Race. We must talk about it, but we can't. Help, please?

reply to post by firemonkey


nobody said there was not discrimation against other races. in fact, there's discrimination all over the place. but only one of those groups is not allowed to say they are also being discriminated against, which is discrimination on steroids!

Originally posted by undo
reply to post by firemonkey

 

nobody said there was not discrimation against other races. in fact, there's discrimination all over the place. but only one of those groups is not allowed to say they are also being discriminated against, which is discrimination on steroids!

If you could prove they are truly being systematically discriminated against, then by all means talk about it.

The thing is though, is that this country is still run by white men...so who is discriminating against white men...other white men?

Just a few quick general thoughts.

Yes I think races are genetically different. Sickle cell and the NBA is sufficient proof. But men and women are genetically different and I have no trouble appreciating their special skills and talents. I don't know of any genetic differences which make me think one group is inferior, it just has different strengths.

I don't have much trouble with the idea that everybody is racist, especially in the sense of being wary of outsiders, or those who are different. What matters is, can we control it, or does it control us? Does it become the focus of our lives, do we see everything that happens as a result of racism? If so, I believe that person is no longer rational, but is putting his efforts into destructive rather than constructive paths.

No, I don't expect that this thread will solve all the racial problems in the country, but there's always the slim chance that some one will hit on it. I think ProfEmeritus with his reference to Getting to Yes may be on the right track. If he care to I can see a thread devoted to the interests Blacks and Whites share, and possible ways for meeting those interests.

But this thread is definitely worth while. I'd be surprised if we haven't changed our thoughts a little based on what's been said so far. That is valuable. Every thing we learn in this area could be vital. So thanks again for your wonderful participation.

With respect,
Charles1952

reply to post by firemonkey


Just a tad bit off topic...or is it?

I’m thinking that you must be of a liberal or socialist bent. The more you post, the more you become emotional with your replies. Am I right?

You pretty much started off on the attack and when other posters defend their positions, you double down.

Sorry, it doesn’t work that way. We are allowed to have our own opinions, no matter how dumb you may think they are.

I’ve looked over the thread and did not see where some one thought that affirmative action is racist. Just maybe past its time.

In your view, the only ones oppressed today are whites...and blacks need to just get over it.

No one said such a thing that I could see…except you.

And by the way, this is supposed to be a discussion, not an argument. So I'll give you this along that topic...

How you you think that we could fix/repair race relations?

Originally posted by firemonkey


If, however, whites would just open their eyes and realize that they have never and will never go through what blacks and other minorities have gone through and instead of trying to claim discrimination against themselves they instead just acknowledged the travesties of the past and ride out the healing process without being douchebags and claiming they are the real victim....our race issue would be over and done with a lot sooner.

Cut the crap, there is NOTHING whites can do to EVER get people like you to knock the BS off. It's a gravy train for you like the holocaust is for the jews, you'll keep chipping away. If we're even a fraction as terrible as you all say, then leave, go live in Asia or something, but we all know you won't.

Whites are guilt ridden into being the most charitable people on the planet, there is never a thanks for that. White people are finding their balls once again and it's scaring the hell out of the lot of you, sadly it took a Hispanic to do it.

reply to post by firemonkey


no, the country is run by an international crime syndicate, that is using racial tensions to destroy what our ancestors worked their butts off to create. they don't care about any of us. don't believe me, just listen to michael

reply to post by TDawgRex

How you you think that we could fix/repair race relations?

I already answered this.

Time...but only if Whites don't complicate the issue further by claiming they are the real victims/oppressed in this country.

reply to post by firemonkey

Dear firemonkey,

I hate to admit it, but this is getting difficult for me. You've told me that I seem racist and have said many very racist things. Can we clear that up? Will you give me a list of racist sayings? It's hard to talk with someone who is insulting you (at least it is for me).

But I'll try.

Apparently some white people, even some in this thread, think affirmative action is racist...I don't believe it is. It is a necessary and forceful method in order to give minorities a chance. If you don't think it is still necessary, then you must think that race relations are already healed and we don't have a problem with racism...which you actually just said isn't true.

Affirmative action is racist and discriminatory. It was instituted in an attempt to solve a problem. Many believe it was a cure worse than the disease. It is based on race, therefore it is racist. It is discriminatory because it treats the races differently.

So, you tell me...what do you think is something that is seen as racist but isn't???

To a large extent, the Black youth unemployment rate is caused by the abilities and history of the individual and not generalized racism.

In your view, the only ones oppressed today are whites...and blacks need to just get over it.

That is not what I said, nor what I believe. Would you be happier if I rephrased it as:
"Nearly every identifiable group has suffered from discrimination, it affects some groups more than others."

This is not intended to be snarky or an attack, but you have seen several of my responses to your posts. Why are we having such a hard time communicating? Is my writing unclear? Are you not reading carefully? What is it?

I'd rather not spend a lot of time correcting our misunderstandings, so if I'm doing something wrong, let me know. Oh, and don't forget the list of very racist things I've said. How can I correct errors if I don't know what they are.

reply to post by wingsfan

Cut the crap, there is NOTHING whites can do to EVER get people like you to knock the BS off. It's a gravy train for you like the holocaust is for the jews, you'll keep chipping away. If we're even a fraction as terrible as you all say, then leave, go live in Asia or something, but we all know you won't.

I'm white...so try again.

Whites are guilt ridden into being the most charitable people on the planet, there is never a thanks for that. White people are finding their balls once again and it's scaring the hell out of the lot of you, sadly it took a Hispanic to do it.

Wow.

OP, this is the problem with race relations in our country.

reply to post by firemonkey


Your color has nothing to do with it, it's your attitude.

Originally posted by namehere
one reason i think why racism seems to be such a big issue still is because all the race awareness stuff schools started teaching in the early 90's till today, all it has done is made people hyper-aware of differences between them and has made whites feel ashamed and like they as individuals did something wrong just for being white and that shame and wrongness has caused frustration, resentment and anger to build up, it's then made into hatred and other negative emotions and thoughts towards other races as a result.

What's silly about the race awareness teaching is that whole thing about kids being naturally non-discriminating. (They are, right?)

The lessons from school and cartoons obstruct every trace of that by presenting a message of: "We're all different, but still the same! See? Look how biologically separate but equal you are to people lighter/darker than you! Now, here's what to think when you encounter such beings who are just like you but look sort of different... oh, and don't worry, be happy."

At least it did for me. God, I miss the innocence of long ago.

Originally posted by firemonkey


I already laid out the only solution...and that is for whites to stop claiming they are the victims of racism.

Sorry, but that's the line of thinking that PROMOTES Racism, and keeps it Alive.

EVERY shade of colored human has been a victim of Racism at one time or another. EVERY shade of color has played the old card too. I will tell you experiencing it, leaves you with a different feeling, then claiming it. It can, if you let, eat you up inside. That's what this discussion is about. How can we move on from it. Teaching our children is the first step. When we see true Racism, we need to stop it in its tracks. We need to evolve. We don't need our leaders Pandering to it. We don't need our so called role models claiming Racism, when its not. We don't need our Media hyping up non issues to garner ratings. We need our leaders to help Minorities move on from the past. White or Black, or any color in between, we need to have discussions about Race so we can move on from this archaic and hateful way of thinking.

I'm sorry if you feel that the responses in this thread, are not helpful. Just imagine if Rosa Parks gave up her seat, years ago....... For me this is what makes ATS a great place. The discussion, and maybe the answer to it all.

Originally posted by firemonkey

Wow.

OP, this is the problem with race relations in our country.

You're Goddamn right it is, it's a one-way street. Whites are not allowed to have any say, just sit there and take your just desserts. We're tired of it ALL! If people are finally really wanting to handle this the right way, the fair and equal way, we'll be the first to join you. But this nonsense that white guilt has no foreseeable expiration date is BS.

Originally posted by LesMisanthrope
reply to post by charles1952

 

Judging based on the color of one's skin is a sign of irrationality.

edit on 16-7-2013 by LesMisanthrope because: (no reason given)

That couldn't be further from the truth.

There are certain unique traits associated with every race, which members of that race overwhelmingly possess.

It would be completely irrational to disregard this fact.

reply to post by firemonkey

Dear firemonkey,

Sure, wingsfan is getting a little hot under the collar, but is he the only one?

One of the points I really wanted to make is that if we are to have a real discussion we have to be able to look at each other's hurts. You consistently say that White discrimination is the only problem, and there is no cure until everybody currently alive dies off. That relieves the Black community of the responsibility of doing anything at all for the next several decades.

Wingsfan is hurt, so are you. You want us to listen to your complaints, but when wingsfan complains, he is labelled as the problem. If the goal is equal treatment, don't you think we'd better start?

Originally posted by firemonkey
reply to post by TDawgRex

 

How you you think that we could fix/repair race relations?

I already answered this.

Time...but only if Whites don't complicate the issue further by claiming they are the real victims/oppressed in this country.

I agree that time is needed, but let's make things even easier by saying no one is a victim/oppressed.

By covering up real victims of crime or oppression, you just continue to vindicate the behaviour. Everyone should have a voice. There should be no protected class.

It's called personnal responsibility. It's a individual thing, not race based.

we need to go back to the commonplace definition of "racism" and abandon the senseless notion that any crime against a specific skin color is inherently racist.

racism: hating/judging/holding animosity because of a specific skin color or perceived "race".

the big question that everyone is thinking is "was zimmerman racist?" the answer is probably not. the second big question is "are those carrying out attacks against whites/latinos because zimmerman got off actually racist?" the answer is a definitive yes.

i do not see a feasible way that one could disagree with the above statements.

Originally posted by Fromabove
What people are failing to see is the difference in races. We are all human beings and we are created by God equally, but every time we try to pretend that their is no color and no ethnic origin, etc. we deceive ourselves. So I'm going to say it here. It's bold, I know. And I hope I don't get a sticker on my post, but here goes anyway.

There is a difference between blacks and whites, there I said it. And there is a difference between Hispanics and blacks, and orientals and whites, and so on. Yes, they are all different and unique. When I see a black person, I know he's black. That's not a bad thing, just as being Chinese or white isn't a bad thing.

Blacks don't have to be white. It's not necessary to compete for "whitehood". What is needed is for black men and women to think about their children and make them better than what they are.

And all you whites out there, stop feeling guilty every time you're around black people like you owe them something. Instead treat them like any person you meet would be treated. The white guilt thing was paid for in the civil war with over 650,000 dead soldiers.

Now I said that we are born equal but we don't stay that way. The rest is all up to you. You can either live in run down cities fighting everyone and watch kids being killed all day or spaced out on drugs and gansta rap music, Or, you can make your cities good places to live and get the kids in schools and being somebody. And this goes for white people too. it's not like they have any edge on this either.

But the hatred for people because of their color or ethnic origin has got to stop. And we need to stop listening to the race baiters who don't give a hoot about anyone but themselves and glory.

edit on 16-7-2013 by Fromabove because: (no reason given)

Good post!!

Originally posted by MuzzleBreak

Originally posted by TKDRL
reply to post by Fromabove

 

The only real difference in race is physical appearance, that is it. A black child raised by a white couple, is going to turn out similar to the parents, and the community they live in. And viceversa. Most of how we turn out is decided by environment. There are exceptions to every rule of course, but that is likely how it plays out. And that is exactly why the scum in charge want all these divisions and hate. Kinda hard to improve your communities when you are too busy spewing hate and fighting everyone that is not like you, but in the same community. Easy for your community to turn to total crap, when you are told you are powerless, and are to rely on authority and stay inside afraid.

edit on Tue, 16 Jul 2013 21:06:25 -0500 by TKDRL because: (no reason given)

Numerous studies have shown that Race (DNA) does make a difference in behavior--criminal, sexual, intellectual, physical ability, etc. Recommend "Race, Evolution, and Behavior" by Rushton.

No question, but for some reason this face is fiercely denied.

Take the average IQ of the Ashkenazi for example.

reply to post by charles1952

I hate to admit it, but this is getting difficult for me. You've told me that I seem racist and have said many very racist things. Can we clear that up? Will you give me a list of racist sayings? It's hard to talk with someone who is insulting you (at least it is for me).

It's not meant to be insulting, I told you that I don't even think you are aware that some of the things you say are racist...and I don't think you do it out of any maliciousness at all...you are just a product of your environment where it is probably normal and acceptable to hold these views. You use a lot of coded phrases and words to not outright say what you mean...but it is easy to see through it when you have seen them so often.

One question and then some examples...do you think blacks are as smart as whites? If so, why bring up their test scores?

Some examples of what you have said.

Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson, Jr. also recieve increased donations for their various funds and foundations. If they weren't on the news, their doanations would not be as large. Next, power. If Sharpton and Jackson can call up a demonstration of thousands

Why only talk about them? Why not talk about Fox News, Glenn Beck, and Rush Limbaugh how use the opposite tactic as Sharpton and Jackson to gain viewers? The fan the flames just as much as Sharpton and Jackson do...but you only seem concerned about them.

Also, there are people who say "Sure, I'm a complete failure in life, but none of it's my fault, I've been discriminated against." That's a comforting thought, but not true as often as some think. There is created an internal force driving them to hold on to discrimination as an excuse for their failures.

Unless they are white and say this...then it is valid...right?

Will you allow me to point out achievement test scores, or the identity of those disrupting classrooms?

Tell me one other race that has so many illegal aliens in the country. Is it discrimination, or playing the odds?

You don't seem to understand that "playing the odds" in this case is racism.

The Blacks have to agree that some of it is due to their behavior and attitudes

Do you really not see the racism in that?

Some get past it, some don't.

You use so many code words and code phrases, do you realize you are doing it?

I'm not affected by anything done to my grandfather. How long will that reason last? Why not forever?

Your refusal to look at their history from their perspective is a little insensitive to claim that they shouldn't be affected by what happened in the past. Do women still suffer from unfair treatment in the past? If so, why not blacks or other minorities?

Affirmative action is racist and discriminatory. It was instituted in an attempt to solve a problem. Many believe it was a cure worse than the disease. It is based on race, therefore it is racist. It is discriminatory because it treats the races differently.

AA is not racist...it is the opposite of racist...it is to provide a chance to those that were denied a chance. It doesn't deny whites anything, it provides minorities an opportunity. It is based on race to provide opportunities...not to deny them...if you want to call it "racist"...then you will have to call it "positive racism". It does not treat races "differently"...it reserves certain opportunities for minorities so they all don't go to one single race (whites).

AA is the only reason blacks and minorities have made the progress they have made. Not because THEY are unable to without it, but because we still live in a world where white men for the most part control the economy and do the hiring and they would never be given a chance...without AA...I can guarantee you less and less minorities would be given an opportunity even if they are qualified.

To a large extent, the Black youth unemployment rate is caused by the abilities and history of the individual and not generalized racism.

Please expand on that thought.

That is not what I said, nor what I believe. Would you be happier if I rephrased it as:
"Nearly every identifiable group has suffered from discrimination, it affects some groups more than others."

This is not intended to be snarky or an attack, but you have seen several of my responses to your posts. Why are we having such a hard time communicating? Is my writing unclear? Are you not reading carefully? What is it?

The problem is that you didn't answer the question I asked...rather you danced around it.

Who do you think, in our current society, is oppressed (if anyone)???