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Sexism, Misogyny and the rise and rise and rise of the internet asshole....

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posted on Nov, 30 2014 @ 03:39 AM
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originally posted by: HarbingerOfShadows
a reply to: Bluesma

www.abovetopsecret.com...


So... there isn't one.

The argument that we can just use an ignore function is invalid then.




posted on Nov, 30 2014 @ 03:43 AM
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a reply to: Bluesma

Too bad I wasn't talking about just this forum.



posted on Nov, 30 2014 @ 04:16 AM
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originally posted by: HarbingerOfShadows
a reply to: Bluesma

Too bad I wasn't talking about just this forum.


I see that. As the other poster said "not all forums or social media have a mute button", I guess the response "It's called ignore" was not applicable, as she said, to all forums or social media.



posted on Nov, 30 2014 @ 04:24 AM
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a reply to: Malynn

Oh and.

Men harassing women is a BILLION times more prevalent than women harassing men. The comparison is almost laughable.


And really, what I have been experiencing thus far from both yourself, the OP, and a few other users could be construed as harrassment.
Not that I am inclined to allow myself feel like a victim, I believe it shows a key weakness in the arguments of others and am thankful for it.
However the fact still remains.
Lets see I've been called stupid, a misogynist, definitely have had my views intentionally misrepresented and probably a few others I've missed.
All for disagreeing while not offering any insults on my own.



edit on 30-11-2014 by HarbingerOfShadows because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 30 2014 @ 05:00 AM
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*****ATTENTION ALL MEMBERS*****

We would like to remind you that we expect civility and decorum in all forums, topics, and discussions. Continuing to post in a manner not in accordance with the T&C's can and will result in post removals and/or posting bans. Please continue your discussions with an eye on the topic and not your fellow members. Please also remember to stay on topic and stop any and all attempts to derail the discussion before you.

Thank you.

You Are Responsible For Your Own posts.

We Expect Civility & Decorum In All Topics.



posted on Nov, 30 2014 @ 05:05 AM
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originally posted by: HarbingerOfShadows
a reply to: Malynn

Oh and.

Men harassing women is a BILLION times more prevalent than women harassing men. The comparison is almost laughable.


And really, what I have been experiencing thus far from both yourself, the OP, and a few other users could be construed as harrassment.
Not that I am inclined to allow myself feel like a victim, I believe it shows a key weakness in the arguments of others and am thankful for it.
However the fact still remains.
Lets see I've been called stupid, a misogynist, definitely have had my views intentionally misrepresented and probably a few others I've missed.
All for disagreeing while not offering any insults on my own.




I have done none of that.
I agreed with you that there are feminists that claim to want equality, and yet support things like imposed quotas for hiring of sexes. That is self contradictory.
Instead of simply acknowledging we were in agreement on that, both using sarcasm to say so,
You went into a focus on use of sarcasm as distraction technique.

Here, instead of responding to the message, you focused on the terminology and used sarcasm-
"It's called an ignore function" instead of "
"You are correct there, we agree, that sort of function does not exist on all forums and social media."

Just because one disagrees with a part of anothers view doesn't mean they can't honestly and directly acknowledge that on one detail, you both agree.



Your response opened the door to the interpretation that you were disagreeing with her statement, and claiming all forums and social media have such a feature, which got my hopes up that you were correct!
That would be a nice feature to have!
edit on 30-11-2014 by Bluesma because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 30 2014 @ 06:42 AM
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a reply to: Bluesma

I didn't say you did.
That was directed at Malynn.
You haven't been insulting, at least, I haven't noticed anything that I would call insulting.
edit on 30-11-2014 by HarbingerOfShadows because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 30 2014 @ 08:22 AM
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a reply to: Bluesma
Yeah, but here we have the report button, and threats and personal attacks will just be removed. Better than an ignore button in my opinion. An ignore button just hides things from your view, report button removes rubbish from everyone's view.



posted on Nov, 30 2014 @ 08:58 AM
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a reply to: HarbingerOfShadows

Poking holes in your arguments is not "harrassing you" and in no way compares to being threatened with rape or torture, or actual harassment for daring to participate online. I must have missed the post where someone called you stupid. Did you report it?



posted on Nov, 30 2014 @ 09:22 AM
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originally posted by: InTheLight
Everyday sexism project - this is everyone's business...not just a woman's issue.

usa.everydaysexism.com...

A thought about not choosing to be a bystander when others are being threatened and abused online or offline.



he was doing good till he started in with the white guilt thing. doesn't he realize that banging that drum leads to more women being killed, not just harrassed online? you would be appalled at the violence against women in south africa. i mean they kill those white women in the worst way possible.



posted on Nov, 30 2014 @ 10:08 AM
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a reply to: undo



I believe that if some people try to better understand the social and psychological dynamics of online and offline bullying and threatening the bystander apathy affect may be realized. Sometimes change comes very slowly.
edit on 30-11-2014 by InTheLight because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 30 2014 @ 10:38 AM
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a reply to: Malynn
There are people that actually think that people voicing opinions that do not match theirs is harassment. These same people often insult and demean people with differing opinions as well, then cry that they are being attacked when insults are tossed back at them.



posted on Nov, 30 2014 @ 11:27 AM
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originally posted by: neformore
Once again, the thread topic is about the way women are treated online by a certain section of male society. Which is what I'm trying to discuss here.

No, this thread is about your endorphins.

You wrote a rant directed at an audience where few if *any* are participating in the activities you are upset about. If anyone does engage in the behavior that upsets you, this community is quite effective at dealing with it at a user and moderator level.

The people you think need to hear what you have to say, will have not heard it, therefore you've done nothing more than enjoy that jolt of pleasure one gets when they preach the obvious to the choir of sycophancy.

The people you are upset about, LOVE to watch you get upset. They LOVE to watch you devolve into physical violence threats. They don't care that you hate them. That's a victory. They don't care if you try to enact rules against them. It's just a new challenge to figure out how to get under your skin.

Here is the thing that is most relevant to your thread. THEY DON'T CARE ABOUT YOUR GENDER. They care about whatever weakness they can exploit to get you to dance to their tune.

If they can't target your gender, they'll target your looks. If they can't target your looks, they'll target your beliefs (even if they agree with them).

YOU give them their power by behaving the way they want to see you behave.

YOU dis-empower women by telling them they are so weak they shouldn't have to learn to ignore trolls the way everyone else does.

You are not out there helping figure out who sent Anita Sarkeesian threats (in part because everyone knows the answer will be very uncomfortable).

You are not on Twitter confronting the trolls directly. You are ranting to an audience who by and large already agrees with you, even if they disagree with the variety of responses that will make a difference.

No, you are on a forum where the issue you are concerned about is already well in hand, and the population is not engaging in the behavior that concerns you.

This thread is about you enjoying the endorphins of group think as evidenced by how little you care when people try to inform you that the thing you are concerned about has nothing to do with sexism or misogyny and the people who are upsetting you will exploit ANY weakness in any person's self confidence they can find.

We have ALL been hearing for decades the concerns for females. Males have been learning from an early age that NOBODY gives a damn. They should just toughen up. Which is what they did. And when they go out into the world and don't fall apart everytime they experience something unpleasant to them and succeed regardless, they are blamed for having privilege.
edit on 30-11-2014 by TrenchRun because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 30 2014 @ 11:51 AM
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originally posted by: Malynn
We get it: you think men have the right to verbally abuse women online and that right should be protected.

No, we get it.

I was just at thanksgiving. I watched as a grown woman in her 50's slapped a man in his 20's "playfully" to "make her point". I watched as the entire gathering allowed her to do this. I watched as the man was clearly upset by this, but felt he had no legitimate recourse except to sit in silence. To even call her out, much less raise his voice, would immediately bring ire upon him by male and female alike.

This doesn't begin to touch the emotional and verbal abuse of a mother to her son in front of everyone. His only response to what amounted to a mother making fun of his weight and hobbies in front of a dozen people, was a smirk, and he was still treated as the "smartass" that doesn't respect his mother.

Everyone just wanted peace, and it is automatically assumed that the fastest way to peace is for the man to shut up, sit down, and suck up whatever insult the woman offered. Even people who felt she was in the wrong were clearly just wanting the man to absorb it and stay silent so we could enjoy "family time".

No, we totally get it. You don't CARE about this. You only care about any instances a woman feels uncomfortable even if she is not experiencing anything different from what every man experiences in an equal circumstance.

For certain people... equality doesn't mean Equality, it means all the benefits of being a man, without all the bull#, and all the benefits of being a woman, while complaining about all the bull#.

No, we get it. Do you?

Are you listening to the shifting of the pendulum?
edit on 30-11-2014 by TrenchRun because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 30 2014 @ 12:19 PM
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a reply to: Spiramirabilis


You want to pretend that language is harmless and words are innocent. Bullets are also innocent - intent is everything


The topic seems to always shift back to me and what I want. If intention is everything, what is your intention by continually doing this?


This thread is about online abuse of women - and misogyny. So, whatever or whoever else you might decide doesn't deserve your common courtesy or support - this thread is definitely about women


And a beautiful thread it is. I wonder if we put a video camera on someone, no matter what gender, and recorded them getting abused online, observed them as they were brutalized by online misogyny so that we could all face this horror, what that might look like from this perspective? I wager it would look exactly like someone sitting in a chair at their computer, maybe typing, maybe even sipping coffee. I’d like to see them go to a battered wife, a battered slave, a torture victim, or a battered child, and tell them about how they were abused online, how they were forced against their will to type in forums and read responses of a misogynist nature, all while chained mere feet from their only salvation, the power button just out of their reach.

But it seems apparent that those in this very thread against misogyny, have no problem being just as slanderous, threatening, belittling, and in your case, dehumanizing, as long as it isn’t directed at themselves and people like them. All that talk of good behavior, that support, that civility, that courtesy, that respect, to one another, thrown right out the window at the exact same time it is promoted.


It's all the real world. The thing that connects us is language. Our words mean the same thing online as they do off - and hate is hate in here as much as it is out there. We are known by what we say Pinocchio. It's my sincere hope that one day you will become a real boy


Perhaps you are right, Spira. This weary body has seen too much of the world that I am maybe too naive with the online universe and its apparent culture. The folk-psychology, the double standards, the continually asserting without argument, the lack of attention span—it’s all foreign to me. I’ll let you know when I become real again.



posted on Nov, 30 2014 @ 12:33 PM
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a reply to: LesMisanthrope


The topic seems to always shift back to me and what I want. If intention is everything, what is your intention by continually doing this?

If we're to have a meaningful dialogue - it has to be a back and forth. It isn't about you then is it? It's about us. I see myself as part of a community - you don't


But it seems apparent that those in this very thread against misogyny, have no problem being just as slanderous, threatening, belittling, and in your case, dehumanizing, as long as it isn’t directed at themselves and people like them. All that talk of good behavior, that support, that civility, that courtesy, that respect, to one another, thrown right out the window at the exact same time it is promoted.


:-)

What does it matter Les? None of it is real. None of it affects you. And more importantly - none of my best efforts (apparently) have sunk in

I reread the post I responded to last night twice - after I had already replied. Then once again this morning

I saw something there I didn't see at first, but now that I do it changes everything

We're done



posted on Nov, 30 2014 @ 01:06 PM
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a reply to: TrenchRun

I'm puzzled... you have spent what - 10 -20 mins? typing that out to not discuss the topic itself but instead to try and project some kind of erstaz belief of why I started it. You come across as angry.

You've even told me what I am and am not doing off ATS

And you also somehow seem to think I was referring to things that happen on ATS, when thats never been said at all.

In a topic thats clearly about women being harrassed by men - after I've explained over and over again the subject matter here you are talking about mens rights.

I'm sorry that you clearly can't comprehend what I was discussing. I really am.

Its that or you are deliberately trolling the thread.

I'm assuming its the former. I do hope its not the latter. Either way, given what you've written you might be better off simply walking away, as the subject matter appears to be upsetting you.



posted on Nov, 30 2014 @ 01:09 PM
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a reply to: neformore
Interesting thread Nefermore. I've been reading along from the beginning. I've been reading a lot outside of this thread here at ATS about feminism from several different angles, and of course there is so much more to read all over the internet...

There's at the same time been all the arguing over Ferguson - the two themes kinda got mixed a little in my head. For a reason

From your OP:


I often see people condemn moderate Muslims for not speaking out against terrorism (they do, BTW, it doesn't get reported) and I think its about time the decent guys out here actually started to try and take the 'net back from the assholes out there.


Here in our country freedom of speech is king. I have a hard time arguing against it myself, and I realize that that freedom comes with a lot of crap. That freedom is worth whatever comes with it. But,we live in the grey areas in real life - not in the black and white. When push comes to shove, I'm going to use that same freedom to fight against treating people in a threatening manner - every chance I get. Nobody's rights need be violated - it's just a matter of standing up, opening your mouth - putting yourself and what you believe in on the line. Live in that moment - it's not difficult

Same as you starting this thread

The argument against doing this makes sense if a person believes I'm free to say whatever I want, however I want to whoever I want . I hear all this arguing against feminists - about how they essentially shouldn't complain. They should shut-up. As if freedom of speech doesn't apply to them

I love the internet. Maybe I'm delusional, but I recognize that the internet is full of life - and living people

In the end I guess no matter what your point of view - certain things become obvious. Like i said - interesting thread
edit on 11/30/2014 by Spiramirabilis because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 30 2014 @ 01:10 PM
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a reply to: LesMisanthrope

You've missed the point.

Its not that they have the power to turn it off.

Its that it shouldn't ever be an issue that requires something to be turned off in the first place.



posted on Nov, 30 2014 @ 01:17 PM
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Thread closed.



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