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Originally posted by Szticks
I am an Adoptee. Thank God I wasn't aborted I've had a really good life and wouldn't choose not to have lived it. Consider me against abortion, with a few exceptions. Those have been mentioned.
One thing I keep reading time and again is "If you don't like abortion just don't do it, and let others do as they please!" This argument holds no water whatsoever to me. It's like saying "If you don't agree with killing people, don't do it but let me go on with it!"
You have to try and understand anothers point of view before you really can discuss something in my opinion. Someone who is against abortion usually believes that life starts at conception. This stand point means that an aborted fetus is actually killed. People who are pro abortion do not consider the fetus to be a living person. Hence the opinion here is an abortion is not murder.
The only way to get a completely objective view on abortion and it's legislation is by determining when life begins. And this would most likely not happen because the opinions differs so much. This is a never ending discussion.
There is one thing that I have a really hard tim understanding though. I can't see how someone can be pro-life and pro-capital punishment. For me, taking a life is taking a life period. Two wrongs don't make a right etc etc. That is perhaps a completely other discussion though.
Originally posted by Szticks
I am an Adoptee. Thank God I wasn't aborted I've had a really good life and wouldn't choose not to have lived it. Consider me against abortion, with a few exceptions. Those have been mentioned.
One thing I keep reading time and again is "If you don't like abortion just don't do it, and let others do as they please!" This argument holds no water whatsoever to me. It's like saying "If you don't agree with killing people, don't do it but let me go on with it!"
Originally posted by Szticks
You have to try and understand anothers point of view before you really can discuss something in my opinion. Someone who is against abortion usually believes that life starts at conception. This stand point means that an aborted fetus is actually killed. People who are pro abortion do not consider the fetus to be a living person. Hence the opinion here is an abortion is not murder.
The only way to get a completely objective view on abortion and it's legislation is by determining when life begins. And this would most likely not happen because the opinions differs so much. This is a never ending discussion.
Originally posted by IBM
How do you do sir (or mrs?). I am glad everything worked out fine for you. What I would like to ask the Choicers is would the world be any different if you were not around, ie aborted. Take a look around, imagine if you(the Pro-Choice people) were not there. You are denying a baby the right to life, and that is very selfish and irresponsible. I believe the life starts at birth is really just an excuse for irresponsiblility.
Originally posted by deaf fences hit
and talk about it being legalised murder, what about smoking, it's pretty much a legalised form of suicide (over a long period of time), yet its ok, so why not b1tch about that? its a womans body, her choice and business, just cause a guy sticks something in her doesnt overwrite that choice at all, ever. dfh out.
Originally posted by LostSailor
Originally posted by deaf fences hit
and talk about it being legalised murder, what about smoking, it's pretty much a legalised form of suicide (over a long period of time), yet its ok, so why not b1tch about that? its a womans body, her choice and business, just cause a guy sticks something in her doesnt overwrite that choice at all, ever. dfh out.
I smoke, but at least I'm alive to make that decision in the first place, ever think of that? I know smoking is killing me but I'm not smoking to kill myself. Therefore that doesn't quite count a suicide. Face the facts, all points are pointing, to abortion being murder!!!
[edit on 9-11-2004 by LostSailor]
Originally posted by IBM
What I would like to ask the Choicers is would the world be any different if you were not around, ie aborted. Take a look around, imagine if you(the Pro-Choice people) were not there. You are denying a baby the right to life, and that is very selfish and irresponsible. I believe the life starts at birth is really just an excuse for irresponsiblility.
Originally posted by riley
Originally posted by IBM
What I would like to ask the Choicers is would the world be any different if you were not around, ie aborted. Take a look around, imagine if you(the Pro-Choice people) were not there. You are denying a baby the right to life, and that is very selfish and irresponsible. I believe the life starts at birth is really just an excuse for irresponsiblility.
I personally never said life starts at birth and I don't think anyone else did either.. I don't argue that but I do believe the adult person the featus is dependant on is the only one who can assertain whether or not they are ready and able to provide for it. I also have an immence fear of rape just like any other woman.. if it ever happened to me [knock on wood] I hope I live in a society where I'll recieve some compassion and be able to terminate it so I can get on with the job of trying to heal from it.. emotionally and physically.. that would be nearly impossible to do feeling his 'seed' still inside me. I wouldn't need someone like you calling me a 'murderer' and selfish etc whilst I'm lieing in a hospital bed waiting for my bones to knit. Would you do that looking at my bruised and swollen face? Doesn't sound like someone who has mercy for human life. And the baby and gun you posted.. are you pretending to care about that actual baby? Is that a 'saved' baby? How do you know it's not getting abused right now? You'd be surprised what torcherous things some people will do to babies.. these are fully formed babies.. very different to something the size of a jelly bean. You don't mind them getting born into abusive enviroments? Do you care? Doesn't seem to be an issue at all. Are you personally willing to adopt it? Very doubtful. Seems once it's born it's conveniently not your problem anymore.. how about putting your money where your mouth is and setting up trust funds for these saved babies? How about giving mothers to be money provide for them instead of preaching? You're only interested in keeping it's heart beating till it's out of the mother. What then? Is the value of it's life somehow diminished after it's finnished gestating? Why aren't you as concerned with protecting new-borns and toddlers? There doesn't seem to be much continuity in the 'pro-life' view.
Originally posted by RedOctober90
Easy for you to say IBM when your don't put yourself in the shoes of that mother.
Things don't exactly work in the matters you suggest.
Originally posted by IBM
Originally posted by RedOctober90
Easy for you to say IBM when your don't put yourself in the shoes of that mother.
Things don't exactly work in the matters you suggest.
Well, she should not have become a mother in the first place if she was not capable of caring for the child. She should not have become pregnant.
Originally posted by RedOctober90
Originally posted by IBM
Originally posted by RedOctober90
Easy for you to say IBM when your don't put yourself in the shoes of that mother.
Things don't exactly work in the matters you suggest.
Well, she should not have become a mother in the first place if she was not capable of caring for the child. She should not have become pregnant.
Humans are human who make human mistakes...Humanity does not seem to run on these rules of logic you keep bringing up.
It's how things work.
Originally posted by RedOctober90
In politics I am a progressive.. I could care less about appeasing someones religious beliefs.
Originally posted by IBM
First of all rape is a very rare experience.
If you plan on getting an abortion I would call you irresponsible and incapable of making good decisions.
After all you got pregant in the first place knowing you will not be able to take care of it.
Why dont women like you put your money where your mouth is and and not get pregnant when you know you cannot affoord it.
Dont blame me for not providing your family support, blame yourself. If you know you cannot support your family then dont have one!!
Originally posted by mwm1331
Rley a couple of things I would like to adress.
1) where did you get the figure of one in four women have been raped? I have a lot of trouble beleveing that it just seems way to high.
One out of every six American women have been the victims of an attempted or completed rape in their lifetime (14.8% completed rape;2.8% attempted rape). A total of 17.7 million women have been victims of these crimes.[Prevalence, Incidence and Consequences of Violence Against Women Survey, National Institute of Justice and Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, 1998.]
2) In terms of contaception allthough I can not speak for other men I never had sex without a condom untill I was engaged to my wife. While I had a large number of sexual encounters it was always protected.
However regardless of wheter the man uses a condom r doesn't whether the woman uses a diaphragm or the pill or doesn't every single time you have sex you are accepting the liabillity for preganacies, and std's. Any time a man and a woman have sex they are both willingly entering a situation with potentially life altering consequences.
As such if the sex was consensual and a pregnancy results from it I believe both people should be legally required to birth, and raise the resulting child.
Abortion as many know was a major deciding factor in this election, which it should have been. It is legalized murder
Originally posted by riley
Originally posted by mwm1331
2) In terms of contaception allthough I can not speak for other men I never had sex without a condom untill I was engaged to my wife. While I had a large number of sexual encounters it was always protected.
Glad to hear some men are taking responsibilty.
However regardless of wheter the man uses a condom r doesn't whether the woman uses a diaphragm or the pill or doesn't every single time you have sex you are accepting the liabillity for preganacies, and std's. Any time a man and a woman have sex they are both willingly entering a situation with potentially life altering consequences.
I completely aggree.. and here lies another problem I see with society.. the media is obsessed with sexual gratification yet doesn't even make any link to the risks of sex. It also projects women as vaginas on life support which in turn has young blokes expecting more than is realistic but thats another complex issue altogether.
As such if the sex was consensual and a pregnancy results from it I believe both people should be legally required to birth, and raise the resulting child.
Originally posted by Mahree
All of the above quotes are certainly appropriate and add to this discussion. I am glad to see this kind of post instead of the constant hate rants on both sides of the question.
As far as the rape statistics I'm sure that many rapes are not reported for one reason or another. Probably the statistics come from the brutal rapes where a woman is also beaten plus the rape. How lucky the unbeaten ones were, huh. Hard to believe that some do believe that.