I on the other hand am open to ALL theories, not just yours
What is wrong with wanting to know more about it? Nothing

There is no one exclusive cause for it as you would have us believe

That's why many papers have been written on it with varying theories and still are to this day
Because scientists are trying to better understand it
It's an on going process, not one that is solved over night

Why is it so hard for you to accept that there maybe other circumstances that cause one to be transgender?

But I would definitely remind him that 'transgender' is not a real thing. Maybe it will get him to see the truth, that someone implanted the transgender idea in his head. I will remind him it is ok to be male, and enjoy what society considers feminine, and to be homosexual. Just because he does those things, doesn't mean he is transgender.

Pretty sure that was along the lines of what his parents said too, hence the therapist



** And for the record, I have never ever called any one a bigot, so don't say I have **

originally posted by: snarky412
Oh really??? Hmmm, that's interesting

Maybe you ought to tell that to the the researchers who study Transgenders and their genes/brains for a living, doing studies

How do you know I haven't? How do you know I haven't studied this for years? You don't know anything about me, or my level of understanding about this subject. For all you know I am one of those researchers who studies genes and brains for a living.

originally posted by: snarky412
And if anyone is narrow-minded, that would be you, wanting everyone to believe your way

Sorry, I can care less what you believe. So I guess that makes you narrow minded for assuming I care what you believe, and I can't possibly be someone who doesn't care.

I will no longer speak to you now. You have wasted my time.

a reply to: Lynk3

why can't people just accept who they are and what they have in life? Why do people always want to be something other than what they're meant to be, and why do they they always what more in life, and want what they can't have? I understand some people are born with different brain chemistry, but it makes no sense to me. However, I am not one to judge another's decisions in life, and I accept and support all people for what they are. I guess I just can't see in their world because different perspective comes into play.

I am 21 years old and female. I am also bisexual. From about the age of maybe 5 or 6 to 17 I believed wholeheartedly that I was meant to be born a male. I was so uncomfortable in my body and was attracted to females more than males. I was more tomboy than girly and a huge daddy's girl mainly because I looked and acted just like my father. The Page genes are very dominant, lol.

The point of my reply is to say that I had to accept who I was and who I am. I was born a female. Even though I felt like I should've been male I AM A female. It took a long time for me to realize that I am beautiful the way I am even though I still have doubts but isn't that anyone?

I agree with you. People have to come to terms with who they are. If they can't do that then they can never be happy.

On the other hand, if they truly believe that the only way they can be happy is to change who they are by getting a sex change then more power to them. I have no problem accepting whatever decision they make. I am no judge.

To the thread in general. I feel like a lot of the blame should go to the parents of this poor child, Leelah. Just the acceptance and approval of her parents could have made her life so much easier. Not only was she getting shunned by her peer but by her parents as well!? That's just so sad and disappointing!! Being a parent myself I could never understand how they could put their child through such pain. Yea, I understand that it would be hard to accept that their son would want to be a woman, but it's YOUR CHILD for crying out loud!

Just really disappoints me...

a reply to: WeAre0ne

How do you know I haven't? How do you know I haven't studied this for years? You don't know anything about me, or my level of understanding about this subject. For all you know I am one of those researchers who studies genes and brains for a living.

Probably because you aren't very 'scientific' sounding

Sorry, I can care less what you believe. So I guess that makes you narrow minded for assuming I care what you believe, and I can't possibly be someone who doesn't care.

I never said believe me, all I was trying to do was open your eyes to other theories that real scientists are working on
My bad if you took it personally

Another way to show you are not a real scientist, you don't interpret words & meanings very well

I will no longer speak to you now. You have wasted my time

Quite the attitude for a 'researcher'

And BTW, the feeling is mutual

originally posted by: PageLC14


To the thread in general. I feel like a lot of the blame should go to the parents of this poor child, Leelah. Just the acceptance and approval of her parents could have made her life so much easier. Not only was she getting shunned by her peer but by her parents as well!? That's just so sad and disappointing!! Being a parent myself I could never understand how they could put their child through such pain. Yea, I understand that it would be hard to accept that their son would want to be a woman, but it's YOUR CHILD for crying out loud!

Just really disappoints me...

Why do you feel the need to manufacture blame?

Leelah is dead because Leelah made the choice to die. That was her decision.

a reply to: Jamie1

Why do you feel the need to manufacture blame? Leelah is dead because Leelah made the choice to die. That was her decision.

Yes. It was her decision. But there is ALWAYS a reason behind that kind of decision. Something that pushed them to do it. In Leelah's case, I believe that if her parents would have supported her in some way it would have helped.

ETA: She was 17!!! So young. She didnt know anything about the real world. And who is to blame for that?? Not her that's for sure. It's the parents' job to teach their children how to make decisions that better their future. obviously, her parents failed at that like most do these days.

a reply to: snarky412


Really nice of him (yes him) to possibly destroy someone elses life or worse by walking into traffic.

Shame the parents weren't much help but I also feel there's a large degree of narcissistic decadence in so many of these transgender stories. A few centuries ago few people had the time to ponder such meaningless nonsense in their lives. We were a better people when we had survival on the brain more, and personal fell-good bullsh!t less.

"They would say things like 'You'll never be a real girl,' or 'What're you going to do, f**k boys?' or 'God's going to send you straight to hell.' These all made me feel awful about myself, I was christian at the time so I thought that God hated me and that I didn't deserve to be alive. I cut myself at least once every couple days, and I was constantly thinking about suicide."

a reply to: PageLC14

Thanks for your reply, and telling us your experience.

What I have gathered from your post is that your thoughts and feelings from age 5 to 17 where all in the mind. It took you some time to mature, and accept what you have been born with, but in the end your mind prevailed, and you mentally matured.

What I don't fully understand is the comments you made about Joshua's (Leelah) parents. You see, Joshua wanted his parents to allow him to start a sex change at age 16... Any and all rational people / parents would know that a teenager often makes irrational decisions, and is not mature enough to have any reasonable forethought. A sex change at age 16 seems highly unreasonable. So they didn't allow him to do so, and took even more action, and attempted to prevent him from pursing said desires in hopes that his mind will mature over time (much like your mind has matured). Is that really so wrong?

I don't agree with every action his parents took, but I don't understand why people feel it is so wrong for his parents to do what they did. He was a kid who wanted to have a sex change! He wasn't even legally allowed to vote, or make any adult decisions without his parents consent. He was still legally a juvenile, and according to society, too young to make any adult decisions. Yet you expect his parents to just let him decide to cut his genitals off?

As most of you would agree, this whole 'transgender' issue is not cut and dry, and the scientific data behind it is still being studied. Yet some of you people expect his parents to just accept it as a genetic variation, and let him be the way he is? Obviously being 'transgender' is not easy in this society, so it could be considered a disease. Why would you be mad at his parents for thinking it could be cured, or he could be helped? Why do some people think it can't be cured or helped?

On one hand people want everyone to be open to and accept and embrace this disease to help people cope with it, but on the other hand they discourage people who try to find an alternative cure or help for said disease. They have closed their mind to any possibility that a medical or scientific cure or help can be found.

In humans, "disease" is often used more broadly to refer to any condition that causes pain, dysfunction, distress, social problems, or death to the person afflicted, or similar problems for those in contact with the person.

Its difficult for me to articulate what I am trying to say. But to try and sum it up... I wish people wouldn't hate people who feel there is more to this, and think it can be cured or helped. The mind is a complex thing.

originally posted by: PageLC14
ETA: She was 17!!! So young. She didnt know anything about the real world. And who is to blame for that?? Not her that's for sure. It's the parents' job to teach their children how to make decisions that better their future. obviously, her parents failed at that like most do these days.

He is totally to blame... Not his parents.

Yeah, he was 16 when he wanted his parents to let him start a sex change. His parents didn't want to let him, so he did what all teenagers do, and condemned his parents for not giving him what he wants.

His parents did a great job informing him that his irrational decision to do a sex change was most likely a phase. Something any rational parent would say, because he was still too young to make any decision on his future, and will very likely change his mind.

His parents also went the distance and tried to remove societies influence on his decision, and isolate him to a certain extent for a period of time. Much like how a parent would take away violent video games when their kid starts talking about violent things and acting violent.

I think his parents did everything they could. I don't see why so much hate is being thrown at them.

originally posted by: PageLC14
a reply to: Jamie1

Why do you feel the need to manufacture blame? Leelah is dead because Leelah made the choice to die. That was her decision.

Yes. It was her decision. But there is ALWAYS a reason behind that kind of decision. Something that pushed them to do it. In Leelah's case, I believe that if her parents would have supported her in some way it would have helped.

ETA: She was 17!!! So young. She didnt know anything about the real world. And who is to blame for that?? Not her that's for sure. It's the parents' job to teach their children how to make decisions that better their future. obviously, her parents failed at that like most do these days.

Again, why do you feel the need to create blame for Leelah's decision?

What purpose does speculating about what might have happened differently, or could have happened differently, serve?

a reply to: WeAre0ne

Ok. Maybe what his parents did was rational. But how do we know how they treated him at home? How do we know they didn't constantly put him down for wanting to be a woman? Like I said, something PUSHED him to make that decision. His parents may have been trying to "help" him, but that doesn't necessarily mean they were. We will honestly never know what it was like for him behind closed doors. We can get his parents side of the story but we'll never know for sure. I'll say it again now, though, if they would have shown ANY kind of support for what he wanted then things may have been better for him.

When I came out to my parents and admitted to them that I wass in a same sex relationship they disowned me. It took the acceptance and love and advice of OTHER people to help me come to terms with myself. I was 17 when I moved out. My parents were no help when it came to accepting who I was.

In Leelah's case, it seems to be the opposite. He wasn't getting the acceptance he needed from his peers, so the acceptance needed to come from the ones closest to him.

a reply to: Jamie1

Firstly, answers me this: Do You have any personal experience when it comes to suicide? Any at all? It could range from either being suicidal to PERSONALLY knowing someone that is.

Because if you don't then this argument doesn't matter.

Once again, I repeat, SHE WAS 17!! She shouldn't want to be killing herself. She hadn't even gotten to the hard part of life yet. So what does that mean? Her PARENTS weren't doing something right. They weren't helping her the way parents should be.

I have 3 children I love them for who they are never would I make them kill them selves . The world is hard anough without this poor child's perants sending him to his grave . A child needs love it doesn't matter if there gay or trapped in the wrong body ..I wish you was my child young one you would of of bin loved and helped to be the person you dreamed of.....those so called perants hope you don't sleep at night now .

originally posted by: joshdeb
I have 3 children I love them for who they are never would I make them kill them selves .

Really? You think his parents MADE him kill himself??? How old are your three children, and if not teens yet, do you think you will be the perfect parent when they are teenagers ? If they've already been teens or currently are, do they love every decision you make? Do you allow them whatever they desire just to make them "happy" ?

There's a damn big difference between giving your kids what they want, and teaching them what they need to satisfy themselves in the long-term.

That's a pretty pompous statement that you would never make your kid kill themself when quite often children hate when their parent does the RIGHT thing...

We all make mistakes, but asking your child to wait to become an adult before making drastic alterations to their own body is pretty damn sensible parenting to me!



.

Poor girl. I know all too well what she was going thru, well I was in my late 20's when my youthful good looks left, but yeah I really do understand her pain.

Seriously tho, there are support networks out there, she didnt have to take her own life. I know it can be hard for some to find help, but we are always willing to help our own. So sad.

Thinking that socity needs to change because it does not agree with you is stupid and it sounds like "it" was screwed in the head in any case.

The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few

a reply to: snarky412

Three words: Parents killed her.

Hope they feel good about themselves.