Sexism, Misogyny and the rise and rise and rise of the internet asshole....

I must admit, it is enjoyable reading men's opinions on what they think women need. Of course, for better or worse, this is the way it has always been.

Defending women simply because they are women is still sexism.

Great thread and op!

Sure there are problems with anonymity. I'm anonymous here. And, yes, anyone on the internet can be the victim of trolling or bullying or harassment.

There is a whole subset of these issues targeting women though. And it's sickening. Just start googling Gamergate and you'll see it's ugly head.

Women do make less than men, women who are part of a religious group/community/country under Islam, Christianity and Judaism are taught to be second class and subservient to men. There is a real problem with the way men think of women.

It's almost like a large section of men in our world think that women are not equal to men. In fact we only gave women in the United states the right to vote several decades ago. How backwards of a society are we.

Whenever I see someone use the term feminazi or degrade a women with sexist remarks, I realize they just have really low self esteem or are caught up in one of the cults of Abraham. It's that simple. Either you think women are equal or you''re the problem. I have no time for retarded belief systems.

Feminism is a must and extreme feminism is so important. Long live all the feminists, Feman, P-Riot and everyone else in the front lines fighting for equality.

Everyone opposing this? Go back in your caves. You'll be extinct soon, the rest of us are evolving.

a reply to: IlluminatiTechnician

The truth is, those who have held power don't like to be challenged or threatened and if they feel like they are losing their grip, they turn and attack. That's the truth, that's why certain insecure weak mysogynistic men turn on women, especially on anonymous online forums.

originally posted by: nenothtu

originally posted by: Leonidas

"Feminists" don't hate men, they don't think they speak for all women and they don't give women a bad name!

I can only comment on this subjectively, going by the feminists I have personally met, on college campuses and the like. You're right, they don't "hate" men - they think every woman should own at least 3 men of her very own. The one's I've interacted with don't want to merely "level the field" or "incite equality", they want to subjugate men.

That's only the ones I'VE interacted with, however. You, apparently, have run across a different sort.

This is the only kind I have ever met or heard from too. I mean come on, there's whole online porn industry designed around the premise of women subjugating men and exploiting them for sex. We men should not have to be exploited in such a way.

a reply to: OpinionatedB

You don't have any right to tell people not to use examples of oppression of women in other cultures, just because you have the same religion. Unfortunately some Muslim countries are oppressive to women, they do force women to cover up, and people have every right to discuss that.

a reply to: amazing

True story, one of my neighbors burned down my house. Crazy dude for sure... but seemingly a normal neighbor. Turns out he was some kind of a white supremacist.

Would have been great to know what he was all about prior to loosing every single thing I owned. Instead... he hid every single thought and feeling inside of him.. until one day he burned down my house.

Truth is... some people are nuts, and its better to know who the crazy one's are.. easier to keep an eye on them for sure.

Thing is, in day to day life everyone hides all this about themselves... I would simply rather know what I am dealing with head on... verses the sneak attacks at night.

originally posted by: IlluminatiTechnician

Anyway, blame feminists for this because they have turned men against women because of the lies, animosity, attacks against men and even being so calculated as to create programs where they concentrate on trying to effeminate young boys, so that they will be more controlled by women when they get to be an adult. Why not let a man just be a man?

Whoa, whoa, whoa...hold up there hoss.

"They" haven't "turned men against women". Your perception of what they are has turned YOU against women.

Look at that. You have said that you are against women. Think about that statement at it's core, what it really means.

And feminists have no interest in making "effeminate young boys'. Good lord, anything but. But mothers AND fathers have a responsibility to make sure that our sons learn how to treat women with respect.

Seriously, what experiences have you been through that honestly make you think your statement represents reality. YOUR experience. The "feminists" you are describing sounds like a ball-busting lesbian diesel-dyke caricature straight out of Central Casting.

My blonde haired, blue-eyed "girly-girl" wife who loves heels and dresses and make-up and me holding the door for her is a Feminist of the first order. Men have driving the wagon for millennia. They are trying to right the balance. They are standing up for themselves.

And...get this...not all feminists agree on what issues are the most important. They don't even all agree with each other or have a secret handshake. Or how to go about it. Many of them actually have their own ideas about what is right and what is fair.

Personally, I find a woman with confidence pretty sexy. Even with her high-fallutin' uppity ways and stubborn ideas!

a reply to: WilsonWilson

I know a woman, a lebanese women. She was a religious woman, yet... never covered her head after coming to the United States.

One day, I asked her why didn't she cover. She said because I have to fit in here... So I responded and said, but I cover and fit in just fine. She said, you were born here which makes you an American and its your right. I don't have the same right to be whoever I want to be.

I thought that was the saddest thing I ever heard... here is a woman who believed in covering her head.. yet felt she could not in this country - because she didn't feel she had the same rights as someone born here.

She thought I of all people was the strong one, for having the guts to do what I believed in... she didn't have the same guts...

I felt so damn sorry for her... because she let others dictate her behavior. She couldn't stand up for herself in the face of others.

Some people really BELIEVE this is right! Please UNDERSTAND THAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! its not oppression for them!

The oppression comes when you are forcing someone to do what they DONT believe in! It is not for you to decide. It is for them. Leave them out of your arguments...

originally posted by: IlluminatiTechnician


No one today has been "oppressed", if there was real oppression, it happened so far back that none of us living today were a part of it. That said, why are women today, having movements and getting affirmative action status, and being called a minority when they were not a part of this oppression that they are ranting about?

Women are the largest "minority" that I've ever heard of - check out the stats, particularly for the US, Australia, and UK, the bastions of feminism.

a reply to: OpinionatedB

I do agree with you! Which is why I always argue against banning clothing like this, nobody has a right to force a women either to wear or not to wear whatever they want.

a reply to: nenothtu

I agree I don't like the term minority, it makes us sound like a small group fighting for equality, we are in fact 50% or more of the population, yet are still having to struggle for something.g as simple as equal pay.

a reply to: WilsonWilson

And this I agree with.. It takes more guts to wear a long dress and a headscarf in western countries than to simply go to macy's and shop for the latest fashions. But some women have that much guts to stand up and say this is me...

But seriously... using niqab or anything like that.. in an argument for censoring the internet.. it downright BS. Unless the topic is Muslim women, I don't think Muslim women need brought into every single feminist argument there is!

Yet, invariably, we are!

Our reality is so much different than the reality in western countries as to be a moot point in a feminist argument. Or... if it ever were to be an argument in your feminism at all... it would be to show just how much freedom you really do have.

You have a million freedoms... don't speak of us, unless we are the topic.

a reply to: WilsonWilson

You know... I have been reading a lot about ancient Irish women.. they were very strong women! I like them...very good role models - they even fought in wars by the sides of their men!

I think.. in many instances, its about women regaining a place they once held. I would wonder sometimes how all that got lost... but lost it did get.

Thing is, you have to prove who you are... and be worthy of all you get. Everything takes time... and prove yourself as you go.

Many people don't want to hire me... but when I get hired... I prove myself. That is all women have to do!

a reply to: OpinionatedB

Again I'm sorry just because you a Muslim women doesn't mean you have any right to tell others not to discuss them. Unfortunately Muslim countries are some of the most obvious examples of oppression of women in the world, because yes, you are lucky to live in a country where you have a choice to cover or not. They don't.
The poster used the example to show that too often women are blamed for the actions of men. Rather then men controlling their lust women are forced to cover, rather than men controlling their abusive language, women are told to leave forums if they don't like it.

a reply to: OpinionatedB

That's fine if the same rule is used for everyone, everyone must prove themselves, if only women do, then that is a problem.

originally posted by: zazzafrazz

I also know your Islamic religion defines women differently. so I will respectfully decline commenting with you on it as I like you and don't want to get into a scarp with you on what a woman should be. I personally think it isn't a societal broad brushstroke definition, it is individual and I respect you feel that way about yourself and am pleased for you that you found a place you are comfortable. Your place is not for everyone so be respectful of that.

And there is the key, I think. Respect, for people and who they are, AS they are.

Allow me to tell a little story about OB.

When we first got together, she was concerned that I might take exeception to the way she presents herself. She actually outright asked me "would it bother you if I wear hijab in public when we're together?"

I was flabbergasted, so replied "No, why would it?" I was genuinely perplexed, didn't see where what she was wearing was any of my business.

"Well, people will stare. They'll stare at ME, but they'll also stare at YOU."

To this day, I still can't comprehend why that would be a problem. It's not up to me to determine their prejudices for them, nor is it up to me to enforce compliance with THEIR prejudices. What they choose to stare at or about seems to be a personal problem to me.

But it worried her.

Now, when I fell in love, it was not with a hijab, nor was it with a bikini. it was with a WOMAN, and everything that came with her. I can't, for the life of me, figure out why I would want to change that, or change her - if I made her someone else, that wouldn't be who I fell in love with.

I would be figuratively cutting my own throat, for no good reason.

If she wants to work, I don't bitch. if she wants to stay at home, i don't bitch. If she wants to wear a full hijab, I don't bitch. If she wants to wear a smile and a flower behind her ear, and not much else, I don't bitch. It's not up to me to "remake" her. That would be tantamount to saying "I don't like who you are, and have to turn you into something I didn't fall in love with to begin with".

It just makes no sense to me.

So I'm thinking you're right - it's the respect for the other that is key, but to my mind reformatting the "other" is WAY short of "respect", regardless of who , or what, "the other" is.

What should a woman be? Whatever the hell she wants to. That's not for someone else to decide, whether that "someone" is a feminist or a masculine throwback to the Neanderthals. Just as in the case of the reactions to the hijab, that sounds like a personal problem to me.

Feminism is not an excuse for men acting/behaving like animals, threatening rape and violence.

And anyone who think it is - frankly - needs to rethink their place in society

a reply to: WilsonWilson

Have you ever been to those countries and sat down - yourself - and spoken with those women about what they believed ect?

I have... some its a mixed bag on that. Some women love covering, and some women would rather not. The women who love it wouldn't be caught dead without it.

But that is their fight, and their culture... not yours. Let them do things their way. They are not your example. I don't use western women as an example in my arguments against things... I don't talk about western women like they are deaf dumb and blind within their hearing...

It rude. You see arranged marriages as bad things, I happen to see them as good. You see wearing niqab as bad... I think its a matter of personal choice. Much of what you rail about... is our beliefs as a whole. And many of us really believe in all the stuff you see as just plain crap.

a reply to: nenothtu

And when you put your hands on your hips and say "I rule the roost" you cannot do it without laughing! hahaha

originally posted by: WilsonWilson
ya reply to: nenothtu

you have no idea what you are talking about,

Well of course I don't! I'm just "a man being a man", I reckon! How would I, of all people, have any idea of interacting with Muslims or getting along with them?

I do interact with them, that's my whole point, I have female Muslim work colleges, female Muslim neighbours, female muslim parents of my children's friends. To suggest that I could never comment on their lives is just plain weird. This whole forum would fall apart if the only people we could discuss were of our own faith and sex.

And you seem to have missed my entire point - imposing YOUR mores and norms on "the other" is NOT "interacting", it's "dictating".

The poster who used the example had every right to in the context of this thread.

Without a doubt, she has that right - just as anyone with a varying opinion ALSO has the right, in her own words:

Or just make these slight remarks and say things that aren't supposedly any bad, but actually are very insulting. But no, I don't do that. And if I would, these people would have all the right to tell me that I'm a mean lady and should shut my pie-hole. And rightly so, because I should treat others with respect and civility.

You, she, and I ALL have the right to speak -we do not, any of us, have the right not to be called out for it. That would cut into OTHER people's rights to also speak.

To coin an eminently sexist phrase, "what's good for the goose is good for the gander".