Gov't shutdown and Chemtrails link???

Mikeultra
Yet the sky is full of airliners? What could this mean? Not all of the aircraft are at low altitudes, some are at cruising altitude. Why no contrails or chem-trails?

is it even remotely possible that the weather patterns are not conducive for persistent contrail formation?

like.......a......high......pressure......system.............?

nope, it's got to be the big bad gubbamnet! afterall, there were never any clear days before the shutdown.

epic fail. freakin epic.

reply to post by Mikeultra


It means that the humidity levels at cruising altitude aren't conducive to contrails. It happens. A lot.

reply to post by Zaphod58


Can you guys explain how a plane left one then?? If it's not high enough to create a contrail how did it create one?? Maybe it is chemicals.. You guys are so brilliant you've solidified the chemtrail conspiracy for me. Like I said before I would see 10 planes go by with no chemtrail or contrail and then all of a sudden at similar altitudes one has a big fat line that doesn't dissipate..

reply to post by Mikeultra


Have you checked the conditions?

weather.uwyo.edu...

libertytoall
reply to post by Zaphod58

 

Can you guys explain how a plane left one then?? If it's not high enough to create a contrail how did it create one?? Maybe it is chemicals.. You guys are so brilliant you've solidified the chemtrail conspiracy for me. Like I said before I would see 10 planes go by with no chemtrail or contrail and then all of a sudden at similar altitudes one has a big fat line that doesn't dissipate..

edit on 15-10-2013 by libertytoall because: (no reason given)

The important word there is SIMILAR. Have you done as Mike and used flight tracking software to identify flights and altitudes?

reply to post by libertytoall


guessing at the altitude is nearly impossible. If you use flight tracking programs, you can identify the flight and KNOW what altitude it was at. But the science that explains contrail formation also explains how a flight might leave a long trail at 31,548' and not one at 32,000' based on the conditions. The sky up there is very dynamic. If you ever see a flight leaving a trail and you can verify the plane was under 20,000 feet, you will have some good evidence that either we are wrong, or that chemtrails are real, or perhaps both.

reply to post by libertytoall


You can look at a plane flying overhead and guess the altitude, and be over 10,000 feet off. I've been watching planes longer than I can remember (my grandmother used to point them out and have me identify them as a young kid), and I can't tell the altitude they are flying at without using Flightradar, or Flightaware. With no reference to use, there is no physical way possible to tell.

reply to post by libertytoall

Like I said before I would see 10 planes go by with no chemtrail or contrail and then all of a sudden at similar altitudes one has a big fat line that doesn't dissipate..

So how easy was it to see those first ten planes, or how much detail could you make out?

Now the one with contrails how much detail could you make out on it?

reply to post by libertytoall

Shugo
Atmospheric conditions can vary even by as little as 100 feet, and in theory can even vary by as few as 3.3 feet. There are various ways to sample the atmosphere at various pressure altitudes - but most of those are specified as key points to track weather phenomena and for travel.

I answered you in detail once already.
Perhaps you missed it due to the ramblings being made by people trying to claim "chemtrails" exist.
www.abovetopsecret.com...

libertytoall
reply to post by Zaphod58

 

Can you guys explain how a plane left one then?? If it's not high enough to create a contrail how did it create one??

Height is incidental. Contrails can be generated at sea level when conditions are right - ice fog is the same as contrails - ice crystals - and is a common phenomena in Alaska, north Canada, Siberia and other very, very cold places - right down to sea level. It is generated by anything that makes moisture - including cars and people breathing!

This PDF of a powerpoint about ice fog at Fairbanks Airport is quiet informative about "contrails" at low altitudes.

I am sure you meant to say "If a plane flying through conditions that are not conducive to contrails left a contrail then how did it create one?"

Like all hypothetical questions the answer is that if conditions were not conducive to contrails then the plane did not leave a contrail.

but of course such arguments then start to ignore the word "IF" - and people start suggesting that this is a fact, and not a hypothetical question.

contrails can be generated at sea

Shugo
reply to post by libertytoall

 

Shugo
Atmospheric conditions can vary even by as little as 100 feet, and in theory can even vary by as few as 3.3 feet. There are various ways to sample the atmosphere at various pressure altitudes - but most of those are specified as key points to track weather phenomena and for travel.

I answered you in detail once already.
Perhaps you missed it due to the ramblings being made by people trying to claim "chemtrails" exist.
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Thankyou for that. Most informing plausible post yet.

Zaphod58
reply to post by libertytoall

 

You can look at a plane flying overhead and guess the altitude, and be over 10,000 feet off. I've been watching planes longer than I can remember (my grandmother used to point them out and have me identify them as a young kid), and I can't tell the altitude they are flying at without using Flightradar, or Flightaware. With no reference to use, there is no physical way possible to tell.

So what you're saying is if I see a plane at say 8,000 feet and then I see the same model aircraft at 18,000 feet, it's size in my perspective along with any identifiable features are all going to be the same??

reply to post by libertytoall


The point is, how do you know initial aircraft is at 8,000 feet, and the aircraft above it is 10,000 feet higher than the base aircraft? There's no way of knowing that for sure, and because atmospheric conditions can and usually are different by the 100s of feet, knowing a fairly accurate altitude would be critical in this case.

Citing an aircraft 8,000 feet when it's actually at 8,350 feet can be the different of the temp being 3 C at 8,000 feet vs. 0 C at 8,350.

reply to post by libertytoall


No, I'm saying that you can see a plane flying at 25,000 feet, and think that its flying over 30,000 feet, and not leaving a contrail. Or you can see one flying over 30,000 feet, leaving a contrail, and think its lower. Or two planes flying near each other that are separated by thousands of feet, but look like they're flying close together.

At lower altitudes, you can tell that they're at low altitudes, but you still can't tell whether it's 8,000 feet, or 12,000 feet. The only way you can tell for certain is to use some kind of tracking software, like Flightradar24, or Flightaware. It can look like they're lower than they really are.

Two planes flying far apart are somewhat easier to tell, if one is fairly low altitude, and one is at medium or high altitude. But when planes are flying at medium altitude, or at cruising altitude, you can't tell how far apart they are.

reply to post by libertytoall


There are some superb quality photos of a/c at this site

If you go to the "special contrails" link at the bottom there are a number where there are 2 a/c in shot, usually with the altitude difference give.

reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul


I don't want anyone to get the wrong assumption that I'm blindly falling into the chemtrail crowd I simply haven't heard a convincing enough argument from either side. It certainly is suspicious looking which is why the conspiracy must exist to begin with. If I can identify the aircrafts markings on it's tail wing enough to make out colors and logo is there that big of an altitude difference? I would accept 1 - 2 thousand feet but not 10,000.. And when I say I witness 10 planes and then all of a sudden there's one with a trail I'm talking in a matter of 30 minutes.. The sky is very busy above my house and most aircraft are at similar altitudes 10 - 20 minutes before landing or after takeoff. Many times the plane is slightly turning and the trail follows and then 10 minutes later another plane will travel through the same "general" area and nothing. I almost never see the evaporating contrail I was so used to seeing growing up.

Zaphod58
reply to post by NONPOINT21

 

They can think I'm an expert on avionics all they want, but when it comes to aircraft and aviation there are only a few on ATS with more experience than I have.

Why is it that not one person that has a deep understanding of aircraft and years of experience working on them seems to believe in chemtrails?

Job preservation perhaps?
Kind of like an IRS agent whom does not believe in taxes would never say so.

Regards, Iwinder

reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul


In fact there is one taken 3/20/12 that is exactly what I'm talking about. There is an A320 flying at 38,000 feet and a Cessna 525 Citation flying 10,000 feet lower, but they look like they are flying at similar altitude.

Zaphod58
reply to post by Mikeultra

 

So you're just going to sit and scream how they're spraying us, using a conspiracy of thousands, just like everyone else, instead of trying to actually prove it and show us we're wrong.

First off nobody is "screaming" , secondly " and show us we're wrong" makes me think that this thread open to all appears to have some kind of "team mentality"

So now its we versus them is it?

I am posting solo here and represent no team.

Regards, Iwinder

Iwinder
[So now its we versus them is it?

no, not now.

It has been "us" vs "them" since anybody who dares question chemtrail orthodoxy has been labeled a shill, disinfo agent, etc.