Finally saw the full effect of Illegal Immigration in Los Angeles. We're in trouble.

originally posted by: FyreByrd
Hey if you had health insurance you could have gone anywhere.

Sweetheart they were here first - don't forget it. You could use this as a learning experience. A taste of what minorities go through everyday.

Better learn to speak Spanish.

viva El Pueblo de la Reina de Los Angeles

First huh? I hate this nonsense, possibly having ancestors who used to live on some area of dirt doesn't make you entitled to come back years later and demand the benefits new inhabitants have worked for genrations to achieve. Learn to speak English at least, I'm in Dallas and had a freaking pharmacy tech who couldn't speak English. God, this fires me up. Legal immigration? Awsome! Come join into what we have going here.
Illegal immigration? Distugusting. Go steal from someone else's society, or start working day in and day out to sustain one of your own like we do in the US. They can't keep their own country/goverment from becoming a glorified drug ring that already is encroaching on our safety.

originally posted by: circuitsports
Luckily all of the road signs are still in English but the billions spent translating drivers exams into other languages is the most troubling, how are people that only understand Chinese supposed to drive in the US safely? - there is a joke there somewhere but it's not funny.

The joke made me chuckle a bit even though it is kind of sad, but my sense of humor is slightly warped.

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originally posted by: BatheInTheFountainYou know what's funny? I've actually worked the vineyards in Napa California with 2 migrant workers for a week. It was by far the hardest work I've done, and I spent 6 years working in a steel mill in all sorts of stations, down to reject grinder.

But guess WHAT. The 'field workers' account for less than 4% of the total Illegal Immigrant work force.

So what now? Where are the other 96% working?
If you'd like to know I can educate you.

"Jobs Americans won't do"?

Hmmmmmm, I have stories about that.

If an illegal has the education for a job and is better qualified for a job that Americans have... you've under achieved. But that's easy for me to say, since I'm a blue collar worker also, who isn't seeing the influx of illegal immigrants in my area.

a reply to: dr1234


I sleep very well at night knowing there are people like you being hate filled and miserable and knowing there isn't a damn thing you can do about it.

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: hotcake
They come her to live and expect us to change.

How do they expect YOU to change?

Got news for you, Mexicans and their culture were a part of "America" long before Europeans.

Mexicans and their culture have always been here.

Who exactly expected who to change?

You know i've seen basically give so much FALSE information on this thread , to downright lies.

"Mexicans" have no more "right' here than do Russians or Spaniards which actually held territory here LONGER and stronger. The "Mexicans" held the area of Los Angeles for no more than 20 years between wars, and they had sparse outposts here which were largely unmanned because they couldn't hold much of the territory from here to San Diego.

Secondly, you ask "who expected you to change"?

Are you joking?????

I get EVERY phone bill with a Spanish copy, some bills I get in Spanish only because I am Portuguese and they think my last name is SPANISH...which it is not. Have you even been reading the people's testimony on this whole thread about having to learn SPANISH in school, or Spanish translators needed, or waste of public funds for all this?

Did you even read my OP about my experiences?

I mean, it's as if you are WILLFULLY ignoring what people are saying just to fit your predisposed notions.
THAT is called being disingenuous...that is called denial.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: Night Star

We have the number of languages that our society can bare. If we can function well with 200 languages, then so be it. We appear to be functioning just fine with Spanish quickly becoming a secondary language in this country, so why fight it?

The second most spoken language in California is TAGALOG...not Spanish

Do you suppose I learn that too???? How many languages must we learn? Why is it always up to English speaking nations to absorb all the others and assimilate around THEM?

We also saw what Illegal immigration did to the Native Americans. We destroyed everything they had!

Hmmmm. I think we should all go home...yes?

Just editing to add...seems a little hypocritical for us to be mad at Mexicans for doing the exact same thing our forefathers did. Yeah?

originally posted by: anicetus

originally posted by: BatheInTheFountainYou know what's funny? I've actually worked the vineyards in Napa California with 2 migrant workers for a week. It was by far the hardest work I've done, and I spent 6 years working in a steel mill in all sorts of stations, down to reject grinder.

But guess WHAT. The 'field workers' account for less than 4% of the total Illegal Immigrant work force.

So what now? Where are the other 96% working?
If you'd like to know I can educate you.

"Jobs Americans won't do"?

Hmmmmmm, I have stories about that.

If an illegal has the education for a job and is better qualified for a job that Americans have... you've under achieved. But that's easy for me to say, since I'm a blue collar worker also, who isn't seeing the influx of illegal immigrants in my area.

Many Illegal Immigrants have skills equal to ours, but the language barrier is their achilles heal.

But it's even more telling that you blame the native worker that they are 'weak' somehow if the Illegal gets a job.

You don't mention the Illegal Immigrant's will to take lower pay, for their assistance by Government to hire Illegals, that Illegals may board 10 to a house to save on money...thus creating a lower need for wages...or that Illegals take public assistance putting them ahead of an American worker, or that an Illegal worker will be more reluctant to REPORT an employer for work violations.

You've omitted a load of data.

originally posted by: amazing
We also saw what Illegal immigration did to the Native Americans. We destroyed everything they had!

Hmmmm. I think we should all go home...yes?

Funny, in your attempt to make a joke, you just made the best case FOR Immigration policy and borders and AGAINST Illegal Immigration.

Thank you!!

originally posted by: BatheInTheFountain

originally posted by: amazing
We also saw what Illegal immigration did to the Native Americans. We destroyed everything they had!

Hmmmm. I think we should all go home...yes?

Funny, in your attempt to make a joke, you just made the best case FOR Immigration policy and borders and AGAINST Illegal Immigration.

Thank you!!

But America was founded on Illegal immigration. Only it was French, Spanish and English speaking...oh wait...these new people do speak spanish....hmmmm

originally posted by: amazing

originally posted by: BatheInTheFountain

originally posted by: amazing
We also saw what Illegal immigration did to the Native Americans. We destroyed everything they had!

Hmmmm. I think we should all go home...yes?

Funny, in your attempt to make a joke, you just made the best case FOR Immigration policy and borders and AGAINST Illegal Immigration.

Thank you!!

But America was founded on Illegal immigration. Only it was French, Spanish and English speaking...oh wait...these new people do speak spanish....hmmmm

Why is that to argue your case, you cite 400-600 year old history? That is called a STRAW MAN.

But I'll entertain your Straw Man. The Natives that were here didn't have an Immigration System or formal Government. We took over by raw genocide and murder and encroachment on land.

You can't compare the two or even use it for this debate because it's not even the same premise.

So let it go.

originally posted by: BatheInTheFountain

originally posted by: amazing

originally posted by: BatheInTheFountain

originally posted by: amazing
We also saw what Illegal immigration did to the Native Americans. We destroyed everything they had!

Hmmmm. I think we should all go home...yes?

Funny, in your attempt to make a joke, you just made the best case FOR Immigration policy and borders and AGAINST Illegal Immigration.

Thank you!!

But America was founded on Illegal immigration. Only it was French, Spanish and English speaking...oh wait...these new people do speak spanish....hmmmm

Why is that to argue your case, you cite 400-600 year old history? That is called a STRAW MAN.

But I'll entertain your Straw Man. The Natives that were here didn't have an Immigration System or formal Government. We took over by raw genocide and murder and encroachment on land.

You can't compare the two or even use it for this debate because it's not even the same premise.

So let it go.

I'm making good points but deflect me all you want.

What we need to do is just open the borders and make the path to citizen ship easy for all. ( I have news for you...the borders are like swiss cheese already so opening the borders up won't really have any effect other then make illegal immigrants legal.) Now...if we make them all legal...they'll all be documented...all have social security cards...all pay taxes...etc etc etc. They'll just be like you and me only scumbags won't be able to hire them for less than the minimum wage, our hospital emergency rooms won't be clogged up, the federal and state governments will get more revenue.

So you are against this idea because?

Oh, I already know...because talk radio told you it was a bad idea. Got it.

originally posted by: BatheInTheFountain

originally posted by: amazing
We also saw what Illegal immigration did to the Native Americans. We destroyed everything they had!

Hmmmm. I think we should all go home...yes?

Funny, in your attempt to make a joke, you just made the best case FOR Immigration policy and borders and AGAINST Illegal Immigration.

Thank you!!

To add to that did the Native Americans have a nation under one flag with rule of law and any type of constitution? Where they actually a nation? Hmm I don't think so. And furthermore it has not even been proven that the Native Americans were native to the NA continent, most of the scientific evidence is that Indian ancestors came from Asia in prehistoric times, when mammoths and other ancient animals did. So i guess they should had back as well??

Nations are established, laws are made this isn't 200 years ago. This argument is invalid. It seems that we must cater to one certain group who crosses our southern border illegally. We cater to them as you do not have a option to press 2 for Chinese, 3 for Russian etc etc.... Are the people that support these illegal immigrants racist themselves? It seems so as they are implying one group of illegals should get there language and customs catered to while others not so much. What about the other 300+ languages spoken by legal/illegal immigrants alike in this country?

originally posted by: amazing

originally posted by: BatheInTheFountain

originally posted by: amazing

originally posted by: BatheInTheFountain

originally posted by: amazing
We also saw what Illegal immigration did to the Native Americans. We destroyed everything they had!

Hmmmm. I think we should all go home...yes?

Funny, in your attempt to make a joke, you just made the best case FOR Immigration policy and borders and AGAINST Illegal Immigration.

Thank you!!

But America was founded on Illegal immigration. Only it was French, Spanish and English speaking...oh wait...these new people do speak spanish....hmmmm

Why is that to argue your case, you cite 400-600 year old history? That is called a STRAW MAN.

But I'll entertain your Straw Man. The Natives that were here didn't have an Immigration System or formal Government. We took over by raw genocide and murder and encroachment on land.

You can't compare the two or even use it for this debate because it's not even the same premise.

So let it go.

I'm making good points but deflect me all you want.

What we need to do is just open the borders and make the path to citizen ship easy for all. ( I have news for you...the borders are like swiss cheese already so opening the borders up won't really have any effect other then make illegal immigrants legal.) Now...if we make them all legal...they'll all be documented...all have social security cards...all pay taxes...etc etc etc. They'll just be like you and me only scumbags won't be able to hire them for less than the minimum wage, our hospital emergency rooms won't be clogged up, the federal and state governments will get more revenue.

So you are against this idea because?

Oh, I already know...because talk radio told you it was a bad idea. Got it.

Okay, you lost me. Won't respond to you anymore here. Good luck man.

originally posted by: BatheInTheFountain

originally posted by: amazing

originally posted by: BatheInTheFountain

originally posted by: amazing

originally posted by: BatheInTheFountain

originally posted by: amazing
We also saw what Illegal immigration did to the Native Americans. We destroyed everything they had!

Hmmmm. I think we should all go home...yes?

Funny, in your attempt to make a joke, you just made the best case FOR Immigration policy and borders and AGAINST Illegal Immigration.

Thank you!!

But America was founded on Illegal immigration. Only it was French, Spanish and English speaking...oh wait...these new people do speak spanish....hmmmm

Why is that to argue your case, you cite 400-600 year old history? That is called a STRAW MAN.

But I'll entertain your Straw Man. The Natives that were here didn't have an Immigration System or formal Government. We took over by raw genocide and murder and encroachment on land.

You can't compare the two or even use it for this debate because it's not even the same premise.

So let it go.

I'm making good points but deflect me all you want.

What we need to do is just open the borders and make the path to citizen ship easy for all. ( I have news for you...the borders are like swiss cheese already so opening the borders up won't really have any effect other then make illegal immigrants legal.) Now...if we make them all legal...they'll all be documented...all have social security cards...all pay taxes...etc etc etc. They'll just be like you and me only scumbags won't be able to hire them for less than the minimum wage, our hospital emergency rooms won't be clogged up, the federal and state governments will get more revenue.

So you are against this idea because?

Oh, I already know...because talk radio told you it was a bad idea. Got it.

Okay, you lost me. Won't respond to you anymore here. Good luck man.

Good luck to you as well mi amigo.

a reply to: BatheInTheFountain

I think you should do what makes your life the easiest. If that means learning a new language to live in your area, then so be it. Where I live, I can get by with English, so I don't need to learn another language. Though if I moved closer to the border, I'm sure it would help to pick up Spanish. I can tell you that fighting language change will just leave you left in the dust, unable to communicate with anyone. If that bothers you, move.

I'm not advocating to learn a language just because (though there is nothing wrong with doing that). I'm saying that locales change and with those changes comes language changes. You have to adapt to survive. That is the way life works.

You should be able to speak whatever language you wish in your home.

The line should be drawn somewhere and that would be professionals and the like.

English should be the only language spoken at institutions/areas where the public comes together for business, or where absolutely necessary, so that all humans present are able to efficiently communicate with one another.

Unless the nations leader's intend a bi-cultural integration in the new future,
do they plan on conceding land to different languages? Spanish zone, Mandarin zone etc..

a reply to: Krazysh0t

The federal government in Mexico has been corrupt for years. Long before the cartels ever set up in that country, the government is corrupt and tends to run rough shod over its population . Having lived on the border of Mexico, and talked with both people who visit and lived in Mexico, the common theme was corruption, that went from the highest levels down to the lower levels.

Consider this, if you are visiting Mexico, especially in any one of the boarder towns and cities, it is prudent to have about 100 to 150 in case to bribe the federal police should they stop you, and they will. And if you do not, they will take you to jail, where you sit until one sees the magistrate, and is able to get an attorney and is set free and sent back to the USA.

This goes back farther than the drug war, and is not about the drug war what so ever. If anything this issue has been around for years, and if anything it is more a political issue. Did it ever occur to anyone that the federal government could have easily ended this issue years ago. It was started during World War II, with an invitation by the US federal government. And like all other issues, it was kept going by the business leaders not wanting the cheap labor to go away. Oh they may talk a good game, but when you look, a well placed donation can stall a bill or get a candidate elected into office.

The drug cartels that you mention started, after the fall of the Columbians. When the Columbian cartels were running drugs, they would go through Mexico, using the Mexicans as pack mules and the middle men. The US went in destroying the Columbian Cartels and the Mexicans watched and took notes, and set up their own cartels, far more violent and with a better precision, already having the contacts and routs.

Every country needs and has boarder security, would you allow a murder or a rapist into the country? Would you allow someone who is infectious into the country or even far worse? No there needs to be boarder security, and one that is more effective than it is currently.

We can not fix Mexico, the US is in no positon to go through and do any sort of nation building. Nor can we simply ship more jobs out of the USA to third world countries to help improve their lot in life. As sad as it is, it is time that we stop shipping and worrying about other countries and start to focus on the country we already have. In the past we have tried to help and what did it get us? A lot of trouble, and either countries that are unstable or we are supporting dictators. Take countries like Iran, or Iraq, or any other Middle Eastern or African countries, along with Central and South American countries, where the US has interfered in there in an attempt to make things better, only to make things far worse.

The only way that Mexico is going to change, and any other country is by the people who live there, and the US and other countries need to stop interfering in their internal policies and politics. That way it would give the citizens of those countries a chance to determine who they are and how they want to be. But at the same time the US needs to stop giving the millions and billions of dollars to those countries.

Of all of the countries in the world out there, the US has one of the easiest and most lax of immigration policies, but there in lies the problem. Unlike many of the other governmental offices, immigration is not funded by the tax payer, and it is cumbersome and bulky. We need to start deporting those coming across the boarder of the USA and ultimately start enforcing the laws of the country, to include the ceasing of sanctuary for those who break the law. At the same time the policy needs to be written and streamlined, then replace the old laws to make things easier.
Case be it as it may, illegal immigrants are breaking the law, and ultimately are no better than slaves, working for far less than many people and at the same endure far worse than their home country.

What we need to do is just open the borders and make the path to citizen ship easy for all. ( I have news for you...the borders are like swiss cheese already so opening the borders up won't really have any effect other then make illegal immigrants legal.) Now...if we make them all legal...they'll all be documented...all have social security cards...all pay taxes...etc etc etc. They'll just be like you and me only scumbags won't be able to hire them for less than the minimum wage, our hospital emergency rooms won't be clogged up, the federal and state governments will get more revenue. .

88 percent of the world’s population live in third world countries. 88 percent of 7 billion is about 6.2 billion. Im sure a good portion of them would love to be in the U. S.A. Do we allow them all to come over or just the mexicans?