UKIP in Britain - Manufacturing a new Hitler

originally posted by: nonspecific


link

Another stupid EU decision that put another thing in UKIP favour.

I donts see what wrong with regulated immigration I really dont.

a reply to: crazyewok
I agree.
There is certainly no pressing need for 20 somethings from Eastern Europe labouring on the building sites I work on.
They reduce the opportunities for our own young people to get a foothold into a trade, and while I understand a contractor taking on cheap semi-skilled and former conscript soldiers who follow orders well, before UK 16-19 year olds for labouring jobs, I do not support the automatic right of those Europeans to work here.

You would think that regulated immigration would be a standard cross party policy, I am anti UKIP but then I'm anti Labour and anti conservative too. I would be anti Lib Dem but they pose no threat so it's not really worth it.

a reply to: crazyewok

a reply to: nonspecific
I'm the same to be fair, I am not pro-UKIP in the sense that I want them to form the next government, I just want an end to automatic free movement of unskilled workers and benefit claimants coming to the UK.
UKIP is the only party I can see which represents my thoughts, and if it is solely a vote on the 'out of Europe' card to make it happen then so be it.

Do you not find it a concern that you would vote over a single policy?

Or do you feel that the point in question is so important that any other changes UKIP made would be worth it to change that one thing?

I ask as I feel that could be a bit of a gamble given that they have not yet released a full manifesto to my understanding?

a reply to: grainofsand

a reply to: nonspecific
As a former civil servant who made and signed many decisions on behalf of secretaries of state, I am less concerned about whoever is voted in because the permanent senior civil/crown service pretty much runs anything important, regardless of the party in power in a given year. I've argued with MP's and laughed at junior ministers when they've cried about the interpretation of rules their own party introduced. The UK is a mixture of the Crown, Judiciary, and Parliament so the party in power is only a 3rd of the equation in my concerns.

The EU free movement of people rights are the biggest issue to me right now though, and a UKIP vote is the only one with the same intent as mine. It is a single policy vote for me of course, and no, I am not concerned about it because the single issue of 200,000+ net per year unskilled immigration from poorer EU nations is more important to me than which lame arsed politician is sleeping at Number 10.

Yes Prime Minister...

a reply to: grainofsand

a reply to: nonspecific
Haha yes exactly!!
That series was so close to the reality.

reply to: grainofsand what about the 2 million plus brits who work and live in Europe? Freedom of movement is a fundamental part of being in the EU.

I have the books and read them maybe twice a year, the tv show was world class and I always thought there was more truth than fiction and was suprised the Beeb allowed it. It should be compulsory viewing for anyone who has a goverment.

Sorry about thread drift but it could be deemed relavant.

a reply to: grainofsand

a reply to: grainofsand

a reply to: woodwardjnr
The 200,000+ net migration into the UK from Europe takes that into account.
...I'm not too concerned about those who have chosen to leave the UK, it is always a choice with risks.

a reply to: nonspecific
It is absolutely relevant in my opinion. The UK is a mix of power, and Parliament is only one third of it.
I no longer want unskilled EU workers or benefit claimants to have the automatic right to reside in the UK anymore, so I am happy to trust the Crown and Judiciary to save the day if we vote in a #wit UKIP government which stops that free movement of people. It is a risk worth taking in my opinion, and the only reason I'll be voting UKIP.

Just a question but how would you feel if we allowed unskilled labour say bar workers and waiters to go to Spain but allowed skilled workers/graduates from Europe to come in?

Say on a two to one basis?

a reply to: grainofsand

a reply to: nonspecific
Two to one sounds like something the international community would deem unacceptable, but I don't really care about the actual ratio if it is an equitable situation accepted by all parties [nations] involved.

I suppose the question was would you swap good immigrants for bad English people on a 2 to 1 basis?

Tempting eh?


a reply to: grainofsand

originally posted by: nonspecific
Just a question but how would you feel if we allowed unskilled labour say bar workers and waiters to go to Spain but allowed skilled workers/graduates from Europe to come in?

Say on a two to one basis?

a reply to: grainofsand

Thing is that's sort of what most are saying.

I don't think anyone wants to stop immigration, I dont.

But to be reasonable about and conduct it in a fair way that does not overwhelm the capacity of our education system, NHS, welfare system, police and oversaturated the job market .

originally posted by: nonspecific
I suppose the question was would you swap good immigrants for bad English people on a 2 to 1 basis?

Tempting eh?


a reply to: grainofsand

Of course if those Brits want to go and another country willingly takes them.

That's regulated immigration and no one I don't think is denying that.

And I'd add if that skill is not a skill that found in the UK or is understaffed and in need like doctors ect I'd let those immigrants in without the swap!

originally posted by: nonspecific
I suppose the question was would you swap good immigrants for bad English people on a 2 to 1 basis?

Tempting eh?


a reply to: grainofsand

Not tempting to me.
I support unskilled work being carried out by unskilled UK nationals instead of unskilled EU nationals who have automatic right to reside in the UK due to EU membership.

originally posted by: stumason
a reply to: bastion

None of those parties are part of that coalition. I would call you a liar, but that's against the T&C's

Actually they are and here's the links to prove it.

Nigel Farage has defended his decision to form an alliance with a party in the European Parliament that is led by a man who has denied Hitler was aware of the Holocaust and does not believe women should be allowed to vote.

The Ukip leader said he had no choice but to recruit Polish MEP Robert Jaroslaw Iwaszkiewicz to his eurosceptic Europe of Freedom and Direct Democracy (EFDD) group, as if he had not all 25 Ukip MEPs would have been left without a voice in the Strasbourg parliament.

www.huffingtonpost.co.uk...


www.efdgroup.eu...


This is Grauniad so a bit biased and scaremongery but does contain a lot of facts in there.

Nigel Farage joins forces with far-right Swedish and French MEPs Ukip leader's group in European parliament includes party founded by white supremacists and ex-FN member

Farage came under fire as he spoke of his pride in forming his new group. Winberg and Lundgren's Sweden Democrats party was founded in 1988 as a white supremacist group whose members wore Nazi uniforms to meetings.

www.theguardian.com...

I don't blame you for thinking of it as a lie as I'm far-left and thought it was nonsense when I first heard it.

Also I agree with you that immigration is something that needs to be discussed openly and honestly without people just screaming racist - I just see people blaming immigrants for job losses wrong as it was Thatcher who destroyed UK manufacturing and working class jobs.

However it's undeniable that big changes in populations put huge pressure on public service and can quickly descend into white, black, asian, whatever geographical areas when not monitored. The left need to learn to be mature and aknowledge that while we massively benefit from it, there are down sides to it and pointing out that fact has nothing to do with racism or xenophobia - it's an argument based on mass population increases.

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As I'm a massive lefty I'll be voting Green as they're the only anti-privatisation party and have guaranteed an in/out Euro refferendum as they believe the public should have the choice, not the party - that's not to say a lot of their policies aren't woolly and hippy lala land stuff.