Islam: What the West Needs to Know (full documentary)

reply to post by wildtimes

The Muslims fight among themselves - maiming and slaughtering each other - rather than standing as a unified body of peace-loving, benevolent people minding their own business. They don't - they never have.

If Islam had a "unified" code of conduct, it might be different. But they don't. They are too loosely structured, with no clear leadership - so it's a "wildfire" out of control.

Oddly, most of the Muslim participants that come to ATS do not disclose which "sect" they claim - or they say they don't affiliate with ANY of them.

you want muslims to be a unified body and yet you are persistent to find out the "sect" of the ones who don't want to be divided and want to be just "MUSLIM"??
Islam has a unified code and provision for a central leadership, The Khilafah. It was abolished after WWI by planting the seed of nationalism and making arabs fight the turks by giving false promises to arabs. The effects of which can still be seen.
The muslims are unfortunately divide by nationalities, sects, tribes etc while Islam calls them to be united under one faith.
You wildtimes may welcome it but the people in your OP video scare people by it.

I want the muslim world to be united into one Islamic Union. Not to rule the world but to bring peace and crush the greedy war mongering machine/system that is destroying the world.

I am not naive to think that the war mongers will go down without a fight and i am aware of the reality and what it will come down to.

I am sorry Wildtimes but the PEACE you want is not so easy to achieve as it conflicts the interests of the ones pulling the strings.

The best you can do is understand who is the aggressor and who is reacting to that aggression.

The peace will come ultimately but before things get better, they'l get much worst.

The only thing i want from you is to not believe what you'l be made to believe to justify much worse aggressions.

From everyone in general and Muslims in specific i expect this,

O ye who believe! stand out firmly for justice, as witnesses to God, even as against yourselves, or your parents, or your kin, and whether it be (against) rich or poor: for God can best protect both. Follow not the lusts (of your hearts), lest ye swerve, and if ye distort (justice) or decline to do justice, verily God is well- acquainted with all that ye do.(4:135)

reply to post by wildtimes

The film covers the Quran, the Hadith, the sequence of events starting with the "peaceful Islam" being at the very beginning of Mohammed's career in Mecca -

...experts explain it VERY WELL.

What exactly qualifies them as "experts"?
At best, all they have are certain biased opinions and some books to their credit.

Islam is an all encompassing system of life, governing, AND religion - and they intend for it to be THE WHOLE WORLD.

Intention and implementation are two different things.
Someone who is forced to convert to Islam would never acknowledge Mohammad as a prophet and so are obviously NOT Muslims.

....and think it is their OBLIGATION to Allah to make EVERYONE obey Sharia, and DO AWAY with democracy.

Muslims ruled India for many centuries... and yet India has retained its hindu country. Why is that?
What happened to their "obligation to Allah to make everyone obey Shariah"? Hmmm?

I have to wonder why Britain is being controlled by Brussels and then I saw this Video which makes me think:



Control gets to be kept and run by the EU Electorate in Brussels .... look at the growth of 'Muslims' in Belgium and Europe over the last 20 years!

I do actually believe they are trying to take over the World... they just havn't done it by Force, they are doing it by Immigration and then not using protection when having sex!

In this short video, it states that Belgium will be an Islamic state in 20 years time.

At the same time, I have to wonder why all the Europeans moved out and allowed this to happen??

I didnt even hear about Muslims until around 1995.... until then they were OUT OF SIGHT.... OUT OF MIND. 20 years on and they are all over the place...

Originally posted by wildtimes
I want PEACE.

There can be no real peace without 'live and let live'. And the only way to have 'live and let live' is for people to evolve past the foolishness that comes with organized religion insinuating itself onto those who haven't bought into their rhetoric.

reply to post by logical7

Islam has a unified code and provision for a central leadership, The Khilafah. It was abolished after WWI by planting the seed of nationalism and making arabs fight the turks by giving false promises to arabs. The effects of which can still be seen.
The muslims are unfortunately divide by nationalities, sects, tribes etc while Islam calls them to be united under one faith.

Seems pretty logical, then, that "The Khilafah" needs to be, um, shall we say - "resurrected"?
No?

Seems also obvious that "the unfortunate division by nationalities, sects, tribes, etc" is a basic ROOT of the problem, then. So how is 'the West' to blame when the Muslims tore apart from each other to begin with? If "you all" can't even get along amongst yourselves, then the violence is on "you all." Clean it up, and THEN come and tell us, "Okay, look. We get your concerns, and we've agreed to stop warring with each other."

That would be a good start! And that goes for ALL of the big three: Judaism, Christianity, and Islam.

Ba'hai, for example includes ALL RELIGIONS even buddhism and hindu - as well as Christians, Jews, and Muslims. Their temples are inscribed with symbols of ALL religions.
THEY are the only ones who "we" Westerners can see promoting 'global peace' - and THEY are being killed by Muslims, too.

reply to post by logical7

I am not naive to think that the war mongers will go down without a fight and i am aware of the reality and what it will come down to.

The problem is that a lot of people believe the actual war mongers... you know, the ones with state-of-the-art military technology and bases around the world.... are the good guys.

reply to post by sk0rpi0n


Okay, why don't you and logical and babloyi make a video with as many references, as well outlined and literate, as these people who've been studying this stuff for decades?

Stop deflecting and answer the points in the video.

Not ONE of you has offered up a "counterpoint" documentary to refute what these folks are saying. Anderson Cooper did a seeming fair job of casting aspersions on "Shoebat's" story - fine, take him out of the equation. Credibly show us that the rest of the people who spoke are ALSO frauds, ignorant liars, and warmongers.

Please.

Originally posted by Akragon

Originally posted by logical7

Originally posted by Akragon
After watching this entire video...

All I can say is...

I have questions...

S&F

Hey Akragon!

SHOOT!!

I mean the questions, one at a time!

I suppose we should start with the last page...

Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by babloyi

 

I don't see anything in this video that says otherwise...

It basically says islam is evil...

I just learned that Mohammad told his people to lie in order to kill one of his opponents...

Is it true?

and what difference my reply will make?
A NO could just be a lie that i am saying as my religion commands


a muslim is allowed to lie when forced to give up his religion etc.

If a man holds a gun to my head and tells me to renounce Islam and have ham with a beer, i am allowed to do it and get away unhurt but rarely a muslim would actually use that flexibility. We muslims kind of have a stiff neck that only bows down to God not to a jerk with a gun or anyone else be it the best military in the world!

Top 10 Problems with Islamic Sharia law

10: Islam commands that drinkers and gamblers should be whipped. (There goes my weekend! LoL)

9: Islam allows husbands to hit their wives even if the husbands merely fear highhandedness in their wives. (My mother taught me better than to hit girls, shame on them!)

8: Islam allows an injured plaintiff to exact legal revenge—physical eye for physical eye. (Depends on the circumstance.)

7: Islam commands that a male and female thief must have a hand cut off. (Seems rather harsh, what if it's food that they steal?)

6: Islam commands that highway robbers should be crucified or mutilated. (Do they mean the Tax man? I can live with that! LoL)

5: Islam commands that homosexuals must be executed. (Just sad! People are what they are after all.)

4: Islam orders unmarried fornicators to be whipped and adulterers to be stoned to death. (Some fornicators would pay to be whipped!)

3: Islam orders death for Muslim and possible death for non—Muslim critics of Muhammad and the Quran and even sharia itself. (Your Sharia laws are bull crap come and get me!)

2: Islam orders apostates to be killed. (Cant comment since I don't quite know what an apostate actually does pertaining to Islam)

1: Islam commands offensive and aggressive and unjust jihad. (IMHO this is the main problem!)

Don't know about anyone else but i just could not follow a code of laws that promotes and justifies in the name of Allah the above atrocities!

And the beat goes on!

www.americanthinker.com...

reply to post by sk0rpi0n

The problem is that a lot of people believe the actual war mongers... you know, the ones with state-of-the-art military technology and bases around the world.... are the good guys.

What about the warmongers among the Muslim SECTS who are invading places like Mali, Sudan, Congo, and the both-Muslim sides in Syria?

STOP SHIFTING BLAME and ADDRESS THE QUESTIONS.
The "problem" is that a lot of people just want to blame somebody ELSE rather than take accountability for their own activities.

Another point made in the doc was about how Lebanon and Jordan and Egypt and Turkey were not "always Muslim" - there's a nifty graphic of where the trouble is - do you dispute that? Do you dispute the animated map that shows how Muhammed went about 'conquering' all those countries? Yeah, he didn't do that by coming in and shaking hands, either.

We don't have infighting among the "sects" here in America slaughtering each other on a daily basis - we have violent street gangs, though, and racial tension. Which we're addressing head on by denouncing ALL OF IT as bad for our country. People who commit hate crimes are rounded up and dealt with - removed from society.

And frankly, I don't see much difference between "gang hostility" and "Muslim hostility." Why are the 'trouble-making minority' not rounded up and dealt with - and if impossible to "re-educate" - removed from society?

How do you suggest Islam can "get it together", please? You all want to "lead" - if Islam wants the respect of the world, they need to Lead by Example.
Not with your interpretation of an outdated, translated text. I guarantee you that if suddenly ALL Muslims stopped attacking each other, by some miracle they all laid down their weapons and agreed to cooperate toward a common goal, things would change.

reply to post by wildtimes

Okay, why don't you and logical and babloyi make a video with as many references, as well outlined and literate, as these people who've been studying this stuff for decades?

"studying this stuff for decades"

What about the generations of Muslim scholars who have not only been studying this stuff all their lives?
Are we supposed to believe that these guys, with an agenda against Islam have a better understanding of those things? There are plenty of videos by Muslims offering the Muslim side of the same matters that those "experts" are bringing up.

Stop deflecting and answer the points in the video.

Why don't you answer what I asked you earlier.

Muslims ruled India for many centuries... and yet India has retained its hindu country. Why is that?
What happened to their "obligation to Allah to make everyone obey Shariah"... that you were speaking of?

reply to post by sk0rpi0n

Are we supposed to believe that these guys, with an agenda against Islam have a better understanding of those things? There are plenty of videos by Muslims offering the Muslim side of the same matters that those "experts" are bringing up.

WHERE? Give us a link to one (or preferably 2, or...say, 17). Now, please.

reply to post by sk0rpi0n

Muslims ruled India for many centuries... and yet India has retained its hindu country. Why is that?
What happened to their "obligation to Allah to make everyone obey Shariah"... that you were speaking of?

I don't LIVE IN INDIA - and from what I can tell, they are not AT WAR with anyone. So I'm not focusing on them.

Why would you bring up India? Is that where you are? We know logical is in India. The documentary mentions Kashmir as being a 'hot-spot'. We also have millions of Muslims HERE in the US, who are not "warring" with each other. (They DO from time to time kill, maim, etc. - their own family members, or total strangers. And they are swiftly prosecuted and charged. From there the legal system takes over - they are entitled to representation, even if they can't afford a lawyer, and they are free to plead innocent and get a trial.)

reply to post by logical7

If a man holds a gun to my head and tells me to renounce Islam and have ham with a beer, i am allowed to do it and get away unhurt but rarely a muslim would actually use that flexibility. We muslims kind of have a stiff neck that only bows down to God not to a jerk with a gun or anyone else be it the best military in the world!

Another EXCELLENT point made in the vid in the OP:
Muslims do not see Islam as a "personal religion" or "choice" -
there is too much "pride" and too little regard for "life".

It is just stupid to refuse to do what the guy with the gun to your head says. And that's one of the problems - trying to "force" anyone to do anything is bad. But to be stupid enough to let yourself get kiilled over ham and a beer and a few words being spoken? Sorry, that's stupid. It's not worth it. Some things just aren't important enough to die for.

I'm all for standing for what you believe is "right" - but you have to address that Muhammed did just that - swept in with armies, killed and tortured people, ruined their cities. Do you deny that? Or justify it? I DON'T. And I won't be part of any organization that has done that to others - not Christians - not Jews - not Nazis - and NOT MUSLIMS.

If some Muslim punk comes up with a molotov cocktail and demands that I put on a burka or die, AND I can't figure out how to defend myself by face-to-face combat or disarming him - in which I've been trained - AND I can't get to my own firearm - I'll put the damned thing on - I'm not suicidal - and as soon as he turns his back, I will RUN AWAY, call the police, and have him arrested. If the police are on his side, they're no good. So, I run away. Just like all the young girls being maimed and killed and shot in the face for wanting to go to school, escape a brutal old fart husband, child sex-slavery in marriage, etc.


The documentary even addresses that - that Muslims in America and other Western countries are "behaving" only until they have enough numbers to overthrow the government and take control of EVERYONE.

Is that a lie? In Luton it appears to be the truth - was that all "staged" by the young lady whose home-town has been invaded by those people screaming for "death to Britain"?

reply to post by wildtimes

What about the warmongers among the Muslim SECTS who are invading places like Mali, Sudan, Congo, and the both-Muslim sides in Syria?

Ah yes, they all have a hi-tech military that is rivaled only by America's. Right?
As always the rag-tag guerilla commander in some third world country.... or some angry looking protester has been made the face of Islam. So how about we make Robert Bales (killed sleeping women and children) the face of America?

And what do you mean "both Muslim sides in Syria"? One of the sides is western backed.
But I guess all you see are muslim looking guys shooting and bombing each other. Kind of how, some people saw mostly Christian / American / European looking guys shooting and bombing each other in the last 2 world wars. Should we conclude the same thing about America and Europe.

STOP SHIFTING BLAME and ADDRESS THE QUESTIONS.

If the party in question is worthy of blame, then they will be blamed. Its part of the discussion.
The West is in no position to talk about how violent Muslims are.... when they have their own history of bloodshed and violence, an order of magnitude higher than any Islamic terror group.

reply to post by wildtimes

Why would you bring up India?

Because Indias example completely disproves your prrevious statement that Muslims have an obligation to Allah to make everyone obey Shariah".

Looking at Indias example, we know Muslims ruled India for centuries but did not make everybody obey Shariah, as India is still pretty much a Hindu country.

And yes, I will keep bringing India up every time someone posts nonsense about Muslims wanting to make everybody obey Shariah.

reply to post by wildtimes

Credibly show us that the rest of the people who spoke are ALSO frauds, ignorant liars, and warmongers.

it has been shown by other posters, try the site loonwatch and spencerwatch to find more about Robert Spencer and when you are at it read about Pamela Geller a close associate of Spencer and also go to his site jihadwatch and look at the comments under any article.
You are the one who assume them as experts while none has any academic qualification in the subject.

reply to post by sk0rpi0n

And what do you mean "both Muslim sides in Syria"? One of the sides is western backed.

What about it? I know that, and I have protested it. I am AGAINST sending "aid" to rebels. Even if the 'backers' backed off completely, those "rebels" would STILL be getting killed by, and killing, rival Muslims. One of the "sides" is western-backed Muslims, locals! The Assad regime was not attacked by "western armies", bub.

There are also Muslims coming in from other countries to join the melee. Muslims against Muslims. Arab Spring.

West should never have interfered, perhaps. Would you rather they just allow you all to destroy each other? No care for the innocent civilians being killed, maimed, exiled? Their lives ruined?
You prefer that the world just doesn't give a crap about ANY OF YOU?

We should just sit back and allow Muslims to take over Western countries without a fuss?

reply to post by wildtimes

There are also Muslims coming in from other countries to join the melee. Muslims against Muslims. Arab Spring.

Like I said,
All you see are muslim looking guys shooting and bombing each other. Kind of how, some people saw mostly Christian / American / European looking guys shooting and bombing each other in the last 2 world wars.

Should we conclude the same thing about America and Europe?

reply to post by sk0rpi0n


And the Indian Muslims consider themselves "put-upon", and "persecuted" by the Indian government. I read a study by a Sufi outlet about the terrible conditions of the Indian Muslims. That's not "peaceful cohabitation." Obviously the Hindus don't like the way the Muslims behave, and don't want to include them in their society much. Why is that?

WHY IS IT, do you think, that people don't "like Muslims" in so many parts of the world?