Finally saw the full effect of Illegal Immigration in Los Angeles. We're in trouble.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

And why should I have to adapt? You validate my whole point on this thread.

Why should I have to learn a new language? That is one of the negative effects of Illegal Immigration. I didn't sign up to be a Spanish speaker. Illegals come HERE.

Also, where I live is mostly Armenians and Filipinos.

Do you suggest I learn THAT too? See my point about how out of control this has gotten?

originally posted by: ker2010

What we need to do is just open the borders and make the path to citizen ship easy for all. ( I have news for you...the borders are like swiss cheese already so opening the borders up won't really have any effect other then make illegal immigrants legal.) Now...if we make them all legal...they'll all be documented...all have social security cards...all pay taxes...etc etc etc. They'll just be like you and me only scumbags won't be able to hire them for less than the minimum wage, our hospital emergency rooms won't be clogged up, the federal and state governments will get more revenue. .

88 percent of the world’s population live in third world countries. 88 percent of 7 billion is about 6.2 billion. Im sure a good portion of them would love to be in the U. S.A. Do we allow them all to come over or just the Mexicans?

How hard is it for someone from India to immigrate here? Immigration laws are very complex and only about 675,000 legal immigrants are allowed in each year to the US. But what about those already here? That's the relevant question. Kick them out? Then kick them all out and completely close down any business that hires an illegal immigrant. But we won't do that either.

If we fear that too many immigrants are coming in, then why don't we close the borders tighter. Yet we never do, for some reason.

You can't half way do these things. Either kick Every illegal out. Every single one. or NONE. Either close the border up tight all the way or open it up. One or the other. Yet we never ever do any of these things. Why not?

originally posted by: MystikMushroom

The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.

I wonder how the indigenous Native Americans felt when all these undocumented immigrants from Europe started showing up, and demanding that everyone speak English?

As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.

So you're arguing FOR border policy I see.

Thank you!

originally posted by: amazing


You can't half way do these things. Either kick Every illegal out. Every single one. or NONE. Either close the border up tight all the way or open it up. One or the other. Yet we never ever do any of these things. Why not?

Political agendas I assume. I don't know why, ask the politicians they are the only ones who truly know. My Point was everyone who wants in this country cant obviously come we could not sustain them all. So we have to let them trickle in by going through the proper channels within our immigration laws and regulations which supporters of ILLEGAL immigration do not acknowledge.

My question to them is always there are people in much worse off country's than even Mexico who do not have a chance to come here.
Why isnt anyone crying for them to be allowed to be transported here as well since they think the borders should be open and we can sustain every last human being who wants in :/

originally posted by: sdcigarpig
a reply to: Krazysh0t

The federal government in Mexico has been corrupt for years. Long before the cartels ever set up in that country, the government is corrupt and tends to run rough shod over its population . Having lived on the border of Mexico, and talked with both people who visit and lived in Mexico, the common theme was corruption, that went from the highest levels down to the lower levels.

Consider this, if you are visiting Mexico, especially in any one of the boarder towns and cities, it is prudent to have about 100 to 150 in case to bribe the federal police should they stop you, and they will. And if you do not, they will take you to jail, where you sit until one sees the magistrate, and is able to get an attorney and is set free and sent back to the USA.

This goes back farther than the drug war, and is not about the drug war what so ever. If anything this issue has been around for years, and if anything it is more a political issue. Did it ever occur to anyone that the federal government could have easily ended this issue years ago. It was started during World War II, with an invitation by the US federal government. And like all other issues, it was kept going by the business leaders not wanting the cheap labor to go away. Oh they may talk a good game, but when you look, a well placed donation can stall a bill or get a candidate elected into office.

I am well aware of the bribe culture in Mexico, but you are lying to yourself if you think it isn't fueled by the drug war.

The drug cartels that you mention started, after the fall of the Columbians. When the Columbian cartels were running drugs, they would go through Mexico, using the Mexicans as pack mules and the middle men. The US went in destroying the Columbian Cartels and the Mexicans watched and took notes, and set up their own cartels, far more violent and with a better precision, already having the contacts and routs.

What you just described is an international game of whack a mole, which legalization would fix and put an end to.

Every country needs and has boarder security, would you allow a murder or a rapist into the country? Would you allow someone who is infectious into the country or even far worse? No there needs to be boarder security, and one that is more effective than it is currently.

Show me where I said we needed to end border security altogether. Last I checked, we still have border security going in and out of Canada and don't have an illegal immigrant problem with Canadians.

We can not fix Mexico, the US is in no positon to go through and do any sort of nation building. Nor can we simply ship more jobs out of the USA to third world countries to help improve their lot in life. As sad as it is, it is time that we stop shipping and worrying about other countries and start to focus on the country we already have. In the past we have tried to help and what did it get us? A lot of trouble, and either countries that are unstable or we are supporting dictators. Take countries like Iran, or Iraq, or any other Middle Eastern or African countries, along with Central and South American countries, where the US has interfered in there in an attempt to make things better, only to make things far worse.

First off, never say can't, especially if you've never tried. That is just a defeatist attitude that ends up self-fulfilling. Second off, the Middle East is a FAR different animal politically than Mexico is. Mexico is a bit closer to home when it comes to political thought as well as individual thought. Saying that we will fail in Mexico because we failed in the Middle East is disingenuous. As far as the Central and South American countries go. We weren't rebuilding those countries, we were letting corporations destabilize them (which you may recognize is the exact OPPOSITE of what I want us to do to Mexico). Third, isolationism in this day and age is dead. Though it's funny you bring that up while talking about Central and South America. The US was NEVER isolationist as can be seen by the imperialism we inflicted on our neighbors to the south before we got involved in the rest of the world's affairs.

The only way that Mexico is going to change, and any other country is by the people who live there, and the US and other countries need to stop interfering in their internal policies and politics. That way it would give the citizens of those countries a chance to determine who they are and how they want to be. But at the same time the US needs to stop giving the millions and billions of dollars to those countries.

Of all of the countries in the world out there, the US has one of the easiest and most lax of immigration policies, but there in lies the problem. Unlike many of the other governmental offices, immigration is not funded by the tax payer, and it is cumbersome and bulky. We need to start deporting those coming across the boarder of the USA and ultimately start enforcing the laws of the country, to include the ceasing of sanctuary for those who break the law. At the same time the policy needs to be written and streamlined, then replace the old laws to make things easier.
Case be it as it may, illegal immigrants are breaking the law, and ultimately are no better than slaves, working for far less than many people and at the same endure far worse than their home country.

We already DO deport illegals. Why do people on your side or argument pretend like no one is getting deported? We ARE deporting them, and we are doing it as fast as we can catch them. Though there are just too many. Which means that deportation isn't the answer. It's time to try something else. Deportation had its turn, time to try something new. What was the definition of crazy again?

It's funny how people call the OP a racists only while he is pointing out the facts that are very real.

I can share my own story that happened not even two weeks ago when I had to bring a member of my family to the Hospital here in San Diego, specific Scripps Hospital which is a private Hospital that provides ER services. As the OP pointed out, basic ER services are covered even the recipient can't pay for it which seems to be taken advantage off. Not judging here but relaying my impression - read the whole post to understand where I am going.

When I arrived it was basically the same picture, probably 90% hispanic with the TV running Spanish Soap Operas while another TV was showing a soccer game in Spanish. Now, the staff was almost completely black and white - no hispanic - and none of the staff seemed to speak Spanish because there was a lot of pointing to signs and numbers when they dealt with Spanish speaking people. Not all waiting were "Mexicans" but there was also at least one couple from El Salvador while another man was from Columbia which is important to know below.

While I was waiting to actually get into the ER area (you have to go through a two step process), I was looking around and I noticed something very distinct. None of the people didn't really expose any "emergency" symptoms and it seemed that they had been waiting for a long time. Sure enough they were sick with coughs, running noises, etc - One guy had an issue walking - all medical issues but no emergencies - this was odd and I regularly avoid going to the ER so I can really say if this is normal, but I assume that ER is for true medical emergencies like the girl that came in with her mother who was drugged up to the top and screaming bloody murder or the older lady that couldn't breath and got immediately admitted. Another odd thing was that there were actually TWO security guards for the small ER area. They probably had issues in the past I believe? Well, long story short, it seemed that people know that they can get "free" medical services if they just show up and the staff seemed knowingly frustrated about this situation trying to regulate the severity of each case.

Finally we got admitted after waiting about 20min - we had actually a serious condition and they admitted as soon as they could. We arrived at the ER station with about 6-8 variable spaces which were all filled with people. They started treatment on my family member immediately but I had to wait outside of the separated areas - well they separated with flimsy curtains. So I was standing in the middle of the ER room and I could see most of the individuals in their spaces .. talk about privacy. I guess you don't care if you are that sick that you have to go to the ER.

But here was something that again was very obvious - only two patients (including my family member) had serious conditions and had full attention, the other cases were just sitting/laying - talking/laughing - two families brought even their kids with them (that's a complete separate topic) .. and most of them were from hispanic origin. Obviously I don't know anything about their conditions but it didn't like serious conditions because most of them were very relaxed.

Now, ER visits take a long time - In my case 7h (!) .. geez .. but during that time you see a lot of people coming and leaving and there was that one situation that really made me mad and summarizes the whole issue: After 2h, I saw the man from Columbia with his family coming in and an hour later he stormed out yelling and his daughter arguing with the doctor (in English!) how disrespectful the hospital treated them. WOW - What is going on? The doctor calmly explained RIGHT IN FRONT OF ME to the daughter that state-law prevents the Hospital to administer a certain drug that he needed without proper identification and knowledge about his medical history. It was very simple - the hospital was following the LAW - and after this event I talked with a friend who is actually working in that field and he told me that a drug dispensed by the ER room is subject to a complete different cost structure as a normal prescription and that people usually don't pay for that. So, the funny thing is that this was not the only case of trying to "abuse" the system but I actually saw 2 more individuals who got admitted to the ER and tried to get "free" drugs within the 7h I was there!

Let's conclude this before I write a book: There is a huge problem and the problem is really deep -there is an assumption that if you come to the United States that you get "free" stuff and worse, none of these people want to adapt. It's almost always first generations - the children have no other choice than to adapt "currently".. but I wonder for how long.

Personally I believe anybody should be able to live anywhere that they want.For anyone who believes in God what do you think God thinks about putting restrictions on living somewhere or for those who believe in Jeses what do you think Jesus would say about it all.Also do you think its okay for you to live in their country but not in America? Or whats thedifferent between an intailian or a japanese person or family coming to live in America.It just seems silly and wrong to me to tell someone they cant live somewhere and trying to keep them from going to that place.I dont get it.

More evidence of paranoid immigrant fear. A bold American tradition since before 1492...

"but, but, but...it's different this time!" No, it isn't. Same old story. Same sad old story of fear.

I got to the car wash....can't understand the guy speaking Armenian to me, he lost my keys and has to get his boss to barely explain to me in broken English why this happened...he's probably here on a "Family Unity" program...gets assitance per month from the Government to live here...and probably hocks his food stamps in the park (well known park)

After that's fixed I get to the doughnut shop for a smoothie and there's a guy who speaks Tagalog arguing with a Persian Armenian in two different languages...while I can barely understand the Vietnamese girl behind the counter...

I drive out and I'm behind a 1982 Toyota truck full of chopped branches and two guys that look like they just came here from the mountains in Chiapas Mexico...and they're endangering traffic with tools almost falling off the back of the truck and branches sticking out....and if they get stopped, they can't get fined or nothing because the cops don't know WHAT to do with them. And if they do get deported, they just come right back.

I go to a hospital and two triage nurses can't speak English properly when I'm near Anaphylaxis, and wrong info MIGHT just KILL ME...

This has gone too far. This country won't survive like this. It won't progress.

originally posted by: Flowfessional
Personally I believe anybody should be able to live anywhere that they want.For anyone who believes in God what do you think God thinks about putting restrictions on living somewhere or for those who believe in Jeses what do you think Jesus would say about it all.Also do you think its okay for you to live in their country but not in America? Or whats thedifferent between an intailian or a japanese person or family coming to live in America.It just seems silly and wrong to me to tell someone they cant live somewhere and trying to keep them from going to that place.I dont get it.

This is a RELIGIOUS argument for you?

a reply to: Night Star

They had respect. They weren't catered to. They didn't tell us we had to speak THEIR language!

I think this pretty much sums up what this is all about

Did you think America was going to stay the same forever and ever - and ever? Which kind of America do you personally like best? Where should we stop the wheel?

The part with the Native Americans being slaughtered? The part with the slaves? Chinese building the railroads? Mexicans working the fields?

English...

Historically, English originated from the fusion of closely related dialects, now collectively termed Old English, which were brought to the eastern coast of Great Britain by Germanic settlers (Anglo-Saxons) by the 5th century; the word English is simply the modern spelling of englisc, the name used by the Angles[15] and Saxons for their language, after the Angles’ ancestral region of Angeln (in what is now Schleswig-Holstein). The language was also influenced early on by the Old Norse language through Viking invasions in the 9th and 10th centuries.

The Norman conquest of England in the 11th century gave rise to heavy borrowings from Norman French, and vocabulary and spelling conventions began to give the appearance of a close relationship with those of Latin-derived Romance languages (though English is not a Romance language itself)[16][17] to what had then become Middle English. The Great Vowel Shift that began in the south of England in the 15th century is one of the historical events that mark the emergence of Modern English from Middle English.

Yada, yada, yada...

The only thing constant in life is change

Nationalism - gotta love it

originally posted by: BatheInTheFountain
a reply to: Krazysh0t

And why should I have to adapt? You validate my whole point on this thread.

Hey you can fight it all you want. You'll be the one unable to communicate in your community, constantly frustrated because no one speaks your language (literally).

Why should I have to learn a new language? That is one of the negative effects of Illegal Immigration. I didn't sign up to be a Spanish speaker. Illegals come HERE.

I never said you HAVE to do anything. I said you should do what is the easiest. If you want to harumph and not learn the language that is on you. Just don't complain when you can't get anything accomplished. You don't dictate who lives in your community. So complaining about it will accomplish nothing.

Also, where I live is mostly Armenians and Filipinos.

Do you suggest I learn THAT too? See my point about how out of control this has gotten?

I don't know, does everyone speak Filipino to the point you can't communicate in English?

a reply to: flyandi

Amazing.

When I was in the ER I saw these guys with almost NO "emergency" symptoms. They fast tracked me though the top of the line out of maybe 60 people because I was TRUE emergency. One guy was there for a WART on his finger. One women was there for pain in her arm. Another guy was there (Hispanic gang member) because he was too high off of Heroin.

Like I said, I speak maybe half Spanish, well enough. And I heard these people getting quiet when the billing person came into the final room where 15 of us 'outgoing' patients were waiting. They wrote down numbers on papers and I knew these people weren't going to pay.

The county absorbs the costs for them and I know it.

As far as what they come for. My Mother used to actually do billing for the county. She showed me a folder of her patients billing she was working on. 60% of them were "Non SSN" or "No Citizenship Status".

Wanna know what these guys were getting from County Services? Effing VIAGRA Prescriptions.

That is what's going on. Thanks for sharing your story.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

I want to ask you a question.

Have you ever been to Los Angeles?

I dare anyone that refutes this thread to come to Los Angeles...visit here and hit every city here at least once. Or better yet...try living here.

There is no "Melting Pot". The Multi-Culturalism bought in by people that don't assimilate, along with the language barriers, loss of services, loss of resources... has FAILED. It's NOT working. It creates chaos. It isn't sustainable and Americans (White, Black, Hispanic, Asian) just throw up their hands like WTF...

We don't know what to do anymore.

originally posted by: ker2010

originally posted by: amazing


You can't half way do these things. Either kick Every illegal out. Every single one. or NONE. Either close the border up tight all the way or open it up. One or the other. Yet we never ever do any of these things. Why not?

Political agendas I assume. I don't know why, ask the politicians they are the only ones who truly know. My Point was everyone who wants in this country cant obviously come we could not sustain them all. So we have to let them trickle in by going through the proper channels within our immigration laws and regulations which supporters of ILLEGAL immigration do not acknowledge.

My question to them is always there are people in much worse off country's than even Mexico who do not have a chance to come here.
Why inst anyone crying for them to be allowed to be transported here as well since they think the borders should be open and we can sustain every last human being who wants in :/

It all boils down to one Question though "What do we do with the illegal immigrants who are already here." That's the real question.

So one last point. Are legal immigrants coming from all aspects of the world trying to become legal U.S. citizens now going to have another obligation of not only learning basic English, but Spanish as well. Seems to me, this is the arguement that should be asked, as any law abiding immigrant trying to obtain U.S. citizen ship has to know basic English, and has for over 2 centuries.

Hey Bath, That's The Point of it All CHAOS!!! Your Owners TPTB want it this way. It's all the better to plunder what's left in this country. They could care less if The People who come here illegally are all Child Molesters, Murderers or Rapists. It just causes more Chaos which is a Great Distraction for all of The Citizenry here in The US. It's Great Cover so No One Pays Attention.

It's not as if The PTB are going to take all these people from all these countries with them when they Skidadlle with All The Loot. Nope they'll be living on some nice island somewhere with Very Obedient Nice Looking Servants and as far as the American People are concerned, they can All Just Vuch Themselves as they have Long Since renounced anything to do with The US Citizenship or otherwise.

Don't worry, if The Owners didn't want them here they would be out of this country in a heartbeat. That's how it is and always has been here in The Good Ol USA. Peace Arjunanda. a reply to: BatheInTheFountain

a reply to: Cambot
www.census.gov...

English is the language spoken by most people in the United States. The official language of many states is English1 and it is the language used in nearly all governmental functions.

Since English is the main language used, any other could be classified as "foreign".

originally posted by: whyamIhere
We have completely lost Los Angeles.

Next thing you know they will rename the city some Spanish word!...oh wait...