Odessa slaughter: How vicious mob burnt anti-govt activists alive

originally posted by: LarryLove
a reply to: bastion

So, as a 'journalist' you were present on the scene and the photographs are yours? You have proof to support your claims? As a 'journalist' you are able to discern fact from fiction and should present the facts as they are. So, to clarify, you are a 'journalist' with categoric proof that what RT report happened, happened?

Two posts above you mate, why are you putting journalist in brackets, don't be causing tension.

a reply to: anHairInTheSoup

Hmmm lol Not quite sure a leader of any kind is a good thing... People fight over who will be the leader... If you have a dictatorship it could be great, could get a really nice leader but how long till an evil dictator holds the throne?

originally posted by: bastion
a reply to: intrptr

Was 46, not 460, sorry. Bit of a typo there.

Sadly they're all stomach churning bad (i.e corpses burnt black from head to toe and dead while trying to climb out of windows etc..) so I don't recommend clicking on it, but I guess it's the only thing that'll get the 'hoax callers' to shut up (I'm in the UK and the whole thing a broadcast live on the BBC).

Pics here but this is very NSFW - i61.tinypic.com... - via journalist Ste Argue

There were scuffles between Ukrainian groups and police, then a few tear gas canisters went off, then the pro-Ukrainians went ballistic and started attacking police and throwing fire bombs at the building. As far as I'm aware, the pro-Russian supporters were trapped inside and not part of the buildup.

Yep looks like those people done that to themselves alright case closed [end/sarcasm] Those pics are horrific, murder plain and simple.

a reply to: LarryLove

I don't work for Russia Today and haven't read their reports in great detail. I have however worked with colleagues over there for years and know that they would not lie in their reports.

I saw the live broadcast of the breakout between police and pro-Ukrainian groups and the scenes were so chaotic and smoke filled, it's hard to tell for certain what went on. However I didn't see a single person behind the police lines (where you'd expect pro-russian groups to be as they're seperated for crowd control). The entrance was clearly visible (where most molotov's were thrown) and no one was stood there or nearby.

The BBC video here clearly shows Ukrainian groups throwing petrol bombs at the building and blocking people from escaping it while it's on fire. The footage at the 1min mark shows how chaotic the initial attack was.

www.bbc.co.uk...

a reply to: Meee32

yah that's what i meant, the uruguay pdt as world dictator. with copious amount of well thought propaganda for harmonious, truthful, peaceful, sharing & respectful to all differences life style and to make sure the mass+ex-army+ex-police (we won't need the banksters dogs any more) wouldn't ever let the banksters back in business (they are the -only- terrorists after all, who wants terrorists to take over their neighbourhood?). anyway weapons would be forbidden so good luck to them to take back what they don't need nor deserve with their intelligence only. they won't stand a chance facing educated people.

with the development of creativity, mind opening and critical thinking as axis of the education system, we'll still need a few generations before society can self-manage in a virtuous cycle without anybody tricking anyone into doing things that play against their interest.

I must have missed this thread, but that's probably a good thing because after reading all of the sick and twisted vial crap that the pro-fascists are posting, I don't really feel like getting involved here.

If you all want some real facts without the pro-fascist misinformation, check out this thread.

It's absolutely disgusting that the obvious truth is being twisted like this. The riot police of the junta were there; they stood at the sides while fascist scum herded an anti-Kiev demonstration into a building, then threw molotovs into the building and shot at those who tried to crawl out the windows. Those who jumped and survived were beaten. It's despicable that this is ignored because the facts don't fit the Western agenda. Western agenda is always deniability when the facts aren't in their favour (ie, BBC said that they didn't know how the fire started), or just blame the victim (BBC also claimed the demonstrators and the mob were both throwing things at each other), or just make things up (BBC also claimed that "protesters" were seen throwing molotovs at the building, which the protesters were in).

a reply to: Vovin If it only was that simple...
On the ground Howard Amos twittered:

Not clear who had the real guns. But they were definitely being used by cornered pro-Russians inside the trade union building.

Right now he reports that pro-Ukrainians are gathering, waiting for an attack of the pro-Russians. We have TWO groups ready to fight each other. There is no good killing on one side and bad killing on the other side. Let's hope that this does not escalate again!

originally posted by: Siddharta
a reply to: Vovin If it only was that simple...
On the ground Howard Amos twittered:

Not clear who had the real guns. But they were definitely being used by cornered pro-Russians inside the trade union building.

Right now he reports that pro-Ukrainians are gathering, waiting for an attack of the pro-Russians. We have TWO groups ready to fight each other. There is no good killing on one side and bad killing on the other side. Let's hope that this does not escalate again!

And you blame someone for pulling out a gun when they are cornered and about to die?

On top of that, I've seen video that the fascists took when they were the first inside the building in the aftermath (one guy had a wooden club and shield, which is in fashion with the fascists). They stripped off a Kevlar vest off one corpse, but there were no guns among dozens of corpses (at least in the video).

"How vicious mob burnt anti-govt activists alive"

Ok...

Can I try a play on words?

How vicious _______ burnt __________ alive.

Insert your words how you see fit, kind of like mad libs.

Here's my example.



The most simplistic thing about this is, its human nature.
You can insert any belief or cause to justify any side, but in the end, this is the ever present darkside of humanity.
And its not going anywhere anytime soon.
To do this, is to be a human unfortunately.

originally posted by: Black_Fox
its human nature.

wrong, it's banksters & elite nature.

originally posted by: Black_Fox
"How vicious mob burnt anti-govt activists alive"

Ok...

Can I try a play on words?

How vicious _______ burnt __________ alive.

Insert your words how you see fit, kind of like mad libs.

Here's my example.

The most simplistic thing about this is, its human nature.
You can insert any belief or cause to justify any side, but in the end, this is the ever present darkside of humanity.
And its not going anywhere anytime soon.
To do this, is to be a human unfortunately.

It's the fact, not a "play on words". The title is a description of what happened.

originally posted by: maddy21

originally posted by: Xcathdra

originally posted by: maddy21
a reply to: Xcathdra

Right....just because you don't like what you are seeing here you want this in the hoax bin ?
Ultra Nationalists who would burn buildings are Neo Nazis . Its really simple common sense

not at all.. As I stated its because you posted no source to support the lies you posted.

As I stated, twice now, answer the questions posted to you about the claims and the source.



ETA - Life News? You posted RT news as your op. Why the back pedal?

AM posting multiple sources , please stop showing your desperation .. Its what everyone does , when you don't like the news, either attack the OP or attack the source ..

Peaceful Russian protesters bringing in Molotov Cocktail draped in Ukranian flag and we have folks here asking for proof

Was it time stamped and verfied to be from inside ukraine? Facebook has a very easy to use system to check the veracity of pictures if requested by authorities. SO I am sure it can be done. How about link to the pages so we can check them out?

a reply to: Vovin

The shooting occurred BEFORE the fire. 4 people on the pro ukraine side were killed leading to a lynch mob. They brought the violence on themselves when they attacked a protest. The motovs were made incase the protest came under attack i would wager. As for the "guns" dissapearing. Have you seen how fast supporters of palestinians in gaza pick up weapons to make it look like they were un armed? I am sure they were not checking all of the pro russians running out the buildings OR they hid them somwhere in the building.

a reply to: VovinPro and Contra both always claim, that they only defend themselves and that the other party is the aggressor.
You ignore the fact that it started with Pro-Russians who attacked the Pro-Ukranian demonstration and killed three of them. Then the manhunt began. It is that black & white thinking that the fighting comes up again and again. This does not help to come to peace.

At the moment a big crowd of pro-Ukrainians is marching through the town. They first went to a police station to talk to the new chief, since the old one was fired today because of the bloodshed and the inactivity of the police. Now they have split and about the half of them are marching to the burned out building. Let's hope, the other group is not around. Too many who are ready for a bloody standoff on both sides...

originally posted by: yuppa
a reply to: Vovin

The shooting occurred BEFORE the fire. 4 people on the pro ukraine side were killed leading to a lynch mob. They brought the violence on themselves when they attacked a protest. The motovs were made incase the protest came under attack i would wager. As for the "guns" dissapearing. Have you seen how fast supporters of palestinians in gaza pick up weapons to make it look like they were un armed? I am sure they were not checking all of the pro russians running out the buildings OR they hid them somwhere in the building.

How the burning kicked off



Pro Kiev shooting at the building



Are you sure you have your facts right? Or are you just swallowing down whatever the MSM is throwing at you?

originally posted by: yuppa
a reply to: Vovin

The shooting occurred BEFORE the fire. 4 people on the pro ukraine side were killed leading to a lynch mob. They brought the violence on themselves when they attacked a protest. The motovs were made incase the protest came under attack i would wager. As for the "guns" dissapearing. Have you seen how fast supporters of palestinians in gaza pick up weapons to make it look like they were un armed? I am sure they were not checking all of the pro russians running out the buildings OR they hid them somwhere in the building.

"Supporters of Palestinians in Gaza"

So you mean Palestinians, right?

a reply to: bastion

Thank you for those. People like me appreciate gestures that like… a lot.

Sorry for the delay.

As far as I'm aware, the pro-Russian supporters were trapped inside and not part of the buildup.

Thats what I got out of the "exercise" as well. I would only add to be careful calling those in Ukraine caught up in the melee "Pro Russian". It manipulates peoples minds to think they are something more than they are; ordinary Ukrainians defending their sovereignty from a bunch of hired criminal brutes.

originally posted by: Siddharta

it started with Pro-Russians who attacked the Pro-Ukranian demonstration and killed three of them. Then the manhunt began.

no it started with neo-nazi backed by imf who took Ukraine by force.

originally posted by: Siddharta
a reply to: VovinPro and Contra both always claim, that they only defend themselves and that the other party is the aggressor.
You ignore the fact that it started with Pro-Russians who attacked the Pro-Ukranian demonstration and killed three of them. Then the manhunt began. It is that black & white thinking that the fighting comes up again and again. This does not help to come to peace.

At the moment a big crowd of pro-Ukrainians is marching through the town. They first went to a police station to talk to the new chief, since the old one was fired today because of the bloodshed and the inactivity of the police. Now they have split and about the half of them are marching to the burned out building. Let's hope, the other group is not around. Too many who are ready for a bloody standoff on both sides...

I call BS. I've seen zero sources or evidence claiming that.

And why would they be pro-Russian? Just because they are anti-junta?

Sources I've seen explicitly state that the anti-Kiev demonstration was protesting near the union building when mobs of fascists (and apparently those aggressive kinds of football fans) showed up and they started clashing on the street. Then the riot police moved in and blocked off a retreat path for the anti-Kiev group while allowing fascists inside the containment area. Then molotovs get thrown and the anti-Kiev crowd retreats into the union building. Then the riot police watch from the sidelines as the fascists lob molotovs into the building and shoot at people trying to escape from the windows.

It's pretty goddamn difficult to argue that it was the anti-junta people throwing molotovs at the building for multiple reasons:

1) The victims were all anti-Kiev activists.
2) The police stood back and allowed the attackers to incinerate the building and shoot and beat survivors.

Why would the state police stand back and watch the "Russian terrorists" massacre Ukrainian nationalists? Considering they've embarked in "counter terrorism" campaign in east Ukraine, you'd think they would have put down the aggressors in Odessa if they were anti-Kiev separatists, right?

a reply to: anHairInTheSoup Sure... And now half of the Ukrainians are blue smurfs and the other half are black smurfs.