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Russian Courts Find 99% guilty

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posted on Dec, 21 2014 @ 12:24 PM
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That does looks suspicious and looks pretty bad but the US almost got the double amount of prisoners per
100,000 population:
en.wikipedia.org...




posted on Dec, 21 2014 @ 01:08 PM
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originally posted by: kitzik
a reply to: noeltrotsky
Speaking of 99% rate, why don't you criticize Japan for the same statistic figure of 99 % ?

Clearly Japan has different legal issues, as the article you quoted suggests. In fact they have implemented a jury system to help change it along with questioning the high confession rates. That is more a function of the very different society in Japan I'd argue than a corruption issue. But good point to discuss.



www.thenational.ae...

Did you read the article you quoted? Here is a key passage that undermines your theory that the Russian judicial system isn't simply very corrupt.
""The cases are being handled by the same investigating bodies, but in jury trials between 15 and 20 per cent of defendants are acquitted," Mr Nasonov said."
The differences between jury trials and judge only trials is a clear indicator of judicial corruption.



posted on Dec, 21 2014 @ 01:13 PM
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originally posted by: Plugin
That does looks suspicious and looks pretty bad but the US almost got the double amount of prisoners per
100,000 population:
en.wikipedia.org...


I'd suggest that the amount of prisoners in a judicial system indicates a very different issue than a 99% conviction rate indicates. The US clearly has a 'tough on crime' policy and has had it for many years. Comparing the two issues is Apples and Oranges really.



posted on Dec, 21 2014 @ 01:27 PM
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originally posted by: MALBOSIA
I would rather my elected state control my information rather than some grease ball corporation.

Odd that you want your information controlled at all, but it's your right I guess.



At least RT reporters research and don't rely only on script.

RT reporters gather their own news? You are joking right? They sit behind a desk and read a script. In fact, when they don't want to keep reading the script they quit, like several have done in the recent past refusing to read the biased lies anymore.
www.theguardian.com...


Russians are good people and they respect their leader for his strength and ability to not be influenced or intimidated by the West who's lifestyle, Russians want nothing to do with.

Russians are good people, but you are delusional if you think they don't want a Western lifestyle. You can't walk 10 steps in Moscow without running into a Western lifestyle that is crammed with Russians.



posted on Dec, 21 2014 @ 01:33 PM
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Sadly any thread on Russia gets jumped on by the usual suspects, beating down any discussion on the topic into a comparison of the US vs Russia. There was no intent to compare the US to Russia in the original post. Let me repeat,

There was no intent to compare the US to Russia in the original post.

Hope people can move on and discuss the topic of Russian corruption.



posted on Dec, 21 2014 @ 01:46 PM
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a reply to: noeltrotsky





Hope people can move on and discuss the topic of Russian corruption.



How you can discuss Russian corruption, and I'm not saying there isn't any, when your sources are biased, your own opinion tends to compare current corruption with the old Stalinist epoch. You don't use any factual material in Russian language and I have a feeling you yourself have little understanding of contemporary Russia.



posted on Dec, 21 2014 @ 04:11 PM
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originally posted by: kitzik
a reply to: noeltrotsky
... when your sources are biased

I agree...the source I quoted from 'Sputnik' is surely biased.

In all honesty though, every 'source' is biased to some degree, so simply invalidating an argument because a source is biased is pretty easy. How about discussing what the source is saying and proving or disproving it instead? Might that not be more useful?



posted on Dec, 21 2014 @ 04:53 PM
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a reply to: noeltrotsky

Okay,so Russia is fraught with corruption and not a democracy. Same goes for us.Thing is,why our you worried about what they are doing? So you don't have to take action against the country you live in? This is the main point I have been trying to drive home on these posts. Stop worrying about your neighbor and clean up your own house first!

I have never in my life seen so many lazy Americans. They would rather point out every other countries faults and problems than to take a hard look at their own. This seems in some twisted way to absolve them of responsibility of having to fix their own corrupt system.

Though this may seem to be an exaggeration on the point,think about what the Americans did to the Germans citizens when they saw what was going on in the concentration camps. They marched said citizens up there and made them look,then bury the dead. They held them ACCOUNTABLE for the actions of their leader and military.

Now stop and think of what would happen to us if we got in to a world war and lost. All of our governments dirty secrets came to light as to what they had been up to. Torturing,bombings,trampling on human rights,oil wars,dead children and women,etc. What do you think the rest of the world will do to us? I mean just regular American citizens? Would we deserve any less? Do you think claiming innocence would work? During the Nuremberg trials Nazi after Nazi got up on the stand and said "I was following orders", or "I had no knowledge of that". So ask yourself,what if we get taken over? Lord only knows we have pissed off almost every country at one time or another. Do you think they will show us mercy? I think that is a good question to ask yourself. Being as we are a part of this world,we have an obligation to act like it. That means we must practice good neighbor rules on ourselves so we aren't a nuisance to others. I think we come up short in that one. Russia unless they are on our borders is no concern of ours. Worry about us first.



posted on Dec, 21 2014 @ 05:11 PM
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a reply to: noeltrotsky

Its not just a russian "thing"

Japan has a very similar conviction rate too.



posted on Dec, 21 2014 @ 06:20 PM
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originally posted by: Dimithae
a reply to: noeltrotsky
Okay,so Russia is fraught with corruption and not a democracy. Same goes for us.

I specifically said this isn't about the US vs Russia. Besides, You have provided no evidence to support the US not being a democracy. Gather it and start your own thread about it.



Thing is,why our you worried about what they are doing?

Not worried about what Russia is doing, just writing about it. In a democracy that is allowed.



So you don't have to take action against the country you live in?

Discussing issues and raising awareness is a form of action.



This is the main point I have been trying to drive home on these posts. Stop worrying about your neighbor and clean up your own house first!

I can focus my time and efforts as I like, because I live in a democracy. Your constant posts about cleaning up yourself first are futile because you are not my boss.



I have never in my life seen so many lazy Americans. They would rather point out every other countries faults and problems than to take a hard look at their own. This seems in some twisted way to absolve them of responsibility of having to fix their own corrupt system.

Although I'm not American I still find this incredibly insulting. Keyboards make great ways to insult whole nations of people but eventually you get caught out in real life. I hope your attitudes run into some Americans without the keyboard protecting such a tough guy like you.



Though this may seem to be an exaggeration on the point,think about what the Americans did to the Germans citizens when they saw what was going on in the concentration camps.

Your entire discussion of Nazis is irrelevant and far, far off topic. Russian trolls constantly bring up Nazi references now and it really shows a tremendous lack of education on World War II. Clearly the pay Putin offers these trolls doesn't include an education that includes history.
edit on 21-12-2014 by noeltrotsky because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 21 2014 @ 06:29 PM
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originally posted by: crazyewok
a reply to: noeltrotsky
Its not just a russian "thing"
Japan has a very similar conviction rate too.

There was a previous post about Japan's conviction rate, including a useful link, in case you missed it.

I agree the conviction rate in Japan isn't appropriate in a well functioning judiciary inside a democracy. However in Japan's case I believe that rate is related to societal values and a very high confession rate. I believe Japan has implemented more Jury trials which might help, however I don't know much about Japan. If someone who knows more about Japan and can talk about why they have such a conviction rate I'd be interested to hear it.

I don't think the fact Japan has a high conviction rate as well automatically means Russia's high conviction rate is 'normal'. I'd argue ANY country with this kind of conviction rate has judicial issues. What those issues are are most likely different in each case.



posted on Dec, 21 2014 @ 11:35 PM
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a reply to: noeltrotsky




You have provided no evidence to support the US not being a democracy.


1. We are not a democracy. We are supposed to be a Democratic Republic,but we fail at that one too. Here is your proof:
www.washingtontimes.com...


“The central point that emerges from our research is that economic elites and organized groups representing business interests have substantial independent impacts on U.S. government policy, while mass-based interest groups and average citizens have little or no independent influence,” the study found.

Read more: www.washingtontimes.com...
Follow us: @washtimes on Twitter


2.I'm not a guy,I am and have always been female thank you.
3. Coming out of Ferguson Missouri,I have had no choice but to fight at times to protect myself or others.Therefore I will gladly come out from behind my keyboard with my attitude as I have in the past to point out issues with people's stand.
4. I read all the time and have been reading since I was 4 years old,my mother taught me to read at that time and had a library in our basement of all kinds of subjects,we were always welcome to read anything there. And yes I have read not the official story in America but from others point of view about what all happened in ww2. I find what takes humans to war to be interesting.

5. I never said you couldn't go on about Russia,yes it is still a somewhat democracy, we haven't yet hit Fahrenheit 451. I question as to why you WOULD go on about Russia. Since your not an American then I guess it doesn't matter what country you want to go on about,my apologies. That was a question for Americans,seeing as how our government has completely and totally failed us.This is a common theme with Americans to look at other countries and go on about how bad that country is,yet we have a debt backed dollar and they have no problem with it. Our constitution and bill or rights are ignored and we seem to have no problem with that either. I am neither paid for my opinions nor in the employ of any country. No sense in attacking my intelligence. Have fun bashing Russia, I for my part will keep bashing America. That is, until I get taken away.



posted on Dec, 22 2014 @ 06:36 AM
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originally posted by: noeltrotsky

Let me repost this as you clearly didn't read it or comprehend it.


I specifically said this isn't about the US vs Russia. Besides, You have provided no evidence to support the US not being a democracy. Gather it and start your own thread about it.


I'll repost this other post as well.


There was no intent to compare the US to Russia in the original post.


Or this other post of mine in this thread.


Hope people can move on and discuss the topic of Russian corruption.


What's the point thou. After multiple posts about the topic NOT being something it's obvious you don't care and you're going to post anything you like. Of course a moderator isn't going to delete your stupid, Nazi referencing posts because they aren't everywhere or they don't care either. Honestly, Nazi references compared to US actions in World War II? What in the hell was your mother teaching you in her basement library???

It is completely ignorant people like this that ruin a discussion website. They jump into any and all threads with their one world view, DOWN WITH AMERICA, and slant the view to any topic. High home prices? DOWN WITH AMERICA! Parking meters are rip offs? DOWN WITH AMERICA! Area 51 cover up? DOWN WITH AMERICA!

Heaven forbid you touch a subject about their 'HOLY MOTHER RUSSIA'! You can't say anything bad about it, despite the truth in the real world. That's when you get Nazi references and the whole crazy Russian Troll attitude. You know you're dealing with a crazy Russian Troll when you hear "Lazy Americans" and get Nazi references. These trolls live everywhere amazingly enough, but usually in some recent city in the news. Of course their use of English is never perfect and they tend to drop articles in sentences, just like this Troll did.

Troll away you crazy Russian! Mind as well enjoy it and laugh at them. What stupid and irrelevant reference is next? Hard to top US soldiers acting like Nazi's, but if you try Troll you can do it!
edit on 22-12-2014 by noeltrotsky because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 22 2014 @ 08:32 AM
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originally posted by: noeltrotsky

originally posted by: crazyewok
a reply to: noeltrotsky
Its not just a russian "thing"
Japan has a very similar conviction rate too.

There was a previous post about Japan's conviction rate, including a useful link, in case you missed it.

I agree the conviction rate in Japan isn't appropriate in a well functioning judiciary inside a democracy. However in Japan's case I believe that rate is related to societal values and a very high confession rate. I believe Japan has implemented more Jury trials which might help, however I don't know much about Japan. If someone who knows more about Japan and can talk about why they have such a conviction rate I'd be interested to hear it.

I don't think the fact Japan has a high conviction rate as well automatically means Russia's high conviction rate is 'normal'. I'd argue ANY country with this kind of conviction rate has judicial issues. What those issues are are most likely different in each case.


Well from what I read a lot of that conviction rate was yes indeed confessions but those are due to quite brutal and long police interrogations allowed. They can hold you for up to 3 months and can really "work" on you.



posted on Dec, 22 2014 @ 09:02 AM
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originally posted by: MALBOSIA

originally posted by: paraphi

originally posted by: MALBOSIA
And yet the Russians respect their leader and the US has no respect for their puppe.... I mean leader.


The problem is that in Russia if you are an activist that attempts to expose corruption in office, you may find yourself intimidated and imprisoned. Several journalists have been murdered when they have got too close. With so few people able to contradict the State media's outpourings, the opinion poll just becomes another way to reinforce the message.

The fact you can call Obama a puppet, and get away with it, perhaps shows the difference.

Regards



I would rather be in prison and know where I stand with my country than scratching my head wondering why I can't get a good job, the bank never returns my calls, the police never come when I want to report a crime and the tax collectors want receipts for everything. It may SOUND worse to be in Russia but the truth is the results are the same. I would rather be in prison than asked to leave a coffee shop because my construction work clothes were to close akin to a homeless man. That happened.


LOL. You don't want to be in a Russian prison. They make ours look like Disneyland. I understand you are just trying to use hyperbole to make a point, but you really, really don't mean that or at least you wouldn't if you really knew what they were like.



posted on Dec, 22 2014 @ 09:06 AM
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originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: MALBOSIA

originally posted by: paraphi

originally posted by: MALBOSIA
And yet the Russians respect their leader and the US has no respect for their puppe.... I mean leader.


The problem is that in Russia if you are an activist that attempts to expose corruption in office, you may find yourself intimidated and imprisoned. Several journalists have been murdered when they have got too close. With so few people able to contradict the State media's outpourings, the opinion poll just becomes another way to reinforce the message.

The fact you can call Obama a puppet, and get away with it, perhaps shows the difference.

Regards



I would rather be in prison and know where I stand with my country than scratching my head wondering why I can't get a good job, the bank never returns my calls, the police never come when I want to report a crime and the tax collectors want receipts for everything. It may SOUND worse to be in Russia but the truth is the results are the same. I would rather be in prison than asked to leave a coffee shop because my construction work clothes were to close akin to a homeless man. That happened.


LOL. You don't want to be in a Russian prison. They make ours look like Disneyland. I understand you are just trying to use hyperbole to make a point, but you really, really don't mean that or at least you wouldn't if you really knew what they were like.


I grew up in Canada's north. You wouldn't last a day with your precious thin American skin. I relate more with the Russians. Sorry.



posted on Dec, 22 2014 @ 09:09 AM
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originally posted by: MALBOSIA

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: MALBOSIA

originally posted by: paraphi

originally posted by: MALBOSIA
And yet the Russians respect their leader and the US has no respect for their puppe.... I mean leader.


The problem is that in Russia if you are an activist that attempts to expose corruption in office, you may find yourself intimidated and imprisoned. Several journalists have been murdered when they have got too close. With so few people able to contradict the State media's outpourings, the opinion poll just becomes another way to reinforce the message.

The fact you can call Obama a puppet, and get away with it, perhaps shows the difference.

Regards



I would rather be in prison and know where I stand with my country than scratching my head wondering why I can't get a good job, the bank never returns my calls, the police never come when I want to report a crime and the tax collectors want receipts for everything. It may SOUND worse to be in Russia but the truth is the results are the same. I would rather be in prison than asked to leave a coffee shop because my construction work clothes were to close akin to a homeless man. That happened.


LOL. You don't want to be in a Russian prison. They make ours look like Disneyland. I understand you are just trying to use hyperbole to make a point, but you really, really don't mean that or at least you wouldn't if you really knew what they were like.


I grew up in Canada's north. You wouldn't last a day with your precious thin American skin. I relate more with the Russians. Sorry.


First of all, no need to be a rude jackass.

Secondly:
I'm 1/2 Russian and speak it and have been there. You?
edit on 22-12-2014 by NavyDoc because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 22 2014 @ 09:54 AM
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originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: MALBOSIA

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: MALBOSIA

originally posted by: paraphi

originally posted by: MALBOSIA
And yet the Russians respect their leader and the US has no respect for their puppe.... I mean leader.


The problem is that in Russia if you are an activist that attempts to expose corruption in office, you may find yourself intimidated and imprisoned. Several journalists have been murdered when they have got too close. With so few people able to contradict the State media's outpourings, the opinion poll just becomes another way to reinforce the message.

The fact you can call Obama a puppet, and get away with it, perhaps shows the difference.

Regards



I would rather be in prison and know where I stand with my country than scratching my head wondering why I can't get a good job, the bank never returns my calls, the police never come when I want to report a crime and the tax collectors want receipts for everything. It may SOUND worse to be in Russia but the truth is the results are the same. I would rather be in prison than asked to leave a coffee shop because my construction work clothes were to close akin to a homeless man. That happened.


LOL. You don't want to be in a Russian prison. They make ours look like Disneyland. I understand you are just trying to use hyperbole to make a point, but you really, really don't mean that or at least you wouldn't if you really knew what they were like.


I grew up in Canada's north. You wouldn't last a day with your precious thin American skin. I relate more with the Russians. Sorry.


First of all, no need to be a rude jackass.

Secondly:
I'm 1/2 Russian and speak it and have been there. You?


I stand corrected, maybe you do have some grit.

You have been to prison in Russia?

As far as being a Jackass, it is a knee jerk reaction that I give to trendy Russia bashing.

Life might seem "easier" in the west but easy doesn't mean squat. There is living good and then there is living easy. Ill take good.

Russians don't seem to mind it there. They are proud of their country where Americans are ignorant of theirs and call it pride. Its like the twilight zone.



posted on Dec, 22 2014 @ 11:52 AM
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originally posted by: MALBOSIA

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: MALBOSIA

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: MALBOSIA

originally posted by: paraphi

originally posted by: MALBOSIA
And yet the Russians respect their leader and the US has no respect for their puppe.... I mean leader.


The problem is that in Russia if you are an activist that attempts to expose corruption in office, you may find yourself intimidated and imprisoned. Several journalists have been murdered when they have got too close. With so few people able to contradict the State media's outpourings, the opinion poll just becomes another way to reinforce the message.

The fact you can call Obama a puppet, and get away with it, perhaps shows the difference.

Regards



I would rather be in prison and know where I stand with my country than scratching my head wondering why I can't get a good job, the bank never returns my calls, the police never come when I want to report a crime and the tax collectors want receipts for everything. It may SOUND worse to be in Russia but the truth is the results are the same. I would rather be in prison than asked to leave a coffee shop because my construction work clothes were to close akin to a homeless man. That happened.


LOL. You don't want to be in a Russian prison. They make ours look like Disneyland. I understand you are just trying to use hyperbole to make a point, but you really, really don't mean that or at least you wouldn't if you really knew what they were like.


I grew up in Canada's north. You wouldn't last a day with your precious thin American skin. I relate more with the Russians. Sorry.


First of all, no need to be a rude jackass.

Secondly:
I'm 1/2 Russian and speak it and have been there. You?


I stand corrected, maybe you do have some grit.

You have been to prison in Russia?

As far as being a Jackass, it is a knee jerk reaction that I give to trendy Russia bashing.

Life might seem "easier" in the west but easy doesn't mean squat. There is living good and then there is living easy. Ill take good.

Russians don't seem to mind it there. They are proud of their country where Americans are ignorant of theirs and call it pride. Its like the twilight zone.



No, but I have relatives who have.

Some people in Russia like Putin, some don't. Dissent is much less free than here or Canada, so vocal opposition is very difficult.

Are people there better than under the old Soviet Union (which Putin, an ex-KGB agent admires) ? Certainly. Is the standard of living or freedom better than in the West? Nope, not yet. There is still a separation in classes. If you are part of Putin's circle of approved individuals, you can be quite well off, like the family of my exchange student I recently hosted from the Novosibersk region. If you disagree with Putin, you wake up with your business boarded up and facing criminal charges for "tax evasion."

I think your opinion is based more on extreme dislike for the United States and the west than any real knowledge about Russia.
edit on 22-12-2014 by NavyDoc because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 22 2014 @ 12:08 PM
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originally posted by: NavyDoc
I think your opinion is based more on extreme dislike for the United States and the west than any real knowledge about Russia.

There is SO MUCH of this pure uninformed opinion it's like a tidal wave.

My time in Novokuznetsk, just past Novosibirsk, was eye opening. If you've only visited Moscow or St. Petersburg you don't know the real Russia. Many live pretty close to the edge of survival and support whoever can make life a little easier. Corruption is like water and everyone has their 'roof'. People would vote in the Devil himself if they thought he'd pay them in US dollars instead of Rubles.



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