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Race. We must talk about it, but we can't. Help, please?

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posted on Jul, 16 2013 @ 08:47 PM
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Originally posted by bigfatfurrytexan
reply to post by charles1952
 



My thoughts for education go more along the lines of: engage the students with work that interests them. Individualized lesson plans, etc. Seems difficult to achieve, but if we can do it with medicine, why not our childrens education?


BFFT..........


Seriously, Its what we need right now in the World. My suggestion for any Parent who has the time, or even single folks is to get involved with an organization like BBBS. Those children are in desperate need. The help folks could accomplish with just a few hours a week. Even a telephone call.

Sorry if I went off course, but I really believe in it.

Peace.




posted on Jul, 16 2013 @ 08:47 PM
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reply to post by firemonkey
 


That is due to class, not race. White people that live in the poor areas, have to go to the same exact poor schools. No it's not equal, but it has zero to do with race.



posted on Jul, 16 2013 @ 08:48 PM
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reply to post by sonnny1
 

Dear sonny1,

Brilliant! I'm kicking myself for not seeing it earlier.

I just feel that all children, all people for that matter are human. People are willing to look at a child and place "race" as a sticking point. When I see a child while working with BBBS, You would be surprised the love you get. I could easily be green, and it wouldnt matter.

Hate is the problem, love is the answer.

I remember in the Zimmerman trial (and no, I'm not making this about Zimmerman) witnesses testified to how much love he showed Black children, and a Black man wrongly accused. (For that matter, his Black High School prom date.) Could it be that he influenced those lives by the example of love and concern he was showing? Is that the path we are called to walk, regardless of risk to ourselves?

With respect,
Charles1952



posted on Jul, 16 2013 @ 08:52 PM
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reply to post by TKDRL
 


All good. Im not perfect by any means either.

Its awesome when your children catch you saying something, you shouldnt say though. It means you are doing something right....





posted on Jul, 16 2013 @ 08:55 PM
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Originally posted by firemonkey
reply to post by charles1952
 


Then if you recognize all of that, you should recognize that all races are still not equal in this country. African Americans still have a long way to go before they are "equal" to whites when it comes to education, opportunities, and quality of life. It has gotten much better...but not "equal" yet.

Hispanics also aren't "equal", in fact they may be experiencing more intense discrimination now than African Americans are. Tell me one other race that is accused of being illegal just by their looks? Or another race/ethnicity that has their language hated on, even by elected officials of this country?

I'm sure there are other races/ethnicities that are discriminated against as well, those are just the two biggest examples in this country right now.


So what makes race relations in this country difficult? Well to start off with, when whites act like they are now the victims and claim they are discriminated against. That doesn't help anything at all, it's a slap in the face to those that experience or experienced real discrimination.

So while it may seem unfair, whites in this country have no right or cause to complain about being discriminated against.


incorrect. we are individuals, unique individuals. your approach is similar to the concept of saying all men should be punished for what some men have done or do. did you know china has currently killed off over 150,000,000 females as a result of the one child policy? their orphanages are filled with females almost exclusively. men make up the bulk of prison populations because of their tendency to violence and similar crimes (a survival of the fittest function). should all men then be ostracized? they are, afterall, genetically different than women and have a track record, thousands of years long. should women who have been discriminated against not complain ? according to your rationale, only non white people have the right to complain about anything. and every white person should just shut the hell up. i got news for you, you're part of the problem -- not the solution.



posted on Jul, 16 2013 @ 08:58 PM
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I probably shouldn't be posting because I've been designated a "people like you" by many ATS members and I interpret that as someone thinking my opinion doesn't count because it's different than theirs.

So I'll just listen....
edit on 16-7-2013 by olaru12 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 16 2013 @ 08:58 PM
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What people are failing to see is the difference in races. We are all human beings and we are created by God equally, but every time we try to pretend that their is no color and no ethnic origin, etc. we deceive ourselves. So I'm going to say it here. It's bold, I know. And I hope I don't get a sticker on my post, but here goes anyway.

There is a difference between blacks and whites, there I said it. And there is a difference between Hispanics and blacks, and orientals and whites, and so on. Yes, they are all different and unique. When I see a black person, I know he's black. That's not a bad thing, just as being Chinese or white isn't a bad thing.

Blacks don't have to be white. It's not necessary to compete for "whitehood". What is needed is for black men and women to think about their children and make them better than what they are.

And all you whites out there, stop feeling guilty every time you're around black people like you owe them something. Instead treat them like any person you meet would be treated. The white guilt thing was paid for in the civil war with over 650,000 dead soldiers.

Now I said that we are born equal but we don't stay that way. The rest is all up to you. You can either live in run down cities fighting everyone and watch kids being killed all day or spaced out on drugs and gansta rap music, Or, you can make your cities good places to live and get the kids in schools and being somebody. And this goes for white people too. it's not like they have any edge on this either.

But the hatred for people because of their color or ethnic origin has got to stop. And we need to stop listening to the race baiters who don't give a hoot about anyone but themselves and glory.





edit on 16-7-2013 by Fromabove because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 16 2013 @ 09:03 PM
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reply to post by charles1952
 


Agree 100%

Really, I cant say this enough. It starts at home. It starts with children. As long as there are those willing to teach their children, Race is lifes deciding factor, the walls will remain. And I do believe there are times when you have to talk about race, but not everything hinges on it. Sheer Ignorance will always have its place, but we can be better humans if we think before we speak,and think before we Act.

Thanks Charles for the thread, and keeping it very civil.



posted on Jul, 16 2013 @ 09:05 PM
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reply to post by Fromabove
 


The only real difference in race is physical appearance, that is it. A black child raised by a white couple, is going to turn out similar to the parents, and the community they live in. And viceversa. Most of how we turn out is decided by environment. There are exceptions to every rule of course, but that is likely how it plays out. And that is exactly why the scum in charge want all these divisions and hate. Kinda hard to improve your communities when you are too busy spewing hate and fighting everyone that is not like you, but in the same community. Easy for your community to turn to total crap, when you are told you are powerless, and are to rely on authority and stay inside afraid.
edit on Tue, 16 Jul 2013 21:06:25 -0500 by TKDRL because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 16 2013 @ 09:06 PM
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Charles,

As always, you have my respect and I am so glad that you were the one to create a REAL thread that should drown-out the crap threads filling the site. Most of them are ignorant and fail to get to the heart of the matter.



So, who really wants a serious discussion, and what does that mean?


I love a great discussion and that means we need to grow a pair of balls and talk about race like young kids!


How many of us remember our parents teaching us the saying, "Sticks and stones may break my bones, but words will never hurt me"?

A child would learn that saying and could ward off the meanies with a simple "sticks and stones" and would go about their real task....playing and getting dirty. As children, could we not play with kids of different races without any worries except for who was tagged last?

Yet as adults, we think were so grown up, smart and wise but we go out into the world and learn to be bigoted, hateful, spiteful, ignorant and stupid people that lose the simple ability to accept our differences for what they are and get along.

We need to take a step back to childhood and once again learn to say "Ya, were different....wanna play?".

I know that is a simple way of saying it, but I hope you get my point. The answer to this issue is just so damn simple its embarrassing. But we cannot take that step because we are as a society irrational, emotional nitiwts....that could learn a thing or two from childhood lessons.

Again, great thread!



posted on Jul, 16 2013 @ 09:15 PM
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reply to post by sheepslayer247
 


listen up you nazi cracker (hehehe that is hitler playing bango in your avatar isn't it?)

i'm just gonna start calling myself, saltine ritz.
pure as the driven umm, sodium chloride.




posted on Jul, 16 2013 @ 09:17 PM
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reply to post by undo
 



should women who have been discriminated against not complain ? according to your rationale, only non white people have the right to complain about anything. and every white person should just shut the hell up. i got news for you, you're part of the problem -- not the solution.


Women have every right to complain about past and present discriminations, just as blacks, Hispanics, and other minorities do in this country.

White males are making are prolonging the problem and making the problem worse by claiming they are discriminated against. That would be like a male crying about a woman making more than him on an individual basis, and claim it is gender discrimination. When white males do this, they marginalize the real discrimination that minorities and women have suffered, and continue to suffer, from their demographic.

If you don't think this is a problem, then YOU are part of the problem.



posted on Jul, 16 2013 @ 09:18 PM
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Originally posted by charles1952

You don't see any reason for a change and I don't either, except that if we follow this path for even another generation I think we'll crumble. Whether it's race or class, I don't see survival for even 60 yers as an option.

What does your crystal ball say?

With respect,
Charles1952


My Crystal Ball is very murky. Ever since they switched from analog to digital, reception sucks.



I see pretty much nothing but trouble as long as we stay on the path we are currently on. But there in the back of my head a little voice is telling me that is exactly what we need.

Nothing like shared suffering to bring people together.

But I do wish we were smarter than that.



posted on Jul, 16 2013 @ 09:22 PM
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Originally posted by TKDRL
reply to post by Fromabove
 


The only real difference in race is physical appearance, that is it. A black child raised by a white couple, is going to turn out similar to the parents, and the community they live in. And viceversa. Most of how we turn out is decided by environment. There are exceptions to every rule of course, but that is likely how it plays out. And that is exactly why the scum in charge want all these divisions and hate. Kinda hard to improve your communities when you are too busy spewing hate and fighting everyone that is not like you, but in the same community. Easy for your community to turn to total crap, when you are told you are powerless, and are to rely on authority and stay inside afraid.
edit on Tue, 16 Jul 2013 21:06:25 -0500 by TKDRL because: (no reason given)


Numerous studies have shown that Race (DNA) does make a difference in behavior--criminal, sexual, intellectual, physical ability, etc. Recommend "Race, Evolution, and Behavior" by Rushton.



posted on Jul, 16 2013 @ 09:24 PM
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Originally posted by bigfatfurrytexan
reply to post by beezzer
 


Afraid. Yes.

And it may not have anything to do with the physical. The ego tends to be supported when one is validated in groupthink.


"The ego tends to be supported when one is validated in groupthink."

Brilliant.

Charles, as the Bigfatfurrytexan brilliantly stated, the ego, or to expand, fear of damage to the ego, is lessened when one is part of the group.

This can apply to skin pigment, nationality, sports team support, school membership, club membership (ATS?) and any other type of group.

Fear drives irrational hatred.
Fear sparks the riots.
Fear creates the oppourtunity to enact vengeance.

Fear.



posted on Jul, 16 2013 @ 09:25 PM
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reply to post by firemonkey
 

Dear firemonkey,

You may not have outlined a good way to start a discussion. I know I'd be reluctant to join in. Maybe I could be persuaded, but I would not go into it expecting any good result.


So while it may seem unfair, whites in this country have no right or cause to complain about being discriminated against.
If, before we we even start the discussion, you tell me which of my feelings are legitimate, then you're not interested in discussion. If I present facts on how affirmative action has been ruled as racial discrimination, but that it will be allowed because of a desire for "diversity," and you tell me I can't complain about it, are we not doomed from the start? It's like a judge telling a lawyer that he cannot provide a defense or cross-examine a prosecution witness.


Then if you recognize all of that, you should recognize that all races are still not equal in this country. African Americans still have a long way to go before they are "equal" to whites when it comes to education, opportunities, and quality of life.
Certainly that's true. A quick look at youth unemployment figures tells us that. But are you willing to look for reasons, or will you insist that it's just discrimination? Will you allow me to point out achievement test scores, or the identity of those disrupting classrooms? Or can it only be because of discrimination?


Hispanics also aren't "equal", in fact they may be experiencing more intense discrimination now than African Americans are. Tell me one other race that is accused of being illegal just by their looks?
Tell me one other race that has so many illegal aliens in the country. Is it discrimination, or playing the odds? And are you prepared to take the position that that's worse than what Blacks are experiencing?

Before we have a discussion, the whites have to agree there is some discrimination. The Blacks have to agree that some of it is due to their behavior and attitudes, and that it's legitimate for Whites to feel discriminated against, as well.

Blaming every piece of misfortune on some "man" who is trying to hold a race down, is no longer believable or serious.

Still ready for a discussion?

With respect,
Charles1952



posted on Jul, 16 2013 @ 09:27 PM
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Originally posted by firemonkey
reply to post by undo
 



should women who have been discriminated against not complain ? according to your rationale, only non white people have the right to complain about anything. and every white person should just shut the hell up. i got news for you, you're part of the problem -- not the solution.



White males are making are prolonging the problem and making the problem worse by claiming they are discriminated against.

.


but some of them ARE discriminated against. if you insist on ignoring that, you are STILL the problem, not the solution. as long as each person is not addressed as an individually unique creation of limitless value to the rest of creation, but rather as a skin color, this problem will never resolve. you are exacerbating the problem by not acknowledging that it exists. even if it happens less often (which i am beginning to suspect is not the case but instead it is increasing in severity against whites) than it does to minority populations, the idea you would ignore that because of the color of the person's skin, proves to me you are a raging racist.



posted on Jul, 16 2013 @ 09:35 PM
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reply to post by MuzzleBreak
 


I am on page 14 and I am really having a hard time taking all that seriously.....



posted on Jul, 16 2013 @ 09:36 PM
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reply to post by olaru12
 

Dear olaru12,

Please don't stay away from us. We need different opinions, no one here can see race, sex, age, anything, except what you decide to share. And your thoughts are different from anyone else's.

Please come in, I'll give you a back rub, I'll rub your feet. (Please join in, I'm embarrassing myself here.
)

With respect,
Charles1952



posted on Jul, 16 2013 @ 09:40 PM
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I try to be honest with myself (though it is hard and sometimes hurts) and will be with you, the members of ATS as well. I have stated before that I am prejudice. As try as I might, I cannot wipe that away. It is part of me, just as it is part of everybody else.

But at least I can define it (or refine if you will). I look at people as just that. First and foremost, they are fellow human beings, then I see them as Americans, Germans, Algerians, Chinese, etc. I don’t hyphenate people. Heck I like experiancing different cultures, as long as it isn’t violent.

But then the prejudice comes into play. How are they acting? How are they treating others? Does it meet my standards? If not, why? Do I meet theirs and is it acceptable to both parties?

I hate it when people paint others with a broad brush but I am guilty of it as well from time to time and I always kick myself in the ass for doing so.

I imagine that many people are like me, and that is one of the reasons humanity will never get along. If it’s not race, then it’s political or religious ideology, or class warfare, etc, etc.

edit on 16-7-2013 by TDawgRex because: Fat Paws and no thumbs



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