Russia's territorial demands reminiscent of Nazi Germany

a reply to: vNex92

Their talking to the right crowd then.

a reply to: Ghostsdogood

What violent actions by Russia?
times, dates , places, please?
There was one incident where armed Ukrainian troops marched into a Russian base lowered the Russian flag and began to raise a Ukrainian flag attempting to evict the Russians. and that individual was shot.
I guarantee if I marched on to a US base and lowered the US Flag , I would get shot too.


By mutual treaty Russia was entitled to maintain military bases in Crimea. Long before the creation of Ukraine as an independent nation there was a referendum held in Crimea in which residents of Crimea demanded autonomy from Kiev.
In 2014 the Russians held a new referendum in which 95% of Crimeans demanded union with the Russian Federation.

Crimean people voted for reunification with Russia.

a reply to: Ghostsdogood

Undertakings given to Russia about NATO expansion are available from the NSA archives reading room

nsarchive.gw... u.edu/briefing-book/russia-programs/2017-12-12/nato-expansion-what-gorbachev-heard-western-leaders-early

originally posted by: RIPMH370
In 2014 the Russians held a new referendum in which 95% of Crimeans demanded union with the Russian Federation.

Crimean people voted for reunification with Russia.

So let me get this part straight, you believe that Putin's Russia is trustworthy enough to hold a democratic vote (aka referendum) that wouldn't somehow result in favoring his autocracy?

Pretty naive.

originally posted by: RIPMH370
a reply to: Ghostsdogood

What violent actions by Russia?
times, dates , places, please?
There was one incident where armed Ukrainian troops marched into a Russian base lowered the Russian flag and began to raise a Ukrainian flag attempting to evict the Russians. and that individual was shot.
I guarantee if I marched on to a US base and lowered the US Flag , I would get shot too.


By mutual treaty Russia was entitled to maintain military bases in Crimea. Long before the creation of Ukraine as an independent nation there was a referendum held in Crimea in which residents of Crimea demanded autonomy from Kiev.
In 2014 the Russians held a new referendum in which 95% of Crimeans demanded union with the Russian Federation.

Crimean people voted for reunification with Russia.

What russians are threatening to do right now.

What russia already did in the period surrounding the crimea annexation.

Or do you want to discuss what russia did to Ukraine over the last century?

originally posted by: RIPMH370
a reply to: Ghostsdogood

What violent actions by Russia?
times, dates , places, please?
There was one incident where armed Ukrainian troops marched into a Russian base lowered the Russian flag and began to raise a Ukrainian flag attempting to evict the Russians. and that individual was shot.
I guarantee if I marched on to a US base and lowered the US Flag , I would get shot too.


By mutual treaty Russia was entitled to maintain military bases in Crimea. Long before the creation of Ukraine as an independent nation there was a referendum held in Crimea in which residents of Crimea demanded autonomy from Kiev.
In 2014 the Russians held a new referendum in which 95% of Crimeans demanded union with the Russian Federation.

Crimean people voted for reunification with Russia.

Are we discussing reacting to russia's actions in Crimea?

They pretty much got away with that already.

And nobody on our side absurdly threatened ww3 over it.

Like putin is doing now over his demands to steal Ukrainian land and resources.


Keep talking in circles if you want, but there is no way around the FACT that russia is the ONLY international aggressor in the region.

We don't even want to be there.

originally posted by: Ghostsdogood
Keep talking in circles if you want, but there is no way around the FACT that russia is the ONLY international aggressor in the region.

Well said. There's a lot of Russian propaganda being painted as fact, alongside the willful propagation of said propaganda.

Russian meddling and belligerence in Ukraine has resulted in the illegal annexation of Crimea and Russian troops in Esatern Ukraine. The current troop build up is either aggressive posturing towards Ukraine, or the preliminary for the violent annexation of more of Ukraine, under the Russian policy of Novorossiya.

In all this, Russia have issued demands of Ukraine and NATO which are absolutist and not acceptable when seen through rational eyes. It's overt bullying nd trying to find a pretext for conflict by Russia.

Russia has form, such as slicing territory from Georgia (South Ossetia and Abkhazia) and the consequential ethnic cleansing (2008). It's no wonder noone wants to be their friends except a few broken ex-Soviet 'stans, all with shocking human rights records and political corruption.

a reply to: RIPMH370

What violent actions by Russia?

I assume Syria..

a reply to: paraphi
The independence of Crimea was not illegal. It was no more illegal than the no independence of Kosovo which NATO bombed Serbia for 70+ days.

Destroyed much of civilian infrastructures.

Russian meddling and belligerence in Ukraine has resulted
But it was ok for US to push a regime change to replace Viktor Yanukovych? Viktor Yanukovych who was democratically elected?

a reply to: paraphi

Russia has form, such as slicing territory from Georgia (South Ossetia and Abkhazia) and the consequential ethnic cleansing (2008).

You mean this joke who started the war in South Ossetia first with artillery shelling?

a reply to: paraphi

It were the Russians who responded to the shelling by sending their forces into Georgia. Why have you not mentioned the artillery shelling of South Ossetia by Georgian forces?

There's a lot of Russian propaganda being painted as fact

I can see you didnt mention that South Ossetia was shelled as the reason for Russia to help the innocent civilians.

Reports: 6 die as Georgia shells South Ossetia

South Ossetia declared its independence from Georgia in the early 1990s after a bloody war there between ethnic Georgians and Ossetians. The region's independence is not internationally recognized.

Of course their independence is not internationally recognized yet had no problems showing double standards when they had no issues recognizing states like Kosovo for example.

For geopolitically reasons.

originally posted by: vNex92
The independence of Crimea was not illegal.

Give it a rest. It was illegal.

Russia had no business in running a referendum in another person's territory, for a start. People living in Crimea since occupation have suffered human rights abuse and forced to leave, so the continuation of Russia’s ethnic cleansing.

1. Russia deployed troops into Crimea and took the peninsula by force.
2. Russia conducted a farcical referendum in an attempt to legitimise their occupation.
3. Referendum conducted in a belligerent militarised situation.
4. Referendum was illegal under the Ukrainian Constitution.
5. Referendum result unrecognised by the international community.
6. Russia violated the first principle of international law, in that countries cannot change borders by force.
7. Russia violated its own obligations under Article 2 of the UN Charter, the Budapest Memo and the Helsinki Final Act.
8. Russia's actions continue to undermine Ukraine, a sovereign state.

originally posted by: dollukka
a reply to: vNex92

So you think it is ok that Russia gets Ukraine ? What more Russians want ? What about sovereign countries rights to be independent ?

You know Ukrainians and Russians are the same people, right? 19% of Ukraine is Russian people, they have friend and family on both sides of the border. The Ukrainian people would much rather have Russia there then the US that is for sure. The US should really worry about our own Southern border and leave Russia and the Ukraine alone, it's not their business,.

originally posted by: MisguidedAngel

You know Ukrainians and Russians are the same people, right?

I have scores of Ukranian and Russian friends and family, and none of them agree with you.

originally posted by: MisguidedAngel

The US should really worry about our own Southern border and leave Russia and the Ukraine alone, it's not their business,.

I'll give you this much though, your name? Spot-on.

originally posted by: Nyiah

originally posted by: dollukka
a reply to: vNex92

Why should Russia have more land area as it has now ? Are you Russian ? If Ukraine asks for help to defend itself who says it can´t ? Putin ?

Im only going to say this once, and it better sting:

AMERICA IS NOT THE WORLD'S POLICE FORCE.

It is high time to wean you people off our defense tit, there's mllions of able-bodied in Europe. Surely SOME of you can lift fingers to defend yourselves & your territories once in a while.

Otherwise, may the less useless fighters win.

Now get off your asses & prove one way or the other which side of that NATO line that applies to -- Russians, or those who Offshore their defenses to others.

Reinterating this, and adding that over-reliance on foreign Rent-A-Cop protection will be what sinks East Europe. Allies are fine & dandy, until those enjoying The Kept Woman relationship become lazy & complacent with home country defense. It's exceptionally difficult to feel sorry for the dissenting Ukrainians when keeping that in mind. I'm not intending to disparage, but I AM pointing out a fatal flaw that is a False Sense of Security here, and that is over-reliance

Once upon a time, European tribes didn't need someone from the other side of the ocean to prop them up to decimate another, the tribe the next valley over was good for that, neighbors, backyards, protecting what's yours & all that.

What the # happened over there, its a shame. This makes folks/countries look really impotent & weak.

Many thank yous to water carrying western pig dogs who make strong support of great leader Putin and very peaceful Russian military. Russian peoples never want conflict, not even when was Soviet Union when eastern Europe countries enjoy bountiful bread lines and much freedoms. We only want restore great time in Europe history by making strong union of former Soviet countries. We bring them great peace and prosperity even if they no want. We bring party to them.

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

Many thank yous to water carrying western pig dogs who make strong support of great leader Putin and very peaceful Russian military. Russian peoples never want conflict, not even when was Soviet Union when eastern Europe countries enjoy bountiful bread lines and much freedoms. We only want restore great time in Europe history by making strong union of former Soviet countries. We bring them great peace and prosperity even if they no want. We bring party to them.

And if an unwelcome shindig, Ukranian Borat & the gang can get their hands dirty & send the flash mob party scattering!

Seriously, to the European folks, ogle OUR borders & tell me people who can't even beat back the border rushers are REALLY your salvation up against a military. Skip over the job differences here & focus on the inability to do jack effectively, ok?

I'd reconsider how badly you want us there. Especially after Iraq & Aghanistan. Maybe Ukraine will be prettier with more Green Zones & craters?

a reply to: Nyiah

If you live in soon to be glorious reunited Ukraine you end up make good plow person for endless field wheat which used to make sure proud Rooshen peoples no wait breadline. Pretty soon Poles want end to stupid Solidarity movement which only give stupid Poles much freedoms and no glorious breadlines. We also maybe bring strong freedoms to Baltic States since strategic North Sea location make easy for most peaceful and not decrepit Russian Navy to say hello to old friend Germany.

originally posted by: Nyiah

Im only going to say this once, and it better sting:

originally posted by: Nyiah
Reinterating this,

I would say, you stung yourself.

originally posted by: Nyiah
Once upon a time, European tribes didn't need someone from the other side of the ocean to prop them up to decimate another, the tribe the next valley over was good for that, neighbors, backyards, protecting what's yours & all that.

And the average lifespan was 29 yeas old......"once upon a time" is usually the pre-cursor to fairy tales, and you seem to be wholly wrapped up in one here. The world has changed, the ability for "tribes" to fight for their place has changed, and your thinking is ridiculously outdated. Allies looking out for you is always > tribes, even if those allies are "coerced via self-interest".

What’s ironic is that the election of Trump persuaded Putin that the west could elect a crazy man outside of the mainstream one day and that could be a threat to Russia. Therefore, it’s wise to get his border protection in order.

Russia has at least a whole army or two at the border, probably at least four to six Corps. The west getting 8000 troops activated is a joke. That’s not even a division.