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Russian Courts Find 99% guilty

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posted on Dec, 23 2014 @ 06:01 PM
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originally posted by: MALBOSIA

originally posted by: paraphi

That proves...

1. If you control the media, you control the message - both internal and external. Putin's use of State media is clever.


As apposed to corporate controlled media? Your talking nonsense. I would rather my elected state control my information rather than some grease ball corporation.


Wow. It never even occurred to you to suggest that neither should control the media.




posted on Dec, 23 2014 @ 06:11 PM
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originally posted by: MALBOSIA
Just know that for YOU to do ok for yourself someone else HAS to lose. There is no getting around that. And if your OK with that, fine. Just know that there are people of a seemingly higher quality that will not submit to that. I would rather eat sh't than take from someone else.


I take it that those people of "seeming higher quality" do not work for anyone else, do not sell products to anyone else, do not farm or otherwise collect their own land or try to claim a share of any collective harvest, and do not claim any form of benefits from the government?

Because that's pretty much the only kind of person who would fit your definition.

Also, if you're refusing to take from someone else, your own s**t is pretty much all you will be left with to eat. As you appear to have enough strength to post on the internet, I'm assuming you are eating far more nutritional food, so you are taking from other people based on your definition.



posted on Dec, 23 2014 @ 06:21 PM
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originally posted by: paraphi

originally posted by: the2ofusr1
But yet Putin has the respect from a very large majority of it's citizens and by many western people .


That proves...

1. If you control the media, you control the message - both internal and external. Putin's use of State media is clever.
2. Putin's nationalist policies work to divert people's attentions
3. Some people are gullible, especially those who rely on RT.com.

To the OP. It has well been recognised that Russia is a very corrupt society. The corruption starts at the top with the Putin's kleptocractic government. The police are renown for their corruption. It's a complete mess and the Russian people are being conned by their so called "leaders".

Transparency International 2014
Guardian article
Corruption in Putin's Russia

Regards



You guys must be desperate. Things really must not be going your way. Russia is not even close to being as corrupt as the United States. What has happened? Why are you guys so desperate to convince people that Russia and Putin are bad? You guys are playing on the losing team. Instead of spending time and resources on anti-Russia propaganda you should be preparing yourself for the collapse and your loss of power and control.



posted on Dec, 23 2014 @ 07:03 PM
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a reply to: noeltrotsky

BS, sorry.

Whatever the case with 'corruption' in Russia, at least people there know its wrong and possible to eradicate. On the other hand when corruption is written into law, there is next to nothing you can do or think of it as wrong. I am talking of us of a.

Actually, what is set as norm here is pure extortion. Now news media won't discuss this for the very reason see line above. You, my friend need to diversify reading material if I, at least, take your post seriously.

Reuters... media whore.

Cheers.



posted on Dec, 23 2014 @ 07:38 PM
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originally posted by: Flint2011
a reply to: noeltrotsky
I have said this to many people time and time again. Russia is not a democracy. It never will be either. After the the Soviet Union was dissolved the first sign of democracy led to people rioting and burning parts of Moscow down. It led to an attempted coup even by it's own special forces being used against it's government's leader. This was a clear sign to the elite that took over that democracy was not suitable for Russia in Western terms.

I mostly agree. Democracy was very short and sour in Russia after the Soviet Union collapsed. The security state moved into politics and set up several candidates to take over the government. Even in Soviet days it was always understood the security state was tasked with saving the country from itself. There was a firm restriction for agents staying out of politics thou.



posted on Dec, 23 2014 @ 07:46 PM
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originally posted by: darkorange
a reply to: noeltrotsky

BS, sorry.

No need to be sorry, but clarifying what is BS would help. I think the 99% figure it accurate and comes directly from the Russian government. Are you saying the number doesn't mean the system is corrupt? Or the topic of corruption in Russia is BS because it is 'worse' in another country?



Whatever the case with 'corruption' in Russia, at least people there know its wrong and possible to eradicate. On the other hand when corruption is written into law, there is next to nothing you can do or think of it as wrong. I am talking of us of a.
Actually, what is set as norm here is pure extortion. Now news media won't discuss this for the very reason see line above.

I don't understand the constant comparison of Russia and the USA. I didn't raise it and I've tried to clearly eliminate it because it just brings out crazy talk. Lots of problems in every country, if that makes you feel better while talking about Russian corruption.



You, my friend need to diversify reading material if I, at least, take your post seriously.
Reuters... media whore.
Cheers.

I read too much actually. More doing is required. Common affliction nowadays.



posted on Dec, 23 2014 @ 07:53 PM
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originally posted by: Adaluncatif
You guys must be desperate. Things really must not be going your way. Russia is not even close to being as corrupt as the United States. What has happened? Why are you guys so desperate to convince people that Russia and Putin are bad? You guys are playing on the losing team. Instead of spending time and resources on anti-Russia propaganda you should be preparing yourself for the collapse and your loss of power and control.

Corruption is actually in all societies I've known to some degree. Talking about it doesn't make someone 'desperate' or mean they are trying to convince people someone is bad.

This thread isn't Russia bashing but Russians sure don't like to talk about anything negative about their motherland. The reactions are funny until they start insulting others, which is coming out too often. Why do so many keep telling me to talk about something else instead? As soon as I hear that I know I'm on the right track.



posted on Dec, 23 2014 @ 08:40 PM
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originally posted by: noeltrotsky

originally posted by: darkorange
a reply to: noeltrotsky

BS, sorry.

No need to be sorry, but clarifying what is BS would help. I think the 99% figure it accurate and comes directly from the Russian government. Are you saying the number doesn't mean the system is corrupt? Or the topic of corruption in Russia is BS because it is 'worse' in another country?



Whatever the case with 'corruption' in Russia, at least people there know its wrong and possible to eradicate. On the other hand when corruption is written into law, there is next to nothing you can do or think of it as wrong. I am talking of us of a.
Actually, what is set as norm here is pure extortion. Now news media won't discuss this for the very reason see line above.

I don't understand the constant comparison of Russia and the USA. I didn't raise it and I've tried to clearly eliminate it because it just brings out crazy talk. Lots of problems in every country, if that makes you feel better while talking about Russian corruption.



You, my friend need to diversify reading material if I, at least, take your post seriously.
Reuters... media whore.
Cheers.

I read too much actually. More doing is required. Common affliction nowadays.


You read too much of Reuters alright. The fact that I can bribe some official is not new. Lockhid Martin can bribe way out. Common citizen cannot. Corruption on high profile magnitude passes unknown to you and me but economically hurts more than if I would bribe the judge to do my modest case in some village. No, you firm that government and big corporations in the us of a and mega banksters sleep in different beds. Now, who does more damage?
edit on 23-12-2014 by darkorange because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 23 2014 @ 08:54 PM
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I tell you more. Agenda is interested to give you superiority clue compared to, say Russia, popular topic for a reason. Russia is solo bad, looooook, corruption, corruption.... they keep the sheep micro busy, like you, so you see no wrong inside your own back yard. Have you been to say Moscow?

Ohhh, in vain I appeal to you self claimed diversity, you should think of the fact that people 'round the globe' are not stupid as Reuters tries to make you believe.



posted on Dec, 24 2014 @ 09:24 PM
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originally posted by: MALBOSIA
a reply to: noeltrotsky

And yet the Russians respect their leader and the US has no respect for their puppe.... I mean leader.

Americans sure love to smear Russia. It is almost painfully obvious how intimidated they are by a much stronger and more intelligent population.



More intelligent but still buying into Putins propaganda and corruption unlike a lot of Americans.



posted on Dec, 24 2014 @ 09:49 PM
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a reply to: noeltrotsky




There was a firm restriction for agents staying out of politics thou.


This statement is not exactly true. One of the last Soviet leaders before Gorbachev was ex KGB chief Andropov, unlike Putin he was a long time at the helm of that agency.

Yes Russia is corrupt on all levels, but may be slightly less on the very top compared to USA. On the top it is also corrupted but Putin has all the compro on almost anyone to put him in jail. In USA this compro will be never used, just that simple.
On lower levels , yes Russia is more corrupt. But what is your suggestion ? - To fly in American jury courts to Novokuznetsk from USA ?



posted on Dec, 25 2014 @ 02:02 AM
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funny how the only people crying about what Russia does are the ones living outside of Russia.



posted on Dec, 25 2014 @ 03:27 AM
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a reply to: noeltrotsky



posted on Dec, 25 2014 @ 03:28 AM
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a reply to: EvillerBob



posted on Dec, 25 2014 @ 04:12 AM
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a reply to: noeltrotsky. To put this in perspective, and to hopefully sober some people into realizing some things... I have a riddle for you guys. What are you as a citizen mentally ill, dangerous, a potential terrorist, and eligible to have your gun rights stripped from you without any real recourse if you believe in... YET at the same time is the most frequently charged federal felony AND Has the dubious honor of also being the federal felony with the highest percentage of indictments leading to "successful convictions" in federal court with 96% of the indictments resulting in a conviction?

CONSPIRACY

that's right if you believe there are people or groups in the world that seek to gain from covert activities... You are now mentally ill according to the DSM 5!

Further, most of the restrictions put in place SPECIFICALLY to prevent people in the medical field from being able to use their power to have a person's rights revoked for their own agenda or as an orchestrated plan to systematically abuse this power to advance agendas have been purposely dismantled, or perverted in a way that makes something intended to be temporary 99% of the time into something deliberately nearly impossible to get rescinded!

So keep laughing....

And remember,

One of the key reasons the colonies went to war besides the one they teach was the only reason they did these days was a few key parts of English criminal law and legal system.

The founding fathers would be baying for lamp posts to be decorated with hung traitors if they saw that conspiracy was the single most often charged federal felony, and the current conviction rate...

The problem with conspiracy as a criminal offense is instead of putting the burden of proof on THE STATE, which can't be done because it's a piece of the core of our legal system that acknowledges no man can know the mind or intent of another... Instead the accused are forced to attempt to prove a negative!!!

Now obviously there's glaring issues with this... (for one the MULTIPLE TIMES the supreme court has ruled that police have no duty to protect you or prevent crime, only to enforce the law after laws are broken is based off of the core acceptance that no one can truly know the intent of another person.)



Also under crown law things like modern day conspiracy law existed, and over and over it was seen that laws like this are tools of oppression.

Hey ... Wanna know another law the founding fathers would be willing to fight a second revolution to end?

The RICO act...

Again the RICO statutes are counter to the very bedrock of our legal system, Individual rights, and again represent a part of crown law so repugnant and useful to tyranny it's talked about often in revolutionary writings of the time...

GUILT BY ASSOCIATION

We started a WAR to end the tyranny of living under this exact type of law!

So yeah .... Just remember if you think Monsanto 's doing it... You're legally able to be declared incompetent with all of the implications that entails!

But... If the US government accuses YOU of it... You've got a 96% chance of being convicted and imprisoned!

So keep feeling bad for those POIR RUSSIANS



posted on Dec, 25 2014 @ 08:33 AM
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originally posted by: kitzik
a reply to: noeltrotsky


There was a firm restriction for agents staying out of politics thou.

This statement is not exactly true. One of the last Soviet leaders before Gorbachev was ex KGB chief Andropov, unlike Putin he was a long time at the helm of that agency.

Agreed that the restriction was dropped and probably was never as firm as stated.



Yes Russia is corrupt on all levels, but may be slightly less on the very top compared to USA. On the top it is also corrupted but Putin has all the compro on almost anyone to put him in jail. In USA this compro will be never used, just that simple.
On lower levels , yes Russia is more corrupt. But what is your suggestion ? - To fly in American jury courts to Novokuznetsk from USA ?

I'm not sure corruption is less in Russia in the highest levels of business. What I think is that the highest levels are more organized and agreed upon. The Siloviki 'get along' more because of the high price of causing trouble without support. In the West the highest levels of society can constantly move against anothers territory without that high price of losing. Just my feeling on it thou.



posted on Dec, 28 2014 @ 09:22 PM
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a reply to: NavyDoc

Tsardom only goes back to the 16th Century. So more like hundreds rather than thousands of years.

My whole point is that Democracy as the West perceives it and insists upon it being defined will never take root in Russia. It never has and never will take root there. Russia is unique in that it always defines it's own path. Even when bringing culture from abroad it brands it's own designs within it making it something else entirely. In this manner of history for better or worse it has much In common with the United States with regard to defining it's own path and purpose.

The Western World has become fundamentally liberal in it's expansion. Russia has however had to regain it's identity in the modern world and in doing so has become much more conservative. Many social standards in Russia were once arguably the back bone of the United States. The United States is moving away from that type of social culture as well as most if not all of Europe towards a more liberal utopia.

This puts Russia and the Western World at odds with regard to Global designs such as the New World Order. However, the Western World could very well keep an established partnership with Russia if it so desired without any compatibilities as it did so successfully for many years up until recently. The Western Powers simply choose not to allow that compatibility as it deviates from it's One World Governance agenda. Russia poses a threat to that agenda because it will not capitulate to it.

Hence there is yet another stand-off slash new cold war occurring before our very eyes. Russia will not submit. The West must not show weakness in this and will yet again isolate it. It will either lead to eventual warfare of some sort or eventual thawing of yet another cold war scenario. Putin is not going anywhere. At least until 2027.



posted on Dec, 29 2014 @ 07:32 AM
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originally posted by: Flint2011
a reply to: NavyDoc

Tsardom only goes back to the 16th Century. So more like hundreds rather than thousands of years.

My whole point is that Democracy as the West perceives it and insists upon it being defined will never take root in Russia. It never has and never will take root there. Russia is unique in that it always defines it's own path. Even when bringing culture from abroad it brands it's own designs within it making it something else entirely. In this manner of history for better or worse it has much In common with the United States with regard to defining it's own path and purpose.

The Western World has become fundamentally liberal in it's expansion. Russia has however had to regain it's identity in the modern world and in doing so has become much more conservative. Many social standards in Russia were once arguably the back bone of the United States. The United States is moving away from that type of social culture as well as most if not all of Europe towards a more liberal utopia.

This puts Russia and the Western World at odds with regard to Global designs such as the New World Order. However, the Western World could very well keep an established partnership with Russia if it so desired without any compatibilities as it did so successfully for many years up until recently. The Western Powers simply choose not to allow that compatibility as it deviates from it's One World Governance agenda. Russia poses a threat to that agenda because it will not capitulate to it.

Hence there is yet another stand-off slash new cold war occurring before our very eyes. Russia will not submit. The West must not show weakness in this and will yet again isolate it. It will either lead to eventual warfare of some sort or eventual thawing of yet another cold war scenario. Putin is not going anywhere. At least until 2027.



Well, of course, with Ivan being the "first Tsar" when Grand Duchy of Moscow effectively became the dominant Russian state in the 1500's. My point was the what we know as "Russia" has been ruled by absolute monarchs for almost two millenia with the first Grand Princes of Kiev and Novgorod in the 800's.

Yes, there is a great cultural difference and a long history of absolutism, from monarchs to Soviet dictators, Russia really has not the same culture of democracy that the west has.

Yes, I agree with you that many Russian cultural norms are the norms that used to be the backbone of the US--religion, the nuclear family, public "decency," and, work ethic, so forth. It has been argued that part of the decline of the US is an abandonment of said norms.

I disagree that Putin is "standing up" to the New World Order. As an ex-KGB agent, he is part of that order, IMHO. After centuries of absolute rule, that method of ruling is what Russians are accustomed to and Putin is a wanna-be dictator who longs for the absolutist power of his predecessors.



posted on Dec, 29 2014 @ 03:12 PM
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originally posted by: NavyDoc
I disagree that Putin is "standing up" to the New World Order. As an ex-KGB agent, he is part of that order, IMHO. After centuries of absolute rule, that method of ruling is what Russians are accustomed to and Putin is a wanna-be dictator who longs for the absolutist power of his predecessors.


I always see the NWO as being a small group of people that decide the future of mankind. Putin, in my opinion, likes to do things his own way. I don't see him in that small cabal of decision makers around the world. I see him as fighting to keep his territory free of complete NWO influence. Of course in a inter-connected world there is always going to be some influence, but Putin wants as little as possible influence on his decisions.

Just my thoughts thou....Putin is surely a complex person and worthy of in depth study no doubt.



posted on Dec, 29 2014 @ 05:04 PM
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See, I always read and hear people calling on his former KGB experience as some sort of pitfall or inclination for the man to be some how a dictator or hell bent on evil. It's conjecture. The fact is that we don't know any of this to be true. I could easily argue this subject matter away at that. The history of former US President George Herbert Walker Bush is a good example.

Putin will not capitulate and it is very clear that he will not be a team player with those who demand he conform to there way of things when it goes against the grain of his Nation and culture. As a world Leader he is responsibilities of course. But those are secondary to his responsibility to the Russian Federation. in less than 3 decades Russia has climbed out of the ashes of nothingness. I sit perfect? Hell no. It's got a long ways to go but Putin is one man. He is smart. he is smart enough to surround himself with the right people. He does make for a solid Russian leader.

Russia is still trying to climb back from the fall of the Soviet Union. It'll take time. And allowing foreign intervention and meddling in in Russia is not something to be tolerated. It's not tolerated by any other major Nation so how is it that some how he evil because he defends the interests and security of his Nation like any other leader.

I am not a fan of Putin. He is no better than anyone else. But when I look at Russia and it's leadership i do one thing. I taker off my Westernized glasses and walk in their shoes as best as I can. I read TASS nearly daily. The amount of media control and propaganda is immense. But then the same can be said for the Western World. The only difference between the West and Russia is that Russia is more transparent about it's control of the media. It's not more honest. But it is more transparent.

Russia is on it's own path and the Western World be damned because nothing and I mean nothing will change it short of absolute devastation to the Russian people and there Nation. Putin serves his nation far better than the West wants people to know. So even with all of the imperfections of Russia. One thing can be said for sure. The Russian people are very intelligent. They know what's going on in the world and they know Putin serves their best interests.



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