Islam: What the West Needs to Know (full documentary)

reply to post by babloyi


babloyi,

The "crux" of his argument is:

The video disagrees, claiming that Islam is the only religion teaching the death or subjugation of non-believers.

Which goes against his own talking point #2.

Nobody here has ever denied that these things can't be found in Islam, but to say they are only found in Islam is disingenuous, especially when turning around and stating that evidence from other religions to refute this claim is somehow off-limits.

reply to post by charles1952

One, I assume that the video presents facts, analysis, and opinion. Please watch the thread to see what the objections to it are. I mean by that, are people attacking the messenger instead of the message? Are people making arguments like, it will take 150 million Muslims to take over the country, when clearly an urban area like Dearborn, Michigan could be controlled by far fewer? Muslims in Europe don't wait until they can control the entire country all at once. Consider the Muslim controlled areas in England, France, Sweden, etc.

Yep! I'm trying my very best to be neutral. And ATS is not the only source I look at. I look at right-wing, left-wing, anarchy-wing, socialist-wing.......
EXTREMIST- wings

To be honest, I think I'll start a new thread:
"Real" Christians + "Real" Muslims =

?????????????????????

War? Peace?
or add in '+"real" Jews' ............

= Hitler?

I HONESTLY don't know WHO or WHAT to believe. It's a horrible, scary mess.
I'm very troubled, and sad, and I'm trying my LEVEL BEST to make sense of it.

reply to post by LuFri


Thanks, LuFri. I'll look at it.....

If you want to learn more about this, you should watch this:



It is called The Grand Deception: The Islamic Threat by Steven Emerson. Gives a scary glimpse of extremist Islam in the west. The secret agenda of the Muslim Brotherhood. The threat is real, and in my opinion there are agents of the brotherhood in various forums throughout the net.

reply to post by TruthxIsxInxThexMist

There are many different branches of 'Islam' too.... why so many branches if they all want the same end result?

Is that just to cause confusion for those who aren't 'Muslim'?

I HONESTLY don't know. I seriously do NOT know what to think.

So, I'm leaning toward ignoring ALL OF THEM, and just carrying on with my life.
I don't believe (read: my hope is dwindling) that I will ever know the real 'truth.'

reply to post by MidnightTide


Okay. Thanks.
But, I have to say, I have NO confidence in Fox News. I've come to believe they are as bad as the UK's "dailymail".

Can you provide something else that is NOT "Fox"?
Not dissing you -
just, don't think Fox is real.

Thanks for participating, MT.

reply to post by wildtimes


The full movie used to be on youtube, but it got pulled. That was the best I could find in short notice.

reply to post by babloyi

I've seen the original, and although I still kinda consider it a personal fluff piece rather than any sort of investigative reporting, it tells me that this fringe is exactly that- an extremist fringe, and not the mainstream, with less than 100 people at that protest, supposedly the entirety of this "Al-Muhajiron's" following, that had to be called in from all over, vs 30,000 muslims in Luton. That makes them....what....less than 0.33%? Hardly indicative of the whole.

Okay......
babloyi, can you please give us source links to back up your understanding?
PLEASE?

I'm not trying to be difficult.
I'm trying to UNDERSTAND!

There are two sides to this debate.

I myself am neutral - I don't subscribe to ANY organized religion - but I am concerned for the future of humanity, and my children, and THEIR children.
Like I suggested earlier, I'm thinking about a new thread: "Real" Muslims + "Real" Christians = Peace? War?
WHAT?!!!!

Then you add in to those two, "Real" Jews, and.....the options are "Peace? War? Or Hitler?"

I don't WANT TO be negative. I just don't know WHAT TO DO, or WHO TO BELIEVE!

I don't believe the US government's stories either!!!!
I think the US policy of Joint Special Ops is HORRID!!!!

I'm Against ALL OF IT!

What can we do to promote global PEACE?

PLEASE GIVE ME TOOLS.

reply to post by InverseLookingGlass

If you are an atheist you will likely not trust any religion.

I'm not an atheist.
I'm an agnostic doing the best research I know how to do.
I am NEUTRAL and a-religious.

And I STILL don't trust ANY religion. That's the whole point.
Thanks for your comment.

reply to post by RAY1990

Dear RAY1990,

Thanks for your kind words, they're undeserved, but appreciated nonetheless.

Yes, I think Human Rights exist. People disagree about what they are, but they're there. "Endowed by their Creator with certain inalienable rights . . ."

In general, I'm for more rights, rather than fewer. When a government decides to grant a right, however, they are also saying they have the power to take it away. In the American system, the rights came to the people from God, and the only reason the government has any power at all is because the people were willing to surrender some of their powers to make government possible.

I'm not yet sold on the concept of Hate Crimes, that is, if you beat somebody to a pulp because of his religion, you get more punishment than if you had beaten him to a pulp because of his hair color.

Do you believe in human rights?

Because if you do it does not matter if a murderer,terrorist,rapist or any other nasty kind of person you can think of... is a muslim does it?
What should matter is that they broke our laws and ideals and should be punished accordingly, am I right?

I think you're right, but I'm not sure I understand you completely.

I'm also not sure I answered your question. If not, feel free to ask again. I'm curious to hear your reaction to the video.

With respect,
Charles1952

reply to post by wildtimes


I don't follow any religion, but if I had to pick one religion that I feel is the most hateful, degrading, evil and the least tolerant of all the religions, it would be hands down...Islam. Anyone who believes their God justifies killing his own creation, is not a God the majority of people in the world would consider following.

I find it completely ignorant and just plain sick when they justify honor killings, stoning, beheadings, maiming and treating their women like garbage. It boggles my mind that Islamic women would want to live under such conditions. Look at another man the wrong way you're stoned to death. Talk about waking up already, it time to move into the 21st century.

To believe that their God runs a whore house for martyrs is really comical. You're awarded with 21 virgins?

reply to post by RAY1990


I have brought up the UDHR in previous threads....
I think it holds "Universally" - and it seems self-evident to me -----
but some people (and members) think it is a 'relativistic decree' that does not apply to "EVERYONE really."

Confusing.

I've been studying this stuff for decades now - even more so over the last 2.5 years - and I'm FURTHER from knowing what is "really real" than EVER!
gha

reply to post by WeRpeons


As far as I know, it's 72 virgins, all doe-eyed and willing.

But...
BUT,
I don't really know. That is what I'm trying to find out.

Some excerpts from the film I just mentioned.

reply to post by LastStarfighter

Do you think all white protestants like you are all good as well?

Erm, I don't think charles is a "protestant".
But, I may be mistaken.

Just as I may be mistaken about Muslims, Jews, Catholics, and others.
At this point, I find ALL of the Abrahamic religions to be suspect.
ALL of their "books" to be suspect as well.

The reason I am here is to try to discern what is Real, and what is False, and WHO are Genuine, and WHO are Frauds.

Please don't attack me for having those doubts, and asking these questions.
My goal - my ONLY GOAL - is world peace.

reply to post by babloyi

I feel quite irritated with myself for having opened the video in the OP and having sat through even 5 minutes of it.

Babloyi!
Really?

Not even five minutes?
Are you not willing to engage in full research?


That worries me. And, I like you, and have appreciated your assistance here as I try to make sense of this mess.
Just, please, keep your mind OPEN until all info is in
(which I doubt it will ever be....
in which case,
we can just agree to disagree. Cool?)

Take care, friend.

DAMMIT! Maybe I should NOT have posted this one.
My bad.

reply to post by wildtimes

Dear wildtimes,

You've got me thinking. (About time, isn't it?)

Nobody seems to want to contradict the points in the video. Granted, we don't have the world's foremost scholars here, but it's interesting to me all the same.

But assuming for a minute that the videos won't be contradicted, let's go to the larger issue which you've pointed out. (If I'm derailing the thread, just ignore this.) How do we get peace?

Excuse me for being obvious, but the parties have to want peace. I'm assuming that there are some that don't. If, and I emphasize "if," those reluctant are Muslims, what can we do? I don't think pressure from the outside will work, both our experience and the videos indicate sanctions, policy changes, etc. won't do it.

What will? I think pressure from the inside might have a slight chance. Leaders of Islamic governments and the religious system would have to say "Stop! What are you guys, crazy? Give this up!" I know, a chance in a million, but it is a chance.

If that doesn't work, then the "Peace Table" will have to exclude any of those not wishing for peace. Representatives of those groups would have to be weakened and kept from interfering. A joint Western - Islamic effort would be ideal, but I think again, we're looking at a slim chance.

My biggest fear in all this, is that peace can't be found. If Islam keeps spreading and attacking, there is the chance that some day the West will say "That's enough," and millions will die. If the West gets angry, or frightened, enough to do that, I suspect the majority of casualties will be Muslim and the remainder will never rest until they attain Paradise.

My personal goal in all this is to prevent the time when my children and grandchildren will be told to accept dhimmitude or die.

With respect,
charles1952

reply to post by wildtimes


No, wildtimes, I'm glad you opened this thread.

I bet you are learning much more than you bargained for here.

reply to post by charles1952

My biggest fear in all this, is that peace can't be found. If Islam keeps spreading and attacking, there is the chance that some day the West will say "That's enough," and millions will die. If the West gets angry, or frightened, enough to do that, I suspect the majority of casualties will be Muslim and the remainder will never rest until they attain Paradise.

My personal goal in all this is to prevent the time when my children and grandchildren will be told to accept dhimmitude or die.

As is my personal gain in all this, charles.

What do you think about a thread titled:

"Real" Christians + "Real" Muslims + "Real" Jews = ?????????

(My thinking is that the possible answers (multiple choice, one right answer) include:
PEACE (yay!)
WAR (boo!)
HITLER (uh, no. Not even thinkable)

MY CHOICE?????

PEACE, PLEASE!!!
Just, "ALL OF YOU!!
STOP IT!!!"

(Mommy/boss sort of voice)...I'm just SO WEARY of all this.
SO very weary.

I almost am about to not care anymore. And that bothers me.