Is new age feminism getting out of hand?

Originally posted by Seektruthalways1
reply to post by bates

 

There is order, and there is levels of authority, men are above women in authority and women are above children in authority. Need authority in life or there would be chaos. Everyone is not equal, otherwise you would have everyone the same.

Sounds like the same justification used to keep black people enslaved. You really need to come join us in the 21st century.

Equal does not mean the same, women won't grow penises if we give them rights. It's easy to sit at the top and claim a hierarchy is great, but most women want to be treated as equal human beings - and they are making a fuss about it because of ignorant bigots wanting them to obey their male "authority" as you put it.

reply to post by Druscilla


In response to your earliest post on pg1.

I totally get the idea of dynamic bargaining. Ask for 120% so you're more likely to get 100% Also it is demeaning to be told by a "superior." that "Ok, now I will ALLOW you to be equal with me. It smacks of insincerity and lip service.

However the downfall of a militant stance is that it gains power rapidly. It's "super-effective" as noted earlier. This leads to two scenarios if not checked, and balanced with common sense which is almost non existent in the mentalities of both sexes of our species.

In scenario #1 a series of early victories pushes the envelope on the demands until the demands become unrealistic, and counter productive to the original cause. Then you become marginalized, minimized, and powerless. No one takes you seriously anymore. Take PETA for example. They are so kooky no one pays attention to them anymore, and they don't really help animals like they used to. They have outgrown their scope, and purpose. They exist to make publicity, to remain in existence, to make publicity... ad nauseum.

In scenario #2 you win all 120% which leads to asking for 150%. Wining that leads to asking for 175%...until you become the oppressor. In turn the oppressed rightfully fight back, and the wheel keeps on spinnin' round.

I believe that the neo feminist movement is on the path for scenario #1. If a bit of diplomacy, and common sense doesn't gain traction in their movement they will be easily, and rightfully summarily dismissed as radicals. Setting hundreds of years of hard work back decades, or more. It is reasonable to ask for 120% and be happy at 100% it is not reasonable to ask for 200% and unflinchingly demand it at all cost. That only leads to becoming the bad guy and/or loosing all credibilty as a socially acceptable entity.

I very shocked an baffled how people view sexes the same as race.

It saddens me by the division between men and female.. everyone in here is lost and has no #ing idea what it means to be a man or a woman.. and what their relationship they should hold with each other.

disgusted.

Originally posted by hotel1
The feminists of the type you are describing are the ones that are bitterly angry at the male of the species, because only low quality, drunk men try to sleep with them.

edit on 29-7-2013 by hotel1 because: (no reason given)

This will be brief. The feminists of the "type" you are describing are feminists that are just tired of men making decisions for themselves and others that are destroying the world. This also includes women, that act like men to get ahead. They are tired of excusing the frequent poor judgement of men in positions of public and private power and remaining quiet about their true thoughts and feelings to spare men's feelings

It's a quite popular in Sandanavia (pardon my spelling). Sweden has a woman's party. The only financial company to come through the Iceland melt-down was women-led. Women are very conservative ( in the sense of saving resources) in business and politics - when allowed to be women.

Originally posted by Nevertheless
The really sad thing about them is that they are the ones who look down on feminine qualities, not the ones they are supposedly fighting. They want to BE men. And of course, they have all the right to do so, but they don't have to look down on those who do not wish to be disgusting stinking creatures.

You have this terribly wrong. Feminine qualities are not big boobs and butts, and endless catering to men.

Feminine qualities - that are scored in most workplaces as weak, are the ability to work together, build relationships over time, consider the long term consequences. None of which caters to the Monhtly bottom line. Most women who rise in Business & Politics have to be able to Play Like Men. Women don't play at other people's expense - they work for a better life.

I'm done. I went through a 'playing the game' phase and found it unsatisfying in many ways and did rather well. I deal openly with clients, customers, co-workers now - I'm not rich but my life is.

reply to post by votan


Men know what it is to be a man, some to a greater extent than others, and women know what its like to be a woman, some to a greater extent than others. Neither can truly understand what it is like to be the other.

I would like to see the relations between men and women be a certain way, and someplace deep inside me there is some hardwired sense as to how things should be ideally... but hey, the world is a messed up place and everyone gets put in limiting circumstances where they cannot be their best or find self-actualization.

I talk harshly about feminism and make excuses for men, but in the end it is all just a sad story about people trying to get by. Surely you can't blame them too much for that?

This isn't directed at anyone in particular, but, I just discovered the show Naked and Afraid; a reality survival show where one man, and one woman are dropped off in a remote location somewhere on the planet entirely nude where they must survive for 21 days.

I'm not sure if it's the casting, but, every episode I've seen, all the men are whiny will princesses such that I doubt they'd survive all their own where the women, though facing a tough time are all just like lalalalala, whatever yeah it sucks, but, hey, what's next?

The differences are quite striking and fun to watch in just this show.

Here's the ATS thread that talks about the show

I know lots of guys are just big crybabies regardless of how tough they might like to act and think themselves, but, this survival show seems to highlight a man's over inflated perception of self worth where the woman just takes it all in stride, just another day at the office.

It could be casting, but, all participants of the show are supposedly experienced die hard survivalists.

Watch the show yourself.
Makes one wonder about that whole NATURAL ORDER of things all over again

reply to post by Druscilla


Well that's obviously because the women aren't doing their jobs of comforting the men very well.

Anyway, It's rubbish the casting is probably dodgey. Most likely a woman selected the cast, for feministic ideals.

I don't know, but I believe that your post required a counter argument, something more masculist.

reply to post by Druscilla


Reminds me of The Blue Lagoon which was one of my favorite movies as a kid. My favorite survivalist book was Robinson Crusoe by Daniel Defoe. I read that many times when I was young, although that was about a lone man.

I haven't seen the show yet but I assume the men are making fires, building shelters, hunting hard to catch animals, and keeping predators at bay while the women do the more important tasks (that is what happens in reality anyway and not on a TV show).

And the women in the back of their minds are probably all like "I get it now. These men used to be really useful for keeping us alive by contending with nature and stuff. This back-to-the-basics experience was super humbling so maybe when all this is over and I get back to civilization I will tell my feminist sisters to stop emasculating them so much. Because God forbid we are ever in this situation for realz and the guys remember how ungrateful we were when things were going good."

Originally posted by djr33222
Both women and men are flawed. Women are inferior though. This is the truth in my opinion and I realize how insulting and non politically correct it is. I don't alter my opinions because they seen harsh or unpopular.

Enlighten me, why are women inferior? And perhaps you should consider changing your opinion because it lacks any factual evidence to back it up.

Why, yes. Women suffer too during war. However, the idea that women suffer more than men during war is ignorant and laughable.

I never said they suffered more, i just stated that it wasn't only men who suffered, this isnt a competition.

Women don't fight in war. If they do participate they don't see front-line combat.

Wrong, the Russians had Female snipers in WW2, the British had Female spy agents and once more, the reason why women weren't fighting with the men in those wars because they weren't seen as capable, so again, this isnt because of women shying away, its because of men barring them, im sure they had their reasons but to suggest women dont fight in wars is insulting.

Everyone suffers the externalities of war, I get that. But I can safely assume that war has ended the lives of more men by a ratio of 100:1, mangled more men by a ratio of 100:1 and worsened quality of life for more men to an unfathomable extent.

Civilians killed totaled from 38 to 55 million, including 13 to 20 million from war-related disease and famine. Total military dead: from 22 to 25 million, including deaths in captivity of about 5 million prisoners of war.

Wiki Source

Guess your idea of the majority of deaths being men is slightly inaccurate.

reply to post by djr33222

As a matter of fact, in the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan only 2 percent of all American casualties were women and those women saw no front-line combat. The statistics for World Wars 1 and 2 would be even more pronounced.

Afghanistan and Iraq are not wars, they are occupations. A war is when a country has the means to fight back.

You want women to be empowered?

I already am, i dont need your validation.

How about you make more of a stink to see front-line combat in extremely hostile situations? If you do that you would go a long way to justifying feminism.

That goes against my whole "War's are stupid and people should share more ethos" Think the world would be a better place if people didnt shoot first and ask questions later, you know what i mean?

That term was thought up by the founder of modern psychology. If you don't know anything about his theories, he was much more critical of men than he was of women. For every "belittling" theory he had about women there was a reciprocal one for men.

Well, its one theory he got wrong, and modern psychology has come along way, believe it or not, 99% of women dont want to be men. Seems silly really, we can have all the same things while holding onto our magical vaginas. I think a lot of men on this board suffer Vagina Envy

Exactly. No successful civilization can be formed without the subjugation of women because it must be built in spite of them not with their help. Once it is successful and stable women can be given a fair amount of flexibility.

I would argue, Egalitarian societies would develop much faster than patriarchal.

Seen is their truest aspect, they are unrestrained whirlwinds of chaos. Their maturity and adulthood comes as a result of hitting puberty, a bodily function bestowed by birth.

Sounds very dehumanising, we are just a biological function then? No thoughts and feeling, we just do as our body pleases?

For men this comes through action, something we are not born with, something we must aspire to.

Right right, you're the chosen ones then?

The ancients, in all their wisdom, found a women to be worthless if she could not give birth to a son. Her usefulness and responsibility started and ended with that task. Do you think that was just to spite women for being women or out of practicality? Do you think the subjugation of women during the burgeoning years of civilization was for no reason?

I think it wouldnt be the first time that men got things wrong and it wont be the last. You're a sexist and this will probably be the last time i reply to you because i dont really like your tone when you speak about women. Its quite sad really.

Like I said, if it wasn't for men there would be no civilization or extended humanity to begin with.

Humanity would be dead, but say women were to subjugate men, civilization's would still be built, you dont give enough credit to women.

There would be no problems to complain about since it wouldn't even be here. And guess what? Women are happy that the world is the way it is because it is relatively stable.

The world is anything but stable.

During times of great transformation, upheaval, or duress women have no empowerment and are relegated to subjugation. It is in their interest to keep things the way they are despite all the evil in the world.

No its not. Tell me, did your dick write this entire post??

If you do get women who really want to see a fundamental shift happen in the world how would they go about making it happen? They would ask men to do it, to die for it, and to suffer for it. Generally speaking.

Wrong, When women want change they go out and get it. The majority of activists in the feminist movement were *Shock* women, females who fought for basic simple rights. Dont act like men did it for them.

Anyway, im done correcting you. I know you're not gonna consider your views so i'll just send you on your way to be happily ignorant all your life.

reply to post by djr33222


Actually, they, the guys, mostly just wander around useless and complain a LOT.

Episode 3 of the show, the super soldier Recon Marine guy lay around, literally just laying there for the whole first week crying about wanting to quit because of his sunburn after the very first day when the girl was weaving a shelter together, weaving hats to protect from sun, finding and gathering coconuts for water, and essentially doing EVERYTHING.

The only thing the man did that episode was dig a hole for water that gave him the runny poops, where that was a complete waste of time since the water was toxic and the girl told him so before he drank it. And then the guy went swimming and found a clam that they ate.
Dug a worthless hole, and found a clam.

It's kinda like that every episode where the man is mostly useless, complains about everything done or not done, and the girl gets everything done regardless the dead weight and fragile, sometimes hostile egos of who they're stuck with.

Either the casting director and the film crew choose really worthless whiny men, or, these guys are an excellent estimation of a man's self perception of over importance.

Originally posted by FyreByrd

Originally posted by hotel1
The feminists of the type you are describing are the ones that are bitterly angry at the male of the species, because only low quality, drunk men try to sleep with them.

edit on 29-7-2013 by hotel1 because: (no reason given)

This will be brief. The feminists of the "type" you are describing are feminists that are just tired of men making decisions for themselves and others that are destroying the world. This also includes women, that act like men to get ahead. They are tired of excusing the frequent poor judgement of men in positions of public and private power and remaining quiet about their true thoughts and feelings to spare men's feelings

It's a quite popular in Sandanavia (pardon my spelling). Sweden has a woman's party. The only financial company to come through the Iceland melt-down was women-led. Women are very conservative ( in the sense of saving resources) in business and politics - when allowed to be women.

This will be even briefer, the three care quality commisions in the UK that failed recently were all lead by women.

reply to post by Druscilla


How long do you think you would survive in the wildness? or in a situation where zombies take over the world.

no woman has ever passed the SAS entrance course.

FACT.

All of the worlds most cleverest people throughout history are men.

FACT.

All of the worlds best sportsmen are men.

FACT.

The world greatest artists are men.

FACT.

The worlds greatest play wrights are men.

FACT.

The worlds greatest composers are men.

FACT.

The worlds greatest rock and pop bands are men.

FACT.

i could go on.

reply to post by bates


Yes but woman are the only one who can grow the baby to make men who do these wonderful things

Originally posted by Druscilla

This isn't directed at anyone in particular, but, I just discovered the show Naked and Afraid; a reality survival show where one man, and one woman are dropped off in a remote location somewhere on the planet entirely nude where they must survive for 21 days.

I'm not sure if it's the casting, but, every episode I've seen, all the men are whiny will princesses such that I doubt they'd survive all their own where the women, though facing a tough time are all just like lalalalala, whatever yeah it sucks, but, hey, what's next?

The differences are quite striking and fun to watch in just this show.

Here's the ATS thread that talks about the show

I know lots of guys are just big crybabies regardless of how tough they might like to act and think themselves, but, this survival show seems to highlight a man's over inflated perception of self worth where the woman just takes it all in stride, just another day at the office.

It could be casting, but, all participants of the show are supposedly experienced die hard survivalists.

Watch the show yourself.
Makes one wonder about that whole NATURAL ORDER of things all over again

Ok... You do realize that ALL of those 'reality shows' are scripted, right? It has nothing to do with casting, but more to do with what the producers/writers think people would want to see...

Originally posted by bates
no woman has ever passed the SAS entrance course.

FACT.

All of the worlds most cleverest people throughout history are men.

FACT.

All of the worlds best sportsmen are men.

FACT.

The world greatest artists are men.

FACT.

The worlds greatest play wrights are men.

FACT.

The worlds greatest composers are men.

FACT.

The worlds greatest rock and pop bands are men.

FACT.

i could go on.

Dont you see something incredibly wrong with this?

Women are well capable of all those things and much more, its just that in recent history women have not been given a fair chance to show it. Lambasted in many cases to stay in the kitchen and keep their mouths shut. It wasnt that long ago that women were not even allowed to vote!

Women these days are making incredible strides in the fields of Science, Technology, Enginneering etc, fields that were previously very very hard for a women to venture in to due to not being taken seriously.

I hope that in the future after women are granted equal pay etc and encouraged into these types of fields more then history will show how great women really are!

Marie Curie and others like her were the first to break the mold.

lets get to the crux of this thread. Who is the superior gender men or woman?

reply to post by bates


FACT you would never say that in front of a group of women, only hiding behind a keyboard.
Of course we have different physical traits but the rest? BS.