**Civil War Watch**

Great post emily! That goes along way towards explaining the foriegn ownership of the federal reserve system as well, few people understand the federal reserve system, but those in the know usually cash their checks in gold or real estate. Your twenty dollar bill isn't actually twenty dollars, it is a NOTE. A loan for twenty dollars that you as a tax payer pay interest on. The value of your twenty dollar bill is the same as the value as your five or your one, it is worth about as much as some high grade paper and special ink. They can't borrow against the dollar because of that, so they have sold us out in terms of the next best thing.

So, what do we do now? The Feds have sold us out; they USE their bureaucracies to keep us in subjection to their rules that merely blow us off and blow off our legitimate human needs.

I do data. I read data the way some people read the funny papers.---

USDA confounds their Food Tables with irrelevant and junk data, to drag down averages so commercial food looks acceptable from the numbers.

USGS downgrades quakes; takes a week to put up their data; and only shows partial data.

NASA messes with their photographs, colorwise; turns off the satellite when anything interesting comes up; withholds all information about contact with intersteller or interplanetary life.

FDA is run by the pharmaceuticals due to in-breeding with industry.

MEDICAL CARE has become a parody in which pharmaceuticals and band-aids are practically the only strategies in use for ordinary people anymore. And even then, a person has to sit and wait for hours and hours to even get that much.

PRISONS are now a growth industry; so are CONCENTRATION CAMPS.

I mean--where in the US Federal System do they care about people anymore? The election was rigged!!

We're trapped in this mess. No wonder people are trying to emigrate OUT now.

[edit on 10-11-2004 by Emily_Cragg]

Sadly I am afraid the answer is that most folks will do nothing. Recent history shows the rise of a regime is too often ignored by the populace. In Germany, even when the screams of their neighbors reached their fearful ears, even when the smell of burning flash from near by detention camps reached their noses, they did nothing. Many of them turned to nationalism, choosing to believe the propoganda poured into their collective mind, many of them migrated to other countries, but sadly most of them shut out the reality and waved their flags even as their children marched off to war. There are far too many correlations with what is happening here and now to what has happened so many times in the past. America was a great nation, founded on the most basic principles of liberty and freedom, but we were deceived into thinking that the soverignty of our nation rested in our democratic principles. The industrial revolution was the final blow to the American Idealology, and the last remaining power we had a people was given over to a wealthy few. Capitalism is a great system, if you have capital, otherwise feudalism is alive and well. I think step one to any real change in this country is control of the media. One thing the powers that be didn't count on, oddly enough, is the internet, in the history of man kind there has never been a total access to information, and ladies and gentlemen, I suggest we utilize that tool while it is still here to use. Yes they monitor it, yes it can be used to track and identify, but the laws they use to control us have yet to catch up to the internet, it may be last bastion of free speech we have left to us.

You and I are NOT doing nothing.

All the people at this Forum are doing something--communicating.

And that is what I believe we all need to continue to do--speak the truth, expose the truth, publicize the truth.

"Ye shall know the Truth, and the Truth shall make you free [again]."

Holy God! I cannot believe my eyes!

TWO ARMOURED TANKS APPEAR AT ANTI-WAR PROTEST IN LA

This is real, watch the video on this site(requires quicktime)

www.infowars.net...

LOS ANGELES, November 9, 2004 - At 7:50 PM two armored tanks showed up at an anti-war protest in front of the federal building in Westwood. The tanks circled the block twice, the second time parking themselves in the street and directly in front of the area where most of the protesters were gathered. Enraged, some of the people attempted to block the tanks, but police quickly cleared the street. The people continued to protest the presence of the tanks, but about ten minutes the tanks drove off. It is unclear as to why the tanks were deployed to this location.

Protests? Tanks? Anyone remember Tianaman Square? I am absolutely terrified for the American people. What are they going to do at a bigger protest!! It appears none of the government puppet channels have reported this, get this out to everyone you can. This is extremely serious!

[edit on 11-11-2004 by Indigo_Child]

We, The People Demand The Impeachment Of George W. Bush
By Ramsey Clark, 11-11-4

"Bush can run, but he cannot hide from the Constitution" "The
election does not pardon the President for past, or future "high
Crimes and Misdemeanors."

Impeachment is not a partisan political issue. The House of
Representatives, possessed of the "sole power of impeachment," is
required to consider a bill of impeachment on the facts even if every
Member were of the same party, or political persuasion, as the
President. The seven specific provisions of the Constitution setting
forth the powers and duties of the Congress in considering
impeachment intend that any President or other civil officer of the
United States who has committed a high Crime or Misdemeanor "...shall
be removed from Office."

The power of impeachment assures the people against criminal acts and
despotic ambitions by government officials.

We, the People have the power to require the House of Representatives
to do its duty and act on a bill of impeachment after full
investigation and consideration. If it fails to do so those House
members who failed to perform this Constitutional duty can and should
be voted from office. Remember that President Nixon resigned under
threat of impeachment for Watergate less than two years after his
landslide reelection in 1972.

Impeachment Is Imperative

For the American people who support and defend the Constitution of
the United States, who want to prevent further crimes by a lawless
administration, who believe we can redeem our country in the eyes of
those we have assaulted and those who have witnessed this brutality
and who dare to demand of future government leadership, NEVER AGAIN,
Impeachment is Imperative. A decent respect to the opinions of
mankind requires that we Americans should declare the causes which
impel us to impeach.

President George W. Bush chose to wage a war of aggression against
Iraq, which had not attacked the United States and presented no
imminent threat to our people, or legitimate interests. A small
cabal, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Rice, Wolfowitz, Feith, Libby and Rove
wrested decision making processes from established institutions of
government to reinforce President Bush,s desire to seize Iraq,
defying international institutions, the opinions of humankind and the
rule of law to commence a disastrous criminal military adventure.

A Campaign of Deceit And False Propaganda

War of aggression is the first offense listed in the Nuremberg
Charter as a Crime against Peace. The Nuremberg Tribunal after
hearing evidence of Nazi crimes in World War II convicted the leaders
of waging wars of aggression, which it called "the supreme
international crime."

At Nuremberg, the Chief U.S. Prosecutor, Robert H. Jackson, promised
posterity that in the future all nations, including our own, would be
held accountable for such crimes.

President Bush and key administration officials engaged in a lengthy
campaign of deceit, concealment and false propaganda to create
support for, and acceptance of, its war of aggression by claiming
Iraq possessed weapons of mass destruction, harbored terrorists, had
close ties with and supported Al Qaeda and intended to attack the
U.S., U.S. citizens and U.S. interests. A free society, democratic
institutions and constitutional government cannot survive such deceit
by its own government.

The U.S. has made civilians and civilian facilities its direct object
of attack. It has pursued assassination and summary executions as
official policy. President Bush boasted of summary executions in his
State of the Union message in 2003. Excessive and indiscriminate
force and illegal weapons have been used. Many thousands of Iraqi
citizens, whole families, women, children, elderly Iraqis have been
killed as a result.

U.S. military casualties exceed 10,000 including more than 1,100
deaths with many additional thousands returned to the United States
for physical and mental illnesses.

The U.S. has employed torture, including torture to death, rape and
sexual assault and humiliation, as approved and ordered policy from
Afghanistan and Guantanamo to Iraq, inflicted on thousands of
prisoners, many, if not most, without any evidence of wrongful
conduct. An admitted 37 human beings have been murdered while being
held in captivity by the United States under these conditions. We
know not how many more. All the mounting evidence makes clear that
this program of torture and death is not aberrational conduct of
rogue or undisciplined soldiers but is rather the policy adopted at
the highest levels of the Bush/Rumsfeld chain of command. All this in
violation of the Geneva Conventions, the International Convention
Against Torture, the laws of all nations and common human decency.

Article II, Section 4 of the Constitution of the United States
provides: The President, Vice President and all civil Officers of the
United States, Shall Be Removed From Office on Impeachment for, and
Conviction of, Treason, Bribery, or other high Crimes and
Misdemeanors.

More Than 100,000 Dead Based On A Lie

We learn from the prominent medical journal Lancet of the report by
researchers at John Hopkins University, Columbia University and the
Al-Mustansiriya University in Baghdad that the U.S. war of aggression
against Iraq and military occupation has cost "at least" 100,000
Iraqi lives already must civilian, women and children. Already
President Bush has launched a massive aerial and ground assault on
Falluja which may kill thousands of defenseless civilians.

Haiti, where President Bush forced the elected President Jean
Bertrand Aristide from office, is in chaos with many thousands killed
by widespread daily violence committed by U.S. supported
paramilitaries against Aristide supporters.

Nearly 500,000 have voted to impeach. Help us increase that number
into millions the Congress cannot ignore.

Every American should choose whether to vote for impeachment entirely
on the facts, straight up, or down, without political, or partisan
fear, or favor. We owe this to the country, its future, the
Constitution and our common heritage. Impeachment is Required Now.

Impeachment now is the only way we, the American people, can promise
ourselves and the world that we will not tolerate crimes against
peace and humanity by our government. Knowing what we know, to wait
longer is to condone what has been done and risk more.

Sincerely, Ramsey Clark
bellaciao.org...
votetoimpeach.org...

New flags after the civil war (if it happens).. the 25 stars represent America divided.

THERE WILL NOT BE A CIVIL WAR.

If there IS a civil war, thousands or millions of American people will die, and the 'red' states will win, since the government will side with them and they have a military. Remember? So don't even bother.

And I think that the inclusion of Bush's picture on your 'post-war' flag for the red states shows that you have a completely incorrect perception of conservatives and their opinions on Mr. Bush.

Absolutely, if the US comes apart, the ReTHUGlican and Democrap Parties will come apart with it because they they refused to see slavery creep up on us; influence-peddling, war-mongering and irrational financing of our nation.

With the breakup of the Union into four quadrants, each political entity will have to develop its own new democratic, republican or "other" means of governing itself.

millions thats great, at least we will die a free people

Originally posted by Odd
If there IS a civil war, thousands or millions of American people will die, and the 'red' states will win, since the government will side with them and they have a military. Remember? So don't even bother.

It's not about red states versus blue, it's about the way people are feeling about their government and how the government is percieved to feel about them.

For example....
People feeling like they get screwed constantly. Taxes that seem to benefit the rich. Not being able to trust those in positions of authority. Leaders propagating war at the cost of Fathers, Brothers, Sons, and in some cases Mothers, Sisters, Daughters. Troops having to do battle with insufficient equipment. Just the thought of 9/11. The 'Wag the Dog' philosophy. People feeling like they can't trust their own government. No longer believing in the vote.
*Secrecy. Deception. And there are many more.

And as far as the "they have the military" mentality.....Thankfully, the majority of those who serve have minds of their own and consciences. We are talking about the same men and women who serve to protect our freedoms and the rights afforded to us as American citizens. Military Personnel who want to defend their country. Country as in their families, their friends, their neighbors and their neighbor's neighbors. Of course they may have loyalties to their president, but you can bet when they picture in their minds what they are fighting for, it isn't George Bush they see. They see their life partners. They see the prescious little one who was born to them while they were at war. They see the sweet little old lady from down the street who bakes cookies for their kids. The homeless guy who holds a sign that says "Vet". They don't see Dick Cheney. Or any other politician for that matter. These are the soldiers who fight for our rights, our civil liberties and their's. It is counter intuative to think that when these freedoms are threatened the most, suddenly, these heros of ours will turn their backs on the things they've fought for for over 200 years. I would venture a guess that, when orderd to impison or kill American citizens, we would witness a militry revolt on a grand scale! It seems logical that when the fight for our rights is on their home turf, they would continue the battle for their freedom and the freedom of their families and friends. We just saw an example of soldiers in Iraq who refused to obey an order when they believed fellow soldiers would be in danger. If they can feel strongly enough about fellow soldiers, imagine how much more willing they will be to disobey orders for their friends and loved ones.

And let's remember that if Martial Law is invoked, it would probably be the National Guard that's called out to enforce it, not active duty, full time soldiers because many of them are in Iraq. And while I'm sure Guard Members have a loyalty to their President, many of them are simply in it for the extra paycheck - no disrespect intended. I suspect, if there was a Civil War, and they were called upon to defend their government against American citizens, many would call in sick. Well not sick but....I just can't see the majority of American troops answering a call to arms against there fellow citizens in an all out battle for their rights.

And then there are civil servants. I'm not positive they would be called in to help, but I don't think there are enough troops to go around so they may have to. I am not sure how non-military personnel would respond but I think at least some of them would also be unavailable for service. Hell, even some CIA agants have tried to get information out to the public and turned their backs on loyalty for the good of the people (or at least the White House thinks so), so why can't a cop?

And all this is only if we are talking an actual battle type scenario. There are other ways.


(*My War blog written by soldier in Iraq who tells the story day by day. Well he did until some of the media picked up on it and published stories about it. Apparently the "MIB" as he calls them swooped in and his commanding officer called him in. Now he posts no narratives of the war but does post other things. And you can read back through his blog still but I guess he did have to delete some info.)


[edit on 11/15/04 by HarmoniusOne]

New flags? Cool. The liberals will obviously take the one with the U.N., huh?

Election fraud? Yup, it was tried last election, but the DNC didn't get away with it.
Nation divided? You realize it is no more divided, that is just liberal media code for, "Darn, those stupid Christians and traditional conservatives are trying to retake the ground we took from them!"

People are always looking in the wrong direction.

indigo child -

here's the answer to the Tanks at the protest, right from the link to Alex's site.

From INDYMEDIA: I talked to one Marine with one of the "Striker" vehicles. He told me they had driven the vehicles up from Camp Pendleton the night before (Tuesday) on the freeway. Getting off the 405 Freeway going north, they would have passed Wilshire and Veteran where ANSWER had called a rally to protest the attack on Fallujah in Iraq.

I asked him if he was "rolling around Westwood" Tuesday night. He said, "Yeah, and we drove past that anti-war demonstration. We was lost. We're not from L.A. We didn't know where this place (WLA VA) was. We were trying to find it."

"Did you drive around the block twice?" I asked.

"Yeah, we did. We stopped to ask them (the protestors) directions, but they weren't very nice."

*emphasis mine

so there you go.

Yeah, we did. We stopped to ask them (the protestors) directions, but they weren't very nice

I am not sure, are you saying you believe this, or are you laughing out into tears, like me?

Freedom of speech being suppressed

Source: www.abovetopsecret.com...

During the last months three federal judges has convicted in all eight journalists in contempt of court, because the journalists deny to release information about confidential sources. All eight face jailtime.
The journalists has revealed anything from corruption in the buraucratic systems to the reveal of the CIA-agent Valerie Plame and a false suspicion and jailing of a nuclear physicist for espionage on behalf of China.

In the last case, the judge threatens to sentence five journalists for contempt of court, because they deny to reveal their sources.

In addition, The US Dept of Justice demands to get transcripts of phonecalls between reporters in New York Times and their sources during the fall 2001, with the goal to gain access to reveal the confidential sources of the reporters.

-Put this together, and you will se a wide attack on the Freedom of Press, which would terrify us if it happened in Kasakhstan, writes New York Times-writer Nicholas Kristof.

It seems like any indepedent media outlet is going to face a crackdown by the government. In the end we will be left with the government puppets, CNN and the lot. This is not the only purge, there is also this:

US plans to purge disloyal CIA members

Sources say White House has ordered new chief to eliminate officers who were disloyal to Bush.

WASHINGTON -- The White House has ordered the new CIA director, Porter Goss, to purge the agency of officers believed to have been disloyal to President George W. Bush or of leaking damaging information to the media about the conduct of the Iraq war and the hunt for Osama bin Laden, according to knowledgeable sources.

"The agency is being purged on instructions from the White House," said a former senior CIA official who maintains close ties to both the agency and to the White House. "Goss was given instructions ... to get rid of those soft leakers and liberal Democrats. The CIA is looked on by the White House as a hotbed of liberals and people who have been obstructing the president's agenda.

Media, and intelligence, whose next on the purgery list? disloyal country men?

Is there any doubts that US is becoming a full fledged dictatorship by the day?

[edit on 15-11-2004 by Indigo_Child]

There will be no Civil War, however there should be a Revolution. And that is a definite possibility and the government is preparing for it. What do you think the Patriot Act is for? Bush is going to use his Political Capital to build a wall against dissent. He has completed it in the CIA, and media, his purge of leftist and social thinkers are next. He will do away with the E.P.A., more prisons will be built and enforced by Corporations, private prisons. They are all over Ca. now.They are building them across the nation. He has secured his toe hold and the Jackboot is next. [I just figured out the dream I had last night, now it makes sense, back to topic]
John Kerry was there to loose, for as a Skull and Bones he would not launch an inquiry as in the last election gone hay wire. You do not understand the depth of S+B, you do not understand the criminal history of the Bush Dynasty.

www.ctrl.org...
www.bilderberg.org...
www.ctrl.org...'s_Bonesm.htm
www.google.com...
www.freedomdomain.com...


www.whatreallyhappened.com...
www.whatreallyhappened.com...

Do not believe me. Do your research if you are not sure what road we are going down. It is loaded with Paper Clips in the North Woods.Follow the Paper Clip Road. Todo this ain't Kansas

Americans need to understand the difference between patriotism and nationalism. A patriot loves his land and his people. A nationalist loves his government. The patriot voluntarily does what is necessary to protect his land and his people. A nationalist blindly obeys his government.
-- Charley Reese

=========================================

The Wehrmacht Oath of Loyalty to Adolf Hitler, 2 August 1934

"I swear by God this sacred oath that I shall render unconditional obedience to Adolf Hitler, the F�hrer of the German Reich, supreme commander of the armed forces, and that I shall at all times be prepared, as a brave soldier, to give my life for this oath."

The Oath of Every American
Sailor, Soldier, Airman, Marine, Law Enforcement Officer & Public Official

"I, [state your name], do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which I am about to enter. So help me God."

=====================================================
�We live in the midst of alarms; anxiety beclouds the future; we expect some new disaster with each newspaper we read.� � Abraham Lincoln
�This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or exercise their revolutionary right to overthrow it.� � Abraham Lincoln
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
"The only sure bulwark of continuing liberty is a government strong enough to protect the interests of the people, and a people strong enough and well enough informed to maintain its soverieign control over its government."
- Franklin Delano Roosevelt (32nd President of the United States
0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000

It does not require a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority keen to set brush fires in people's minds." - Samuel Adams

BTW he still makes good beer also

*********************************************************

No one need think that the world can be ruled without blood.
The civil sword shall and must be red and bloody.
~Andrew Jackson

My favorite President when he moved into the White House he through the doors open and had a Party for everyone in D.C. open house.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^


George Bush has bragged that "as long as we keep
food on their table, gas in their gas tanks and a roof over their heads,
we don�t have to worry about the BUDsters." The arrogant senior Bush
calls the American people BUDsters." It stands for Broke, Useless
and Depressed.
That�s quite a joke coming from the former head of the CIA. After all,
they refer to themselves-with no irony at all-as "Criminals In Action
Stew Webb

=================================================


"The idea gleaming and dancing before ones eyes like a will-of-the-
wisp at last frames itself into a plan. Why should we not form a secret
society with but one object, the furtherance of the British Empire and
the bringing of the whole uncivilised world under British rule, for the
recovery of the United States, for the making the Anglo-Saxon race one
Empire. What a dream, but yet it is probable, it is possible."


- Cecil Rhodes, June 2, 1877
================================================


[edit on 15-11-2004 by Polar Bear]

[edit on 15-11-2004 by Polar Bear]

Honey, with language like that, this thread belongs in RATS.

There simply isn't any assurance coming from WDC that your language will not condemn you, at this point in time.

I'll make that suggestion.

I figure you must be talking to me, Honey, I like that ain't no one called me Honey in a Dog's age.

Polar Bears like Honey also, just ain't no Bee's up here. Sting Me

Originally posted by Emily_Cragg
Honey, with language like that, this thread belongs in RATS.

There simply isn't any assurance coming from WDC that your language will not condemn you, at this point in time.

I'll make that suggestion.

Emily Cragg, what are you talking about?

Originally posted by quango
indigo child -

here's the answer to the Tanks at the protest, right from the link to Alex's site.

From INDYMEDIA: I talked to one Marine with one of the "Striker" vehicles. He told me they had driven the vehicles up from Camp Pendleton the night before (Tuesday) on the freeway. Getting off the 405 Freeway going north, they would have passed Wilshire and Veteran where ANSWER had called a rally to protest the attack on Fallujah in Iraq.

I asked him if he was "rolling around Westwood" Tuesday night. He said, "Yeah, and we drove past that anti-war demonstration. We was lost. We're not from L.A. We didn't know where this place (WLA VA) was. We were trying to find it."

"Did you drive around the block twice?" I asked.

"Yeah, we did. We stopped to ask them (the protestors) directions, but they weren't very nice."

*emphasis mine

so there you go.

Sorry about the long quote...back in the 80's we were traveling to a green flag exercise with the Air Force and drove up from Ft. Bliss. Our cmdr did exactly the same thing, got us lost on the way to Andrews AFB. Our convoy ended up on the strip in Vegas, rifles and all. Musta took a lot of people aback to see 20-30 Hemitts and trucks with armed soldiers riding through town. We had a good laugh at the screw up and eventually found our way to the base.

This looks exactly like what happened in the video. But if you hate our military then you're first reaction is to think something more sinister. Perhaps if one of those STUPID protestors had just asked what was going on eh?

Oh and technically, those were Bradely fighting vehicles not tanks. They are troop carriers. Tanks really wouldn�t be allowed on the road, as they could cause damage.