Islam: What the West Needs to Know (full documentary)

reply to post by sk0rpi0n


You are beating around the bush. Answer the points of the documentary. Provide us with one of these "lots of documentaries" that speak about Islam's history and current status in a positive way - give us some hope that Muslims can reach peace with others. Not individuals - Muslims as a whole!

I think it's pretty clear that Muslims in America are not in danger - no, they are protected, and have rights. THE SAME RIGHTS as everyone else. If one of them goes nut and starts killing people - they are held accountable.

We have a sizable enclave of Sudanese refugees right here in my city - all gracious people, kind and easy to get along with. We have Muslim business people, all getting along fine when they come here to do business in global companies, working alongside Hindus, Christians, non-religious people, whites, blacks, Asians....

How horrible, right? What a terrible lot of haters we are. :shk:

reply to post by wildtimes

WHY IS IT, do you think, that people don't "like Muslims" in so many parts of the world?

Because of media like the video you posted in the OP.

I bet Jews wouldn't be liked too if the media constantly portrayed them negatively. Same goes for any other group... whether based on religion, race or sexual orientation.

reply to post by wildtimes

I'm all for standing for what you believe is "right" - but you have to address that Muhammed did just that - swept in with armies, killed and tortured people, ruined their cities. Do you deny that? Or justify it? I DON'T.

you believe a "version" of history from the Christian side because you were born there. Try reading history from both sides and then you will be eligible to make an intellectual opinion.
It would be like you reading jewish history of Jesus pbuh and believing him to be a power hungry liar and imposter who wanted to be the KING!

reply to post by wildtimes


Starred and flagged! I've been following this thread since you first posted it! I watched both vids, and I just don't know what to say. It certainly sends shivers down my spine.

I've spent years defending American Muslims, ever since 911, believing them to be mostly honorable scapegoats. I still believe that, but now my overall support for Islam in general is wavering.

I'm mostly "speechless" and "tongue tied" as far as being able to contribute info, or question contributing Muslim members. But I am learning a lot just reading here. Thanks for the thread! I hope it helps bring understanding to us all.

PS: I want world peace too!

reply to post by Rosinitiate

You can find hate and intolerance in all 3 faiths of Abraham. I guess I don't understand why the focus on Islam. Was it simply from the video you posted?

I'm educating myself on ALL major world religions. I've exhausted Christianity. I've covered Buddhism. I know some about Jews, but not enough yet to feel honestly "knowledgeable" about it.

I've studied Islam via the web, and texts by scholars and researchers - I am now addressing "regular" Muslims to find out more on a personal basis what the ATS Muslims think.

Next I'll move on to Hindu, I think.

WHY focus on Islam? Because World War Three is breaking out IN MUSLIM ZONES, and I'd like my children and their children to be SAFE from the rampant destruction and savagery I see going on in the Middle East and Africa.
That's why.

reply to post by wildtimes

You are beating around the bush.

No. I am discussing this on YOUR terms... its only fair that you do the same.

If Muslims killing Muslims means Muslims are inherently violent.... then examples of Christian / Europeans killing their own kind in WW1 and 2....should also lead to the same conclusion. i.e - That Christians / Europeans are inherently violent.

Provide us with one of these "lots of documentaries" that speak about Islam's history and current status in a positive way -

Simply google whatever issue you have in mind and click on the links from Muslim sources... NOT anti-Muslim sources like those "experts" in that video.

Surely, you wouldn't recommend forming an opinion on Jews by reading Nazi literature would you?
Or for that matter, an opinion on homosexuality by reading Westboro literature.

reply to post by wildtimes

I've studied Islam via the web, and texts by scholars and researchers

Reading the opinions of people who clearly have an opinion against Islam... doesn't exactly count as a study.

You want to learn evolution, you pick up a book ON evolution.... not a book on creationism. Also you won't really learn anything if you already believe evolution is false.

reply to post by wildtimes

WHY focus on Islam? Because World War Three is breaking out IN MUSLIM ZONES, and I'd like my children and their children to be SAFE from the rampant destruction and savagery I see going on in the Middle East and Africa.

Someone from the west talking about "destruction and savagery" involving Muslims..... is akin to someone dressed like the woman in your avatar giving a lecture on the importance of modest dressing. In both cases, there is the pungent stench of hypocrisy.

reply to post by sk0rpi0n


I don't like any organised religion essentially i consider them to be nothing more than control constructs designed to keep in place the powers that be.

That being said religious Islamic fundamentalism seems to be rearing its head rather often these days especially in the U.K!

And please don't tell me its all just media spin. I live next to thousands of them the things they get upto are deplorable!

To give you some kind of idea what I mean ile share this with you. The day that poor solder got his head cut off rather a lot of the Muslim refugees that roam the streets where I live 24-7, in packs 20-30 strong, seemed to be chanting and screaming a lot louder than normal. Wondering what was going on i asked one of my Muslim neighbours(Nice dude would give you the shirt off his back), what's that lot all up in arms about now? His reply was there praising and cheering for the two people who cut of the soilders head!

That's in Govanhill, Glasgow. Make of that what you will!

Double post, my bad!

reply to post by logical7


Dude, no. You can keep claiming that "we who were born in the West are too naive to understand things" until you're old and grey, but you'll be wrong every time.

I've been to university - I was taught HOW TO LEARN - I look at sources in English from all over the world. We have EVERY religion here in America - it is NOT a "Christian nation" - you need to get past that stupid refutation. I'm as capable as any living person to read and to engage in honest, unbiased research and WORLD HISTORY.

I've been friends and co-workers with people from India, England, Scotland, Canada, Norway, Italy, Finland, Germany, Pakistan, Russia, Egypt, Nigeria, Ethiopia, China, Mexico, Guatemala, Honduras, Argentina, Brazil, Puerto Rico, Cuba, Australia, New Zealand, the Philippines, and others - Would you like their names? Want to call them and ask if they know me, and if I'm an ignorant drip?

I've learned WORLD HISTORY and WORLD CULTURES. YOU are the one isolated and without a balanced view.
YOU are the one with limited exposure and knowledge of the world, logical.

reply to post by sk0rpi0n


LOL!!!!
Ad hominem.
You don't have a "documentary" to show us that disputes the one in the OP - so you're going to attack my avatar?
Yeah, I'm a half-naked nitwit without a clue - just like "all Western women" - but then again, ALL women are nitwits incapable of having opinions, undeserving of educations, freedom, respect, or autonomy.

Major facepalm.

Good God, you guys are amazing. If you can't answer the questions, just say so.
If you just won't then say so! Stop wasting the time of those who want to learn something here!

I'm confident I've presented evidence of my own integrity and credibility, experience and knowledge, education and worldliness. Also, that I don't think I'm a know-it-all.

reply to post by sk0rpi0n


THAT ENDED 60 YEARS AGO, and THAT is what resulted in NATO, the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, and PEACE across Europe.

Muslims are behaving like savages NOW! Every day!
Suck it up and explain it!

reply to post by wildtimes

so you're going to attack my avatar?

I'm not attacking your avatar.
Just using it as an example... to make a point about the hypocrisy in your statements.

You don't have a "documentary" to show us that disputes the one in the OP

I haven't watched the documentary you posted... but I've read the synopsis of it.

Whatever issue has been presented by the videos makers.... you can be sure there exists a Muslim take on the same. You need to be sure what you want to discuss, and google Islamic sources on it.

reply to post by sk0rpi0n


Yeah, I wanted to learn about the Abrahamic religions - so I picked up a BOOK ON THE ABRAHAMIC RELIGIONS - by Karen Armstrong. I read it carefully. I read much of it again. I use it as a reference.

You can read it, too! Here, it's free on the web:
A History of God: The 4,000 year quest of Judaism, Islam, and Christianity

It's thick, though, and has big words in it. There is an index though, and dictionaries are easy to come by for hard words like "hegemony". But then, maybe you aren't quite ready for that sort of educated historical examination yet.

:shk:

reply to post by wildtimes


I have just watched Part 1 of this 'Muslim Brotherhood In America' . It is very Interesting. There are 9 parts which makes it extremely long so I won't post all 9 parts here but if you watch part 1 and are then interested to watch the rest, its upto you but I can see it going into much more detail!

Part 1:



By 'Frank Gaffney'. Assistant Secretary of Defense under Reagan. Now President Of The Senator Secure
Policy.

I did watch 25 mins of your video in the OP but it bored me....

reply to post by sk0rpi0n


Okay, that's a double-fault then. You not only DIDN'T watch the OP video, you ALSO have not produced a counter-point video to refute it! You are just ASSUMING that it's propaganda - and giving a knee-jerk, lazy, apologetic response insulting my intelligence and ability to discern crap from fact.

FACT: Muslims in the world are being violent among each other, in EVERY PLACE that they are - and also toward the British, and Americans. They are disturbing the peace. Deal with it. Watch the damned video, or bow out. You're not helping, and you're only making yourself look silly.

reply to post by wildtimes

THAT ENDED 60 YEARS AGO, and THAT is what resulted in NATO, the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, and PEACE across Europe.

60 years ago doesn't change the fact that European / Americans have a history of bloodshed.
Theres a reason why the Nazis are reviled to this day. The fact that their evil was carried out 60 years ago doesn't mean anybody would kiss and make up with the Nazis.

Oh, and NATO.... and peace across Europe? I guess it probably means NATO can freely shoot and bomb at Muslims OUTSIDE Europe... like Afghanistan, for example.

Muslims are behaving like savages NOW! Every day!

The west are savagely killing Muslims using hi-tech weapons.... NOW.. every day.... so the west is really in no position to accuse anybody of savage behavior.

Its not like Western bombs simply discharge glittering confetti while only bombs used by Muslim are lethal.

reply to post by logical7

You are the one who assume them as experts while none has any academic qualification in the subject.

Then SHOW ME A DOCUMENTARY by a qualified academic scholar that supports Islam and denies what they are saying! Not just sites that claim they are loons! I did that yesterday - I see how some of them are vilified - I looked at Spencer's site - and read about Pamela.

Now SHOW ME who is to be regarded as an HONEST academic!! I can: Karen Armstrong. But you still haven't read her book, have you!? No. You haven't. And I bet you won't, because it might be disillusioning for you in your "happy perfect Islam" worldview.

reply to post by wildtimes

Yeah, I wanted to learn about the Abrahamic religions - so I picked up a BOOK ON THE ABRAHAMIC RELIGIONS - by Karen Armstrong. I read it carefully. I read much of it again. I use it as a reference.

So in other words you read a book about books on the Abrahamic religions.
What about the Torah, Bible and the Koran... the original books on Abrahamic religions?