Islam: What the West Needs to Know (full documentary)

After watching this entire video...

All I can say is...

I have questions...



S&F

reply to post by charles1952

Nobody seems to want to contradict the points in the video. Granted, we don't have the world's foremost scholars here, but it's interesting to me all the same.

I see that you are concerned about nobody refuting the points in the video and very indirectly suggesting a possibility that its because they are true. I can assure you they are not true.

Are you following the thread? Did you watch the video i posted about an "expert" shoebat? and other posts about the other "experts" in the video?

I want you to bring up any point in the video that bothers you and i'l try to give you an acceptable or i should rather say reasonable answer because you may not accept it.

Let me answer a point that you have brought up. "Dhimmi" status and Jizya.

Dhimmi means someone with whom there is some kind of contract. Here a contract of protection between the state and a person.
A muslim/muslim State is obliged by religion to protect muslims and their property. Muslims in a muslim State are also obliged to pay zakat and join the muslim army which non-muslims are not obliged to do, so they pay a protection tax (jizya) and are exempted from joining the army, if they serve then no jizya. Jizya is taken only from adult men.

The verse in the Qur'an that was quoted in the video was 9:29. Let me post it in context for you.

[9:29] Those who do not believe in Allah and the Last Day - even though they were given the scriptures, and who do not hold as unlawful that which Allah and His Messenger have declared to be unlawful, and who do not follow the true religion - fight against them until they pay tribute out of their hand and are utterly subdued.
[9:30] The Jews say: "Ezra ('Uzayr) is Allah's son," and the Christians say: "The Messiah is the son of Allah." These are merely verbal assertions in imitation of the sayings of those unbelievers who preceded them. May Allah ruin them. How do they turn away from the Truth?
[9:31] They take their rabbis and their monks for their lords apart from Allah, and also the Messiah, son of Mary, whereas they were commanded to worship none but the One True God. There is no god but He. Exalted be He above those whom they associate with Him in His Divinity.
[9:32] They seek to extinguish the light of Allah by blowing through their mouths; but Allah refuses everything except that He will perfect His light howsoever the unbelievers might abhor it.

In the above verses Qur'an is not talking about making all Christians and Jews feel subdued, rather only the ones who refuse to coexist peacefully and continue to work against Islam by spreading lies and aiding enemies of the State.
Interestingly the experts in the OP video fits perfectly in that category!

Originally posted by Akragon
After watching this entire video...

All I can say is...

I have questions...

S&F

Hey Akragon!

SHOOT!!

I mean the questions, one at a time!

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000
I don't have time to sit through an hour and a half of propaganda. I go straight to the source and read the Quran.

thats what i have been trying to say, but i would suggest reading an exegesis too, written by scholars to get the background of the verses and to understand things in context.
A Site that I refer to for detailed explanation of Qur'an

So basically. Islam is a thread for us, free western civilization. right ?

Well...

When or once you get our governments persuaded to eradicate our mutual future problem.
I expect to see the bombing and genocide of these people in the news...

I'll stock some popcorn.

If you don't succeed in getting this message to the people that matter...
You can always volunteer and become Muslim. That way, you are save when the day comes.

Seriously !

No matter what you think of Islam or its way of life, when they become a majority, you need to adapt.
Just like we have expected from all minorities ever, we ruled with our beloved democracy.

I fear all those individuals that put their religious beliefs at the forefront of their persona. Be them muslim, christian or jew...or whatever.

Originally posted by Bilk22
reply to post by logical7

 

I have to agree that there are many reasons to paint muslims as radical and perpetuate this global terrorism theme, but the biggest reason is MONEY as you say, but the real MONEY is in defense spending by our respective governments. The people in the military industrial complex are just as bad as the banksters.

i agree completely, war is profitable, very profitable.

Money motivates people to do all kind of disgusting things.
Like the experts in the OP video who constantly demand donations on their websites from people they have scared and they get it. Then they pay themselves fat salaries and continue to spread fear and hatred!

A simple way to find the truth is "follow the money" and don't believe anyone who wants to just make money by telling the "TRUTH" it would not be the truth.

reply to post by xXxinfidelxXx

Erm, well spoken (if a little hard to read )
but -
I do hope you realize you are "preaching to the choir director" here.

This is what I've been maintaining all along.
The West needs to stop imposing violence and control on the Middle East and all Muslim peoples. I DO blame the government(s) for bombing, targeting, killing, invading, etc.

I UNDERSTAND that interference is making things WORSE - not better. I UNDERSTAND that it's largely about resources (stupid), and whether they want to call in "pre-emptive" (hit-first, and hard/ "Shock and Awe" - SICK) or "reactive" (paybacks and retliation) BIGGER BOMBS and MORE SOLDIERS and devastating whole regions to "weaken" the "enemy" is COUNTERPRODUCTIVE.

I want PEACE. I get, very clearly, every point you've made - and I've made the very same points myself, repeatedly.

Thanks for reinforcing them (even if you thought you were 'lecturing' me - that's fine. Others will benefit from hearing it from more than one of us.)

I am certainly not "complicit" - I'm doing what I can (not much) to make waves and rock the boat - because if we don't, it WILL sink.

Keep up the good fight - (which is NO FIGHTS).

reply to post by curiousme333

our government slowly stripping away the rights of hard working Americans who just want to be left the F alone so they can enjoy life and raise their families. Good luck to all trying to figure this mess out.

Yes, and what our government is doing to the countries in the Middle-East is even WORSE.

That is the biggest part of the problem, I think.

For all the people saying, "Go to the source, read the Quran" - well that's all fine and good - but we don't have the luxury of expecting everyone to stop and read it - and get the "peace" message that is purportedly in it.

I don't doubt it's there - in the video they do a whole section on the sequence of events, and the "sequence" of the Quran's recording of those events - it is NOT in chronological order - just like the Bible is not. Therefore, they are both suspect.

The problem, as I see it, is that people CHOOSE which passages to "take to heart" and which to ignore - on both sides. And as long as ANYONE is doing that, it doesn't matter if they've read and memorized it, or if they're illiterate and just listening to clerics or clergy. SOMEONE is inciting violence, and OTHERS are engaging in it.

Do you see? It doesn't MATTER what "the source" actually says as long as there are brutal, suicidal/homicidal killers and war-mongers on either side. So, in my humble and flimsy opinion,

just "reading the Quran" is NOT going to do anything to help the problem - it's hard to focus on reading when you're worried about being hurt at any moment.

Is that so hard to understand? As long as people are frightened, uncertain, weary, and emotionally beat up - they are more susceptible to ANY SOLUTION being offered. It's a classic technique, and we should all know that by now.

Divide and conquer. Cause chaos, let it go on long enough and then come in and offer a "solution" - everyone is so exhausted from all the chaos they will eventually say, "whatever. Just make it stop, and do it now."

THAT is what I think is happening.
It could be drawn out forever (as HAS BEEN dragged on and on for decades now) - and the only thing I see being done that is productive is the idea of BUTTING OUT. We all just want to be left alone.

Who is preventing that? Who is deciding to "bother" others? They are the problem. Whether it's a pissed off Muslim with an axe to grind (and I don't blame them, really) deciding to blow up some marathon fans - or a Special Ops team being sent over secretly to start picking off "persons of interest" with NO congressional oversight (which is happening) doesn't really matter. BOTH sides are guilty -

and it's hard not to feel that it's all being orchestrated by "TPTB" - it actually makes the most sense.
Those war-mongers and power-driven people don't CARE about the common people. THEY don't see others as humans with basic rights and dignity - or they DO - far too well - and this is all a grand strategy to get the commoners to slaughter one another. It's sick. It's psychopathic, maniacal behavior.

Humanity is very, very sick. We're not prepared for "global" anything - and I don't know that we'll ever be.

OUT OF SIGHT...... OUT OF MIND.

Ponder that saying while I watch this Video.

Think about it..... if we didn't see any 'Muslims' then they would be out of our mind. After a while we would forget that they even existed or at least the Religion would never have existed.

Its the same for anything.... OUT OF SIGHT.... OUT OF MIND.

Now, i shall sit and watch the video in the OP.

Ok, I just watched the first minute and already I have a question:

If there are so little amount of these 'Muslims' that want to take over the World, why and how has it been going on for over one thousand years? Surely, the few would have been killed off long ago.

Correct me if I'm wrong but I think these words:

Quran
Muslim
Allah
Mohammed

Are all Brainwashing Words??

reply to post by mindlessbrainpower89

Thank you. Yes, I'm aware of all the basic "sect" information already - it is well-wired in - but I'm sure others will benefit from your contribution.

Oddly, most of the Muslim participants that come to ATS do not disclose which "sect" they claim - or they say they don't affiliate with ANY of them. I have been aware of Ba'hai for a few years now, and have visited their temple in Chicago - I've read their history, and their "approach", and it seems VERY peaceful to me.

The fact that Ba'hai is considered "heresy" and Muslims are slaughtering THEM, TOO, is what really frightens me.

The Muslims fight among themselves - maiming and slaughtering each other - rather than standing as a unified body of peace-loving, benevolent people minding their own business. They don't - they never have.

And the West has no business "butting in" trying to "force" them to "stop infighting" - even if every Western element withdrew this morning - all the embassies, all the troops, all the "peacekeepers", all the business people, all the doctors and nurses - EVERYTHING WESTERN being withdrawn completely - they would STILL be slaughtering each other.

They have been infighting since the beginning.

For me personally, the Sufi mystics and Ba'hai are the more favorable -

If Islam had a "unified" code of conduct, it might be different. But they don't. They are too loosely structured, with no clear leadership - so it's a "wildfire" out of control.

IMO.
Add to that secret operations hunting people down based on suspicion only, and you have

WORLD WAR THREE.

reply to post by wildtimes


I hate to sound negative and all, but we are all complicit so long as this violence continues to be done in our name. I know it sucks to not really be able to do anything about it as a minority in a supposedly democratic system but yeah...should put some fire under our asses to spread the word a lil more intently maybe. Believe me when I say that all that keeps me from going crazy when it comes to things like this is I detach myself emotionally from most things these days..which is how I can get down to the nitty gritty with some level of ease..not to toot my own horn or anything...but yeah...The truth is neither positive nor is it negative. The truth is merely what it is. I am not gonna say that I'm entirely emotionally detached. Hearing people go on and on about how much they hate people they've never met for insane reasons does get my blood boiling, but that's just people for ya. People tick me off. Facts are what keeps me going.

reply to post by sirjunlegun

It blows my mind how you can propose Islam and yet have one of the most sexually opened and sensual avatars on Ats. It is hot I must admit. I was turned on. I lusted after you. But I forgive you, woman. In Christianity you can grant that. Not there. Wild horses///// God bless you!!!

I am OPPOSED to Islam. Did you read the vid or the OP text even?

The documentary is a warning, and NOT happy-happy-dance-dance Islam is coming.

Thanks for the approval of my avatar though - I like it, too - and to be honest, I've wondered what the Muslim members "think of me" using it. I had one Catholic guy accuse me (when using another avy with a girl in a full blouse, bloomers, and a corset - TOTALLY covered up except face and hands) of "being in my underwear" as a way to "attack me" (ad-hominem nonsense much?)


My avy does represent me - my attitude, at least...and my general shape/appearance. Close enough, anyway.
And that's deliberate. Hopefully people will read my WORDS to see that there's a LOT going on in my head, despite what an avy "might appear to project."

I hate the way women are "blamed" - no matter how subtle the subjugation is. Spirituality is NOT about sensuality - and neither should be religion about sexuality or sensuality.

Originally posted by logical7

Originally posted by Akragon
After watching this entire video...

All I can say is...

I have questions...

S&F

Hey Akragon!

SHOOT!!

I mean the questions, one at a time!

I suppose we should start with the last page...

Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by babloyi

 

I don't see anything in this video that says otherwise...

It basically says islam is evil...

I just learned that Mohammad told his people to lie in order to kill one of his opponents...

Is it true?

reply to post by TruthxIsxInxThexMist


There are branches within all religions.

reply to post by babloyi

You are asking for source links to the the Luton youtube documentary? Just go to youtube and search for Stacey Dooley Luton or something. It really isn't hard to find. Or are you asking for source links showing Walid Shoebat to be a sham? Because I already provided all of those.

No. I am not asking for "discrediting Luton" or "discrediting Shoebat" -
I'm asking for an in-depth presentation of the "peaceful Islam" that you say is predominant.

LOTS of people say "Islam is a religion of peace" . Just as many say "Islam scares me." Likewise, equal numbers feel Islam is - based on behavioral EVIDENCE - is a malicious thing.

WHO IS RIGHT?
I want sources that are thorough, compelling, well-documented and professionally-presented explanations of ISLAM AS PEACEFUL. A counterpoint to the video you haven't even watched (out of knee-jerk 'disgust'?)
And I'm not seeing any being given. Calling one guy a liar or brushing off murder as "nah, just a nutjob extremist. nothing to see here, move along" - is NOT what I'm looking for.

Do you understand? Where are the "peaceful Muslim" representatives on the world stage? Or is it just "okay" for the extremists and haters to have all the attention? I don't think so, because that only makes things worse. I am willing to blame the media for 'sensationalizing' and 'exaggerating' and 'selective journalism', if they are the problem. I look at Muslim news outlets as well - even amongst themselves they point fingers and cry "Wrong! Infidel!" at each other.

I really don't think you can accurately address the OP without watching the whole video.
It does have facts, historical timelines, biographical information...there are 6 parts. ALL need to be reviewed. You can't just go to "First Day of Classes" and expect to really learn a subject in school. Same with religion. You read the book. You liked it. Fine. That doesn't make you an expert on the finer nuances, history, evolution, background and inception of the book.

I'm not trying to discredit YOU, babloyi, I just wonder how many "peaceful Muslims" are paying attention to how Islam is seen from the outside looking in (not good, not safe, not peaceful). It's not for lack of looking either - I spend hours a day looking at EVERYTHING I can find - online and off - so please don't accuse me of "unbalanced hating" or harboring "unwarranted 'phobia' " or being a "fool." That's not fair.

Originally posted by FreedomEntered
reply to post by TruthxIsxInxThexMist

 

There are branches within all religions.

Not as much as this one.

I have watched 25 mins of the Documentary but I'm bored!

The reason being, i have read threads on ATS where all of what is revealed in the Documentary has already been told in those Threads!

I have watched enough and don't want my mind to be Brainwashed (by way of those words I posted above)

reply to post by logical7


logical, you might want to address the points made in the "history/timeline" section - which talks about how Muhammed, after becoming "important" in Medina, did an about-face and left behind the "peaceful, loving, tolerant" attitude - and instead became an Imperial Conqueror.

You can't deny that he DID slaughter many, many people - which was the reported reason for 'the Crusades' - which everyone loves to use to denigrate Christianity.

Also, the point that the Qu'ran states that the most recent 'revelations' NEGATE any earlier ones - as Muhammed "changed his mind" - so did the Qu'ran. And the documentary asserts that the book is not put together IN SEQUENCE.

Therefore, it can be (and is) cherry-picked every bit as much as the Bible.

A text that is too difficult for "regular people" - literate, educated people - to CLEARLY understand is suspect.
Especially when that text is dealing with Life and Death, absolute Right and absolute Wrong.

Also, please address the apparent LACK of "positive" documentaries. We all would love to be able to "calm down."
We need information - not just "your opinion" or "your understanding" after reading the Qu'ran -
there are just too many violent Muslims to make that credible just on "your word" as a peaceful Muslim. I don't doubt that you are - but you MUST be willing to address the huge problem of all of those "not real" Muslims, and take action to correct them.

Just saying, "nah, they're just nutjob crazies" doesn't help.

reply to post by logical7


They aren't "demanding donations", logical7. That's what churches and Islam do - with "alms" and "zakats" - so you can't pretend that the only ones "earning money" are the people WORKING, by writing or presenting to audiences or being in films, for what they earn. You must ALSO address their POINTS - with valid, strong counter-points.

Otherwise; that boat won't float. So you are "bashing" people just as much as the speakers in the vid are "bashing people". Difference is, they are pretty convincing. You are just saying "they're lying." Why should we believe you and not them?

Try again.

So why are you so consumed with identifying whether Islam is of love or hate? Were you accosted by a Muslim or something?

You can find hate and intolerance in all 3 faiths of Abraham. I guess I don't understand why the focus on Islam. Was it simply from the video you posted?

Something to consider:

Romans 13:4 - For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to [execute] wrath upon him that doeth evil.

Matthew 10:34 - Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.