Is new age feminism getting out of hand?

reply to post by Propulsion

”If you want equal rights like men, than I guess you won’t have a problem going in on the draft like men do”?

Just exactly how old was that video?

You don't have to be a feminist to be anti-war

Seriously - there are plenty of men and women alike who are against the draft

And then, finally - these days women are enlisting in record numbers - and pushing the boundaries more every day - without the draft

So, what are you really saying?

Originally posted by redhorse

Is new age feminism getting out of hand?

After watching this thread deteriorate into a vicious, pointless, one-up contest between the genders, I am only convinced all the more of the brutality of the battle of the sexes.

So... Yes. Maybe it is getting out of hand. But I suppose it always was, because feminism was a response to something that was clearly out of hand to begin with. Any time you have two sides struggling for dominance they can wind each other up in a hurry. Which is exactly what has happened here... Again...

In terms of the number and scope of fear based, whining, ego-driven, hateful, demeaning, and just vicious attacks that score is clearly topped by the "Masculinists" here, who are presumably male.

From where I am standing, the women in this thread in the beginning were not trying to assert dominance over men, just equality. The men who are threatened by that swooped in attacking, belittling, generally bullying, and not really thinking. There were no facts to back up most of those assertions of "Fact", and not a whole lot of actual thought in the arguments, just straw-men, circular logic and a great deal of chutzpah. The irony of screaming "I'm smarter and less emotional than you you stupid B***h!" at the top of your lungs, is so tired that most women don't even bother to roll their eyes at it any more. Just to spell it out, this kind of behavior just serves to reinforce the stereo-type of men as violent, noisy, chest beating, branch dragging testosterone machines that women must put up with for the necessity of procreation, and because they can beat us up.

I can say, that life experience has thankfully taught me that this is the vocal minority, and most men aren't like this at all.

I agree, on the first page of the thread the OP provided a link to video which he said showed a feminist being rude to a model and looking at her like she was dirt, the video showed nothing of the sort. Now the thread has turned into a 'men verses women' fiasco.

I have to say tho, I am enjoying reading some of the comments, I have never met a man in person who has such views on women as some of the views I have read here ( their mothers must be so proud ), is it any wonder lots of these macho macho guys are single!

Dont feed the trolls ladies.

reply to post by Lady_Tuatha

Originally posted by Lady_Tuatha

I have to say tho, I am enjoying reading some of the comments, I have never met a man in person who has such views on women as some of the views I have read here ( their mothers must be so proud ), is it any wonder lots of these macho macho guys are single!

The sad thing is, there are mothers who are proud of this. It's scary and depressing at the same time. Living in a Catholic community... now that's reality TV.

That being said, I'm single, and will probably die that way. But that has nothing to do with my views on gender equality and everything to do with the fact that I am a terrible, terrible person.

But aren't we all? Just a little?

Originally posted by Druscilla
reply to post by bates

 

Sometimes a militant stance is required just to bargain down to acceptable terms.
Ask for way more than you want, and when compromise time comes, you can bargain down.
It's good tactics.

Ask for equality and only equality, and all you can bargain down to is less than you really want.

Besides that, who's to measure the length and breadth of 'equality'?
Will it be a white man that say to a black man "Behold, you are now equal"?
The black man continues to be told he's equal in the USA, but, the black man might just beg to differ.

Will it be a Man that tells a Woman similar as seems to be the accepted myth?

Do we need be given, told, about our 'equality', or allowed to declare it when we actually see it as so?

edit on 29-7-2013 by Druscilla because: punctuation and elaboration.

How about just fight for what you want till you get it? No bargains, we need this and we are fighting for it with no compromises. End of story.

I have zero problem with women wanting equality, I want it for them as well, but when feminism crosses the line of trying to demasculinize men it's a problem that's unhealthy for society. They don't understand that we need balance.

Some feminists act like they would ban production of testosterone if they could. They are the ones who constantly attempt to shame men as misogynistic pigs for even having a sex drive. When your feminism forces men into suppression it's gone to far. At the same time they are fighting sexual stigmas that get used on women.

How do they not understand that it sucks for men to have the same type of non sense pushed on them? Why can't we just let people be what they naturally are? Have your rights, but don't attempt to systematically change my biology, it's not going to happen. Can we have a more understanding version of feminism that is in touch with nature and reality?

True equality isn't setting yourself up for superiority, it's not going against men in some attempt to systematically change them. Those type of feminist don't want equality, they want superiority.

To the OP, I wouldn't worry about the militant feminists. They usually tend to be lesbian, or end up writing for the New York Times or Washington Post, lamenting how tough they have it, whilst dying alone and childless. They tend to repeat and try to expand upon what their "Feminist Studies" professor drilled into their heads.

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for equal work for equal pay, regardless of sex or color.

I am NOT for this PC nonsense of trying to get women onto Seal Teams or other Special Ops teams as part of some social experiment. Peoples lives are at stake, and they don't have the time for this manner of nonsense. No doubt, when they fail, their will be some waiver or lowering of standards to have "equality". Yes, we must have both sexes represented in spec ops teams. We have to make things fair.

I can see this coming a mile away.

reply to post by mahatche





You mention feminists crossing the line to de-masculinise men.

And feminists acting like they would ban the production of testosterone if they could.

Then you go on

Have your rights, but don't attempt to systematically change your biology ?


I'm confused Are we on the same thread? We are not at war - We only

want equality


EQUALITY >>>The state of being equal especially in status, rights

and opportunities

reply to post by SearchLightsInc


You don't have to respond to me anymore If you don't want to. No one is forcing you to talk to the sexist hateful misogynist. Like I said before, what I have said is simply my opinion. I realize how insulting and unpopular it is but like Einstein said, "If you are out to describe the truth, leave elegance to the tailor." So be it.

Enlighten me, why are women inferior? And perhaps you should consider changing your opinion because it lacks any factual evidence to back it up.

No facts exist to prove women or men are inferior, equal, or superior. It really isn't about facts. I see women as inferior because nature has made them so, not God and not man. I see this expressed whenever I open my eyes to experience the world. Don't get mad at me get mad at the person in charge, who or whatever that is.

And I could be wrong. Like I said before, the well from which I draw to perceive the world may be poisoned. I have made all the necessary caveats for individuals such as yourself who might get offended before I put my opinions out there. I really don't even feel like I should respond to your rebuttal because I feel you are getting overly agitated and I just want to have a civil discussion...

Wrong, the Russians had Female snipers in WW2, the British had Female spy agents and once more, the reason why women weren't fighting with the men in those wars because they weren't seen as capable

The Russians lost more soldiers than any other nation. The entire war rested on the Russians being able to slaughter as many Germans as possible at Stalingrad and Leningrad. So while however many millions of them were walking into machine gun fire, getting into face-to-face skirmishes, and experiencing 99% of the collective brutality and suffering a few women were snipers. Snipers weren't even very respected then.

Guess your idea of the majority of deaths being men is slightly inaccurate.

No, its not. You are assuming that women made up ALL the civilian casualties. Besides, civilian casualties are externalities of war like I said. I was speaking of actual fighting between men and not women and children civilians sitting at home and being killed by a mortar round.

Afghanistan and Iraq are not wars, they are occupations. A war is when a country has the means to fight back.

So you saying no one was fighting the middle east? Over 8000 coalition troops died making war in Iraq and Afghanistan. You can be pedantic all you want by calling it an occupation but when I see two hostile groups in the same place killing one another as best they can I call it war. When the US fires missiles at schools and hospitals to kill innocent civilians I say they are making war.

I already am, i dont need your validation.

I want to see everyone empowered, happy, and self-actualized.

That goes against my whole "War's are stupid and people should share more ethos" Think the world would be a better place if people didnt shoot first and ask questions later, you know what i mean?

That's perfectly fine. It is surely a noble sentiment you feel that way. I feel like the entire history of mankind is one of perpetual strife and warfare. In the bible Cain, the first true human offspring, was a murderer. God himself genocided the entire human race and had to struggle to keep from doing it again. What was the first thing Noah, the only human worth saving, did after the Flood? He got drunk.

If you don't believe that biblical stuff consider all groundbreaking science and innovation has always been used first to manufacture weapons of warfare. Even though cavemen had to contend with predatory animals and the elements of nature they still made sure to kill one another with crude stone spearheads. You think war is stupid and I think that it is pretty much the way things are, have always been, and will always continue to be. Like it or not war has shown itself to be all-encompassing in this world and not just a mistake.

believe it or not, 99% of women dont want to be men

Penis envy is an unconscious desire. That is the entire point of psychosexual unconscious complexes. They don't know the ultimate motivation underlying their actions or where those mysterious energies come from. If I hypnotized you and brought in a psychoanalyst to work on you I bet you would be surprised at the result.

Sounds very dehumanising, we are just a biological function then? No thoughts and feeling, we just do as our body pleases?

Biology is the fact but not the purpose. It is more of a metaphysical reality about the maturity process of women. Every ancient society has said the same thing: to be a women...

reply to post by SearchLightsInc


you must hit puberty, but to be a man you must venture off into the wilderness to find your manhood through actions. All these early societies have said the source of femininity is the womb while the source of manhood is the spirit.

Right right, you're the chosen ones then?

Not all men are created equal. Neither are all women. Some of the most enlightening ideas I have ever come across were words written by Joyce Carol Oates. She is vastly more competent then all her male counterparts. However, she as a woman can only ever be the best social critic and keenest observer. She will never be at the innermost source of creation and reality. This is not because men are subjugating her or because God thinks her lesser. It is because nature has made her a certain way.

The world is anything but stable.

It is more stable than it has ever been. We have order, laws, technology, are largely impervious to the natural elements and predatory animals, inoculated to disease, have vast amounts of information available to everyone, we are no longer tribal lawless nomadic peoples. If you think the world is not stable you have never opened a history book.

reply to post by Druscilla


That does sound pretty interesting and I believe it.

Perhaps some guys are more consumers now and have really bought into a materialistic way of living such that if you take away of those things they have no identity as the strong, capable, protecting, and useful man. When you take away the convenience of modern living, ala Fight Club or something of that nature, we typically revert to being winey cry babies searching for our soft mattresses, blankets, and comfortable Snuggies to simulate the womb.

But I guarantee that if you put most men in a hard situation for a long enough period of time they will transform and show you what they are capable of. You just need to invest in a poking stick maybe.

reply to post by bates


Good thread, dude. These are some things that needed to be said. This thread seems to have turned in to a girls versus you campaign with them just circle-jerking each other with stars. Not sure if that's the correct term to use when talking about the females; I hope they don't get their knickers in a twist over it. [/joke]

In all seriousness though, I don't think the woman in the video you posted was one of the bad ones that you're referring to, but I know the type. I've met plenty on nights out, parties, etc and they only seem to be concerned with hating men. It's impossible to have a reasonable conversation with them.

That being said, I'm fairly confident that they only make up a tiny percentage of the female population. The vast VAST majority of women that I've spoken to who are involved in, or have close friends involved in the movement are very reasonable and are not out hate men.

Interesting thread though. The early replies were great and I thought it was going to be an enlightening discussion, but there seems to just be a kind of GIRL POWER thing going on now.

Originally posted by hotel1

Originally posted by FyreByrd

Originally posted by hotel1
The feminists of the type you are describing are the ones that are bitterly angry at the male of the species, because only low quality, drunk men try to sleep with them.

edit on 29-7-2013 by hotel1 because: (no reason given)

This will be brief. The feminists of the "type" you are describing are feminists that are just tired of men making decisions for themselves and others that are destroying the world. This also includes women, that act like men to get ahead. They are tired of excusing the frequent poor judgement of men in positions of public and private power and remaining quiet about their true thoughts and feelings to spare men's feelings

It's a quite popular in Sandanavia (pardon my spelling). Sweden has a woman's party. The only financial company to come through the Iceland melt-down was women-led. Women are very conservative ( in the sense of saving resources) in business and politics - when allowed to be women.

This will be even briefer, the three care quality commisions in the UK that failed recently were all lead by women.

But were they women acting like men to get ahead (a la Madame Thatcher) or actual women?

Originally posted by luciddream
reply to post by tothetenthpower

 

That is the problem, i see many men on ATS that are falling into the fear. The moment they hesitate to talk about these stuff, it becomes like a taboo.

I have been seeing men starting sentences with a disclaimer.

Have you seen any feminist here starting with a disclaimer. i highly doubt it. It is like a power trip for them.

I think because of the "years of oppression" that they feel entitled to say what they want. Of course, they are, but if we men don't start with a disclaimer then we're stereotyping, sexist pigs. Just my opinion

Originally posted by Dark Ghost
The oppression card seems to be used quite often in this thread, but rarely examined. For those of you claiming that the lack of achievements by and progress of women is due to patriarchy and male oppression, I encourage you to answer the following questions:

1) Why have women allowed themselves to be dominated by men for thousands of years?

2) Why did it take women so long to rise up in a collective voice and push for social change?

3) Why do women rely on gender quotas to succeed in the fields that men tend to excel in, but men do not rely on the same in areas women tend to excel in?

edit on 30/7/2013 by Dark Ghost because: (no reason given)

Excellent points, my friend; especially the third. I doubt anyone will answer you though due to the answer not tying in with the "men oppress women" regime.

Am I the only one that thinks there should be different coloured stars in this thread; blue or pink depending on given gender? I'd be curious to see who's starring what.

reply to post by Druscilla





I clicked on the link you provided and read the posts, Seems those 'macho' men don't

come off very well in the survival, hunting, providing, and building stakes!

Lots of descriptions of whining less than capable men unable to cut the mustard, and as

one poster said " The hapless men on the programme are being embarrassed by the

women"

reply to post by Thundersmurf





I'll answer that third question ... It's usually a closed shop, you know "The old boys club

network"

Those new kind of feminists are kind of bitchy and pushy. I hope I never have to meet up with them when they are on the prowl. I think they are like female lions or tigers. I better mind my mouth, they may find where I live and do a topless protest here. I'll have to get the cats and deer to watch, wouldn't want them feeling they aren't getting enough attention.

Sexual validation should not be the cause of so much exclusion and irrational treatment. The problem that I run into when trying to establish friendship with a female, is that at some point I'm pressured, usually from the outside, to behave differently, then if the friendship was same sex. Its hard to have equal (unbiasedly judged) female friends, until we both trust that its platonic. Even when you are on the same page, pressures of outside judgements from both genders develop. If I chose to give an opportunity to a female friend over male, its seen as me seeking sexual validation. I do not care how I'm perceived, when its other ignorance or stupidity. I see this on both sides, the female friends of mine, are almost always accused of "using" me. I help my male friends out and if some one said they where "using" me, it would be universally taken as stupid. I wait for the day, I can speak and behave with all genders and colors, without even slightly thinking, "Is this acceptable, or will it be mistaken because of others agendas."

Originally posted by polarwarrior

Originally posted by Seektruthalways1
reply to post by bates

 

There is order, and there is levels of authority, men are above women in authority and women are above children in authority. Need authority in life or there would be chaos. Everyone is not equal, otherwise you would have everyone the same.

Sounds like the same justification used to keep black people enslaved. You really need to come join us in the 21st century.

Equal does not mean the same, women won't grow penises if we give them rights. It's easy to sit at the top and claim a hierarchy is great, but most women want to be treated as equal human beings - and they are making a fuss about it because of ignorant bigots wanting them to obey their male "authority" as you put it.

I say it the way it is. And telling me that black people were enslaved because of authority? Could you even explain that? You seem to misunderstand what I said. I didnt say racism, and I sure didn't say slavery. If you want to debate why blacks are under slavery then start a new thread, cause this isn't the place and I won't argue with ignorant people.

Originally posted by eletheia
reply to post by Druscilla

 

I clicked on the link you provided and read the posts, Seems those 'macho' men don't

come off very well in the survival, hunting, providing, and building stakes!

Lots of descriptions of whining less than capable men unable to cut the mustard, and as

one poster said

" The hapless men on the programme are being embarrassed by the

women"

I've since watched a few episodes of Naked and Afraid, and the show is indeed quite very embarrassing for men.

These men usually have Military Experience and tons of survival training, one of them even being a survival Instructor, another a super soldier Marine Corp Recon specialist.
Every episode I've seen so far, the men have been near dead weight where the women do essentially ALL the work.
Episode 3 is especially embarrassing with big Marine Corp super soldier man laying there crying for a whole week doing absolutely nothing, just wallowing on the sand like a beached whale, wanting to tap out after the very first few hours of the very first day because of sunburn. After that he precedes to poison himself with bad water DESPITE the girl telling him to NOT DRINK IT.

Originally posted by Darkrunner
To the OP, I wouldn't worry about the militant feminists. They usually tend to be lesbian, or end up writing for the New York Times or Washington Post, lamenting how tough they have it, whilst dying alone and childless. They tend to repeat and try to expand upon what their "Feminist Studies" professor drilled into their heads.

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for equal work for equal pay, regardless of sex or color.

I am NOT for this PC nonsense of trying to get women onto Seal Teams or other Special Ops teams as part of some social experiment. Peoples lives are at stake, and they don't have the time for this manner of nonsense. No doubt, when they fail, their will be some waiver or lowering of standards to have "equality". Yes, we must have both sexes represented in spec ops teams. We have to make things fair.

I can see this coming a mile away.

Oh please! you say you are all for equal work for equal pay yet you pick and choose which professions? lol

Who are you to say that women who are already out risking their lives for their country can not advance their careers further within the military the way a man can! They are already out there as combat pilots and flight crews etc for the Army, Navy and Air Force, shoulder to shoulder with men.

Oh and you are right to see it coming, because its happening in 2016.

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